Pre CP160 a characters is boosted; as you progress this boost diminishes. Your progress is most obvious from level 1 to level 50 but after this you will unlock champion points and character growth will continue.
Your primary progress in ESO however is through developing skills. By CP160 you should have a decent set of skills developed but your flexibility will continue to grow - as will your "power" via increased champion points.
And there is no "end zone" that people graduate to. Never was even before the patch. You might have been playing in a zone at level 20 and some characters on their second faction storyline playing at CP 60 say along with some characters at CP140 on their third storyline. You never saw those other characters. They were in the same zone but in different phases. And the patch has removed that. Now you could be playing with characters of very different levels.
And CP160 is not the maximum either for characters.
I don't think you are correct...you are not scaled while leveling the NPC scale to your level.
Yes he is correct. With One Tamriel every mob you fight everywhere in the game is now the same CP160 level. You are the one who gets scaled if you're under CP160.
This is the way things already worked since launch in Cyrodiil (all the PVE mobs there were max level) and with all the zones that are part of the DLC content as well as all dungeons you joined through the groupfinder. It's been that way in those places for more than a year.
All that One Tamriel did in this respect was make every zone and instance in the game work exactly the way DLC zones and Cyrodiil have always worked.
No I dont think you are guys are correct. When you went to Cyrodill you were labeled as CP160 now at level 33 you are not. If this was the case from 1-50 you were CP160 gearing would not matter. Better gear impacts your leveling toon, gear still has level requirements if you were stuck at CP 160 changing gear would have no impact.
"As you visit different areas, the battle-leveling system automatically scales and balances your character to the content."
Additionally I was in the test server before they removed the level tag from mobs,,, which they did because it's now redundant since they're all CP160 everywhere.
So it doesn't say anywhere that all content is scaled to CP160 it sounds like you are "scaled to the content" which means if you were in an old level 10 area you scale to that and if you go to a level 40 area you scale to that. Sounds like we were both off a bit.
Every single creature in every zone is CP160. Why are you even arguing against this fact?
Yeah I give up... it's one of those leading a horse to water but not being able to make him drink kind of things
Or you didn't like not having facts to back you up..."scale to the content" is not the same as "scale to CP160" feel free to post info. I already said I was wrong on my first point but apparently so are you...clearly you rather be an asshat then admit you were wrong too. But hey if you have links facts that state we scale to CP I would be glad to see it.
So is this better for you:
High-level players will be able to group with friends who are new to ESO; anyone below Champion 160 will scale so everyone can adventure together.
Really dude? I already said group/dungeon content does. I am talking solo leveling content. Right above your comment is:
Right out of the tutorial you'll have the freedom to go anywhere in Tamriel and play any content, in any order, just like other Elder Scrolls games. Your character will automatically scale and balance to the content
Neither of these say you are scaled to CP160 like you are saying is the case. It's really not that hard to say you were wrong posting "scaled to content" over and over doesn't change the fact you haven't posted anything about scaling to CP160. Again if this is the case I'm all for seeing where it says it.
Well at this point all I can really say is do your own research elsewhere.
Have fun
See to help you out we were looking for something like this about leveling. Notice how they specifically say "scale to CP160 here"
This wasn't good for the game or for the RPG genre. What is the POINT in leveling and working hard when you can kill everything as soon as you start the game? So you can... kill everything? But.. you could already do that...
People are stupid these days....
Yeah the progression is not obvious enough for some to get 'cause it's all about numbers and labels right?
You don't even understand what I'm saying...
No you don't understand that progression in level-gated zones is also an illusion. What exactly is the difference when you're level 15 and fighting level 15 mobs and being no level and fighting no level mobs? The difference is a number.
And no, you can't "kill anything as soon as you start the game" because your skills - which is where the real leveling is at in ESO - are shit compared to what they will be after you level them up some. The pack of 10 I kill in 3 seconds with my fully skilled and fully geared character will kill you in 2 seconds instead.
