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What Ever Happened to Live Events? - General Columns

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  • NyghthowlerNyghthowler Member UncommonPosts: 392

    Vesavius said:

    I am a member of the EQ/GQ2 GM events community... They still happen. You guys just choose to ignore them.



    No, we just choose to ignore the company that that now controls them...

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846
    edited October 2016
    In terms of that classic live events the GM's would trigger and players ran through and all, that's kinda died out now.

    I remember even GW2 originally did events as, like when the Karka Islands were introduced at X time the whole game had new events and a central city was invaded and all; problem was all players on the same area with tons of server instability and awful FPS made the whole experience awful.

    After that they changed the whole way they approached that. And overall on other games is kinda a more static scripted events, nothing really live being triggered by GM's, or something that happens once like the example I provided that was one event that ran once and introduced a new map to the game.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    I have been gaming a long long time and been in many live events.

    My long time experience with such says they are usually badly organized,not all that fun.

    Yes they usually do create a buzz,but do i find enjoyment from gaming for the BUZZ or for the fun of the game,well answer should be obvious.However that is me,there is no doubt MANY,likely the majority find it exciting just to see tons of other players gather around even of the content or idea is ho hum.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,470
    edited October 2016
    !!!! This is a silly article. If I need to make a local call do I need to dial "0" for an operator so I can ask her to connect me to Bob at the General Store? no I don't. xD

    Events can be automated now more than ever. Do devs still appear in games to play test? They sure do, but they don't appear just to run scripted events.

    As for Amazon Games, what I learned from SWG event system, most people have no creativity, and most times the tools that are given are terrible.
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • nhatnhat Member UncommonPosts: 166
    Tera online does it a few times a year. Spawning BAMs on unsuspecting areas or giving clues to where they're
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    lol see there are several complaints about the money and time wasted. I didn't anticipate the "I missed it so it sucks," angle, and I commiserate on the idea of a bad glitch being called an event.

    An event to me is something where someone on the server side participates in some situation with the players, preferably while portraying aspects or characters of the world.

    The AT-AT from SWG is a good example. Also I remember a CSR giving us hints one time about a terrain feature and when we went to it he populated it with some enemies, who dropped something nice for us when we finished. I went back to that spot a few more times and those things were never there again, which made me very happy because it was indeed something he did in the moment. That GM added value to the game experience.

    This robotic approach to adventure bums me out.
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • RenantonRenanton Member UncommonPosts: 26
    Everquest GMs used to spawn the gods in certain zones in the old days. Calls would go out and it would be a mass migration to go see and try to kill them. I remember Halloween 1999 or 2000, the GMs kept spawning gobs of werewolves in zones...everyone was trying their best to kill them or get rund over lol. Lot of fun for spontaneous dynamic spawning by the game masters!
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Ultima Online still has events, both GM and player made.

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • bingbongbrosbingbongbros Member UncommonPosts: 689
    It's pretty obvious why they don't happen anymore. You can't put them into a cash shop.

    Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
    Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
    Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.

  • GrakulenGrakulen Staff WriterMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 894
    It costs too much.
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305
    Same reason we don't have good honest game reviews anymore... oh hey look another pile of trash money grab got a 7.8 when it is actually a 2.0, but hey you can't offend the people who pay you to write your drivel so let's give it a 7.8!

    We don;t have live events anymore because greedy dev's are sucking the community dry, and we let them as all these sheep line up to spew their money at any pile of junk and suddenly "early access" was born, and "kickstart". Now line up all the shoddy lazy piles of trash being passed as "games".
  • exile01exile01 Member RarePosts: 1,089
    Ragnarok Online had some good events: Boss spawns, unique mob spawns, find GM, kill most mobs in time, answer the right question, etc.
  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,334
    Ever since the Incursions, EVE Online has had live events during its major event content. UO does live events (http://uo.com/live-events/), and they're currently looking to hire more Event Moderators. EQ and EQ2 have 'guide quests' during events, but I don't think I've seen one that was anything more than a player acting as the quest NPC. 

    Live Events can be a great addition ot an MMO, but with the manpower needed to manage and run them, it's prohibitive. The drama and community concerns that are often associated with them also diminish the appeal, at least for developers. 
    -- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG 
    RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? 
    FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?  
  • GrakulenGrakulen Staff WriterMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 894

    mmrv said:

    Same reason we don't have good honest game reviews anymore... oh hey look another pile of trash money grab got a 7.8 when it is actually a 2.0, but hey you can't offend the people who pay you to write your drivel so let's give it a 7.8!






    you did see the most recent game reviewed on this site got a 4.8 right?
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,333
    One of the first things to go from MMORPG's was live events. The rather more important question:

