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Does anyone here, who is a developer, actually think this game is not a scam or will succeed?

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  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,265
    SEANMCAD said:
    MaxBacon said:
    For me the failure or not due those reasons is rather silly.

    What and they even admitted this on the Kotatu articles when mistakes are made and management fails; they cost money and time, the big example is Star Marine. As time is money on development, they did counter it.

    What usually takes companies and projects down, is or a strict budget / deadlines that they don't have much margin to deal with. That is not the case on Star Citizen, both on funding and deadlines where it depends on the pressure from the backers that are overall okay with it; as on their side with continuing to deliver updates.

    So on SC, the margin that you will not have as an Indie, or with publishers that won't really give you more money or more time (usually leads to rushed releases as we all know), is less of a problem here.
    seems lagit.

    one thing I have noticed about game forum site posters is many of them are unhealthy addicted to timelines and promises. its like a simulator game for them 'find a promise that you can call broken'

    Sounds too much like politics ;)

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 2,629
    Most ambitious game ever attempet made by the most ambitious albeit crazy Dev Mr. Roberts!

    Ofc it's going to be done, and it will be a hallmark of the video-game history putting to shame the big publishers!

    No doubt about that.
  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Somehow, I don't think any company taking in more than $130 mil for a SPG/co-op game should be putting out or even announcing plans to put out a "minimally viable product".

    $130 mil should fund a heck of a lot more than that.

    All releasing a minimally viable product does is prevent your company from being sued for non-delivery/breach of contract.

    But it is practically never a "good" product.

    That is my biggest problem with SC, and why I will not fork over 10 cents until there is a coherent game released and it is good.


  • ArawulfArawulf Guest WriterMember UncommonPosts: 597
    My stance on SC is best illustrated by popcorn.gif

    I'm going to wait and see what happens.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Burntvet said:
    Somehow, I don't think any company taking in more than $130 mil for a SPG/co-op game should be putting out or even announcing plans to put out a "minimally viable product".

    $130 mil should fund a heck of a lot more than that.

    All releasing a minimally viable product does is prevent your company from being sued for non-delivery/breach of contract.

    But it is practically never a "good" product.

    That is my biggest problem with SC, and why I will not fork over 10 cents until there is a coherent game released and it is good.



    Actually, an MVP is a common and this type of sentiment is exactly the type of reason that open development can't/shouldn't happen. It's a misunderstanding of the term based on the literal definition of it's parts. People see "Minimum" and they assume that it means least. What they don't understand is that Minimum could be that the game launches a satellite into orbit for each player. If THAT particular requirement is one that is a deal-breaker, then it should be included in your MVP. The MVP is simply a specification of what the product managers believe that the product must do, at a minimum, in order to ship it to the customer. The biggest mistake that CIG made was saying that without indicating what the fuck their MVP actually even looks like. Without that definition what do they expect? Either way, MVP is neither a good nor bad thing because you don't know what it actually represents. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • DishwasherSafeDishwasherSafe Member UncommonPosts: 39
    This Project is lead by a dreamer. A dreamer that once before proclaimed he can make the BDSSE and he created a company to do it and he scope crept like a boss and he created movie captures like a Hollywood director and he failed, lost his company and became a Hollywood director and he failed again.

    This same person is now doing the exact same things once more and the outcome is very likely going to be the same.

    Is it a scam? No, i am sure, even with his limited knowledge of space and simulations he wanted to make the BDSSE this time. However, once money became an issue the focus moved towards prolonging the inevitable as long as possible and then exit with as much money as possible.

    If we are true to ourselves, forget all the feelings, the money we threw at him, the dreams then deep inside we all know how this story is going to end.

    [Citation Needed]

    "Play Style Matters" 
    - Warren Spector ( System Shock, Deus Ex ) 
  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 1,270
    I don't think It's a scam It just tries to be something that's hard to make.
    It's like a little boy on the beach, he envision him building this massive sand castle, but in the end when reality sinks in that sand castle is not like that little boy envisioned it, It's broken, crocked and not that great, it has many faults, he tries to fix it but It's still nowhere near what he wanted it to be.

