Yet the only way currently to earn one is for a player to fork over $750... Are you sure they are not meant to be achieved solo because that is exactly what is happening when they are sold in the cash shop...
This is not about the pledges yet after release to get them in-game, they are also not meant to be played solo; not without a disadvantage and it will be fun to see the tears over capitals being stolen as people realize they can just get a player crewed capital to screw the solo players! :chuffed:
Passive aggressive wording is all you have to come back with? You made a statement, he blew your argument up, and now you're salty about it. Quoting the rest doesn't make what he said less true. It just take up more space in the forums.
Do you think people defending a game they like is any more laughable than those who habitually troll it?
Hey, it's like for like. If someone wants to accuse me of stuff or make implied comments then turnabout is fair play, that's not being salty. I was calling out his desire to focus on one speculative, virtually irrelevant part of the quote instead of addressing the part that mattered because that's all he had.
What's telling is that you need to come and hold his trousers up for him, being accusatory and calling people trolls and the like. Seems to me like you're the one suffering from an overdose of salt if anyone is.
What about when me and my pirate group hijack one in under 30 minutes at almost zero cost?
If it's that simple then it's not worth the effort.
Tell that to the EVE players because it can work exactly the same way. I wonder why the OP isn't posting salty rant threads about paying thousands of dollars in EVE for a ship? Pro-tip: He would be laughed off the forums.
Well let's see. I'm a Star Citizen backer looking at how things will pan out for the game and the P2W topic is of interest to me. I'm not a player of EVE anymore so it would daft for me to start posting about something I don't follow.
This topic is addressing the recent comments by Roberts, Lesnick and now Wilkie about ship pricing in game and the difference between what is being paid now, quite an important topic for those of us who are hoping for some sort of balance to the game. We've had comments from CIG and fans alike maintaining the game will not be pay to win, that buying ships now will not grant them any advantages over people that earn them in game. This puts paid to that idea.
Lastly, people talk about EVE's PLEX to ISK being P2W all the time, however you don't recover your all of your PLEX when you're destroyed so it's a pretty bad way to spend money. In Star Citizen your hull is 100% lifetime covered so you're not losing any money in comparison.
That sort of also blows away the OPs completely invented fear-mongering scenario. No one knows exactly how it will work out, but existing examples of similar systems have checks and balances in place. There are examples that argue against what the OP claims and the OP hasn't even addressed, again, why it will work so radically different in this game.
He makes these claims about SC often, but never really explains why it will be broken here, but works okay in other games.
How is it fearmongering if I'm taking numbers that they themselves have given us?
The only person fearmongering is you with your silly claims of FUD.
You, and every one else that mentions that the UEC per hour numbers are speculative are right, I have never claimed otherwise, but they are also based on comments made by Roberts they are not unfounded assumptions.
If the UEC per hour rate is too high what do you think will happen with the RMT market?
@trove123 yup SC is the evil one, things that are a success and done on other games, but ofc on SC everything is awful and bad; I can't believe even currency earning scaling over the several tiers of gameplay that is the mainstream of MMO's is said as a bad thing on SC.
@rpmcmurphy It's called game design you know? That phase where you are figuring out what will work and what will not work out? That phase you are experimenting? This is game balance ffs this will be a WIP to release and even after!
Seriously CIG really needs to close down more about talking about this when things are not set in stone and avoids these continuous dramas... To the next thread about this! And the one after, and the one after, and the one after, and the on.... Things are not black and white and the game is complex enough to literally have many possibilities to how this core balance, both progression, and the economy will end up as.
And - as EVE and Elite have shown - anyone who figures out the trade system will have many million of in game money within months after launch.
That's just speculation.
Thats not speculation ... thats experience in many different sci-fi games over decades. Have fun
It actually is speculation because SC isn't released yet so you have no idea if it's going to be like EVE/Elite or not. You yourself said it well in your first post in this thread "Theorycrafting with almost no FIXED information, where all data is still subject to change."
That sort of also blows away the OPs completely invented fear-mongering scenario. No one knows exactly how it will work out, but existing examples of similar systems have checks and balances in place. There are examples that argue against what the OP claims and the OP hasn't even addressed, again, why it will work so radically different in this game.
He makes these claims about SC often, but never really explains why it will be broken here, but works okay in other games.
Nobody knows how things are going to work out in SC because it's not released and won't be for a long time to come. The lead SC White Knight was upset because someone speculated on how much a super duper ship was going to cost yet he seemed to have no problem speculating himself on how easily said ship will be to obtain without spending an absurd amount of money based on how EVE and Elite, two completely different games, handle their economies because...all 3 games are Sci Fi???
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Wow now a endgame ship aimed at big ORG's is pay 2 win because a single player would take a lot of time to get it. How shamefulness. Get a grip please.
Wow now a endgame ship aimed at big ORG's is pay 2 win because a single player would take a lot of time to get it. How shamefulness. Get a grip please.
No. It is pay to win because even 25 players (the crew size) will have to use a lot of time gaining it in game, but 25 players paying for it with $30 each will get their share as the cheapest ship in the game.