    Once you have stripped away everything that made MMORPG's what they were, why are we not now just calling them GOP, Game with Online Play?
  • sedatedkarmasedatedkarma Member UncommonPosts: 181
    I have yet to partake in a proper run live event. I do have some fond memories of the spontaneous, organic ones that happened in earlier WoW world PvP.
    Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    in Game Live events died when players bitched back in BC with the Pre-WOTLK even. They bitched that it caused them to slow down on their playing the Auction house or getting ready to raid. What amounted to a few minutes of dealing with the event caused major backlash of the vocal minority forum trolls. Now you have MMOs which will not do it because Forum Trolls.
  • Joseph_KerrJoseph_Kerr Member RarePosts: 1,113
    All those resources got shifted over to their cash shops.
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,840
    I think there should be two types of live events:

    1) GM controlled. This is where the devs have given the GMs tools to do things themselves. Typically all you need is for the GM to be able to send out messages, spawn in mobs and possibly set loot for certain spawns. This should be easy to do, puts the control in the hands of the GMs (who are there anyway) but should remain fun for those involved. Allowing GMs to control their spawns is even better, but not necessary. Most older MMOs had this capability, unsure on newer ones.

    2) Dev controlled. These are the bigger events that require actual dev work. Can be good fun, but are few and far between and usually so crowded they aren't all that fun. I hate seasonal events - they aren't "live" as such, just limited time. I'd rather the devs just created more tools for the GMs, almost turning them into DMs.
    Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    It's pretty obvious why they don't happen anymore. You can't put them into a cash shop.
    Why not?

    Live events do cost money - no question. How much? Lets assume it costs the company $50 an hour for the employee and the GM runs 2 events per hour for 20 people. So $1.25 per person. ($50 per hour is about $100k a year.) The exact cost of the GM doesn't matter. What matters is the rough cost. The exact cost will depend on the length of the event, number of people involved, other costs involved e.g. scripting, what % profit would the company look to add etc. Gives a ball park number.

    So:

    If the cost is "a few dollars" for a "short event" undertaken with "a medium sized group" "at a set time" would people buy tickets for it?
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,490
    mmrv said:
    Same reason we don't have good honest game reviews anymore... oh hey look another pile of trash money grab got a 7.8 when it is actually a 2.0, but hey you can't offend the people who pay you to write your drivel so let's give it a 7.8!

    We don;t have live events anymore because greedy dev's are sucking the community dry, and we let them as all these sheep line up to spew their money at any pile of junk and suddenly "early access" was born, and "kickstart". Now line up all the shoddy lazy piles of trash being passed as "games".
    If you have doubts as to whether the reviews are someone's honest opinion, I offer you exhibit A:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/league-of-angels/reviews/the-ultimate-evolution-of-minmaxing-1000000300

    The publisher spent a bunch of money advertising League of Angels on this site.  Then the site reviewed the game.  And gave it a 4.0.  Out of 10.  That's not what it would have gotten if the rating were primarily driven by spending money on ads on this site.

    There are a lot of sites that do snap reviews by someone who barely played the game and certainly didn't understand it.  This isn't one of them.  The "review in progress" that gives the reviewer a chance to absorb what happens over the course of a few weeks before completing the review is a great innovation.  Not many sites would be so willing to wait until weeks after launch to finish a review.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    Quizzical said:
    mmrv said:
    Same reason we don't have good honest game reviews anymore... oh hey look another pile of trash money grab got a 7.8 when it is actually a 2.0, but hey you can't offend the people who pay you to write your drivel so let's give it a 7.8!

    We don;t have live events anymore because greedy dev's are sucking the community dry, and we let them as all these sheep line up to spew their money at any pile of junk and suddenly "early access" was born, and "kickstart". Now line up all the shoddy lazy piles of trash being passed as "games".
    If you have doubts as to whether the reviews are someone's honest opinion, I offer you exhibit A:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/league-of-angels/reviews/the-ultimate-evolution-of-minmaxing-1000000300

    The publisher spent a bunch of money advertising League of Angels on this site.  Then the site reviewed the game.  And gave it a 4.0.  Out of 10.  That's not what it would have gotten if the rating were primarily driven by spending money on ads on this site.

    There are a lot of sites that do snap reviews by someone who barely played the game and certainly didn't understand it.  This isn't one of them.  The "review in progress" that gives the reviewer a chance to absorb what happens over the course of a few weeks before completing the review is a great innovation.  Not many sites would be so willing to wait until weeks after launch to finish a review.
    What if the game was a 1 out of 10 and the money boosted it to 4?
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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  • BartDaCatBartDaCat Member UncommonPosts: 813
    There are a slew of valid points being made in the comments section for this article, but what I'm noticing right away is that not only does the article itself rely on a longtime veteran MMORPG player's experience, it also poses the question to other longtime veteran MMORPG players, and that in itself is the key to answering the question posed in the article, so let's break it down like this:

    If the MMORPG genre as we know it has drastically changed so much in terms of saturation, themes, size, complexity, technological advancement, shifting revenue models, explosive and constantly fluctuating server populations, and popularity to the point that people bicker amongst themselves over who is considered a "casual" or who's "hard core", where in the grand scheme of things does a game developer find the time to offer equal access to the every player in order to avoid some of the pitfalls mentioned in so many of your comments?

