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Kinks in the Communication

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  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,322
    edited October 2016
    pantaro said:

    Sovrath said:


    Archlyte said:


    Dakeru said:

    All you need to know about this company is the way Caspian keeps phrasing stuff to get vague meanings.

    This "$900k was all we needed from Kickstarter to get the game done, not that it's all we'd needed” is a pretty good example.

    Well as I said in another thread - there is no AAA game but at least some people have AAA teeth now.


    At this point I think that the future of CoE is looking grim. It's hard to come back from a PR faux pas like this even with a great product. Not having a product in a reasonable time frame will not help. Repopulation is feeling very similar, with the original staff probably having had kids go off to college and what not with the game not yet released. 

    WoW may have actually killed the MMORPG genre back in 2003/4 but know one knew it yet. 


    They might be able to rebound if they had a better "front man" to address the community. But they don't.

    They have this guy who seems confrontational and we all know how people positively respond to confrontational people.



    one of the big reasons i stepped away from their kickstarter i seen how he was speaking to people on these forums when they were critical of anything they did. imagine me getting treated like that then i'm supposed to give you my money ha! not gonna happen homie!
    Thing is, this way of them responding to the community has always been like that though. Especially when they were having problems with their site and shop. "We can't get anything done with people being so negative" or something like that. I mean, you're (referring to SBS) a company for crying out loud or trying to be at least. Offering a professional response, such as "due to technical issues, we have to delay these features" etc. If they are always going to react this way professionally and not even communicate properly in the proper places, how can they handle managing a long term project like an mmorpg post launch? Its just not possible. The future of this title is too grim even if it miraculously gets released.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,303
    edited October 2016
    MoonChaser said:
    New Guy posted a lot of stuff... SNIP
    1.  Welcome to MMORPG.COM  hope you stick around long after this game and become part of the community

    2.  Has the actual risk increased?  No... BUT...

    If people were not aware that in addition to the 900k they needed to raise at least 2-3 Million more then the risk level they used to judge their pledge was not correct.  And since this was not included on the Kickstarter page, and since they even talked about using money over 900k on stretch goals, that is 100% on the company and 0% on the backers.  Nobody should have to comb forums for random posts by a developer for something like that.

    If I get in a taxi and the driver is drunk but I don't know, telling me he's drunk does not change my actual risk of an accident, but if I know he's drunk BEFORE I get in the car with him I can make an informed choice that the risk level is too high for me.  

    So the "perceived risk" argument they keep making is utterly silly.

    Again, if they really feel everyone knew this then there would be no harm in reopening refunds for a 2 week period.  
    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,322
    MoonChaser said:
    New Guy posted a lot of stuff... SNIP
    1.  Welcome to MMORPG.COM  hope you stick around long after this game and become part of the community

    2.  Has the actual risk increased?  No... BUT...

    If people were not aware that in addition to the 900k they needed to raise at least 2-3 Million more then the risk level they used to judge their pledge was not correct.  And since this was not included on the Kickstarter page, and since they even talked about using money over 900k on stretch goals, that is 100% on the company and 0% on the backers.  Nobody should have to comb forums for random posts by a developer for something like that.

    If I get in a taxi and the driver is drunk but I don't know, telling me he's drunk does not change my actual risk of an accident, but if I know he's drunk BEFORE I get in the car with him I can make an informed choice that the risk level is too high for me.  

    So the "perceived risk" argument they keep making is utterly silly.

    Again, if they really feel everyone knew this then there would be no harm in reopening refunds for a 2 week period.  
    I'll try and summarize their refund policy on their KS page updated a few days ago. Pretty much they made a system that they dont know how to properly manage and so they dont want to issue refunds due to having to figure out the said system they made.....

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soulboundstudios/chronicles-of-elyria-epic-story-mmorpg-with-aging/posts/1691859?ref=backer_project_update

    They can't configure a proper backer reward/refund system but they can make an mmorpg. In the event that the game doesn't get made there's always these reassuring words:

    "Finally, 'No refund' brings with it a stigma of additional risk. But of course, we'll do just as our competitors are doing. In the event that Soulbound Studios is, for some reason, unable to complete development due to a lack of resources, we'll make available our balance sheet so backers can see how the money was spent."


