i think soon RPG and FPS will be merged , like the london hell gate ... and guildwars already have FPS kind of fast action ... its just a metter of time to have huge FPS view MMOs . with 3rd person view as well , crafting and choping trees .. you name it , all in one.
Sigh, another kid who wants instant gratification. No wonder SOE dumbed down SWG. And for the record, it should take a loooong time to get the best gear and hell yes it should = kicking your ass.
Well, as a 31 year old "kid", I can honestly say that don't believe that someone should be reward simply for playing a game longer than another player. Note: just because you play a game for a long amount of time doesn't mean that you're going to get better or that you're better than a naturally talented player that has put in less time. Also, in a good game, there is no "best" gear. Gear would have pluses and minuses that support a given play style. Some weapons, for instance, would do a lot of damage but be slow while other weapons would be fast and do very little. Weapons could also do different kinds of damage that would require different kinds of armour. It's ridiculous to think that a sword, even a magical one, would make your character more able to strike another character. I don't expect you to understand this since, by your own admission, you're a power gamer.
Based on your logic, whats the point in playing an MMO for longer than a few months ? There's no reason to strive for epic gear if some punk kid with better reflexes can still win.
I still play Counter-Strike, Red Alert 2, Rainbow Six 3, Starcraft, Age of Mythology, Street Fighter 2, Gran Turismo 3, even chess, and all those games have been out for years (centuries in the case of chess). Maybe the idea would be to become a better PLAYER rather than just grinding your character up to uberness. Just like everyone else...... God forbid that I want an actual GAME to play rather than a grinding treadmill to walk on.
I bet WoW wouldnt be the success it is if it was a FPS for that very reason. People stick around in games like WoW long after they reach the level cap because getting better gear means improving their toon. It also means they've achieved something special that others will jealously strive to match. If Blizzard pulled a SOE and revamped WoW to a FPS, the population would drop from 6 million to 500k or less overnight (see SWG)
Wow would be more of a 3rd person fighting game than a FPS. Not that there aren't elements that couldn't be done in an FPS manner. To be honest, I think the game would be EVEN MORE popular because it would be both more accessable to new players and challenging at all levels of the game. As for the "jealousy" and "something special", I think it's far more special to be a better player than a farmer with rare stuff.
I hope to hell players like you are the minority or better yet you'll outgrow FPS. MMO's are meant for long-term play, something a FPS negates.
Like I said before, I still play alot of old FPS, RTS and fighting games that have been around for years. I'm not the only person still playing these games. People played Half-Life (and it's variants) for THE BETTER PART OF A DECADE!! As I've gotten older, I've been more attracted to tactical FPS games like Rainbow Six 3, Ghost Recon, SWAT 4, and America's Army. I still love playing CTF games of Tribes: Vengance and UT2004. I also love RTS and turn based strategy games. modern MMOs could learn something from other genres when it comes to replayablity. There is usually no reason to keep playing a modern MMO after you've reached the level cap. The epic gear is just something to dangle in front of you in order to keep you doing the same boring shit over and over again.
Do you play online fps? Theres alot of stratagy involved.
The fighting aspect of rpgs just doesn't cut it for me. Its more about your gear and lvl than skill. Most ppl with any sense can work if they should root/ kite etc. Ive been playing mmorpgs since eq and im waiting for vg but for real combat im looking at huxley. The only time combat is hard in a rpg is when you don't have the good gear/ lvl or you're playing in a raid with poor organization.
My view with mmorpg combat is that it's not you winning the fight, it's time. If you have time on your side you will win.
Originally posted by thomas.hart Do you play online fps? Theres alot of stratagy involved. The fighting aspect of rpgs just doesn't cut it for me. Its more about your gear and lvl than skill. Most ppl with any sense can work if they should root/ kite etc. Ive been playing mmorpgs since eq and im waiting for vg but for real combat im looking at huxley. The only time combat is hard in a rpg is when you don't have the good gear/ lvl or you're playing in a raid with poor organization. My view with mmorpg combat is that it's not you winning the fight, it's time. If you have time on your side you will win. mmorpg are for exploring / character advancement mmofps are for combat
did you try guildwars ?
its not a point and shot game , but the action of a fps is there , and the complex skill combination and team work is there ..
and I have to say that I probably like the fps more, (Americas Army, free army recruiting game, very very good) but it doesn't have the same addictiveness or attachment that you get if you play and RPG, on RPGs you can make friends and see them online and do stuff together, on an fps you occassionally see the same people on different servers, but even then you don't really talk to them or say anything. I think that it's the community which makes me stay on the rpg more, but the fun that makes me like the fps.
