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Legion - The Best Azeroth Has Been in Years - World of Warcraft Review

135

Comments

  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 3,054
    waynejr2 said:
    Forgrimm said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Forgrimm said:
    Very fair list of pros and cons. My main issue is that the artifact grind makes playing other specs, and especially alt characters, seem way too prohibitive. I'm an altaholic but I've barely played anything other than my paladin for the last month.

    I can see it now.  Gets account wide artifacts then creates an alt character.  Later, "Hey, there is nothing for me to do!  Lazy Devs".
    Nope, there's nothing exciting about the artifact grind.

    You don't like mmoRPGs. Find another genre.
    Oh really? Because I don't like one particular grind in a specific game you're going to tell me that I don't like the entire genre? 2 posts, 2 sweeping generalizations you attributed to me. Troll more son.
  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,222
    edited September 2016
    I think the value is really poor. They raised the expansions from $40 with a sub to $50 with a sub.

    Overall, I think the expansion is pretty good, for WoW. The dungeons are fun and well designed, the open world and improved combat animations are nice. I don't care for questing or "story" in an MMO, so I can't really speak to those.

    I'm starting to feel the artifact weapon grind. It has slowed down to a very slow crawl. I don't love the world quests rewarding better gear than heroics potentially. I also don't like the talent system or stripping of 80% of all classes abilities. I'm not sure how long this expansion will keep the non raider.

    Although, I like the expansion more than WoD and Pandaland.
    Post edited by Mardukk on
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 3,054
    Do you guys who complain artifact progression is slow forget to create and collect your artifact knowledge tasks ? It takes like 5 seconds every 5 days... I have 200% bonus already, which means I get 3x more points from the artifact augmentation items.
    I'm at artifact knowledge level 5 so I have the 200% boost. I don't think the grind is bad as an initial thing, I just don't see myself wanting to do it another 5 or 6 times.
  • mikunimanmikuniman Member UncommonPosts: 375
    I'm an original launch puppy but found it hard to get past the boring new combat and artifact weapon grind for each spec. Dumb legendary handout, label me epic when I'm no different than a mob I kill. The rest of the xpac is good, story great. If it wasn't for that it felt like nails on a chalkboard. Sometimes I wonder if the devs even play the game. I liked it but it wasn't worth retail and sub.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    In spite of some obvious flaws, like good gear being far too easy to acquire (which has been a problem for a while now), I'm looking forward to diving in to this expansion sometime in October.  It is interesting to me, though, that Blizzard still continues to make the mistake of tying different aspects of the game together in a way that forces players to participate in activities they don't enjoy in order to access the content that they want to play.  

    There's that now famous post from a Blizzard rep that was posted in the official forum thread, where thousands of players were voicing their displeasure at the imminent return of mission tables in Legion, wherein the rep talks about how some people do enjoy the mission tables and how every activity in the game, from questing to raiding, is all enjoyed by a minority of players.  Well, if Blizzard understands that each activity only pleases a fraction of their playerbase then why the fuck do they continue to design their game in a way that ties these activities together?!!  Wouldn't it make more sense to have every aspect of the game be optional?  Come on, Blizzard. Pull your head out of your ass already!  Mission tables don't need to be tied to artifact progression.  People who want to craft don't need to be pushed into questing.  It's very frustrating to see them get so many things right and yet still fail to comprehend this simple concept.
    Am I correct in understanding it forces you to partake in those activities, or just interact with folks who have?

    For instance, in the crafting example you used...  Does the crafter himself HAVE to do the quest, or can he get what he needs from said quest by purchasing/bartering for it with another player?

    image
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    In spite of some obvious flaws, like good gear being far too easy to acquire (which has been a problem for a while now), I'm looking forward to diving in to this expansion sometime in October.  It is interesting to me, though, that Blizzard still continues to make the mistake of tying different aspects of the game together in a way that forces players to participate in activities they don't enjoy in order to access the content that they want to play.  