  • MitaraMitara Member UncommonPosts: 755
    Despite all the troubles. The game sounds too good, not to wish them well.
  • Zarkin86Zarkin86 Member UncommonPosts: 122
    i cant believe people are placing their hopes into this game. all games are sugar and honey before release. have you learned nothing in all these years? you really thougt some millions are enough for an mmo?
  • TheRabidsmurfTheRabidsmurf Member UncommonPosts: 146
    Halfway already. Bunch of senseless,uninvolved, naysaying about a game lots of people would be afraid to play. Yes games fail, some succeed. Not a month in development people salivate to start grinding gears and hype-anti-hype.
  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,635
    Damn Tim you could be a political editorial writer. IMO they intentionally made it confusing hence why I backed and pulled out twice, when you say we only need $900k to make a basic completed game and anything over that $900k will fill out the game then by God they should be held accountable to create the basic COMPLETED game for the $900k they stated it would be done for.
  • ThwaiteThwaite Member UncommonPosts: 83

    pantaro said:



    Sovrath said:




    Archlyte said:




    Dakeru said:


    All you need to know about this company is the way Caspian keeps phrasing stuff to get vague meanings.

    This "$900k was all we needed from Kickstarter to get the game done, not that it's all we'd needed” is a pretty good example.

    Well as I said in another thread - there is no AAA game but at least some people have AAA teeth now.




    At this point I think that the future of CoE is looking grim. It's hard to come back from a PR faux pas like this even with a great product. Not having a product in a reasonable time frame will not help. Repopulation is feeling very similar, with the original staff probably having had kids go off to college and what not with the game not yet released. 

    WoW may have actually killed the MMORPG genre back in 2003/4 but know one knew it yet. 




    They might be able to rebound if they had a better "front man" to address the community. But they don't.

    They have this guy who seems confrontational and we all know how people positively respond to confrontational people.






    one of the big reasons i stepped away from their kickstarter i seen how he was speaking to people on these forums when they were critical of anything they did. imagine me getting treated like that then i'm supposed to give you my money ha! not gonna happen homie!



    Never once, did I think he was confrontational. Informative, direct, and a passion for a game he and his team are designing. People are too emotional with thin skin these days. Sorry, not everyone gets a trophy for their good ideas. DEVs who are open with the community get slammed for not having immediate answers or bending every time some fart-box with ADHD gives them their good idea fairy option. Some DEVs never open the door during development and tell the community to wait and play what you get, cough, blizzard. But people rally behind them like a daily resurrection of christ.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,303



    Anyone interested in a genuine conversation about the status of Chronicles of Elyria is better off on their official forum.  There's a lot more information over there and a lot less ignorant speculation than you'll find over here.
    I agree that anyone really interested in the game should visit their forums.  I think however that "ignorant speculation" can be found everywhere.  As a matter of fact I think it's even more prevalent over there.  I mean the whole premise is that this company that only kickstarted 25-33% of it's future needs is going to launch a no wipe headstart in about 12 months...  and then a feature complete full launch 90 days later.

    That seems utterly ludicrous to me and most folks but if you go visit those forums it's chanted like a mantra.

    So yeah... "ignorant speculation" can be found all over.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • FusionFusion Member UncommonPosts: 1,398
    People still pledge on kickstarter lol.
    http://neocron-game.com/ - now totally F2P no cash-shops or micro transactions at all.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    OP do they pay you for be biased like that ?? we only need 900k ''from kickstarter'' to create the games... hohohoho guys we told that only that we need for create the games ''FROM KICKSTARTER'' we are not liar trust us now we ask we need 3 millions ''from now'' to keep promise the games, but ''from now'' maybe that not enough finish the games we will ask for more, until no one give us money scam 101 lol fuck them what a bunch of scammer who use twist words now : “We've been very transparent from the beginning that $900k was all we needed from Kickstarter to get the game done, not that it's all we'd needed.”

    LOL someone please sue them, they are againts the rules of kickstarter too
    they started use the terms : minimally viable game MINIMALLY viable features games ... in 6 years ( honestly im thinking nothing will ever releases ) they will not get the 3 millions more ( i hope peoples are not that stupid but peoples prove me wrong each times... ) im thinking that just a pure scams at this points
    Come on, there is a difference between being an optimist and a crook. More then one AAA game became far more expensive then the devs thought as well (WAR anyone? cut out a third of it's planned content).

