Every year its another expected time for release that's 8-12 months away and it just keeps on going.
When you have to consider the scope of the game changing, the whole thing is pushed further back; SQ42 alone has grown by what? 3x more missions than it originally was meant to have? Not to talk about the expansion of gameplay elements the game faced, the motion capture goals (that only took place at 2015) and all that.
People say "oh it's 5 years and SQ42 it's not here", yet those people forgot to mention SQ42's development started in January 2014, after they opened the UK office.
Every year its another expected time for release that's 8-12 months away and it just keeps on going.
When you have to consider the scope of the game changing, the whole thing is pushed further back; SQ42 alone has grown by what? 3x more missions than it originally was meant to have? Not to talk about the expansion of gameplay elements the game faced, the motion capture goals (that only took place at 2015) and all that.
People say "oh it's 5 years and SQ42 it's not here", yet those people forgot to mention SQ42's development started in January 2014, after they opened the UK office.
Nov 2014 was the date listed on the Kickstarter as expected delivery. Look, I don't think it's a scam, I love WingCommander and enjoy Chris Robert's work (heck I even have the signed copy of the original WC game and the hat!) but sometimes you just gotta admit they screwed the pooch. No need to "defend" them over and over again. They are late. Significantly.
Let's just hope that what they deliver is WORTH the wait.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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At this point their is no defending CR/CIG and how they have totally mismanaged this project. The massive amounts of money put into this game for years and what do we have to show for it? Don't answer that. It's wasted bandwidth and strain on your keyboard.
The results are in folks: CR and family are the bane of their own vision. This latest Citizencon should have been his Austerlitz. Instead it may have been his Waterloo.
This is coming from a backer and someone who has defended SC here and elsewhere for years. No more.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Seriously if all they were doing, was the game they presented at KS back in 2012, it would easily be out by now, but here's the thing... I wouldn't have backed SC, if that's all SC was, i backed what it shaped into and its direction today.
It's a complex problem for them obviously, due who expected and backed that 500K game, VS who backed the game as it stands today. For me, I can't say it is overdue for 2 years, I backed the later.
I guess you can understand what I mean. So I guess, we backed different things.
So then it's safe to assume you saying they already made an announcement was in fact a lie and you were overblowing my comment then?
No... No... No.. When you announce a date you won't officially announce a delay when the possibility of meet the deadline exists (and this was transmitted on the beginning of this year), some companies would play safe and announce delays early to give a "margin of error", others don't and announce them close to the deadline. The lie was the lie as the lie did not exist on the first place.
Lol or if you're the most transparent game developer ever then you would announce a delay as soon as shit started to hit the fan as opposed to dangling the carrot in front of fans for as long as possible in order to keep getting them opening their wallets
Lol or if you're the most transparent game developer ever then you would announce a delay as soon as shit started to hit the fan
So you should announce a delay the moment anything doesn't go as you planned? Even if the date is still the internal deadline for your project's development?
You have both cases on industry really, some games are delayed very close to release, others don't, more often the first than the later.
They (CR pretty much) eventually learned with the mistakes of frequently giving dates that end unmet, what means today neither SC, neither SQ42, not even the next update for the Alpha does have a release date.
It is strange they have all the news letters and videos updates coming out regularly to update everyone but the delays are held back like they are. Why have so many different types of updates which often repeat themselves yet keep things like reworking, delays, and re-updating content a secret like it's something wrong?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
@Octagon7711 I don't think they ever communicated well the problems, the developing struggles they went were not. (yet they did transpire anyway)
Only recently they finally opened up about Star Marine and explained what happened. While we knew they were refactoring code, and all that, they never actually went in-depth about it and admitted to the mistakes they made until recently.
Now refactoring and re-updating kept a secret? You'll hear about that quite often actually.
Seriously if all they were doing, was the game they presented at KS back in 2012, it would easily be out by now, but here's the thing... I wouldn't have backed SC, if that's all SC was, i backed what it shaped into and its direction today.
It's a complex problem for them obviously, due who expected and backed that 500K game, VS who backed the game as it stands today. For me, I can't say it is overdue for 2 years, I backed the later.
I guess you can understand what I mean. So I guess, we backed different things.
But I DID back that game. I didn't tell them to try and make this new technical revolution. All I want is my damn Squadron 42 game and the mission disk as promised.