Progression in video games is and always will be gated content. You need to get better to be able to do X or Y. That is progression. A pack of 10 mobs you can't kill in your way IS gated content. A cave with a troll that you can't kill is a gated cave. You need to get better before you can go in that cave, the troll at the entrance is a progression gate. MMOs take it to the extreme and gate whole zones, that hasn't been great.. I agree.
However, no gating means no progression.
The problem with your 10 mobs example is that at no point do you NEED to take on 10 mobs. You're just choosing to do it by aggroing them all or something. You can kill them 1-3 at a time if you want to. I guess progression means speed to you....
Oh, and the difference is that you can't kill the level 30 mobs... gated.. so, progression.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
This wasn't good for the game or for the RPG genre. What is the POINT in leveling and working hard when you can kill everything as soon as you start the game? So you can... kill everything? But.. you could already do that...
People are stupid these days....
Yeah the progression is not obvious enough for some to get 'cause it's all about numbers and labels right?
You don't even understand what I'm saying...
No you don't understand that progression in level-gated zones is also an illusion. What exactly is the difference when you're level 15 and fighting level 15 mobs and being no level and fighting no level mobs? The difference is a number.
And no, you can't "kill anything as soon as you start the game" because your skills - which is where the real leveling is at in ESO - are shit compared to what they will be after you level them up some. The pack of 10 I kill in 3 seconds with my fully skilled and fully geared character will kill you in 2 seconds instead.
Progression in video games is and always will be gated content. You need to get better to be able to do X or Y. That is progression. A pack of 10 mobs you can't kill in your way IS gated content. A cave with a troll that you can't kill is a gated cave. You need to get better before you can go in that cave, the troll at the entrance is a progression gate. MMOs take it to the extreme and gate whole zones, that hasn't been great.. I agree.
However, no gating means no progression.
The problem with your 10 mobs example is that at no point do you NEED to take on 10 mobs. You're just choosing to do it by aggroing them all or something. You can kill them 1-3 at a time if you want to. I guess progression means speed to you....
No actually if you want to do the quests in the public dungeons you do indeed have to be able to handle packs of 10 mobs. I use that as an example because public dungeons (as opposed to delves which are meant for solo or 4-man instanced dungeons which are meant for groups) are mixed content where you can group if there's someone else around or solo it if there isn't. The bosses in there also drop good items for gear sets that are hard to get elsewhere.
It's content that a player with only low level skills and poor gear will pretty well need to group in to access but once you've leveled and geared up enough you can easily solo.
There are many more examples that are not as obvious and all of them revolve around the difference in time to kill things without you taking much damage which is easy for higher level characters than for low levels. The leveling is subtle in ESO but it's there.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
This wasn't good for the game or for the RPG genre. What is the POINT in leveling and working hard when you can kill everything as soon as you start the game? So you can... kill everything? But.. you could already do that...
People are stupid these days....
Yeah the progression is not obvious enough for some to get 'cause it's all about numbers and labels right?
You don't even understand what I'm saying...
No you don't understand that progression in level-gated zones is also an illusion. What exactly is the difference when you're level 15 and fighting level 15 mobs and being no level and fighting no level mobs? The difference is a number.
And no, you can't "kill anything as soon as you start the game" because your skills - which is where the real leveling is at in ESO - are shit compared to what they will be after you level them up some. The pack of 10 I kill in 3 seconds with my fully skilled and fully geared character will kill you in 2 seconds instead.
Progression in video games is and always will be gated content. You need to get better to be able to do X or Y. That is progression. A pack of 10 mobs you can't kill in your way IS gated content. A cave with a troll that you can't kill is a gated cave. You need to get better before you can go in that cave, the troll at the entrance is a progression gate. MMOs take it to the extreme and gate whole zones, that hasn't been great.. I agree.
However, no gating means no progression.
The problem with your 10 mobs example is that at no point do you NEED to take on 10 mobs. You're just choosing to do it by aggroing them all or something. You can kill them 1-3 at a time if you want to. I guess progression means speed to you....
No actually if you want to do the quests in the public dungeons you do indeed have to be able to handle packs of 10 mobs. I use that as an example because public dungeons (as opposed to delves which are meant for solo or 4-man instanced dungeons which are meant for groups) are mixed content where you can group if there's someone else around or solo it if there isn't. The bosses in there also drop good items for gear sets that are hard to get elsewhere.