    Of course, I understand if the backers aren't thrilled but to me it just seems like they f*** up.
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,322
    Thwaite said:

    pantaro said:



    Sovrath said:




    Archlyte said:




    Dakeru said:


    All you need to know about this company is the way Caspian keeps phrasing stuff to get vague meanings.

    This "$900k was all we needed from Kickstarter to get the game done, not that it's all we'd needed” is a pretty good example.

    Well as I said in another thread - there is no AAA game but at least some people have AAA teeth now.




    At this point I think that the future of CoE is looking grim. It's hard to come back from a PR faux pas like this even with a great product. Not having a product in a reasonable time frame will not help. Repopulation is feeling very similar, with the original staff probably having had kids go off to college and what not with the game not yet released. 

    WoW may have actually killed the MMORPG genre back in 2003/4 but know one knew it yet. 




    They might be able to rebound if they had a better "front man" to address the community. But they don't.

    They have this guy who seems confrontational and we all know how people positively respond to confrontational people.






    one of the big reasons i stepped away from their kickstarter i seen how he was speaking to people on these forums when they were critical of anything they did. imagine me getting treated like that then i'm supposed to give you my money ha! not gonna happen homie!



    Never once, did I think he was confrontational. Informative, direct, and a passion for a game he and his team are designing. People are too emotional with thin skin these days. Sorry, not everyone gets a trophy for their good ideas. DEVs who are open with the community get slammed for not having immediate answers or bending every time some fart-box with ADHD gives them their good idea fairy option. Some DEVs never open the door during development and tell the community to wait and play what you get, cough, blizzard. But people rally behind them like a daily resurrection of christ.
    Comparing a development company that publicly asks for money to one that doesn't need public funding to develop something? What?
  • fodell54fodell54 Member RarePosts: 859

    pantaro said:



    Sovrath said:




    Archlyte said:




    Dakeru said:


    All you need to know about this company is the way Caspian keeps phrasing stuff to get vague meanings.

    This "$900k was all we needed from Kickstarter to get the game done, not that it's all we'd needed” is a pretty good example.

    Well as I said in another thread - there is no AAA game but at least some people have AAA teeth now.




    At this point I think that the future of CoE is looking grim. It's hard to come back from a PR faux pas like this even with a great product. Not having a product in a reasonable time frame will not help. Repopulation is feeling very similar, with the original staff probably having had kids go off to college and what not with the game not yet released. 

    WoW may have actually killed the MMORPG genre back in 2003/4 but know one knew it yet. 




    They might be able to rebound if they had a better "front man" to address the community. But they don't.

    They have this guy who seems confrontational and we all know how people positively respond to confrontational people.






    one of the big reasons i stepped away from their kickstarter i seen how he was speaking to people on these forums when they were critical of anything they did. imagine me getting treated like that then i'm supposed to give you my money ha! not gonna happen homie!



    Agreed. The guy is pretty much an asshole to potential customers. When Tree of Saviors came out I saw the same guy posting on Facebook how the game sucked and was technically flawed. I wish I would have saved the link, it was very telling. Not a good PR move to criticize other games/companies in public when your company has never delivered.

    Pretty much everything about this company puts a bad taste in my mouth. It seems very reminiscent of Greed Monger, that's for sure. I'm just waiting for them to release that they’ve hired on JamesP or that he’s been working in the background the whole time.
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,796
    fodell54 said:
     I'm just waiting for them to release that they’ve hired on JamesP or that he’s been working in the background the whole time.
    In all fairness, James was actually the fool believing that it could be done so he kept working for his douchebag boss and took most of the flag for him.

    Obviously that doesn't change anything but I prefer the honest fool over the dishonest snakes oil seller.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • HolyAvengerOneHolyAvengerOne Member UncommonPosts: 691
    edited October 2016
    TimEisen said:


    Nice Tim, but I think you forgot to quote your source... you basically rewrote the post I replied to you over here on MOP : http://fyre.it/Lsg3kSJY.4



    Nice work, couldnt have said it better myself! My column was due Wednesday and I didnt see your reply until just a few minutes ago. Contrary to what most people that stumbled into my work might think we are due at minimum half a day out for proof reading. I turn in 1.5 days out. Yes, shocking the version you see is the edited version, you can imagine how bad the original is! As I've done in the past I would have sited you if I did use it. I'd say if anythign this means we should probably be the tag team presidents of the world as we surely have the minds for it!
    No, right, actually : yes! You could have said it better -- and you did! Hehe.