The problem is not really complex. Say what you mean and do what you say. It really IS that simple. The issues only creep in when you start to change what you originally said and promised.
Honestly, fans always do more damage than trolls in these instances because they always keep arguing against self-evident points. The game is now 2 years late. Any response other than "You are right, I just hope it's worth the wait now" is just wasted typing.
A
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The problem is not really complex. Say what you mean and do what you say. It really IS that simple. The issues only creep in when you start to change what you originally said and promised.
Oh the problem IS complex alright.
This community as a clear separation on original and current backers (allow me to put it that way), that try to constantly push the game on different directions.
End of the day what caused that "technical revolution" was very much supported by the majority of the backers, it wouldn't have happened if they were against it, and so it began!
It goes to one extent that I would agree and defend that CIG to allow and give opportunity to all the early backers that were given the 2014 release date and expected the older scope, to get they money back and put the community on the same page at once.
The problem is not really complex. Say what you mean and do what you say. It really IS that simple. The issues only creep in when you start to change what you originally said and promised.
Oh the problem IS complex alright.
This community as a clear separation on original and current backers (allow me to put it that way), that try to constantly push the game on different directions.
End of the day what caused that "technical revolution" was very much supported by the majority of the backers, it wouldn't have happened if they were against it, and so it began!
It goes to one extent that I would agree and defend that CIG to allow and give opportunity to all the early backers that were given the 2014 release date and expected the older scope, to get they money back and put the community on the same page at once.
The problem is not really complex. Say what you mean and do what you say. It really IS that simple. The issues only creep in when you start to change what you originally said and promised.
Oh the problem IS complex alright.
This community as a clear separation on original and current backers (allow me to put it that way), that try to constantly push the game on different directions.
End of the day what caused that "technical revolution" was very much supported by the majority of the backers, it wouldn't have happened if they were against it, and so it began!
1) There are 1.5M 'StarCitizens' listed on the website. You sure that "the majority" of those folks support all the changes? Or is it the low thousands that are most involved on the forums?
2) If a company decides to change a product they should directly notify the customer and ideally offer that person a few options for resolution, one of which would be a refund. If a company sells me a box of Oranges but later decides to ship an entire Fruit Basket 2 years (and counting!) late I think it's only fair to offer some sort of compensation/cancellation option.
Again. You should simply move on from this point and hope for a good product to be the end deliverable. Continuing these discussions does nothing but further tarnish the game's perception.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Every year its another expected time for release that's 8-12 months away and it just keeps on going.
SQ42 alone has grown by what? 3x more missions than it originally was meant to have?
SQ42 having 50 missions was a 4.5 million stretch goal they hit back in November of 2012. Are you saying it will now include 150 missions?
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
End of the day what caused that "technical revolution" was very much supported by the majority of the backers, it wouldn't have happened if they were against it, and so it began!
The majority of backers dont even read the official forum or watch the PR videos being made from CIG. How can you justify saying that the majority of backers support anything when most dont voice an opinion on anything about the game?
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
1) There are 1.5M 'StarCitizens' listed on the website. You sure that "the majority" of those folks support all the changes? Or is it the low thousands that are most involved on the forums?
2) If a company decides to change a product they should directly notify the customer and ideally offer that person a few options for resolution, one of which would be a refund. If a company sells me a box of Oranges but later decides to ship an entire Fruit Basket 2 years (and counting!) late I think it's only fair to offer some sort of compensation/cancellation option.
Again. You should simply move on from this point and hope for a good product to be the end deliverable. Continuing these discussions does nothing but further tarnish the game's perception.
1) The registered people or the +500K backers? Even though it is pretty clear the majority is the silent majority, obviously anybody who gets involved in discussion even are part of the minority, on both sides.
Yet what I am referring to, is especially to the votes that CIG used to continue the Crowdfund and the strech goals, wouldn't you remember that one?
2) I do agree with that, the original backers of this game the ones who wouldn't agree with the current standing, direction and scope should have the right to get a refund and stop being involved with the project, what changed on Star Citizen since then DOES justify that.
As for your last sentence that is nothing, I mean on the global picture of this game development and success, it's not going to be forum discussions on random internet websites that are going to decide or even influence whenever happens. End of the day this is just noise.
SQ42 having 50 missions was a 4.5 million stretch goal they hit back in November of 2012. Are you saying it will now include 150 missions?