I played counterstrike over LAN once. Sucked. Why? Because I had never played it before, and everybody else had. I was capable of hitting things. I could aim. But I couldn't figure out how to lay down any good cover fire, or when to hold my ground. And when I was finally about ready to shoot somebody (again) a lot of smoke appeared and I couldn't figure out where I was until I got deader than ever.
However. I like the FPS genre. The essential aspect of MMORPG to me is RPG. If you simply changed the combat style in one of today's games, you'd have a horrible experience, bullets and grenades (or alternatively arrows and fireballs ftw...) flying everywhere.
But if you take a world-setting where everything needs to be drawn from somewhere or created from something, if you take a world-setting where you can be a character -- as opposed to just being class/race and say you "roleplay a <class>" and "roleplaying a <class> means <doing x>", x being the sole focus of that "character's" existence -- and you apply to it the FPS combat solution instead of the RPG combat solution, then you have an MMOFPS I like.
Basically, it is an MMORPG in everything but combat. I don't see combat or stats as the defining factor of an RPG. I see roles as the critical element. The deeper the role, the better. A mere fighter / mage / healer ... is shallow.
You could implement the MMORPG skill progression / level progression system too. Easily. It just takes a little more freedom of thought than the bare minimum.
Physical stats
Strength - aids acceleration to top speed, top speed, jump distance/height, recoil resistance, melee damage (slight)...
Dexterity - aids acceleration, top speed, default accuracy (before recoil effects are applied)
Endurance - improves your recovery time upon getting hurt, reduces penalties from injuries, improves your ability to run for extended periods of time
All the physical stats (there could be more) are allowed to vary only slightly, and it will be difficult to keep them all in the top range.
Aptitudes (Subdivisions of physical stats, each at 80% - 120%, averaging at 100% in each field)
Strength - Static: Affects the benefits of strength upon recoil resistance
The aptitudes will be modified depending on what skills / aspects you practice, but increase in one subdivision of dexterity will cause a slight reduction in the other fields to even it out. You increase your skill by training dexterity, and if you want to specialize in one field, you train dexterity with an aptitude, letting the other fields suffer just a little.
Skills
Firearms (general)
Firearms (light)
Firearms (heavy)
Firearms (specific firearm)
Melee (light)
Melee (heavy)
Melee (defensive)
Melee (offensive)
Unarmed (defensive)
Unarmed (offensive)
Wrestling
Pinning
Escaping
Your ability to fire a given firearm would be determined by your experience with firearms in general (little power, high flexibility), firearms of a specific kind (stronger benefit of your time), and your specialized training with the given weapon. Also, your dexterity would affect this slightly (aim).
How accuracy is resolved: The better your aim, the quicker your ingame aim adjusts to mouse movement. If your aim is not steady (hasn't been held still for long enough), the shot will be inaccurate - but doesn't have to miss. (You could even succeed at a headshot still). The amount of time left affects the degree of inaccuracy, meaning that the better your skills are, the less inaccuracy will occur - and you will be able to fire quite accurately while moving your aim.
The other skills would also be measured in cross references of various skills and stats/aptitudes. And then you can pick weapons with low recoil if it troubles you...
Oh, and if you have training with firearms, you'll reload quicker. And especially if it is that specific firearm with which you're so familiar. (Although I've no idea how this works in real life)
The future: Adellion Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants) Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens) Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
Proffessional, intelligent gamers understand the consept of monthly fees and don't complain about a few bucks a month for something awesome!
I know what you are saying, and I'm not sure I disagree with you exactly, but I don't think you can stereotype people who don't want to pay subscription fees - especially when it comes to the FPS genre.
I know quite a few professional people, who earn a lot of money, who refuse to pay much for their gaming experiences at all, and they spend hours on their games. There is a core of the FPS market that thinks everything should be free like Counter Strike and if Counter Strike is 'free' why should anything else be paid for?