It's content that a player with only low level skills and poor gear will pretty well need to group in to access but once you've leveled and geared up enough you can easily solo.
There are many more examples that are not as obvious and all of them revolve around the difference in time to kill things without you taking much damage which is easy for higher level characters than for low levels. The leveling is subtle in ESO but it's there.
Now you're just talking about exploiting bad game balance by figuring out how to solo content intended for groups. The scaling is obviously balanced badly if you're able to solo group content and if you're at the maximum end of the scaling and able to do it, then the group content is badly balanced..
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
This wasn't good for the game or for the RPG genre. What is the POINT in leveling and working hard when you can kill everything as soon as you start the game? So you can... kill everything? But.. you could already do that...
People are stupid these days....
Yeah the progression is not obvious enough for some to get 'cause it's all about numbers and labels right?
You don't even understand what I'm saying...
No you don't understand that progression in level-gated zones is also an illusion. What exactly is the difference when you're level 15 and fighting level 15 mobs and being no level and fighting no level mobs? The difference is a number.
And no, you can't "kill anything as soon as you start the game" because your skills - which is where the real leveling is at in ESO - are shit compared to what they will be after you level them up some. The pack of 10 I kill in 3 seconds with my fully skilled and fully geared character will kill you in 2 seconds instead.
Progression in video games is and always will be gated content. You need to get better to be able to do X or Y. That is progression. A pack of 10 mobs you can't kill in your way IS gated content. A cave with a troll that you can't kill is a gated cave. You need to get better before you can go in that cave, the troll at the entrance is a progression gate. MMOs take it to the extreme and gate whole zones, that hasn't been great.. I agree.
However, no gating means no progression.
The problem with your 10 mobs example is that at no point do you NEED to take on 10 mobs. You're just choosing to do it by aggroing them all or something. You can kill them 1-3 at a time if you want to. I guess progression means speed to you....
No actually if you want to do the quests in the public dungeons you do indeed have to be able to handle packs of 10 mobs. I use that as an example because public dungeons (as opposed to delves which are meant for solo or 4-man instanced dungeons which are meant for groups) are mixed content where you can group if there's someone else around or solo it if there isn't. The bosses in there also drop good items for gear sets that are hard to get elsewhere.
It's content that a player with only low level skills and poor gear will pretty well need to group in to access but once you've leveled and geared up enough you can easily solo.
There are many more examples that are not as obvious and all of them revolve around the difference in time to kill things without you taking much damage which is easy for higher level characters than for low levels. The leveling is subtle in ESO but it's there.
Now you're just talking about exploiting bad game balance by figuring out how to solo content intended for groups. The scaling is obviously balanced badly if you're able to solo group content and if you're at the maximum end of the scaling and able to do it, then the group content is badly balanced..
No I'm talking about "they have made progression an illusion" which is utter bullshit.
The point is, you do progress and you can feel it as you do.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Progression in video games is and always will be gated content. You need to get better to be able to do X or Y. That is progression. A pack of 10 mobs you can't kill in your way IS gated content. A cave with a troll that you can't kill is a gated cave. You need to get better before you can go in that cave, the troll at the entrance is a progression gate. MMOs take it to the extreme and gate whole zones, that hasn't been great.. I agree.
However, no gating means no progression.
The problem with your 10 mobs example is that at no point do you NEED to take on 10 mobs. You're just choosing to do it by aggroing them all or something. You can kill them 1-3 at a time if you want to. I guess progression means speed to you....
There are however other ways to gate things then level. You can use achievement, quests, keys, player skill and other ways to unlock content, as example do you only have access to certain content in Guildwars if your region is leading the PvP.
Personally do I think that increasing the difficulty could work just as well as having levels. Unlock specializations with achievements and get better gear or just play really good and you can skip levels altogether. The advantage with that is that playerskill can replace gear and the other way around, if you play good enough you don't have to grind to get to the harder parts and you will reward people for playing well while people that play poorly will have to spend far more time in the game.