    Tbh, although your claim is far more difficult to prove than mine is, I'm not getting my panties in a bunch over this, at the end of the day, so whatever :) It just made me think that maybe I should be writing a blog, lol ;)
  • shalissarshalissar Member UncommonPosts: 509


    This game will never come out.. You can quote me on that in a few years when people are crying that it is not out.



    Me and several other people on these exact forums said that there was NO way they could creature what they where selling on a $900k budget. Not with the small team they had. Even another $2-$3 mil will not give these jokers / conartist the ability to create said game.



    They knew full well that if they put on kickstarter that this was the $900k was to fund a prototype to pitch to investors that very VERY few people would have put money toward it. They delibertly left that wording out of it to get the money.



    Now months later they have very little to nothing to show for it and they are back asking for more money. Where is that prototype MMO? Why did it not get the investers to finish out that money? Why do they need to ask for even more money?



    No invester worth a dam is going to touch this with there millions. Very basic research will tell you this is an extremly high risk investment with very low odds of return. When very large companies dedicated to making MMO's and people that have WAY WAY more knowledge in the working of MMO's then these clowns can not pull of MMO's of half the scope with $100m + budgets. What makes you think these few people with little to no MMO development knowledge with a team only slightly larger then a one man show compared to these larger companies. It is all pipedreams. I bet a few of these devs are sitting in nice new cards, houses and offices.



    Kickstarter projects should have to show where every penny of the money goes to its backers. Should be a requirement to show on the kickstarter page exactly where the money is / was used and what was purchased.



    $900k+ and nothing they have shown couldn't be done with stock Unreal 4 and some store bought assets + a canned kit website.



    I hope this sets the precedent perpetually pining vets need to move on with their damn lives.
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Loke666 said:
     
     
    Anyone who actually thinks this is a scam isn't thinking very clearly.  These guys have done multiple online video interviews.  There's 16 of them and they've managed to embezzle what? Just shy of 1.5 million?  I don't think that's enough money for 16 people to relocate to the planet Mars, which is what they'd have to do after trying to pull off this master plan of theirs to defraud gamers, lol.

    I mean, I understand being critical of these guys and I understand the skepticism but the whole scam angle on this one is really, really stupid.
    It is and it isn't. Yes, you are correct that the pieces don't fit for the great train robbery. But on the other hand tension is high for some reason on this issue, and people seem to be treating 15 or 30 dollars as a holy deposit these days. F2P, Kickstarter, and Crowdfunding are the new versions of selling indulgences. So a mob of people will see something like this as a problem. Is that logical? No. Is it predictable human behavior? Yes. So my statement that things are looking grim is based on what I see as a growing emotional response to what SBS is doing. 

    As far as going to their forum, you will very much find it to be a expected (and justified) fan club over there. Your suggestion about the tone of discussion is accurate, but of course it is going to be less positive when you inject people who are not staked, or actively dislike the project. Why would you be on the official forum for an unreleased game if you have nothing at stake in it? I would find the casual observer with no opinion to be a weird sort of person to be on that forum. On the other hand, over here there is a glut of opinions and flourishes in posts. I can't imagine that saving anyone from the information here is a worthwhile pursuit, as if they are so easily swayed, then their opinion is an ephemeral thing worth very little, and not at all having solidity or true bearing.


    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,769
    edited October 2016
    Archlyte said:
    Loke666 said:
     
     
    Anyone who actually thinks this is a scam isn't thinking very clearly.  These guys have done multiple online video interviews.  There's 16 of them and they've managed to embezzle what? Just shy of 1.5 million?  I don't think that's enough money for 16 people to relocate to the planet Mars, which is what they'd have to do after trying to pull off this master plan of theirs to defraud gamers, lol.

