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Inside the Troubled Development of Star Citizen

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  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    edited October 2016
    Oh and before I forget - the CIG way now is as soon as they realise that their camera system reacts sometimes dodgy to put another system on top of it to reduce the dodgyness ... that's what I mean with overcomplicated.

    Edit: and find a fancy name for it like "Camera-Lag-Reducing System (CLRS)"

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Oh and before I forget - the CIG way now is as soon as they realise that their camera system reacts sometimes dodgy to put another system on top of it to reduce the dodgyness ... that's what I mean with overcomplicated.

    Edit: and find a fancy name for it like "Camera-Lag-Reducing System (CLRS)"

    I'm quoting here to reduce the size of the post. 

    I can agree with you, a stable camera would be nice. I remember the initial head bob as being quite nauseating. That being said, I don't have any information about how they've implemented their head bob and why. It could be reactionary or it could be proactive to a larger system. We don't have access to their design documents, mind maps, or whatever else they're using to manage this. I've been involved with plenty of projects where it seemed like we were just putting band-aids on bullet holes only to find out that there are very specific reasons for the implementation, many of which weren't because the system was horribly broken (some yes). I guess we'll have to wait and see. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,644
    CrazKanuk said:
    lahnmir said:
    Having read through the Kotaku articles I find them to be a pretty decent piece of 'objective' journalism, as far as objective goes of course. I like the inclusion of Derek Smart and the 24 year old feud exposing big flaws in both Smarts AND Roberts character. Around here most just point at Smart because that is the easy thing to do.

    As for SC? I lost all sympathy when I read about ship debt. Selling virtual ships for a game that does not exist yet is dubious. Selling ships that have not even been designed yet for a game that does not exist yet borders on criminal imo.

    Roberts has never delivered everything he has promised in any of his games, why SC might be different is a mystery to me. Why people act like he can pull it of and heavily defend it is an even bigger mystery, are people that starved for a decent space sim that they are humping the hype train like no tomorrow?

    The future will tell but I think a lot of people are going to be very disappointed. And I ain't talking levels of SotA disappointment either...... Here is to hoping I am wrong.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir


    Oh, I think that disappointment is a given. That's not an SC issue though, that's a GAMER issue. Actually, it's a human issue. There is plenty of interesting information surrounding hype and there is actually a hype curve that pretty accurately illustrates what people go through. 

    As for selling ships, I can't fathom where someone feels they could get $10k of value out of any game. Either way, it's their money, so have at it, I guess. Just because it's not something that you can justify in your mind doesn't mean it's criminal. There is plenty of snake oil for sale that I can't understand either, but it's somehow still allowed to be sold. 

    As far as delivery goes, I would have preferred to see a phased release, similar to what ED is doing, but whatever, I guess they're going to take some heat up-front to do what they want to do. As far as your disbelief, I think it's reasonable to say that not everything will be delivered. Do you feel like the core game is something that will be delivered, though? It seems like gamers are very sensitive around what's delivered for some games and less concerned about what's delivered for others, and that generally seems proportionate to how critical they are of the game. Could just be me, but that's just something I've observed. 
    Ohhh, I think the core game, the one initially promised will be delivered, good or not. However, the initially promised game has very little in common with the behemoth Roberts is selling right now. Roberts is selling his wildest and most ambitious dream. And there is nothing wrong with that besides the quite obvious fact that he is not selling it as a dream but as a game he will actually deliver.

    Phased release seems like the way to go but will take such a tremendous amount of time with all the stuff being promised that I can see the game running out of steam before 25% of its features have been added, if that even happens. But like I said before, I hope I am wrong, I just don't think I am.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    lahnmir said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    lahnmir said:
    Having read through the Kotaku articles I find them to be a pretty decent piece of 'objective' journalism, as far as objective goes of course. I like the inclusion of Derek Smart and the 24 year old feud exposing big flaws in both Smarts AND Roberts character. Around here most just point at Smart because that is the easy thing to do.

    As for SC? I lost all sympathy when I read about ship debt. Selling virtual ships for a game that does not exist yet is dubious. Selling ships that have not even been designed yet for a game that does not exist yet borders on criminal imo.