    There's that now famous post from a Blizzard rep that was posted in the official forum thread, where thousands of players were voicing their displeasure at the imminent return of mission tables in Legion, wherein the rep talks about how some people do enjoy the mission tables and how every activity in the game, from questing to raiding, is all enjoyed by a minority of players.  Well, if Blizzard understands that each activity only pleases a fraction of their playerbase then why the fuck do they continue to design their game in a way that ties these activities together?!!  Wouldn't it make more sense to have every aspect of the game be optional?  Come on, Blizzard. Pull your head out of your ass already!  Mission tables don't need to be tied to artifact progression.  People who want to craft don't need to be pushed into questing.  It's very frustrating to see them get so many things right and yet still fail to comprehend this simple concept.
    Am I correct in understanding it forces you to partake in those activities, or just interact with folks who have?

    For instance, in the crafting example you used...  Does the crafter himself HAVE to do the quest, or can he get what he needs from said quest by purchasing/bartering for it with another player?
    Good question.  I'm not in Legion yet so can only go by what I've heard from others, but it's my understanding that certain aspects of crafting can only be obtained through questing; some recipes, I think.
    Hopefully it's the latter, as that encourages interdependence without forcing anyone into activities they don't want to engage in (unless interacting with other people IS the activity one wishes to avoid).

    The former situation would be super misguided and baffling for a team with so many years tenure under its belt.

    image
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 3,054
    In spite of some obvious flaws, like good gear being far too easy to acquire (which has been a problem for a while now), I'm looking forward to diving in to this expansion sometime in October.  It is interesting to me, though, that Blizzard still continues to make the mistake of tying different aspects of the game together in a way that forces players to participate in activities they don't enjoy in order to access the content that they want to play.  

    There's that now famous post from a Blizzard rep that was posted in the official forum thread, where thousands of players were voicing their displeasure at the imminent return of mission tables in Legion, wherein the rep talks about how some people do enjoy the mission tables and how every activity in the game, from questing to raiding, is all enjoyed by a minority of players.  Well, if Blizzard understands that each activity only pleases a fraction of their playerbase then why the fuck do they continue to design their game in a way that ties these activities together?!!  Wouldn't it make more sense to have every aspect of the game be optional?  Come on, Blizzard. Pull your head out of your ass already!  Mission tables don't need to be tied to artifact progression.  People who want to craft don't need to be pushed into questing.  It's very frustrating to see them get so many things right and yet still fail to comprehend this simple concept.
    Am I correct in understanding it forces you to partake in those activities, or just interact with folks who have?

    For instance, in the crafting example you used...  Does the crafter himself HAVE to do the quest, or can he get what he needs from said quest by purchasing/bartering for it with another player?
    Crafting quests have to be done by the crafter him/herself. For my character who has the alchemy profession, I had to do dungeons and kill a raid boss to advance the profession and learn new recipes
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    edited September 2016
    Forgrimm said:
    In spite of some obvious flaws, like good gear being far too easy to acquire (which has been a problem for a while now), I'm looking forward to diving in to this expansion sometime in October.  It is interesting to me, though, that Blizzard still continues to make the mistake of tying different aspects of the game together in a way that forces players to participate in activities they don't enjoy in order to access the content that they want to play.  

    There's that now famous post from a Blizzard rep that was posted in the official forum thread, where thousands of players were voicing their displeasure at the imminent return of mission tables in Legion, wherein the rep talks about how some people do enjoy the mission tables and how every activity in the game, from questing to raiding, is all enjoyed by a minority of players.  Well, if Blizzard understands that each activity only pleases a fraction of their playerbase then why the fuck do they continue to design their game in a way that ties these activities together?!!  Wouldn't it make more sense to have every aspect of the game be optional?  Come on, Blizzard. Pull your head out of your ass already!  Mission tables don't need to be tied to artifact progression.  People who want to craft don't need to be pushed into questing.  It's very frustrating to see them get so many things right and yet still fail to comprehend this simple concept.
    Am I correct in understanding it forces you to partake in those activities, or just interact with folks who have?