    This is Chris Roberts, hes that little boy at the beach.
  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,013
    edited November 2016
    This Project is lead by a dreamer. A dreamer that once before proclaimed he can make the BDSSE and he created a company to do it and he scope crept like a boss and he created movie captures like a Hollywood director and he failed, lost his company and became a Hollywood director and he failed again.

    This same person is now doing the exact same things once more and the outcome is very likely going to be the same.

    Is it a scam? No, i am sure, even with his limited knowledge of space and simulations he wanted to make the BDSSE this time. However, once money became an issue the focus moved towards prolonging the inevitable as long as possible and then exit with as much money as possible.

    If we are true to ourselves, forget all the feelings, the money we threw at him, the dreams then deep inside we all know how this story is going to end.

    [Citation Needed]


    Nothing wrong with being a dreamer - look at other industries (Tesla Automobiles, etc). Dreaming  is important (as is thinking outside of the box) but when dreaming supersedes reality, then you have issues. This is what is going on here. No one is telling Chris to back off or rethink because of reality.  Dreamers need to have discipline or else it all goes down the tubes.

    Pie in the sky is just that but you can't eat it.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,243
    edited November 2016
    Maurgrim said:
    This is Chris Roberts, hes that little boy at the beach.

    He is more the little boy at the beach, that after some time of building the castle saw that the base of it wouldn't by no way support the castle he wanted to build.

    So then the little boy decided to remake the base of the castle, but by the time the base was done, the other boys castles were already finished.

    Some time after the little boy finally finished his castle, a wave came... And his castle was the one that stood. 

    #SandCastles
  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    MaxBacon said:
    Maurgrim said:
    This is Chris Roberts, hes that little boy at the beach.

    He is more the little boy at the beach, that after some time of building the castle saw that the base of it wouldn't by no way support the castle he wanted to build.

    So then the little boy decided to remake the base of the castle, but by the time the base was done, the other boys castles were already finished.

    Some time after the little boy finally finished his castle, a wave came... And his castle was the one that stood. 

    #SandCastles
    LOL,

    More like, the little boy built some of the castle, then didnt like it so he "refactored" it 12 times.  When he was finally happy with that part he built another, but this new part did not fit with the original part because it had been through so many changes so he had to "refactor" that one a few times.  This process continued for many years until eventually the castle was "refactored" so many times that no one recognized what it was.
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,243
    edited November 2016
    Talonsin said:
    More like, the little boy built some of the castle, then didnt like it so he "refactored" it 12 times.  When he was finally happy with that part he built another, but this new part did not fit with the original part because it had been through so many changes so he had to "refactor" that one a few times.  This process continued for many years until eventually the castle was "refactored" so many times that no one recognized what it was.
    We will see which castle story (lol pun) will it turn out to be in due time. ;)

    Would the little boy ruin the castle by refactoring parts or if? Or would it make the castle look even better? Stay tuned for the next episode of #SandCastles
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    Lienhart said:
    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/06/star-citizen-fidelity-of-failure/

    I am very curious as to how the hell this game still has followers. I was excited at one point...until it became very obvious that there were some massive development issues. Then Google showed me this post and BAM everything (sadly) made a ton of sense.
    You're citing one of the worst game developers in history, and a pathological liar, as your source.  Derek Smart is notorious for both making terrible games and lying out his ass.  Whenever I read anything he writes I immediately assume it's garbage until I get the information verified by a reputable source.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Saxx0n said:
    I am a developer PR/Brand Manager and I do not think it is a scam and I believe it will succeed and set a new bar for the gaming industry. This title and company will go down in the books as the strongest foundation to further game development using crowd funding methods in the future.

    I put my money where my mouth is and have chosen to not "buy ships" but, support CIG to the tune of 650.00
    Developer, ey?



    [Citation Needed]

    You realize that BitBox could be BitBox as in Life is Feudal developer, right? In which case, I'd say developer or not he's got some decent credibility on the subject. If not, the other BitBox Ltd's that I find are like less than 10 employees. So, yeah, it's not outside the realm of possibility. Take it from someone who was once a Game Designer/Developer/Business Development Manager. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,243
    edited November 2016
    Oh yeah it's one of the Life is Feudal dev team I just noticed; I think they are bigger now because of a recent publisher investment.

