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Niantic Going to Court in Holland For Protected Beach Access

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Comments

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,171
    Torval said:
    donger56 said:
    So because people are too stupid to understand not to go into places that are closed, we need to take this to court? I guess on some level it makes sense because you can't prosecute sheep for trespassing, so maybe pokemon go players are not smart enough to be held accountable for their own actions.
    The dunes are our only protection against the northsea. We live below sea level. My house is 3.5 meter below sealevel. That's why it is protected.
    According to the article it's only off limits from 11:00pm to 7:00am so your argument makes no sense. It's okay to trample in the day but not the night? Or are you just adding in some random anecdote from another location to try and build a "me too" argument of appeal to emotion.
    No, it's protected land and they don't really want anyone there at any times. The 11-7 thing is on the streets. They want Niantic to remove Pokemon from the streets between those hours, like a Pokemon curfew.
    The the locality should pass laws punishing those who violate the statute. Is BMW liable for you driving your motorbike on the beach? They make it so easy to violate those laws. They should be sued as well. How about Nike for making shoes that can carry you across the beach without damaging your feet? Sue them too. How about Microsoft - people have obviously used Windows and fansites to coordinate these nefarious runs. Maybe people have consumed liquor before Pokemoning - let's sue the liquor company.

    Like I said, hold the offender responsible in accordance with local laws.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,331
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    Why? Why does the company have to take responsibility. Let's look at the reality here - the Pokemon aren't really there. People are using software in a manner that goes against local laws. The game even warns you at the start not to do that.

    This is just an excuse for another European Union country/gov't entity/municipality to try and milk a private business instead of holding the offender liable. There's no money in holding the offender liable, but a big internet company. Ka-ching! If The Hague was really smart they would find a way to tie Microsoft and Google antitrust lawsuits in there. Oh, and the phone maker. They're responsible too!
    Isn't the company virtually placing them there? They have no control? The thing that I find most disturbing is that they are ignoring the matter. Not even willing to talk about it.

    fuck them 

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,171
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    Why? Why does the company have to take responsibility. Let's look at the reality here - the Pokemon aren't really there. People are using software in a manner that goes against local laws. The game even warns you at the start not to do that.

    This is just an excuse for another European Union country/gov't entity/municipality to try and milk a private business instead of holding the offender liable. There's no money in holding the offender liable, but a big internet company. Ka-ching! If The Hague was really smart they would find a way to tie Microsoft and Google antitrust lawsuits in there. Oh, and the phone maker. They're responsible too!
    Isn't the company virtually placing them there? They have no control? The thing that I find most disturbing is that they are ignoring the matter. Not even willing to talk about it.

    fuck them 
    What is there to talk about? I already explained that at the beginning of the program there is a warning not to violate the privacy of others or enter unwelcome areas. If people can't obey the laws then that's on them. I've already cited several examples of how software and items could be used to violate the same thing.

    If the purpose and intent of the software was exclusively to violate privacy then I would agree with you. It's not. It's how people use the software.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 8,783
    edited September 2016
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    Why? Why does the company have to take responsibility. Let's look at the reality here - the Pokemon aren't really there. People are using software in a manner that goes against local laws. The game even warns you at the start not to do that.

    This is just an excuse for another European Union country/gov't entity/municipality to try and milk a private business instead of holding the offender liable. There's no money in holding the offender liable, but a big internet company. Ka-ching! If The Hague was really smart they would find a way to tie Microsoft and Google antitrust lawsuits in there. Oh, and the phone maker. They're responsible too!
    Isn't the company virtually placing them there? They have no control? The thing that I find most disturbing is that they are ignoring the matter. Not even willing to talk about it.

    fuck them 
    So are companies that make maps. Should it be a joint lawsuit? What about google maps?
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,331
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    I think it would be a bad precedent to set. If someone makes a program and people using it in ways that break the laws, the software creator is to blame even in part. That could stop a lot of awesome programs from being created. If I stab you, am I 100% to blame? Someone did make that knife for me.
    Its not about that.

    Its about cooperation. If an authority is telling you that your unintentionally causing damage and you don't even have respect enough to even reply?