    For instance, in the crafting example you used...  Does the crafter himself HAVE to do the quest, or can he get what he needs from said quest by purchasing/bartering for it with another player?
    Crafting quests have to be done by the crafter him/herself. For my character who has the alchemy profession, I had to do dungeons and kill a raid boss to advance the profession and learn new recipes
    Well learning new recipe is a little bit of a stretch. The raid/dungeon stuff is usually to learn a higher rank in certain recipes, which greatly reduces the cost of how many mats the recipe needs per rank. So theoretically you never have to do raids, but you will need to do some dungeons since some later recipes are gated by doing the rank 2s in the lower tier recipes before you can learn the completely new ones. However, given how high the initial cost in mats are for crafting stuff and seeing how dramatically each rank decreases said cost of mats, it will make people feel like they need rank 3 on every recipe.
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 3,054
    Albatroes said:
    Forgrimm said:
    In spite of some obvious flaws, like good gear being far too easy to acquire (which has been a problem for a while now), I'm looking forward to diving in to this expansion sometime in October.  It is interesting to me, though, that Blizzard still continues to make the mistake of tying different aspects of the game together in a way that forces players to participate in activities they don't enjoy in order to access the content that they want to play.  

    There's that now famous post from a Blizzard rep that was posted in the official forum thread, where thousands of players were voicing their displeasure at the imminent return of mission tables in Legion, wherein the rep talks about how some people do enjoy the mission tables and how every activity in the game, from questing to raiding, is all enjoyed by a minority of players.  Well, if Blizzard understands that each activity only pleases a fraction of their playerbase then why the fuck do they continue to design their game in a way that ties these activities together?!!  Wouldn't it make more sense to have every aspect of the game be optional?  Come on, Blizzard. Pull your head out of your ass already!  Mission tables don't need to be tied to artifact progression.  People who want to craft don't need to be pushed into questing.  It's very frustrating to see them get so many things right and yet still fail to comprehend this simple concept.
    Am I correct in understanding it forces you to partake in those activities, or just interact with folks who have?

    For instance, in the crafting example you used...  Does the crafter himself HAVE to do the quest, or can he get what he needs from said quest by purchasing/bartering for it with another player?
    Crafting quests have to be done by the crafter him/herself. For my character who has the alchemy profession, I had to do dungeons and kill a raid boss to advance the profession and learn new recipes
    Well learning new recipe is a little bit of a stretch. The raid/dungeon stuff is usually to learn a higher rank in certain recipes, which greatly reduces the cost of how many mats the recipe needs per rank. So theoretically you never have to do raids, but you will need to do some dungeons since some later recipes are gated by doing the rank 2s in the lower tier recipes before you can learn the completely new ones. However, given how high the initial cost in mats are for crafting stuff and seeing how dramatically each rank decreases said cost of mats, it will make people feel like they need rank 3 on every recipe.
    For alchemy the actual recipes are gated behind the quests, not the advanced ranks. You can't buy the recipe from the alchemy trainer unless you complete the quests.
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    Forgrimm said:
    Albatroes said:
    Forgrimm said:
    In spite of some obvious flaws, like good gear being far too easy to acquire (which has been a problem for a while now), I'm looking forward to diving in to this expansion sometime in October.  It is interesting to me, though, that Blizzard still continues to make the mistake of tying different aspects of the game together in a way that forces players to participate in activities they don't enjoy in order to access the content that they want to play.  