    Waiting for their MMO release here.  =)
  • RaquisRaquis Member RarePosts: 1,018
    the game will release but i think it will not be as good as everyone expects as usual,so glad i never funded it.
    i will investigate before i buy and you will have to pay a subscription fee for your insurance of your ship,lol.
    i cant stand games with subs.they are not worth it!
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,243
    Raquis said:
    i will investigate before i buy and you will have to pay a subscription fee for your insurance of your ship,lol.
    I'm afraid I have to tell you your investigation didn't pay off. Insurance is a maintenance fee for your ship/s based on the game currency.
  • VorpalChicken28VorpalChicken28 Member UncommonPosts: 348
    SC isn't a scam, if pretty obvious they are trying to make a game, the only issue's are probably the scope of the project, the fact they persisted in using Cryengine and Chris Roberts.

    The scope they are choosing to produce is massive, possibly to massive for Cryengine, when they only had a small budget Cryengine was a good idea, but the mistake they've made is not writing a bespoke system when they had enough cash.

    Chris Roberts is also an issue, he's a great, maybe brilliant idea's man, but he a piss poor manager, his track record is open for all to see, just read up on the mess that was Freelancer and what had to be done once they shuffled him away from the project.

    Another issue, that personal to me, is what he's apparently done with the money, which is to open multiple differant companies and create a mini game empire, there was never a need for this, heck most companies that use crowd funding do not do what Chris Roberts did, personally I think if there is any accusation of money misuse it will come from this, but this is just my personal belief developed from watching this whole drama unfold, personally look at what David Braben has done with Elite Dangerous, you won't find multple companies there, just one studio building what will eventually be a massive game in both scope and structure. 
    “Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” 
    ― Terry PratchettMaking Money
  • Zarkin86Zarkin86 Member UncommonPosts: 122
    Lienhart said:
    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/06/star-citizen-fidelity-of-failure/

    I am very curious as to how the hell this game still has followers. I was excited at one point...until it became very obvious that there were some massive development issues. Then Google showed me this post and BAM everything (sadly) made a ton of sense.

    this is the worst troll attempt i've ever seen.
  • DishwasherSafeDishwasherSafe Member UncommonPosts: 39
    CrazKanuk said:
    Burntvet said:
    Somehow, I don't think any company taking in more than $130 mil for a SPG/co-op game should be putting out or even announcing plans to put out a "minimally viable product".

    $130 mil should fund a heck of a lot more than that.

    All releasing a minimally viable product does is prevent your company from being sued for non-delivery/breach of contract.

    But it is practically never a "good" product.

    That is my biggest problem with SC, and why I will not fork over 10 cents until there is a coherent game released and it is good.



    Actually, an MVP is a common and this type of sentiment is exactly the type of reason that open development can't/shouldn't happen. It's a misunderstanding of the term based on the literal definition of it's parts. People see "Minimum" and they assume that it means least. What they don't understand is that Minimum could be that the game launches a satellite into orbit for each player. If THAT particular requirement is one that is a deal-breaker, then it should be included in your MVP. The MVP is simply a specification of what the product managers believe that the product must do, at a minimum, in order to ship it to the customer. The biggest mistake that CIG made was saying that without indicating what the fuck their MVP actually even looks like. Without that definition what do they expect? Either way, MVP is neither a good nor bad thing because you don't know what it actually represents. 
    The problem is that they don't know. They don't know what they do in a month as has been demonstrated by the failure to deliver a SQ42 mission Demo after Chris Roberts pounded his proud chest in front on the Press proclaiming there will be SQ42 at CitizenCon and it will be glorious.

    Demonstrated yet again after CitizenCon when they released a Marketing video how close they have come to finishing the SQ42 Demo yet now after another month and another major event it still has not surfaced.

    MVP = Whatever is working when shit hits the fan.