    Then there's the constantly changing payment models and cash shops, occasionally hooking someone into sticking around and playing for a prolonged period of time, but more times than not seeing people surf in then surf out in an ever-increasing market of short attention span titles and mobile games. At that point engaging the entire audience in sporadic live events in order to sate their interests becomes economically unfeasible.

    With internet "trolling" being what it is today, there is that aspect to contend with as well. How do you avoid pissing off potential paying customers if they miss the event and potentially missed out on some unique reward received through participation? Not to mention, a limited time live-event is a potentially rewarding experience in itself. So, if you managed to hook them in as a subscriber and their in-real-life schedule got in the way of being able to participate, there's a strong chance you're going to have resentful customer that's upset if you don't repeat the event at a more convenient time for them.

    Live events were a terrific experience for those that got to participate in them when game populations were smaller, and it was more of a niche market that allowed developers to spend more individualized time with their player base. I think current developers realize this as well, and that's why you see some MMOs cleverly programming random world events into their games to create a quasi-"Live event" feel although to a much lesser degree and with no personal interaction.

    People lose sight of how much the MMO landscape has changed, and how popular it has become through different markets. MMOs are even operating at a functional level on consoles, although they're not as rich of an experience as a PC game (PC MASTER RACE! *shameless plug*). The genre has evolved. Much like any other interactive medium you now have one prime genre, then it spawned multiple sub-genres that cater to specific player bases. Game developers are stretched thin in what is now a highly volatile market. The best you can hope for is that some of the older games, with their built-in toolkits and dedicated populations remain buoyant and supported, because that's the other key to this equation.

    If and when the cheaply made cash grab titles fade away, the payment model gets situated, and a new veteran player base grows within the now-existing titles that hopefully sustains the developer long enough to dedicate resources to live events AND meet the needs of their multi-regional player base, then I would hope that we would see a return of these unscripted gems.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,333
    waynejr2 said:
    Quizzical said:
    mmrv said:
    Same reason we don't have good honest game reviews anymore... oh hey look another pile of trash money grab got a 7.8 when it is actually a 2.0, but hey you can't offend the people who pay you to write your drivel so let's give it a 7.8!

    We don;t have live events anymore because greedy dev's are sucking the community dry, and we let them as all these sheep line up to spew their money at any pile of junk and suddenly "early access" was born, and "kickstart". Now line up all the shoddy lazy piles of trash being passed as "games".
    If you have doubts as to whether the reviews are someone's honest opinion, I offer you exhibit A:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/league-of-angels/reviews/the-ultimate-evolution-of-minmaxing-1000000300

    The publisher spent a bunch of money advertising League of Angels on this site.  Then the site reviewed the game.  And gave it a 4.0.  Out of 10.  That's not what it would have gotten if the rating were primarily driven by spending money on ads on this site.

    There are a lot of sites that do snap reviews by someone who barely played the game and certainly didn't understand it.  This isn't one of them.  The "review in progress" that gives the reviewer a chance to absorb what happens over the course of a few weeks before completing the review is a great innovation.  Not many sites would be so willing to wait until weeks after launch to finish a review.
    What if the game was a 1 out of 10 and the money boosted it to 4?
    Geez I thought I was cynical. :)

    Very few MMOs are going to get a 1, that's a direst possible fail.
  • c-motc-mot Member UncommonPosts: 51
    best live events for me were the ones that included the player community.
    my favorite was the moving of the role playing community in SWG (pre-CU on Euro-Chimaera) from Mos Eisley to Mos Espa (after Mos Eisley became the sole starting place for new players).
    in the middle of a swoop race event in Mos Eisley the tuskens started an invasion and while the role players were evacuating (players in stormtrooper armor securing the road from the cantina to the shuttle port where the civilian players were evacuated) the rest of the players were fighting the tuskens in the streets and the buildungs of Mos Eisley. there was an epic fight on the roof of the Lucky Despot Cantina where 7 tusken executioneers spawned.

    the nice thing in SWG was that the game provided tools to create player created events - from creating race tracks for vehicles or mounts to decorations and in the end (NGE chronicles) including NPC mobs with loot options to kill or interact. there was a nice event on eclipse server from an imperial guild near the end of SWG, where they used their player city as location for a fight and puzzle event where you needed to search the city for hints to get the coordinates of a downed vessel for the final event act.

    this is where sandbox games shine.
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