Original SQ42, 20 missions wasn't it?
3x20 = 60
Talonsin said: The majority of backers dont even read the official forum or watch the PR videos being made from CIG. How can you justify saying that the majority of backers support anything when most dont voice an opinion on anything about the game?
Oh well blame that! Everybody has a voice yet only a minority uses it. Just look at democracy, it's usually a minority that takes the decision in the name of the majority, does that make it invalid? It's a rather grey area to even attempt to make points on isn't it?
End of the day what caused that "technical revolution" was very much supported by the majority of the backers, it wouldn't have happened if they were against it, and so it began!
The majority of backers dont even read the official forum or watch the PR videos being made from CIG. How can you justify saying that the majority of backers support anything when most dont voice an opinion on anything about the game?
It fits his narrative. I'm sure if we dug up the CIG poll it would be a couple hundred voting at best but it sounds a hell of a lot better in an argument if you say "the majority of backers"
1) The registered people or the +500K backers? Even though it is pretty clear the majority is the silent majority, obviously anybody who gets involved in discussion even are part of the minority, on both sides.
Yet what I am referring to, is especially to the votes that CIG used to continue the Crowdfund and the strech goals, wouldn't you remember that one?
Can you link me to this poll? I'd love to see how many of the 1.5M Star Citizens voted...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Can you link me to this poll? I'd love to see how many of the 1.5M Star Citizens voted...
This was back from 2013, who knows how many backers the game had then but the poll was there.
The goals kept going, kept being met. Of course, back then people were happy about this, give me more stretch goals and the party continues! So they did it, the community supported ii by making the campaign a big success it was and here we are today.
Only after the delays started to hit one after the other is when some people started looking back at the whole scope creep of the project. A massive failure on CR's side was not making clear that much would take that much more time to create. --'
And Erin Roberts on that kotaku article said something that hit on this, when he says that Roberts hired a TON of outsourcing companies to pump up development at full speed and it became pretty obvious after some time that was not going to happen.
This was back from 2013, who knows how many backers the game had then but the poll was there.
The goals kept going, kept being met. Of course, back then people were happy about this, give me more stretch goals and the party continues! So they did it, the community supported ii by making the campaign a big success it was and here we are today.
Only after the delays started to hit one after the other is when some people started looking back at the whole scope creep of the project. A massive failure on CR's side was not making clear that much would take that much more time to create. --'
And Erin Roberts on that kotaku article said something that hit on this, when he says that Roberts hired a TON of outsourcing companies to pump up development at full speed and it became pretty obvious after some time that was not going to happen.
beat me to it.
Just looking at the different goals shows them getting around 20 - 30k votes per poll. Think it's fair to say that shitton of people keep up-to-date
Can you link me to this poll? I'd love to see how many of the 1.5M Star Citizens voted...
This was back from 2013, who knows how many backers the game had then but the poll was there.
The goals kept going, kept being met. Of course, back then people were happy about this, give me more stretch goals and the party continues! So they did it, the community supported ii by making the campaign a big success it was and here we are today.
Only after the delays started to hit one after the other is when some people started looking back at the whole scope creep of the project. A massive failure on CR's side was not making clear that much would take that much more time to create. --'
And Erin Roberts on that kotaku article said something that hit on this, when he says that Roberts hired a TON of outsourcing companies to pump up development at full speed and it became pretty obvious after some time that was not going to happen.
20k out of 1.5M. OOOOOKAY.
Again. All that is needed is to say 'yeah they messed up and are now 2 years past their promised date'.
then we can just wait and hope for a good product. Trying to justify delays at this point is just silly. It is what it is... but it's something they should just apologize for, offer refunds.. and move on.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Okay this needs to be clarified. There's no 1.5M backers, SC has over 500K far last info from Turbulent on it, 1.5M accounts. And second, you're looking at those numbers, 3 years ago (considering the poll's date).
At your last point, end of the day they can't do anything about that but move forward, we could just keep throwing rocks at them about it every single day (as some do) but no good will ever come from that.
Comments
People say "oh it's 5 years and SQ42 it's not here", yet those people forgot to mention SQ42's development started in January 2014, after they opened the UK office.
Let's just hope that what they deliver is WORTH the wait.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
At this point their is no defending CR/CIG and how they have totally mismanaged this project. The massive amounts of money put into this game for years and what do we have to show for it? Don't answer that. It's wasted bandwidth and strain on your keyboard.