I would just want to see MMORPG with SKILL! Other than time + items + levels. I am starting to hate that.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Comments
I hope that there continue to be both. If there were only RPGs then I'd be standing in a store with something like this happening every 15 minutes.
Pwner: "Duel Me!"
Me: "No"
Pwner: "Duel ME!!"
Me: "No"
Pwner: "Duel ME NOWWWW!!!"
Me: "No"
Pwner: "Awww come on duel me!"
Me: "No"
Pwner: "What are you chicken?"
Me: "No"
Pwner: "Duel Me then!"
Me: No"
Pwner: "Man this game is so lame!"
If there are both FPSs and RPGs then they can pwn in their world and I can play in mine and they don't have to whine that I won't duel them.
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/
actually fps requires FAST thinking..
-Zheritel-
http://www.usersigs.com/site/data/thumbnails/6/Stargate SG1 Fan.jpg
admriker444 wrote:
Sigh, another kid who wants instant gratification. No wonder SOE dumbed down SWG. And for the record, it should take a loooong time to get the best gear and hell yes it should = kicking your ass.
Well, as a 31 year old "kid", I can honestly say that don't believe that someone should be reward simply for playing a game longer than another player. Note: just because you play a game for a long amount of time doesn't mean that you're going to get better or that you're better than a naturally talented player that has put in less time. Also, in a good game, there is no "best" gear. Gear would have pluses and minuses that support a given play style. Some weapons, for instance, would do a lot of damage but be slow while other weapons would be fast and do very little. Weapons could also do different kinds of damage that would require different kinds of armour. It's ridiculous to think that a sword, even a magical one, would make your character more able to strike another character. I don't expect you to understand this since, by your own admission, you're a power gamer.
Based on your logic, whats the point in playing an MMO for longer than a few months ? There's no reason to strive for epic gear if some punk kid with better reflexes can still win.
I still play Counter-Strike, Red Alert 2, Rainbow Six 3, Starcraft, Age of Mythology, Street Fighter 2, Gran Turismo 3, even chess, and all those games have been out for years (centuries in the case of chess). Maybe the idea would be to become a better PLAYER rather than just grinding your character up to uberness. Just like everyone else......
God forbid that I want an actual GAME to play rather than a grinding treadmill to walk on.
I bet WoW wouldnt be the success it is if it was a FPS for that very reason. People stick around in games like WoW long after they reach the level cap because getting better gear means improving their toon. It also means they've achieved something special that others will jealously strive to match. If Blizzard pulled a SOE and revamped WoW to a FPS, the population would drop from 6 million to 500k or less overnight (see SWG)
Wow would be more of a 3rd person fighting game than a FPS. Not that there aren't elements that couldn't be done in an FPS manner. To be honest, I think the game would be EVEN MORE popular because it would be both more accessable to new players and challenging at all levels of the game. As for the "jealousy" and "something special", I think it's far more special to be a better player than a farmer with rare stuff.
I hope to hell players like you are the minority or better yet you'll outgrow FPS. MMO's are meant for long-term play, something a FPS negates.
Like I said before, I still play alot of old FPS, RTS and fighting games that have been around for years. I'm not the only person still playing these games. People played Half-Life (and it's variants) for THE BETTER PART OF A DECADE!! As I've gotten older, I've been more attracted to tactical FPS games like Rainbow Six 3, Ghost Recon, SWAT 4, and America's Army. I still love playing CTF games of Tribes: Vengance and UT2004. I also love RTS and turn based strategy games. modern MMOs could learn something from other genres when it comes to replayablity. There is usually no reason to keep playing a modern MMO after you've reached the level cap. The epic gear is just something to dangle in front of you in order to keep you doing the same boring shit over and over again.
Do you play online fps? Theres alot of stratagy involved.
The fighting aspect of rpgs just doesn't cut it for me. Its more about your gear and lvl than skill. Most ppl with any sense can work if they should root/ kite etc. Ive been playing mmorpgs since eq and im waiting for vg but for real combat im looking at huxley. The only time combat is hard in a rpg is when you don't have the good gear/ lvl or you're playing in a raid with poor organization.
