OK. Regulars around here will probably know that I have been highly skeptical of this title. I felt that their scope was far too grandiose for the team (and may still be). Renfail and I have had a few tilts on the field of forums. That said, he recently posted a developer update on their main site that seems to have gone unnoticed. I absolutely applaud the honesty here as he outlines what can reasonably be expected at launch. I think if others quite clearly outlined things like this (instead of adding ridiculous Stretch Goals when they can't even complete the base game) a lot of heartache would be avoided! Also, while they have opened a store, none of the money is being used to fund the game. I was skeptical of this at first, but now that is clearly the case so I also applaud this. Anyhow, without further adieu (warning, it's a really... really long read as Renfail apparently really likes to type):
"That being said, with the recent rush of people's perception of what they THINK game companies are working on compared to what the companies are ACTUALLY working on (Star Citizen, Shroud of the Avatar, Chronicles of Elyria, Camelot Unchained, Pantheon, the chaos surrounding No Man’s Sky and players claiming false advertisement, etc.), we want to take the time to clear the air regarding our game and our development."
https://sagaoflucimia.com/forums/index.php?threads/feature-complete-managing-expectations.648/
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Comments
Now I have to read up on what this game is about, really have no idea.
OK, up to speed, will have to wish them well and play elsewhere.
I admire what they are trying to do, but I'm more of a 2-3 hour play session sort of guy.
Their target audiance of 3-6 hours a day, multiple days a week will have to wait until I retire.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The private Country Club of MMORPGS. Perhaps there is a bit of mad genius in catering only to whales?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm pretty sure if they got 5k people donating every month they'd think they had won the lotto.
Some spit-ball math here. 5000 subscribers x $15 = $75,000 per month. Dividing $75,000 into three piles, gives $25,000 for salaries, $25,000 for networking (connectivity charges, routing hardware and maintenance) and $25,000 for servers (hardware, software, licensing), hosting and miscellaneous expenses. With 15 employees, $25,000 in salary only goes so far -- about 1665 per employee (about $20,000 per year salary per person) -- not including taxes, benefits, etc. These people will be keeping their day job. I hope their expectations are within those realities. The other numbers also seem extremely marginal to me, and there's no place for recouping the cost of development.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
The point isn't to debate if 5k is a jackpot. The point is that a developer is HONESTLY saying that what they launch with will be limited. They haven't kicked off a massive marketing effort to try and have people support them while they create the game. They are not drawing ANY salary until they launch, so if they fail to launch they all have a lot to lose.
I'm happy to see a developer try to LOWER expectations this early in the process. Normally we don't see that until just before launch, after they have collected tens of millions of dollars and they start to hint that the vast majority of their promises will come... later.
Sure this means these guys won't have thousands of new people tossing money at them now, but at least the ones that DO clearly know what they can expect and thus if extra stuff makes it in will actually be HAPPY instead of disappointed at the laundry list of cuts.
Under promise and over deliver. Not sure if they will in fact over deliver, but at least they have taken the step to clarify everyone's expectations PRIOR to getting millions of dollars thrown at them and then saying "Sorry No Refunds" or, "Thanks for the Million... now to actually launch the game please give us 2-3 million more!"
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Again, I haven't given them a dime and have had some significant arguments with Renfail right on these forums (remember the whole box of tissues comments?) but when a developer does RIGHT about deflating irrational hype (and does so BEFORE they collect millions of dollars) this is the kind of stuff that should at least get a mention.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If you take this statement, " Our “winning the lotto” outcome is more than 5,000 monthly subscriptions, allowing us to expand the team and work on even more features." from that interesting read linked in the OP.
Then look at their FAQ on their website which says, " While our final price isn’t set in stone, you can expect it to be in the ballpark of 15 to 20 dollars a month." I have to some concerns about this working out.
I mean subs just isn't super viable nowadays barring some rare exceptions much less that low sub number they feel works.