The results are in folks: CR and family are the bane of their own vision. This latest Citizencon should have been his Austerlitz. Instead it may have been his Waterloo.
This is coming from a backer and someone who has defended SC here and elsewhere for years. No more.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
It's a complex problem for them obviously, due who expected and backed that 500K game, VS who backed the game as it stands today. For me, I can't say it is overdue for 2 years, I backed the later.
I guess you can understand what I mean. So I guess, we backed different things.
You have both cases on industry really, some games are delayed very close to release, others don't, more often the first than the later.
They (CR pretty much) eventually learned with the mistakes of frequently giving dates that end unmet, what means today neither SC, neither SQ42, not even the next update for the Alpha does have a release date.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Only recently they finally opened up about Star Marine and explained what happened. While we knew they were refactoring code, and all that, they never actually went in-depth about it and admitted to the mistakes they made until recently.
Now refactoring and re-updating kept a secret? You'll hear about that quite often actually.
The problem is not really complex. Say what you mean and do what you say. It really IS that simple. The issues only creep in when you start to change what you originally said and promised.
Honestly, fans always do more damage than trolls in these instances because they always keep arguing against self-evident points. The game is now 2 years late. Any response other than "You are right, I just hope it's worth the wait now" is just wasted typing.
A
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This community as a clear separation on original and current backers (allow me to put it that way), that try to constantly push the game on different directions.
End of the day what caused that "technical revolution" was very much supported by the majority of the backers, it wouldn't have happened if they were against it, and so it began!
It goes to one extent that I would agree and defend that CIG to allow and give opportunity to all the early backers that were given the 2014 release date and expected the older scope, to get they money back and put the community on the same page at once.
2) If a company decides to change a product they should directly notify the customer and ideally offer that person a few options for resolution, one of which would be a refund. If a company sells me a box of Oranges but later decides to ship an entire Fruit Basket 2 years (and counting!) late I think it's only fair to offer some sort of compensation/cancellation option.
Again. You should simply move on from this point and hope for a good product to be the end deliverable. Continuing these discussions does nothing but further tarnish the game's perception.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
1) The registered people or the +500K backers? Even though it is pretty clear the majority is the silent majority, obviously anybody who gets involved in discussion even are part of the minority, on both sides.
Yet what I am referring to, is especially to the votes that CIG used to continue the Crowdfund and the strech goals, wouldn't you remember that one?
2) I do agree with that, the original backers of this game the ones who wouldn't agree with the current standing, direction and scope should have the right to get a refund and stop being involved with the project, what changed on Star Citizen since then DOES justify that.
As for your last sentence that is nothing, I mean on the global picture of this game development and success, it's not going to be forum discussions on random internet websites that are going to decide or even influence whenever happens. End of the day this is just noise.
3x20 = 60
Oh well blame that! Everybody has a voice yet only a minority uses it.
Just look at democracy, it's usually a minority that takes the decision in the name of the majority, does that make it invalid? It's a rather grey area to even attempt to make points on isn't it?
This is under 4 million stretch goal.
Doesn't look like you are being very informed. For a game that barely has 1 planet this is a freaking catastrophe.
What a circle-jerk attempt at twisting what I said...
If your objective is to humiliate / attack me with this, just try a bit harder please.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The goals kept going, kept being met. Of course, back then people were happy about this, give me more stretch goals and the party continues! So they did it, the community supported ii by making the campaign a big success it was and here we are today.
Only after the delays started to hit one after the other is when some people started looking back at the whole scope creep of the project. A massive failure on CR's side was not making clear that much would take that much more time to create. --'
And Erin Roberts on that kotaku article said something that hit on this, when he says that Roberts hired a TON of outsourcing companies to pump up development at full speed and it became pretty obvious after some time that was not going to happen.
Just looking at the different goals shows them getting around 20 - 30k votes per poll. Think it's fair to say that shitton of people keep up-to-date
Again. All that is needed is to say 'yeah they messed up and are now 2 years past their promised date'.
then we can just wait and hope for a good product. Trying to justify delays at this point is just silly. It is what it is... but it's something they should just apologize for, offer refunds.. and move on.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
At your last point, end of the day they can't do anything about that but move forward, we could just keep throwing rocks at them about it every single day (as some do) but no good will ever come from that.