    Who the heck do some of these companies and corporations think they are these days?

    I hope the Judge Hammers them 
    So now you can sue companies if they dont respond to you? So you should be required by law to answer every phone call, email and snail mail sent to you? Again, I see nothing but holes. 
    So if your causing damage, environmental or other. Not replying gets you off any hook. Just plug your ears and go nananana absolves you of any responsibility? 

    I'm sure the authorities in question have made more than a single attempt to contact the company.  

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,331
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    Why? Why does the company have to take responsibility. Let's look at the reality here - the Pokemon aren't really there. People are using software in a manner that goes against local laws. The game even warns you at the start not to do that.

    This is just an excuse for another European Union country/gov't entity/municipality to try and milk a private business instead of holding the offender liable. There's no money in holding the offender liable, but a big internet company. Ka-ching! If The Hague was really smart they would find a way to tie Microsoft and Google antitrust lawsuits in there. Oh, and the phone maker. They're responsible too!
    Isn't the company virtually placing them there? They have no control? The thing that I find most disturbing is that they are ignoring the matter. Not even willing to talk about it.

    fuck them 
    What is there to talk about? I already explained that at the beginning of the program there is a warning not to violate the privacy of others or enter unwelcome areas. If people can't obey the laws then that's on them. I've already cited several examples of how software and items could be used to violate the same thing.

    If the purpose and intent of the software was exclusively to violate privacy then I would agree with you. It's not. It's how people use the software.
    Tell it to the Dutch judge


    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,796
    Nanfoodle said:
    Dakeru said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Dakeru said:
    Not sure why the players are getting the blame now.
    The city officials didn't want a full ban, just more restrictions - the company kept on ignoring them.

    How else should the city react?
    Ticketing the people playing outside city bylaws. If there is a no skateboarding in the park bylaw and people break it, who gets in trouble? The guy using the skateboard or the guy who made the skateboard. Seems to me it would be the user. 
    Ticketing yeah but then they have to hire people to permanently guard the area.

    Contacting the company to ask for minor changes seems the most reasonable approach.
    So now lawmakers can contact the creator of any program to make changes to it to fit the laws of their country. Can you see where that could be a problem? The cost of software would go way up. 
    Did you seriously just say that the company's profit should have a higher priority than the law?
    Harbinger of Fools
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 8,783
    Dakeru said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Dakeru said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Dakeru said:
    Not sure why the players are getting the blame now.
    The city officials didn't want a full ban, just more restrictions - the company kept on ignoring them.

    How else should the city react?
    Ticketing the people playing outside city bylaws. If there is a no skateboarding in the park bylaw and people break it, who gets in trouble? The guy using the skateboard or the guy who made the skateboard. Seems to me it would be the user. 
    Ticketing yeah but then they have to hire people to permanently guard the area.

    Contacting the company to ask for minor changes seems the most reasonable approach.
    So now lawmakers can contact the creator of any program to make changes to it to fit the laws of their country. Can you see where that could be a problem? The cost of software would go way up. 
    Did you seriously just say that the company's profit should have a higher priority than the law?
    No, Im saying you cant make a program that follows every country's laws and city bylaws. If we started living by that, North Korea would make a lot of our games very dull. Heck just like a knife can be used to make food or murder someone. You cant stop making knives because someone may use one to kill. How this is not a user fault problem is shocking. I hate the game but every twit I see walking in circles outside my house play the game. I dont call the maker of the game and yell at them. I yell at the twit outside my house. 
  • ZombieCatZombieCat Member UncommonPosts: 55
    Nanfoodle said:
    So now you can sue companies if they dont respond to you? So you should be required by law to answer every phone call, email and snail mail sent to you? Again, I see nothing but holes. 

    I am having a hard time taking your reply to be serious.

    This is a basic step when someone/company ignores attempts at communication to resolve a dispute. I have no doubt the city in question used staff lawyers to send their requests. Ignoring letters from lawyers generally proceeds to filing a lawsuit to get the other party to respond.
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,521
    Nanfoodle said:
    Dakeru said:
    Not sure why the players are getting the blame now.
    The city officials didn't want a full ban, just more restrictions - the company kept on ignoring them.

