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Overwatch League coming 2017- taking e-sports to the next level

holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
in Overwatch
Next year, Blizzard is introducing the Overwatch league.  It's going to consist of teams representing cities competing against each other.  

I think this is amazing.  Not only does Overwatch lend itself so well to e-sports, being dependent on both individual skill and teamplay for success, but having teams representing cities adds a new level of legitimacy to e-sports and is just plain fun.

Hype video:




Explanation video:


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Comments

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,430
    Neat idea.  i really enjoy the game and look to see how it evolves.

    I self identify as a monkey.

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  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    blueturtle13 said:
    Overwatch lends itself well for less competitive E-Sport competitions but it will never reach CS  or LoL level of E-Sport.

    Why do you think that?  With teams representing cities, it seems like it will be moving far beyond CS or LoL, at least when it comes to public perception.

    Most people don't know anything about CS or LoL.  If there's an Overwatch team representing your city, you're going to find out about it and maybe even go see a match at your local venue.

    If you mean "skill-wise", I wholeheartedly disagree.  Overwatch combines the skill of both CS and LoL, meaning it's much more skill-based than either of them.
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  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    edited November 2016
    Overwatch lends itself well for less competitive E-Sport competitions but it will never reach CS  or LoL level of E-Sport.

    Why do you think that?  With teams representing cities, it seems like it will be moving far beyond CS or LoL, at least when it comes to public perception.

    Most people don't know anything about CS or LoL.  If there's an Overwatch team representing your city, you're going to find out about it and maybe even go see a match at your local venue.

    If you mean "skill-wise", I wholeheartedly disagree.  Overwatch combines the skill of both CS and LoL, meaning it's much more skill-based than either of them.
    Your joking right? Overwatch is a cake walk compared to competitive CS
    Hell even TF2 has a higher skill cap.
    Blizzard has not denied this either. They said they wanted to make a competitive team shooter that was more accessible for the non hardcore. That is one of the reasons why they have sold so well.
     
    Nope, not joking.  To be a good McCree, you need the same kind of aim as you do in CS.  PLUS you need to be good with abilities AND have team coordination.

    With CS you just frag out and you're good.

    You're right that Blizzard did a phenomenal job of making the game accessible and fun for casuals.  But that in no way precludes top level play, or implies that top level play is anything at all like casual play.

    TF2 is hardly worth talking about since it's an imbalanced mess of a game.  Fun to mess around in but not an e-sport.
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  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    blueturtle13 said:
    holdenhamlet said:
    blueturtle13 said:
    holdenhamlet said:
    blueturtle13 said:
    Overwatch lends itself well for less competitive E-Sport competitions but it will never reach CS  or LoL level of E-Sport.

    Why do you think that?  With teams representing cities, it seems like it will be moving far beyond CS or LoL, at least when it comes to public perception.

    Most people don't know anything about CS or LoL.  If there's an Overwatch team representing your city, you're going to find out about it and maybe even go see a match at your local venue.

    If you mean "skill-wise", I wholeheartedly disagree.  Overwatch combines the skill of both CS and LoL, meaning it's much more skill-based than either of them.
    Your joking right? Overwatch is a cake walk compared to competitive CS
    Hell even TF2 has a higher skill cap.
    Blizzard has not denied this either. They said they wanted to make a competitive team shooter that was more accessible for the non hardcore. That is one of the reasons why they have sold so well.
     
    Nope, not joking.  To be a good McCree, you need the same kind of aim as you do in CS.  PLUS you need to be good with abilities AND have team coordination.

    With CS you just frag out and you're good.

    You're right that Blizzard did a phenomenal job of making the game accessible and fun for casuals.  But that in no way precludes top level play, or implies that top level play is anything at all like casual play.
    lol as an ex competitive MGS player, in my professional opinion I disagree. As does Blizzard. 
    LOL yeah clearly Blizzard doesn't see Overwatch as a competitive game.  That's why they're launching the most ambitious e-sport league ever next year.
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  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    edited November 2016
    Overwatch lends itself well for less competitive E-Sport competitions but it will never reach CS  or LoL level of E-Sport.

    Why do you think that?  With teams representing cities, it seems like it will be moving far beyond CS or LoL, at least when it comes to public perception.

    Most people don't know anything about CS or LoL.  If there's an Overwatch team representing your city, you're going to find out about it and maybe even go see a match at your local venue.

    If you mean "skill-wise", I wholeheartedly disagree.  Overwatch combines the skill of both CS and LoL, meaning it's much more skill-based than either of them.
    Your joking right? Overwatch is a cake walk compared to competitive CS
    Hell even TF2 has a higher skill cap.
    Blizzard has not denied this either. They said they wanted to make a competitive team shooter that was more accessible for the non hardcore. That is one of the reasons why they have sold so well.
     
    Agree with Blue. 