    Roberts has never delivered everything he has promised in any of his games, why SC might be different is a mystery to me. Why people act like he can pull it of and heavily defend it is an even bigger mystery, are people that starved for a decent space sim that they are humping the hype train like no tomorrow?

    The future will tell but I think a lot of people are going to be very disappointed. And I ain't talking levels of SotA disappointment either...... Here is to hoping I am wrong.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir


    Oh, I think that disappointment is a given. That's not an SC issue though, that's a GAMER issue. Actually, it's a human issue. There is plenty of interesting information surrounding hype and there is actually a hype curve that pretty accurately illustrates what people go through. 

    As for selling ships, I can't fathom where someone feels they could get $10k of value out of any game. Either way, it's their money, so have at it, I guess. Just because it's not something that you can justify in your mind doesn't mean it's criminal. There is plenty of snake oil for sale that I can't understand either, but it's somehow still allowed to be sold. 

    As far as delivery goes, I would have preferred to see a phased release, similar to what ED is doing, but whatever, I guess they're going to take some heat up-front to do what they want to do. As far as your disbelief, I think it's reasonable to say that not everything will be delivered. Do you feel like the core game is something that will be delivered, though? It seems like gamers are very sensitive around what's delivered for some games and less concerned about what's delivered for others, and that generally seems proportionate to how critical they are of the game. Could just be me, but that's just something I've observed. 
    Ohhh, I think the core game, the one initially promised will be delivered, good or not. However, the initially promised game has very little in common with the behemoth Roberts is selling right now. Roberts is selling his wildest and most ambitious dream. And there is nothing wrong with that besides the quite obvious fact that he is not selling it as a dream but as a game he will actually deliver.

    Phased release seems like the way to go but will take such a tremendous amount of time with all the stuff being promised that I can see the game running out of steam before 25% of its features have been added, if that even happens. But like I said before, I hope I am wrong, I just don't think I am.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir

    Yeah, I think that I would want what his wildest dreams are, but the realist in me says that it's just too big to do at one time. How do you eat an elephant, right? Either way, Citizen Con is this weekend, so I'm trying not to let my mind be blown until Monday when all the videos from that are out. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • MinscMinsc Member UncommonPosts: 1,345

    From here I can offset the camera to the Head rotation/position and it would be the exact same result as #1 though when the character controller lags the camera would lag with it without having to calculate all the other systems (which will multiply the lag expotentially due to having the animations and physics send over the network as well.)
    From here I can also check if the character is lagging by checking the whole systems and react before the camera already has been moved with the head - it will still move with the controller

    WTF are you talking about? All of this is done client side. Animations are never going to be sent over the network. Please give one example of a game where animation data is sent over the network. Rediculous.
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    edited October 2016
    Minsc said:

    From here I can offset the camera to the Head rotation/position and it would be the exact same result as #1 though when the character controller lags the camera would lag with it without having to calculate all the other systems (which will multiply the lag expotentially due to having the animations and physics send over the network as well.)
    From here I can also check if the character is lagging by checking the whole systems and react before the camera already has been moved with the head - it will still move with the controller

    WTF are you talking about? All of this is done client side. Animations are never going to be sent over the network. Please give one example of a game where animation data is sent over the network. Rediculous.
    Every game online with animations -- I would like not to be hit when I crawl in a game and someone is seeing me still standing (same with running, dancing, almost all other stuff) > Animation data send through network, but I guess you don't unde... well you know.

    Edit: oh I see now, you misunderstood me - not the whole animation is send through - It is the Data that something is moving > this has to be calculated. As it has impact on the position.

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,838
    Counting on Roberts to make good design decisions is disagreeing with history.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,229
    Counting on Roberts to make good design decisions is disagreeing with history.
    Ah, disagreeing with him being involved in some of the most successful and well known games of the space genre ? Don't think so.


    Have fun
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,838
    Erillion said:
    Counting on Roberts to make good design decisions is disagreeing with history.
    Ah, disagreeing with him being involved in some of the most successful and well known games of the space genre ? Don't think so.


    Have fun
    Please point out one of those games done without the oversight of Origin Systems.   Or one done within the last couple of decades.  

    The guy's reputation far exceeds his actual talents.   Except at marketing.  

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

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