    How else should the city react?
    Ticketing the people playing outside city bylaws. If there is a no skateboarding in the park bylaw and people break it, who gets in trouble? The guy using the skateboard or the guy who made the skateboard. Seems to me it would be the user. 
    This is not about Niantic making a skateboard.

    It's about Niantic placing orienteering checkpoints all over the place. You can't place orienteering checkpoints to protected areas.
     
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 8,783
    Vrika said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Dakeru said:
    Not sure why the players are getting the blame now.
    The city officials didn't want a full ban, just more restrictions - the company kept on ignoring them.

    How else should the city react?
    Ticketing the people playing outside city bylaws. If there is a no skateboarding in the park bylaw and people break it, who gets in trouble? The guy using the skateboard or the guy who made the skateboard. Seems to me it would be the user. 
    This is not about Niantic making a skateboard.

    It's about Niantic placing orienteering checkpoints all over the place. You can't place orienteering checkpoints to protected areas.
    Again, if I am not permitted to walk into "Area 51" I am not going to go play Pokemon there, even if a blip on a map says at Charazoid is in that direction. People should be smarter than that.
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,421
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    I think it would be a bad precedent to set. If someone makes a program and people using it in ways that break the laws, the software creator is to blame even in part. That could stop a lot of awesome programs from being created. If I stab you, am I 100% to blame? Someone did make that knife for me.
    Its not about that.

    Its about cooperation. If an authority is telling you that your unintentionally causing damage and you don't even have respect enough to even reply?

    Who the heck do some of these companies and corporations think they are these days?

    I hope the Judge Hammers them 
    So now you can sue companies if they dont respond to you? So you should be required by law to answer every phone call, email and snail mail sent to you? Again, I see nothing but holes. 
    So if your causing damage, environmental or other. Not replying gets you off any hook. Just plug your ears and go nananana absolves you of any responsibility? 

    I'm sure the authorities in question have made more than a single attempt to contact the company.  
    feh you would be surpised, send a e-mail or mail and if after a pre determined time nothing they use the law, since its free for then anyway (lets just use the tax money its not out of my pocket anyway), plus goverments are incapable of issueing anything without bias of a extremally retarded, brain dead politician who want to just get some votes and have something to say I did for the next time he ask for votes.

    serious I don't know what is worse, stupid lawsuits like these, to protect stupid people from thenselfs and not give then the reponsability for they actions, or people who trust in goverments
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,271
    edited September 2016

    donger56 said:

    So because people are too stupid to understand not to go into places that are closed, we need to take this to court? I guess on some level it makes sense because you can't prosecute sheep for trespassing, so maybe pokemon go players are not smart enough to be held accountable for their own actions.



    Actually if you read what was written they are being sued not so much because people are stupid and still go to such places but because they have been repeatedly contacted with requests for that location to be removed and have not responded.

    If i recall right they are suppose to remove locations once a request to that effect has been sent in. Also it sounds like this request should be given priority due to the nature of the problem. I am not surprised, this new type of augmented reality game is more than just sitting in the privacy of your own home playing a video and has an affect on others. Some rules and regulations need to be made to keep up with these new technologies and this is what we are seeing. These hotspots are kinda of like setting up a club or party in public areas...now while you can go have a pic nic with your family in the park commercial companies that decide to throw "beach parties" or something of that nature can't just up and do that, they have rules and regulations and probably permits to acquire...same thing should apply to these "hotspots".

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    I think it would be a bad precedent to set. If someone makes a program and people using it in ways that break the laws, the software creator is to blame even in part. That could stop a lot of awesome programs from being created. If I stab you, am I 100% to blame? Someone did make that knife for me.
    Its not about that.

    Its about cooperation. If an authority is telling you that your unintentionally causing damage and you don't even have respect enough to even reply?

    Who the heck do some of these companies and corporations think they are these days?