    Come try CSGO at high ranks (Supreme / Global). You will be dead within 0.5 sec since you see the enemy every single time. 
    Why do you guys think aim is easier in Overwatch?  Aiming is exactly the same in both games.  It's just Overwatch has many more elements to consider than just aim.
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    blueturtle13 said:
    holdenhamlet said:
    blueturtle13 said:
    holdenhamlet said:
    blueturtle13 said:
    holdenhamlet said:
    blueturtle13 said:
    Overwatch lends itself well for less competitive E-Sport competitions but it will never reach CS  or LoL level of E-Sport.

    Why do you think that?  With teams representing cities, it seems like it will be moving far beyond CS or LoL, at least when it comes to public perception.

    Most people don't know anything about CS or LoL.  If there's an Overwatch team representing your city, you're going to find out about it and maybe even go see a match at your local venue.

    If you mean "skill-wise", I wholeheartedly disagree.  Overwatch combines the skill of both CS and LoL, meaning it's much more skill-based than either of them.
    Your joking right? Overwatch is a cake walk compared to competitive CS
    Hell even TF2 has a higher skill cap.
    Blizzard has not denied this either. They said they wanted to make a competitive team shooter that was more accessible for the non hardcore. That is one of the reasons why they have sold so well.
     
    Nope, not joking.  To be a good McCree, you need the same kind of aim as you do in CS.  PLUS you need to be good with abilities AND have team coordination.

    With CS you just frag out and you're good.

    You're right that Blizzard did a phenomenal job of making the game accessible and fun for casuals.  But that in no way precludes top level play, or implies that top level play is anything at all like casual play.
    lol as an ex competitive MGS player, in my professional opinion I disagree. As does Blizzard. 
    LOL yeah clearly Blizzard doesn't see Overwatch as a competitive game.  That's why they're launching the most ambitious e-sport league ever next year.
    Noone said anything about them not making a competitive game suited for their fans. It was whether or not it could compete with the big boys ;)
    The "big boys" being games that don't require team play and coordination, or ones like LoL that don't require much aim at all?

    Alrighty then.
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    edited November 2016
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  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    blueturtle13 said:
    holdenhamlet said:
    blueturtle13 said:
    holdenhamlet said:
    blueturtle13 said:
    holdenhamlet said:
    blueturtle13 said:
    holdenhamlet said:
    blueturtle13 said:
    Overwatch lends itself well for less competitive E-Sport competitions but it will never reach CS  or LoL level of E-Sport.

    Why do you think that?  With teams representing cities, it seems like it will be moving far beyond CS or LoL, at least when it comes to public perception.

    Most people don't know anything about CS or LoL.  If there's an Overwatch team representing your city, you're going to find out about it and maybe even go see a match at your local venue.

    If you mean "skill-wise", I wholeheartedly disagree.  Overwatch combines the skill of both CS and LoL, meaning it's much more skill-based than either of them.
    Your joking right? Overwatch is a cake walk compared to competitive CS
    Hell even TF2 has a higher skill cap.
    Blizzard has not denied this either. They said they wanted to make a competitive team shooter that was more accessible for the non hardcore. That is one of the reasons why they have sold so well.
     
    Nope, not joking.  To be a good McCree, you need the same kind of aim as you do in CS.  PLUS you need to be good with abilities AND have team coordination.

    With CS you just frag out and you're good.

    You're right that Blizzard did a phenomenal job of making the game accessible and fun for casuals.  But that in no way precludes top level play, or implies that top level play is anything at all like casual play.
    lol as an ex competitive MGS player, in my professional opinion I disagree. As does Blizzard. 
    LOL yeah clearly Blizzard doesn't see Overwatch as a competitive game.  That's why they're launching the most ambitious e-sport league ever next year.
    Noone said anything about them not making a competitive game suited for their fans. It was whether or not it could compete with the big boys ;)
    The "big boys" being games that don't require team play and coordination, or ones like LoL that don't require much aim at all?

    Alrighty then.
    Have you ever played CS? it is team based and class based. What about CoD? Battlefield?
    Have you ever set up an ultimate combo in CS?  You do it in LoL, but do you do it in CS?  Do you aim for headshots in LoL?  Do you see how Overwatch combines elements from both these games, and mastering more elements means top players will have more skills than someone that just masters one or the other?

    Honestly, Blue, I can't even talk to you about Overwatch.  Your hatred is palpable and you've convinced yourself that Blizzard thinks the game is totally casual and thinks tf2 is the ultimate ability-based fps game for all eternity.  It's bizzaro world in your brain.
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  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    "I do think TF2 is the best hero shooter ever made. As does Blizzard."

    Uh huh.
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    edited November 2016
    "But dont get me wrong. I am not saying Overwatch is a bad game. I think it is just different from CSGO which is a good thing for the many people who like OW.

    I also think that the OW league is a great idea."

    Clearly Overwatch is different.  There are many more things to consider in Overwatch than just line of sight.  But that makes the game inherently casual I guess.
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  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    blueturtle13 said:
    "I do think TF2 is the best hero shooter ever made. As does Blizzard."