My view with mmorpg combat is that it's not you winning the fight, it's time. If you have time on your side you will win.
mmorpg are for exploring / character advancement
mmofps are for combat
did you try guildwars ?
its not a point and shot game , but the action of a fps is there , and the complex skill combination and team work is there ..
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/
and I have to say that I probably like the fps more, (Americas Army, free army recruiting game, very very good) but it doesn't have the same addictiveness or attachment that you get if you play and RPG, on RPGs you can make friends and see them online and do stuff together, on an fps you occassionally see the same people on different servers, but even then you don't really talk to them or say anything. I think that it's the community which makes me stay on the rpg more, but the fun that makes me like the fps.
So as indesicive as I am, I picked both
I played counterstrike over LAN once. Sucked. Why? Because I had never played it before, and everybody else had. I was capable of hitting things. I could aim. But I couldn't figure out how to lay down any good cover fire, or when to hold my ground. And when I was finally about ready to shoot somebody (again) a lot of smoke appeared and I couldn't figure out where I was until I got deader than ever.
However. I like the FPS genre. The essential aspect of MMORPG to me is RPG. If you simply changed the combat style in one of today's games, you'd have a horrible experience, bullets and grenades (or alternatively arrows and fireballs ftw...) flying everywhere.
But if you take a world-setting where everything needs to be drawn from somewhere or created from something, if you take a world-setting where you can be a character -- as opposed to just being class/race and say you "roleplay a <class>" and "roleplaying a <class> means <doing x>", x being the sole focus of that "character's" existence -- and you apply to it the FPS combat solution instead of the RPG combat solution, then you have an MMOFPS I like.
Basically, it is an MMORPG in everything but combat. I don't see combat or stats as the defining factor of an RPG. I see roles as the critical element. The deeper the role, the better. A mere fighter / mage / healer ... is shallow.
You could implement the MMORPG skill progression / level progression system too. Easily. It just takes a little more freedom of thought than the bare minimum.
All the physical stats (there could be more) are allowed to vary only slightly, and it will be difficult to keep them all in the top range.
The aptitudes will be modified depending on what skills / aspects you practice, but increase in one subdivision of dexterity will cause a slight reduction in the other fields to even it out. You increase your skill by training dexterity, and if you want to specialize in one field, you train dexterity with an aptitude, letting the other fields suffer just a little.
Your ability to fire a given firearm would be determined by your experience with firearms in general (little power, high flexibility), firearms of a specific kind (stronger benefit of your time), and your specialized training with the given weapon. Also, your dexterity would affect this slightly (aim).
How accuracy is resolved: The better your aim, the quicker your ingame aim adjusts to mouse movement. If your aim is not steady (hasn't been held still for long enough), the shot will be inaccurate - but doesn't have to miss. (You could even succeed at a headshot still). The amount of time left affects the degree of inaccuracy, meaning that the better your skills are, the less inaccuracy will occur - and you will be able to fire quite accurately while moving your aim.
The other skills would also be measured in cross references of various skills and stats/aptitudes. And then you can pick weapons with low recoil if it troubles you...
Oh, and if you have training with firearms, you'll reload quicker. And especially if it is that specific firearm with which you're so familiar. (Although I've no idea how this works in real life)
The future: Adellion
Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually
Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants)
Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens)
Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
I know what you are saying, and I'm not sure I disagree with you exactly, but I don't think you can stereotype people who don't want to pay subscription fees - especially when it comes to the FPS genre.
I know quite a few professional people, who earn a lot of money, who refuse to pay much for their gaming experiences at all, and they spend hours on their games. There is a core of the FPS market that thinks everything should be free like Counter Strike and if Counter Strike is 'free' why should anything else be paid for?
I'm just saying that if you don't want to pay for it, i guess you don't really want to play it...
A man will pay 2$ for a 1$ item he really wants.
A woman will pay 1$ for a 2$ item she doesn't really want.
(yes that was a joke)
-Zheritel-
http://www.usersigs.com/site/data/thumbnails/6/Stargate SG1 Fan.jpg
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
yes! exactly!
therefore mmofps is brilliant!
-Zheritel-
http://www.usersigs.com/site/data/thumbnails/6/Stargate SG1 Fan.jpg