    [Citation Needed]
    "Play Style Matters" 
    - Warren Spector ( System Shock, Deus Ex ) 
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,243
    edited November 2016
    Demonstrated yet again after CitizenCon when they released a Marketing video how close they have come to finishing the SQ42 Demo yet now after another month and another major event it still has not surfaced.
    Nope, Erin Roberts after Citizencon has claimed that they possibly wanted the demo out BEFORE the end of the year; and it wasn't even a guarantee.

    It's not that demo that is close because the decision was to put that demo close to a final quality level in polish and mechanic. Hence why also from Erin Roberts there is the possibility the demo will include FPS (AI), something that was not there for the demo worked for Citizencon.


    Meaning, the focus is to bring to a final quality the first Chapter of SQ42 instead; and that by Erin's words is when we will see the demo.
  • DishwasherSafeDishwasherSafe Member UncommonPosts: 39
    CrazKanuk said:
    Saxx0n said:
    I am a developer PR/Brand Manager and I do not think it is a scam and I believe it will succeed and set a new bar for the gaming industry. This title and company will go down in the books as the strongest foundation to further game development using crowd funding methods in the future.

    I put my money where my mouth is and have chosen to not "buy ships" but, support CIG to the tune of 650.00
    Developer, ey?



    [Citation Needed]

    You realize that BitBox could be BitBox as in Life is Feudal developer, right? In which case, I'd say developer or not he's got some decent credibility on the subject. If not, the other BitBox Ltd's that I find are like less than 10 employees. So, yeah, it's not outside the realm of possibility. Take it from someone who was once a Game Designer/Developer/Business Development Manager. 
    I have been a Lead C++ Developer for one of the biggest game companies for 18 years. My code is in at least a couple of hundred games that use the engines i worked on. I can tell you with 100% certainty that PR/Brand Managers know as much about game development as penguins know about flying.

    Are you really that insecure about StarCitizen that you felt the need to defend this guy?

    [Citation Needed]
    "Play Style Matters" 
    - Warren Spector ( System Shock, Deus Ex ) 
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,243
    edited November 2016
    Are you really that insecure about StarCitizen that you felt the need to defend this guy?
    LOL

    Are you really that insecure that Star Citizen might succeed that you felt the need to attack that guy?

    Common now!
  • DishwasherSafeDishwasherSafe Member UncommonPosts: 39
    edited November 2016
    MaxBacon said:
    Demonstrated yet again after CitizenCon when they released a Marketing video how close they have come to finishing the SQ42 Demo yet now after another month and another major event it still has not surfaced.
    Nope, Erin Roberts after Citizencon has claimed that they possibly wanted the demo out BEFORE the end of the year; and it wasn't even a guarantee.[Citation Needed]

    It's not that demo that is close [Citation Needed] because the decision was to put that demo close to a final quality level in polish and mechanic [Citation Needed]. Hence why also from Erin Roberts there is the possibility the demo will include FPS (AI) [Citation Needed], something that was not there for the demo worked for Citizencon. [Citation Needed]

    As stated [Citation Needed], the focus is to bring to a final quality the first Chapter of SQ42 [Citation Needed] instead.
    It's interesting how there is always something new and exciting being added and that is the reason why something get's delayed even though it was so close and almost finished a few days ago when there was a ship sale.

    I find your post very amusing. You are a very cute little piggie.

    [Citation Needed]
    "Play Style Matters" 
    - Warren Spector ( System Shock, Deus Ex ) 
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,243
    edited November 2016
    It's interesting how there is always something new and exciting being added and that is the reason why something get's delayed even though it was so close and almost finished a few days ago when there was a ship sale.

    I find your post very amusing. You are a very cute little piggie.
    Well it may be because when they show something WIP that is un-finished, people like you will shame them like what they shown was something that wasn't one internal build that isn't yet ready even to reach the Alpha, alpha not any released, feature complete and polished state. (like your comment on Star Marine)

    For such one amazing experienced game developer you claim to be, it feels pretty weakly mirrored on an account that seems created to troll @Erillion
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    2 things you can count on.

    1) Delays due to reasons
    2) No delays on the cash shop and the next big ship sale
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