    Uh huh.
    “If people want to compare Overwatch to Team Fortress 2, we would take that as the world’s greatest compliment," said Kaplan. “We love that game; it’s probably one of my favourite games of all time. Those guys are geniuses; that guy, Robin Walker, up at Valve - I had the honor of meeting him."
    That's a gracious statement.  How does that equate to "TF2 is the best hero shooter ever made, even better than Overwatch."
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  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    blueturtle13 said:
    holdenhamlet said:
    blueturtle13 said:
    "I do think TF2 is the best hero shooter ever made. As does Blizzard."

    Uh huh.
    “If people want to compare Overwatch to Team Fortress 2, we would take that as the world’s greatest compliment," said Kaplan. “We love that game; it’s probably one of my favourite games of all time. Those guys are geniuses; that guy, Robin Walker, up at Valve - I had the honor of meeting him."
    That's a gracious statement.  How does that equate to "TF2 is the best hero shooter ever made, even better than Overwatch."
    Play it and see
    No dude I'm not playing it!


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  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 719
    edited November 2016
    Overwatch is child's play compared to dota or cs, anyone claiming otherwise has one of the following : an agenda, unhealthy obsession against dota/cs, unhealthy obsession for a competitive game that's not dota or cs.

    Whether they never could get good enough in dota or cs, or if they have some wierd stuff to prove/disprove is irrelevant to their extreme lack of objectivity in the matter.
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    13lake said:
    Overwatch is child's play compared to dota or cs, anyone claiming otherwise has one of the following : an agenda, unhealthy obsession against dota/cs, unhealthy obsession for a competitive game that's not dota or cs.

    Whether they never could get good enough in dota or cs, or if they have some wierd stuff to prove/disprove is irrelevant to their extreme lack of objectivity in the matter.
    That's a common perception, but can you explain why you think that way?
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    edited November 2016
    13lake said:
    Overwatch is child's play compared to dota or cs, anyone claiming otherwise has one of the following : an agenda, unhealthy obsession against dota/cs, unhealthy obsession for a competitive game that's not dota or cs.

    Whether they never could get good enough in dota or cs, or if they have some wierd stuff to prove/disprove is irrelevant to their extreme lack of objectivity in the matter.
    That's a common perception, but can you explain why you think that way?
    I think that if you are a good player in games like CoD, UT, Q3, BF, etc. and you decide to try out OW, you will have a good time in that game even if you get to play with more skilled and experienced players. You run around, do some damage, get some frags,...

    If you decide to jump in CS, you will get totally crushed over and over without even firing a single shot when you get to play with more skilled players. You would be getting killed before you get to even see the enemy. You would feel like it is not even possible for the players to kill you like that without cheating. When you meet an enemy in CS, the fight usually lasts up to 1 sec. You either headshot him within 1 sec after you see him or you are dead.

    Just a short 7 sec video for illustration. 

     

    This video lasts 7 sec just because he did not hit him with the first shot. This shot was done with AWP sniper rifle which always kills with 1 hit unless you hit enemy's legs. Nevertheless, there are also other automatic weapons that kill with 1 hit when you do a head shot even if the enemy is wearing a helmet (e.g. AK47). The players who have good skills kill with automatic rifles like AK47 the same way as the guy in the video with the AWP. They just push the trigger (=prefire) before they even see you or you see them.

    Comparing the games like those I mentioned above with CS is, for me, like comparing Need for Speed with Assetto Corsa or Battlefield with Arma. You need crazy skills to be competitive in CS.
    I don't see how a short TTK = skillful, but regardless, Widomaker can do the same thing (although she has to hit your head to do it, not just anywhere but the legs...).

    But what you're describing is just exploiting predictable patterns.  Surely an experienced player would be able to avoid walking into bullets, no?

    Predicting opponent behavior is a skill, but I don't see why you think it's CS exclusive.

    Anywhere here's some widowmaker gameplay



    The thing is, it's not just the twitch/predictive gameplay that makes Overwatch skillful.  You also have to be strategic and play a team role like in MOBAs.

    It's true as an individual, you don't have to be good at aiming to be good at Overwatch because you can play characters that don't require much aim (if any at all, really).  But for a team to be successful on a competitive level, they're going to need at least a couple great hitscan players.
    Post edited by holdenhamlet on
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    I dont think this will work out the way you think it will.  Looks and sounds good on paper but application just not meshing.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227
    13lake said:
    Overwatch is child's play compared to dota or cs, 
    And that is how it will break through mainstream.... 

    You see... If the broad audience can´t make heads from tails over what is a good play and why.. They will lose interest very fast....

    But child´s play....  Nah... CS:GO is about as basic as a shooter goes... pick gun, point gun, pull trigger. The so called "big boys" status comes from being about as forgiving as gravity. That sets a insane skill requirement but does not equal complexity. After all.. Trying to bowl a strike with only one pin is a lot more difficult than ten if the bowling ball explodes if you grab it even the slightest way wrong... 10 pin is still far more complex. =P 

    See the difference? 


    As for Blizzards new push.... they pretty much just slapped the rest of the ESport biz in the face with about 2 foot of meat, asking them what they have done to advance the field. Ballsy, maybe in the end futile but still ballsy. I really look forward to see where it goes, and no matter what it will mark a permanent shift in how esport is done. 

    This have been a good conversation

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