    I hope the Judge Hammers them 
    So now you can sue companies if they dont respond to you? So you should be required by law to answer every phone call, email and snail mail sent to you? Again, I see nothing but holes. 
    Except that isn't what happened is it, if you receive an official request and you ignore it, then the follow up is usually an enforcement order from the local constabulary, of course you could ignore them too, but, that would also be pretty stupid.
    In this case, Niantic received an official request, they ignored it, and now they are being hit by the 'enforcement' stage, if Niantic want to find holes in that, then they are going to need to get hold of some expensive lawyers a bit quick, i suggest they don't ask you for legal advice though :p
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 8,783
    Phry said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    I think it would be a bad precedent to set. If someone makes a program and people using it in ways that break the laws, the software creator is to blame even in part. That could stop a lot of awesome programs from being created. If I stab you, am I 100% to blame? Someone did make that knife for me.
    Its not about that.

    Its about cooperation. If an authority is telling you that your unintentionally causing damage and you don't even have respect enough to even reply?

    Who the heck do some of these companies and corporations think they are these days?

    I hope the Judge Hammers them 
    So now you can sue companies if they dont respond to you? So you should be required by law to answer every phone call, email and snail mail sent to you? Again, I see nothing but holes. 
    Except that isn't what happened is it, if you receive an official request and you ignore it, then the follow up is usually an enforcement order from the local constabulary, of course you could ignore them too, but, that would also be pretty stupid.
    In this case, Niantic received an official request, they ignored it, and now they are being hit by the 'enforcement' stage, if Niantic want to find holes in that, then they are going to need to get hold of some expensive lawyers a bit quick, i suggest they don't ask you for legal advice though :p
    I started this debate saying I dont know much about law lol 
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,331
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    I think it would be a bad precedent to set. If someone makes a program and people using it in ways that break the laws, the software creator is to blame even in part. That could stop a lot of awesome programs from being created. If I stab you, am I 100% to blame? Someone did make that knife for me.
    Its not about that.

    Its about cooperation. If an authority is telling you that your unintentionally causing damage and you don't even have respect enough to even reply?

    Who the heck do some of these companies and corporations think they are these days?

    I hope the Judge Hammers them 
    So now you can sue companies if they dont respond to you? So you should be required by law to answer every phone call, email and snail mail sent to you? Again, I see nothing but holes. 
    So if your causing damage, environmental or other. Not replying gets you off any hook. Just plug your ears and go nananana absolves you of any responsibility? 

    I'm sure the authorities in question have made more than a single attempt to contact the company.  
    feh you would be surpised, send a e-mail or mail and if after a pre determined time nothing they use the law, since its free for then anyway (lets just use the tax money its not out of my pocket anyway), plus goverments are incapable of issueing anything without bias of a extremally retarded, brain dead politician who want to just get some votes and have something to say I did for the next time he ask for votes.

    serious I don't know what is worse, stupid lawsuits like these, to protect stupid people from thenselfs and not give then the reponsability for they actions, or people who trust in goverments
    The whole stupid thing about this whole topic

    The local government is just looking for some cooperation to keep a sensitive area from being unintentionally damaged from a video game. They were not looking to waste tax payers money. They are being forced to from a company that couldn't even be bothered to reply.

    Flip it anyway you want it

    Niantic is in the wrong

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,171
    Vrika said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Dakeru said:
    Not sure why the players are getting the blame now.
    The city officials didn't want a full ban, just more restrictions - the company kept on ignoring them.

    How else should the city react?
    Ticketing the people playing outside city bylaws. If there is a no skateboarding in the park bylaw and people break it, who gets in trouble? The guy using the skateboard or the guy who made the skateboard. Seems to me it would be the user. 
    This is not about Niantic making a skateboard.

    It's about Niantic placing orienteering checkpoints all over the place. You can't place orienteering checkpoints to protected areas.
    Latitude and Longitude should be named in the lawsuit too and all map makers that use it on charts.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,171
    Phry said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    I think it would be a bad precedent to set. If someone makes a program and people using it in ways that break the laws, the software creator is to blame even in part. That could stop a lot of awesome programs from being created. If I stab you, am I 100% to blame? Someone did make that knife for me.
    Its not about that.

    Its about cooperation. If an authority is telling you that your unintentionally causing damage and you don't even have respect enough to even reply?

    Who the heck do some of these companies and corporations think they are these days?