    There's that now famous post from a Blizzard rep that was posted in the official forum thread, where thousands of players were voicing their displeasure at the imminent return of mission tables in Legion, wherein the rep talks about how some people do enjoy the mission tables and how every activity in the game, from questing to raiding, is all enjoyed by a minority of players.  Well, if Blizzard understands that each activity only pleases a fraction of their playerbase then why the fuck do they continue to design their game in a way that ties these activities together?!!  Wouldn't it make more sense to have every aspect of the game be optional?  Come on, Blizzard. Pull your head out of your ass already!  Mission tables don't need to be tied to artifact progression.  People who want to craft don't need to be pushed into questing.  It's very frustrating to see them get so many things right and yet still fail to comprehend this simple concept.
    Am I correct in understanding it forces you to partake in those activities, or just interact with folks who have?

    For instance, in the crafting example you used...  Does the crafter himself HAVE to do the quest, or can he get what he needs from said quest by purchasing/bartering for it with another player?
    Crafting quests have to be done by the crafter him/herself. For my character who has the alchemy profession, I had to do dungeons and kill a raid boss to advance the profession and learn new recipes
    Well learning new recipe is a little bit of a stretch. The raid/dungeon stuff is usually to learn a higher rank in certain recipes, which greatly reduces the cost of how many mats the recipe needs per rank. So theoretically you never have to do raids, but you will need to do some dungeons since some later recipes are gated by doing the rank 2s in the lower tier recipes before you can learn the completely new ones. However, given how high the initial cost in mats are for crafting stuff and seeing how dramatically each rank decreases said cost of mats, it will make people feel like they need rank 3 on every recipe.
    For alchemy the actual recipes are gated behind the quests, not the advanced ranks. You can't buy the recipe from the alchemy trainer unless you complete the quests.
    I know that all recipes for all crafting professions are gated behind quests, but I was more specifying the degree of content you have to do to get them. I'm not sure about all, but I know most dont have you do anything beyond normal level dungeons, so casuals will never have to do raids unless they want to get to rank 3 in most cases.
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 3,054
    Albatroes said:
    Forgrimm said:
    Albatroes said:
    Forgrimm said:
    In spite of some obvious flaws, like good gear being far too easy to acquire (which has been a problem for a while now), I'm looking forward to diving in to this expansion sometime in October.  It is interesting to me, though, that Blizzard still continues to make the mistake of tying different aspects of the game together in a way that forces players to participate in activities they don't enjoy in order to access the content that they want to play.  

    There's that now famous post from a Blizzard rep that was posted in the official forum thread, where thousands of players were voicing their displeasure at the imminent return of mission tables in Legion, wherein the rep talks about how some people do enjoy the mission tables and how every activity in the game, from questing to raiding, is all enjoyed by a minority of players.  Well, if Blizzard understands that each activity only pleases a fraction of their playerbase then why the fuck do they continue to design their game in a way that ties these activities together?!!  Wouldn't it make more sense to have every aspect of the game be optional?  Come on, Blizzard. Pull your head out of your ass already!  Mission tables don't need to be tied to artifact progression.  People who want to craft don't need to be pushed into questing.  It's very frustrating to see them get so many things right and yet still fail to comprehend this simple concept.
    Am I correct in understanding it forces you to partake in those activities, or just interact with folks who have?