    I mean, I understand being critical of these guys and I understand the skepticism but the whole scam angle on this one is really, really stupid.
    It is and it isn't. Yes, you are correct that the pieces don't fit for the great train robbery. But on the other hand tension is high for some reason on this issue, and people seem to be treating 15 or 30 dollars as a holy deposit these days. F2P, Kickstarter, and Crowdfunding are the new versions of selling indulgences. So a mob of people will see something like this as a problem. Is that logical? No. Is it predictable human behavior? Yes. So my statement that things are looking grim is based on what I see as a growing emotional response to what SBS is doing. 

    As far as going to their forum, you will very much find it to be a expected (and justified) fan club over there. Your suggestion about the tone of discussion is accurate, but of course it is going to be less positive when you inject people who are not staked, or actively dislike the project. Why would you be on the official forum for an unreleased game if you have nothing at stake in it? I would find the casual observer with no opinion to be a weird sort of person to be on that forum. On the other hand, over here there is a glut of opinions and flourishes in posts. I can't imagine that saving anyone from the information here is a worthwhile pursuit, as if they are so easily swayed, then their opinion is an ephemeral thing worth very little, and not at all having solidity or true bearing.


    I disagree.

    People aren't "amused" because there has been a few mmo projects that seemed to be going fine then all of sudden "money isn't there, we're looking for funding" and then the project falters.

    I don't think this is a scam at all. I do think that these guys have absolutely no idea how to communicate.

    As far as people giving 15 or 30 dollars and thinking it's a "holy deposit" that's pretty dismissive on your part. First of all, you don't know how much money people have given. I'm sure some gave a few dollars and others several hundred. Who knows, maybe more.

    But regardless of the amount, people are usually loathe to just throw money away or in this case, give money to something where they weren't clear about the outcome.

    If someone truly felt they were giving money to a group who seemed to think that they only needed 900k (and they got more) to finish a game and then found out that wasn't what this was for, I can easily understand them being disappointed.

    The other argument is that "people should have known better". I don't buy that either because no one really knows how far along a project is or how much money people have before kickstarter. 

    And since the whole thrust of kickstarter is that groups are supposed to use it to bring a finished product to market, one can easily see how people would accept that these guys just needed a cash infusion to do just that.

    Once again, we have a group of developers who have no idea how to interface with their customers and that is what is biting them in the butt. Well, at least on this site.

    But who knows, maybe it's a tempest in a teapot, they will get their 3 million and finish the game.






  • ZultraZultra Member UncommonPosts: 363
    God the toxicity on this thread
    Sign up for Chronicles of Elyria here don't forget to use my friend code - B4ACB3

    Join the revolutionary MMO! 
  • ZultraZultra Member UncommonPosts: 363

    Gaendric said:

    I am surprised something like this can even be an issue. KS is quite clear on these things (KS FAQs, "Kickstarter 101 - Basics"):

    "A project is a finite work with a clear goal"
    "The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project."

    There should be no maybes, "what we actually meant"s or misunderstandings. (note the "clear goal" part)
    If you are funding a prototype, the KS page should very visibly and clearly state "we are only funding a prototype."

    Anyway, hope for the backers that the devs pull a big fat rabbit out of the hat to lighten the mood.



    I'm quite happy with CoE, maybe it's just you.
    Sign up for Chronicles of Elyria here don't forget to use my friend code - B4ACB3

    Join the revolutionary MMO! 
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,796
    Zultra said:
    God the toxicity on this thread
    Zultra said:

    Gaendric said:

    I am surprised something like this can even be an issue. KS is quite clear on these things (KS FAQs, "Kickstarter 101 - Basics"):

    "A project is a finite work with a clear goal"
    "The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project."

    There should be no maybes, "what we actually meant"s or misunderstandings. (note the "clear goal" part)
    If you are funding a prototype, the KS page should very visibly and clearly state "we are only funding a prototype."

    Anyway, hope for the backers that the devs pull a big fat rabbit out of the hat to lighten the mood.



    I'm quite happy with CoE, maybe it's just you.
    Congratulations,
    You totally ignored the fact that Soulbound broke the rules of Kickstarter and deflected this with generic statements:

    'This thread is toxic'
    'Lol it's just you, I think this game is great'
    Harbinger of Fools
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