    I hope the Judge Hammers them 
    So now you can sue companies if they dont respond to you? So you should be required by law to answer every phone call, email and snail mail sent to you? Again, I see nothing but holes. 
    Except that isn't what happened is it, if you receive an official request and you ignore it, then the follow up is usually an enforcement order from the local constabulary, of course you could ignore them too, but, that would also be pretty stupid.
    In this case, Niantic received an official request, they ignored it, and now they are being hit by the 'enforcement' stage, if Niantic want to find holes in that, then they are going to need to get hold of some expensive lawyers a bit quick, i suggest they don't ask you for legal advice though :p
    I didn't know you were a lawyer.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,171
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    I think it would be a bad precedent to set. If someone makes a program and people using it in ways that break the laws, the software creator is to blame even in part. That could stop a lot of awesome programs from being created. If I stab you, am I 100% to blame? Someone did make that knife for me.
    Its not about that.

    Its about cooperation. If an authority is telling you that your unintentionally causing damage and you don't even have respect enough to even reply?

    Who the heck do some of these companies and corporations think they are these days?

    I hope the Judge Hammers them 
    So now you can sue companies if they dont respond to you? So you should be required by law to answer every phone call, email and snail mail sent to you? Again, I see nothing but holes. 
    So if your causing damage, environmental or other. Not replying gets you off any hook. Just plug your ears and go nananana absolves you of any responsibility? 

    I'm sure the authorities in question have made more than a single attempt to contact the company.  
    I never said the people causing damage shouldn't be held accountable. In fact I've said the exact opposite. I have said the people causing the damage should be held accountable. That is the people actually trampling the beach.

    Unless Niantic employees are going to The Hague and trampling dunes then they didn't cause the damage. By your reasoning Apple, Google, and any smartphone maker that provides the application should also be responsible. They're selling software or devices being used to violate privacy laws. They knowingly promote the application.

    Again, this is about getting easy money. The same way the UK is going after Hello Games and NMS for publicity and public opinion, The Hague is going after low hanging fruit because the actual violators don't have money worth suing for.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,025
    People are more stupid then you give them. Most are plain zombies on the streets who walks into you/me playing this game. Happens a few times already. Getting really sick of these zombies.

    And yes Niantic can do something about this and do some research before placing pokemons in the world.


    I can't stand morons who can't walk or shop or anything without having their faces glued to their phones.  It takes everything in me to not slap and kick there phones out of their hands.
  • kishekishe Member UncommonPosts: 2,012
    The game actively encourages you to break the law by promising you rewards for doing so. thats why dutch government is within their rights to demand removal of pokestops and such from the area or ban the game from holland.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,331
    edited September 2016
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    I think it would be a bad precedent to set. If someone makes a program and people using it in ways that break the laws, the software creator is to blame even in part. That could stop a lot of awesome programs from being created. If I stab you, am I 100% to blame? Someone did make that knife for me.
    Its not about that.

    Its about cooperation. If an authority is telling you that your unintentionally causing damage and you don't even have respect enough to even reply?

    Who the heck do some of these companies and corporations think they are these days?

    I hope the Judge Hammers them 
    So now you can sue companies if they dont respond to you? So you should be required by law to answer every phone call, email and snail mail sent to you? Again, I see nothing but holes. 
    So if your causing damage, environmental or other. Not replying gets you off any hook. Just plug your ears and go nananana absolves you of any responsibility? 

    I'm sure the authorities in question have made more than a single attempt to contact the company.  
    I never said the people causing damage shouldn't be held accountable. In fact I've said the exact opposite. I have said the people causing the damage should be held accountable. That is the people actually trampling the beach.

    Unless Niantic employees are going to The Hague and trampling dunes then they didn't cause the damage. By your reasoning Apple, Google, and any smartphone maker that provides the application should also be responsible. They're selling software or devices being used to violate privacy laws. They knowingly promote the application.

    Again, this is about getting easy money. The same way the UK is going after Hello Games and NMS for publicity and public opinion, The Hague is going after low hanging fruit because the actual violators don't have money worth suing for.
    Poke mon Go is providing the reason for the people to go there. Niantic have "a" responsibility not "the" responsibility here.