Wow now a endgame ship aimed at big ORG's is pay 2 win because a single player would take a lot of time to get it. How shamefulness. Get a grip please.
THIS is what I don't understand of this "neutral people who are totally not pursuing one anti-SC narrative".
What the developer said is pretty much the MAINSTREAM balance pratice put on MMO's towards what is the top tier gear / vechiles / etc; that is made with the monetary cost as @bartoni33 mentioned very well.
Yet if SC grabs its top-tier ships on this case and does the same... They are shameless.
It's like people here have not played MMO's, on GW2 I took pretty much 2 years until I reached the legendary (top-tier) weapon gear; Yet the alternative to spent 400$~ and buy it instantly was there. BOTH the gameplay and monetary paths are there... But of course, if Star Citizen dares to do the same, they are shameless.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
@rpmcmurphy It's called game design you know? That phase where you are figuring out what will work and what will not work out? That phase you are experimenting? This is game balance ffs this will be a WIP to release and even after!
Seriously CIG really needs to close down more about talking about this when things are not set in stone and avoids these continuous dramas... To the next thread about this! And the one after, and the one after, and the one after, and the on.... Things are not black and white and the game is complex enough to literally have many possibilities to how this core balance, both progression, and the economy will end up as.
Well it's not like they haven't had 4 years or more to sort this stuff out is it.
And who cares if it's experimenting or not, that's totally irrelevant because the numbers are based on what they have said right now. The only speculative part is the time involved but as I said elsewhere, if you bump the hourly rate up consider what happens with regards to RMT.
If they come out with revised figures then it gets talked about with those numbers in mind. You guys want to make out that it is inconsequential but for a lot of people how grindy the game will be is quite an important topic. Letting wallet warriors gain ships that are meant to take 20 people no small time to acquire is not something that should be brushed off lightly.
Unfortunately for you this is something that will always plague Star Citizen simply due to it's method of fundraising, if you don't like these discussions, if you feel they're too dramatic because you feel they paint the game in a bad light you can simply avoid the topic, no one is making you read it, no one is making you post here.
I feel this is at this point in time futile theorycrafting, based on numbers that are still in flux and based on a faulty understanding of computer game mission reward progression vs. in game money/time sinks.
I feel this is at this point in time futile theorycrafting, based on numbers that are still in flux and based on a faulty understanding of computer game mission reward progression vs. in game money/time sinks.
Have fun
And yet you did it yourself. How about everyone, including you, stop their theory crafting until something more concrete is actually released? You can't make assumptions on how SC is ultimately going to turn out based on developer interviews or the glorified demo available now.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Always love arguing about things that dont exist yet.
But the arguments from both sides here are dumb. Obviously its pay to win anyone saying it isnt is just trolling. Also the defenders of the game talking about how easy it is going to be to steal them. I doubt that is part of the sales pitch. But yeah if they allow these thefts in game involving ships guys spent tens of thousands of dollar on its going to be more interesting. Assuming this project actually becomes a game with tall that stuff in it.
At this point I am doubtful anything playable beyond what they have now is ever going to exist. simply because of the glacial pace things are coming out. If they put out 1/100 the content of all the videos they have made in their fancy movie studio this thing would be a decent game already instead of whatever it actually is.
The only certainty wit this thing is they will continue to make videos and they will continue to invent jpegs to sell. Beyond that no one knows anything.
The whole thing is about to become a fiasko, its hard enough to balance a game with 10 classes now you have 20+ ships (classes) + variants + multiplayer ships + stealing mechanics + people who've got LTI and people who don't + people who used the $$$ cash shop - this altogether in a MMO game where PvP is allowed.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Seriously, you don't know where People end up playing. It can be on CiG's persistent servers or their own private multiplayer servers. Everything is possible when the persistent universe launches.
SC is and will not be another EVE Online.
And second, and most important, why on Earth would you want a Capitcal ship early in the game? You can't fly and use it alone! You need 24 other People you can trust to fly the thing!
Not to mention that a Group of pirate players in fast ships can blow this thing up and it will cost you a fortune on ingame currency to keep such a ship insured and flying! The maintenance costs will be immense. And anyone that has played EVE Online knows very well that the bigger and more expensive your ship, the harder and quicker you will bankrupt yourself! /shrug
I always flew small ships in EVE and never bothered with the big ones. That way I had a lot more fun and never had to worry about losing obsene amounts of ISK every time I got blown up! And you will get blown up! No matter how good you think you are.
Seriously, you don't know where People end up playing. It can be on CiG's persistent servers or their own private multiplayer servers. Everything is possible when the persistent universe launches.
SC is and will not be another EVE Online.
And second, and most important, why on Earth would you want a Capitcal ship early in the game? You can't fly and use it alone! You need 24 other People you can trust to fly the thing!
Not to mention that a Group of pirate players in fast ships can blow this thing up and it will cost you a fortune on ingame currency to keep such a ship insured and flying! The maintenance costs will be immense. And anyone that has played EVE Online knows very well that the bigger and more expensive your ship, the harder and quicker you will bankrupt yourself! /shrug
I always flew small ships in EVE and never bothered with the big ones. That way I had a lot more fun and never had to worry about losing obsene amounts of ISK every time I got blown up! And you will get blown up! No matter how good you think you are.