The game looks interesting and I will keep an eye on it but I am not giving them any money till the game is live and I can see some gameplay footage.
I am hoping this isn't one of those game where movement is sucky slow mo and walking is the defacto speed barring a few spurts of running.
RIght now this is reminding far too much of Pathfinder Online.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
When he mentions a year of content,i doubt it and when mentions a "slower pace"that can have a scary meaning behind it.Example Wizard 101 has a HORRIBLE questing system,they basically make you run from one end of the map to the other,nothing but a forced grind to accomplish very little.
Furthermore,on the topic of content,i detest when all games have to offer are yellow question marks over npc heads.That type of game will hit my trash can faster than my dog can eat.If i am looking for a MMORPG,i want a WORLD with world mechanics/properties,i do NOT want yellow question marks or some questing on rails game.
I also want to mention that even a GREAT game can be ruined if combat is too boring,or nothing has depth beyond the simplest form of kill bosses for loot,rinse and repeat.
Bottom line is that making a game takes a LOT of pre planning and some real smart,insightful people running it.Anyone can make a crap game and seems that is why the market is flooded,just about anyone is attempting to make games.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
A great example was Niien and his friends in our most recent Early Access build; it was a Saturday and they blasted out nine hours on Saturday and then another few hours on Sunday. But had it been a weekday, those sessions would have been far shorter. And they were also playing with their significant others and close friends.
So yeah...we're not building a game for people who *only* have time to dedicate massive play sessions. It's more about planning your sessions in advance to get the most out of a group-based game...but there will still be plenty you can do in micro sessions of 30 minutes to an hour, like crafting, hunting down lore, harvesting with friends, or getting together with 2-3 people and heading out to kill bandits or hunt down something in the wilderness just outside of your outpost/city.
Meanwhile, the dungeons and raids are there for those sessions when you have a significant chunk of time to dedicate to playing.
5k isn't winning the lotto. 5k is the minimum we're shooting for, the number that we feel comfortable we can obtain given our indie roots, no publisher, no major advertising budget, etc.
10k would be winning the lotto.
This is a hobby for us. Like building a train set, or flying drones, or painting models, or playing chess. It's something we do, for free, in our spare time.
Sure, we have some minimum goals in place. Goals that are there to ensure we have enough funds coming in to keep the servers going, to pay for lawyers, accountants, and the like.
And yes, we'd like to make some money, eventually. After the game launches; not before.
But we're setting our bar extremely low because we aren't in this to make millions (though we won't say no if they come our way). Rather, we're doing this because we want to, because we have a desire to, and because it's our passion.
At 5k subs only a handful of the team would go full-time: networking and customer support first and foremost, then from there we work our way down the list to programmers. Then are the world builders, artists, community managers, and lastly, me.
That's right, I'm the last guy on the totem pole who will ever draw a paycheck. Even though it's my vision.
That, and no one on the team would be willing to quit their day jobs unless we saw 6+ months of expansion past the launch of the title, or at least steady numbers without falling subscribers.
Assuming we hit our minimum numbers, a few of the core team members most critical to the day to day management of a live game get salaries first. The rest of us have a commitment to keep doing it in our spare time as we grow the game, and have a few bucks handed our way like a part-time job. As our subs grow, more team members can go full-time.
10k subs would let just about everyone on the team go full-time plus give us room to hire on a few new developers. So we'll just see what we see on the way there!
We're taking a tabletop and realistic stance to our world, which means that walking is defacto speed, you have stamina that is tied to your Constitution (which means limited bursts of running, you tire while climbing, can drown while swimming, etc.) and mounts are the only way to speed up your movement rate (above and beyond some limited Relic items and spells).
We play those games. We love those games. There's room enough for all types, niches, and styles without having to worry about what someone else is doing.
We have who we have because they love what we are doing, not simply because they are old-school players who cut their teeth on EQ1 or WoW Vanilla and are hooked on the nostalgia teat.