    The whole "stupid" thing is that the local government is just looking for some cooperation and Niantic can't even be bothered to reply. Niantic most likely can alleviate the problem easily but they choose not to. Probably because they're worried about setting a precedence and other governments will ask for similar things. They leave the local government with no options and they're are rolling the dice on what kind of precedence might be set. They should of just cooperated nice and quietly, be a good corporate citizen.


    IMHO that is the true "Story" here

    American, Canadian, Japanese and Martian law have no relevance. Dutch law is what matters here.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,515
    edited September 2016
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    I think it would be a bad precedent to set. If someone makes a program and people using it in ways that break the laws, the software creator is to blame even in part. That could stop a lot of awesome programs from being created. If I stab you, am I 100% to blame? Someone did make that knife for me.
    Its not about that.

    Its about cooperation. If an authority is telling you that your unintentionally causing damage and you don't even have respect enough to even reply?

    Who the heck do some of these companies and corporations think they are these days?

    I hope the Judge Hammers them 
    So now you can sue companies if they dont respond to you? So you should be required by law to answer every phone call, email and snail mail sent to you? Again, I see nothing but holes. 
    So if your causing damage, environmental or other. Not replying gets you off any hook. Just plug your ears and go nananana absolves you of any responsibility? 

    I'm sure the authorities in question have made more than a single attempt to contact the company.  
    I'm not sure those "authorities" you mention have the authority to make such a request.

    Just to be very clear, the company and its product cause no harm when used responsibly, much like alchohol, firearms or dune buggys.

    If someone is using the product incorrectly, they are solely to blame, no one else.

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  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,331
    Kyleran said:
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    I think it would be a bad precedent to set. If someone makes a program and people using it in ways that break the laws, the software creator is to blame even in part. That could stop a lot of awesome programs from being created. If I stab you, am I 100% to blame? Someone did make that knife for me.
    Its not about that.

    Its about cooperation. If an authority is telling you that your unintentionally causing damage and you don't even have respect enough to even reply?

    Who the heck do some of these companies and corporations think they are these days?

    I hope the Judge Hammers them 
    So now you can sue companies if they dont respond to you? So you should be required by law to answer every phone call, email and snail mail sent to you? Again, I see nothing but holes. 
    So if your causing damage, environmental or other. Not replying gets you off any hook. Just plug your ears and go nananana absolves you of any responsibility? 

    I'm sure the authorities in question have made more than a single attempt to contact the company.  
    I'm not sure those "authorities" you mention have the authority to make such a request.
    What a sad day that would be. When a foreign corporation can tell a government to go fuck themselves over their own local environment.

    Stockholders should be careful about what they wish for.

    This matters a lot for for the generations that come after me.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,521
    Kyleran said:
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    laserit said:
    The company defiantly has to take some responsibility here. Not responding is pretty fucking rude and plain "wrong" I hope a Dutch Judge hammers them.
    I think it would be a bad precedent to set. If someone makes a program and people using it in ways that break the laws, the software creator is to blame even in part. That could stop a lot of awesome programs from being created. If I stab you, am I 100% to blame? Someone did make that knife for me.
    Its not about that.

    Its about cooperation. If an authority is telling you that your unintentionally causing damage and you don't even have respect enough to even reply?

    Who the heck do some of these companies and corporations think they are these days?

    I hope the Judge Hammers them 
    So now you can sue companies if they dont respond to you? So you should be required by law to answer every phone call, email and snail mail sent to you? Again, I see nothing but holes. 
    So if your causing damage, environmental or other. Not replying gets you off any hook. Just plug your ears and go nananana absolves you of any responsibility? 

    I'm sure the authorities in question have made more than a single attempt to contact the company.  
    I'm not sure those "authorities" you mention have the authority to make such a request.

    Just to be very clear, the company and its product cause no harm when used responsibly, much like alchohol, firearms or dune buggys.

    If someone is using the product incorrectly, they are solely to blame, no one else.
    There are plenty of laws about manufacturing and sales of alcohol, firearms and dune buggys.

    How about trying to find an example product that is not regulated in any way?
     
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