I kinda feel that a very small part of the content in any MMO require any skill nowadays and if anything before max level is hard lazy players just outlevel it first and get to max level without getting any kind of challenge. When those people actually hit the endgame they just tire and leave. There is really no point in learning to play before the endgame, you basically level up at the same time by doing the easiest quest and there is no point in bothering to get acceptable gear before you max out either.
All the levels do is forcing us to grind, one can do stuff over your level to get more challenge but that wont be particularly rewarding, usually level that way tend to take longer time so few people bother.
Leveling just ain't fun anymore and they make all the content a few levels below you meaningless and without much rewards if any (and a 3 year old kid can do grey quests). It splits the playerbase as well.
In EQ levels were grindy but they also meant something, and you were always trying to have good gear no matter what level you were because otherwise things would be very hard, and you didn't outlevel a good piece of gear in a few hours. Since they taken that away I just don't see the point of levels at all.
Leveling just ain't fun anymore and they make all the content a few levels below you meaningless and without much rewards if any (and a 3 year old kid can do grey quests). It splits the playerbase as well.
Well that is by far the biggest improvement that One Tamriel has made: there is no "outleveling" content which was easy to do before if you just ran a few group dungeons while questing in a zone.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Leveling just ain't fun anymore and they make all the content a few levels below you meaningless and without much rewards if any (and a 3 year old kid can do grey quests). It splits the playerbase as well.
Well that is by far the biggest improvement that One Tamriel has made: there is no "outleveling" content which was easy to do before if you just ran a few group dungeons while questing in a zone.
Same with GW2 but all the other points go for both of them as well. Levels have lost their meaning by now, time to move on.
Leveling just ain't fun anymore and they make all the content a few levels below you meaningless and without much rewards if any (and a 3 year old kid can do grey quests). It splits the playerbase as well.
Well that is by far the biggest improvement that One Tamriel has made: there is no "outleveling" content which was easy to do before if you just ran a few group dungeons while questing in a zone.
Same with GW2 but all the other points go for both of them as well. Levels have lost their meaning by now, time to move on.
I agree to an extent. The important part to me is progression. I also don't want to be at 100% efficiency when I start. I do want to progress over time and not just because I got the hang of the game.
But levels are not an absolute requirement to give you that feeling. They're just the traditional way to do it but there are better ways. The ESO skill system that works independent of level has always done that and was always the whole point of the progression.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Pre CP160 a characters is boosted; as you progress this boost diminishes. Your progress is most obvious from level 1 to level 50 but after this you will unlock champion points and character growth will continue.
Your primary progress in ESO however is through developing skills. By CP160 you should have a decent set of skills developed but your flexibility will continue to grow - as will your "power" via increased champion points.
And there is no "end zone" that people graduate to. Never was even before the patch. You might have been playing in a zone at level 20 and some characters on their second faction storyline playing at CP 60 say along with some characters at CP140 on their third storyline. You never saw those other characters. They were in the same zone but in different phases. And the patch has removed that. Now you could be playing with characters of very different levels.
And CP160 is not the maximum either for characters.
I don't think you are correct...you are not scaled while leveling the NPC scale to your level.
Yes he is correct. With One Tamriel every mob you fight everywhere in the game is now the same CP160 level. You are the one who gets scaled if you're under CP160.
This is the way things already worked since launch in Cyrodiil (all the PVE mobs there were max level) and with all the zones that are part of the DLC content as well as all dungeons you joined through the groupfinder. It's been that way in those places for more than a year.
All that One Tamriel did in this respect was make every zone and instance in the game work exactly the way DLC zones and Cyrodiil have always worked.
No I dont think you are guys are correct. When you went to Cyrodill you were labeled as CP160 now at level 33 you are not. If this was the case from 1-50 you were CP160 gearing would not matter. Better gear impacts your leveling toon, gear still has level requirements if you were stuck at CP 160 changing gear would have no impact.
"As you visit different areas, the battle-leveling system automatically scales and balances your character to the content."
Additionally I was in the test server before they removed the level tag from mobs,,, which they did because it's now redundant since they're all CP160 everywhere.