With it's 500k+ customers and instances that will support up to 100 Ships in an instance it counts without any doubt as a MMO. Private Servers will be in planning way after the release of SC - Quote CIG Community Manager: "Some of us will be dead before this will happen".
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Comments
Hey, it's like for like. If someone wants to accuse me of stuff or make implied comments then turnabout is fair play, that's not being salty. I was calling out his desire to focus on one speculative, virtually irrelevant part of the quote instead of addressing the part that mattered because that's all he had.
What's telling is that you need to come and hold his trousers up for him, being accusatory and calling people trolls and the like. Seems to me like you're the one suffering from an overdose of salt if anyone is.
Well let's see. I'm a Star Citizen backer looking at how things will pan out for the game and the P2W topic is of interest to me. I'm not a player of EVE anymore so it would daft for me to start posting about something I don't follow.
This topic is addressing the recent comments by Roberts, Lesnick and now Wilkie about ship pricing in game and the difference between what is being paid now, quite an important topic for those of us who are hoping for some sort of balance to the game.
We've had comments from CIG and fans alike maintaining the game will not be pay to win, that buying ships now will not grant them any advantages over people that earn them in game. This puts paid to that idea.
Lastly, people talk about EVE's PLEX to ISK being P2W all the time, however you don't recover your all of your PLEX when you're destroyed so it's a pretty bad way to spend money. In Star Citizen your hull is 100% lifetime covered so you're not losing any money in comparison.
How is it fearmongering if I'm taking numbers that they themselves have given us?
The only person fearmongering is you with your silly claims of FUD.
You, and every one else that mentions that the UEC per hour numbers are speculative are right, I have never claimed otherwise, but they are also based on comments made by Roberts they are not unfounded assumptions.
If the UEC per hour rate is too high what do you think will happen with the RMT market?
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
See? Not that hard.
What the developer said is pretty much the MAINSTREAM balance pratice put on MMO's towards what is the top tier gear / vechiles / etc; that is made with the monetary cost as @bartoni33 mentioned very well.
Yet if SC grabs its top-tier ships on this case and does the same... They are shameless.
It's like people here have not played MMO's, on GW2 I took pretty much 2 years until I reached the legendary (top-tier) weapon gear; Yet the alternative to spent 400$~ and buy it instantly was there. BOTH the gameplay and monetary paths are there... But of course, if Star Citizen dares to do the same, they are shameless.
Meh, let the haters hate!
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well it's not like they haven't had 4 years or more to sort this stuff out is it.
And who cares if it's experimenting or not, that's totally irrelevant because the numbers are based on what they have said right now. The only speculative part is the time involved but as I said elsewhere, if you bump the hourly rate up consider what happens with regards to RMT.
If they come out with revised figures then it gets talked about with those numbers in mind. You guys want to make out that it is inconsequential but for a lot of people how grindy the game will be is quite an important topic.
Letting wallet warriors gain ships that are meant to take 20 people no small time to acquire is not something that should be brushed off lightly.
Unfortunately for you this is something that will always plague Star Citizen simply due to it's method of fundraising, if you don't like these discussions, if you feel they're too dramatic because you feel they paint the game in a bad light you can simply avoid the topic, no one is making you read it, no one is making you post here.
Have fun
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
But the arguments from both sides here are dumb. Obviously its pay to win anyone saying it isnt is just trolling. Also the defenders of the game talking about how easy it is going to be to steal them. I doubt that is part of the sales pitch. But yeah if they allow these thefts in game involving ships guys spent tens of thousands of dollar on its going to be more interesting. Assuming this project actually becomes a game with tall that stuff in it.
At this point I am doubtful anything playable beyond what they have now is ever going to exist. simply because of the glacial pace things are coming out. If they put out 1/100 the content of all the videos they have made in their fancy movie studio this thing would be a decent game already instead of whatever it actually is.
The only certainty wit this thing is they will continue to make videos and they will continue to invent jpegs to sell. Beyond that no one knows anything.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
/end thread!
Seriously, you don't know where People end up playing. It can be on CiG's persistent servers or their own private multiplayer servers. Everything is possible when the persistent universe launches.
SC is and will not be another EVE Online.
And second, and most important, why on Earth would you want a Capitcal ship early in the game? You can't fly and use it alone! You need 24 other People you can trust to fly the thing!
Not to mention that a Group of pirate players in fast ships can blow this thing up and it will cost you a fortune on ingame currency to keep such a ship insured and flying! The maintenance costs will be immense.
And anyone that has played EVE Online knows very well that the bigger and more expensive your ship, the harder and quicker you will bankrupt yourself! /shrug
I always flew small ships in EVE and never bothered with the big ones. That way I had a lot more fun and never had to worry about losing obsene amounts of ISK every time I got blown up! And you will get blown up! No matter how good you think you are.
Private Servers will be in planning way after the release of SC - Quote CIG Community Manager: "Some of us will be dead before this will happen".
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.