So it doesn't say anywhere that all content is scaled to CP160 it sounds like you are "scaled to the content" which means if you were in an old level 10 area you scale to that and if you go to a level 40 area you scale to that. Sounds like we were both off a bit.
Every single creature in every zone is CP160. Why are you even arguing against this fact?
Again his link stated "scaled to the content" it didn't say scale to CP160. There has been no facts given to your opinion or mine...except "scaled to the content".
All zones work like the DLC zones. The DLC zones contain CP160 critters. Hence all zones now contain CP160 critters. All content is CP160 so players being " scaled to the content " is valid. Everywhere.
Effectively, there are no levels when it comes to combat. It only effects loot, gear and skills. You will notice that NPCs don't even display a level any more.
I think it's a MUCH better system than the tired old WOW way of doing things. It means you can go where ever you want without being level gated.
To whomever stated the starting zones are dead; you're either a Troll, or just plain full of shit. The game is busy everywhere. Cities that were dead pre 1T are now hopping. Try again.
Every mob in 1T is CP 160. How do I know? I use a couple different add ons that tell me what the mobs level is. Each add on agrees. They are CP 160.
Characters are scaled to CP 160. I know this because I started two new characters when 1T was released. Gear is much more important now because if your gear level is too far below your skill level you will get owned.
As for the argument about whether being able to go to any zone at any time diminishes or enhances the game play; that is up to each player and what they enjoy. Personally, I'm having a great time going where I want when I want.
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Alliance War
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However, no gating means no progression.
The problem with your 10 mobs example is that at no point do you NEED to take on 10 mobs. You're just choosing to do it by aggroing them all or something. You can kill them 1-3 at a time if you want to. I guess progression means speed to you....
Oh, and the difference is that you can't kill the level 30 mobs... gated.. so, progression.
It's content that a player with only low level skills and poor gear will pretty well need to group in to access but once you've leveled and geared up enough you can easily solo.
There are many more examples that are not as obvious and all of them revolve around the difference in time to kill things without you taking much damage which is easy for higher level characters than for low levels. The leveling is subtle in ESO but it's there.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The point is, you do progress and you can feel it as you do.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Personally do I think that increasing the difficulty could work just as well as having levels. Unlock specializations with achievements and get better gear or just play really good and you can skip levels altogether. The advantage with that is that playerskill can replace gear and the other way around, if you play good enough you don't have to grind to get to the harder parts and you will reward people for playing well while people that play poorly will have to spend far more time in the game.
I kinda feel that a very small part of the content in any MMO require any skill nowadays and if anything before max level is hard lazy players just outlevel it first and get to max level without getting any kind of challenge. When those people actually hit the endgame they just tire and leave. There is really no point in learning to play before the endgame, you basically level up at the same time by doing the easiest quest and there is no point in bothering to get acceptable gear before you max out either.
All the levels do is forcing us to grind, one can do stuff over your level to get more challenge but that wont be particularly rewarding, usually level that way tend to take longer time so few people bother.
Leveling just ain't fun anymore and they make all the content a few levels below you meaningless and without much rewards if any (and a 3 year old kid can do grey quests). It splits the playerbase as well.
In EQ levels were grindy but they also meant something, and you were always trying to have good gear no matter what level you were because otherwise things would be very hard, and you didn't outlevel a good piece of gear in a few hours. Since they taken that away I just don't see the point of levels at all.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
But levels are not an absolute requirement to give you that feeling. They're just the traditional way to do it but there are better ways. The ESO skill system that works independent of level has always done that and was always the whole point of the progression.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I think it's a MUCH better system than the tired old WOW way of doing things. It means you can go where ever you want without being level gated.
Every mob in 1T is CP 160. How do I know? I use a couple different add ons that tell me what the mobs level is. Each add on agrees. They are CP 160.
Characters are scaled to CP 160. I know this because I started two new characters when 1T was released. Gear is much more important now because if your gear level is too far below your skill level you will get owned.
As for the argument about whether being able to go to any zone at any time diminishes or enhances the game play; that is up to each player and what they enjoy.
Personally, I'm having a great time going where I want when I want.