    For instance, in the crafting example you used...  Does the crafter himself HAVE to do the quest, or can he get what he needs from said quest by purchasing/bartering for it with another player?
    Crafting quests have to be done by the crafter him/herself. For my character who has the alchemy profession, I had to do dungeons and kill a raid boss to advance the profession and learn new recipes
    Well learning new recipe is a little bit of a stretch. The raid/dungeon stuff is usually to learn a higher rank in certain recipes, which greatly reduces the cost of how many mats the recipe needs per rank. So theoretically you never have to do raids, but you will need to do some dungeons since some later recipes are gated by doing the rank 2s in the lower tier recipes before you can learn the completely new ones. However, given how high the initial cost in mats are for crafting stuff and seeing how dramatically each rank decreases said cost of mats, it will make people feel like they need rank 3 on every recipe.
    For alchemy the actual recipes are gated behind the quests, not the advanced ranks. You can't buy the recipe from the alchemy trainer unless you complete the quests.
    I know that all recipes for all crafting professions are gated behind quests, but I was more specifying the degree of content you have to do to get them. I'm not sure about all, but I know most dont have you do anything beyond normal level dungeons, so casuals will never have to do raids unless they want to get to rank 3 in most cases.
    In addition to the dungeon quests for certain alchemy recipes, you have to down the first boss in Emerald Nightmare raid to get the cauldron recipe. For flasks and such, you get rank 3 by making the rank 2 version over and over and hoping RNG favors you and procs the quest for rank 3.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited September 2016
    Albatroes said:
    Forgrimm said:
    Albatroes said:
    Forgrimm said:
    In spite of some obvious flaws, like good gear being far too easy to acquire (which has been a problem for a while now), I'm looking forward to diving in to this expansion sometime in October.  It is interesting to me, though, that Blizzard still continues to make the mistake of tying different aspects of the game together in a way that forces players to participate in activities they don't enjoy in order to access the content that they want to play.  

    There's that now famous post from a Blizzard rep that was posted in the official forum thread, where thousands of players were voicing their displeasure at the imminent return of mission tables in Legion, wherein the rep talks about how some people do enjoy the mission tables and how every activity in the game, from questing to raiding, is all enjoyed by a minority of players.  Well, if Blizzard understands that each activity only pleases a fraction of their playerbase then why the fuck do they continue to design their game in a way that ties these activities together?!!  Wouldn't it make more sense to have every aspect of the game be optional?  Come on, Blizzard. Pull your head out of your ass already!  Mission tables don't need to be tied to artifact progression.  People who want to craft don't need to be pushed into questing.  It's very frustrating to see them get so many things right and yet still fail to comprehend this simple concept.
    Am I correct in understanding it forces you to partake in those activities, or just interact with folks who have?

    For instance, in the crafting example you used...  Does the crafter himself HAVE to do the quest, or can he get what he needs from said quest by purchasing/bartering for it with another player?
    Crafting quests have to be done by the crafter him/herself. For my character who has the alchemy profession, I had to do dungeons and kill a raid boss to advance the profession and learn new recipes
    Well learning new recipe is a little bit of a stretch. The raid/dungeon stuff is usually to learn a higher rank in certain recipes, which greatly reduces the cost of how many mats the recipe needs per rank. So theoretically you never have to do raids, but you will need to do some dungeons since some later recipes are gated by doing the rank 2s in the lower tier recipes before you can learn the completely new ones. However, given how high the initial cost in mats are for crafting stuff and seeing how dramatically each rank decreases said cost of mats, it will make people feel like they need rank 3 on every recipe.
    For alchemy the actual recipes are gated behind the quests, not the advanced ranks. You can't buy the recipe from the alchemy trainer unless you complete the quests.
    I know that all recipes for all crafting professions are gated behind quests, but I was more specifying the degree of content you have to do to get them. I'm not sure about all, but I know most dont have you do anything beyond normal level dungeons, so casuals will never have to do raids unless they want to get to rank 3 in most cases.
    To me, this is bad design.  Crafters shouldn't be compelled to Raid to max out a recipe.  If Blizzard were to make it so that some recipes are rare and only found in dungeons/raids, I think that could be a fun dynamic (and it was back in the day) provided those recipes didn't bind-on-pickup and could be sold at auction to crafters who have no interest in dungeoneering/raiding.
    I think questing would be palatable for crafters IF the quest somehow revolved around them participating in crafting related activities.

    Quests that force the player to engage in unrelated activities is bad form in this case, in my opinion.  Specifically here, running dungeon/raid content.  Questing that would complement the player's favored activities isn't a bad idea, I think.  But it's a fine line.

    image
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 3,054
    To me, this is bad design.  Crafters shouldn't be compelled to Raid to max out a recipe.  If Blizzard were to make it so that some recipes are rare and only found in dungeons/raids, I think that could be a fun dynamic (and it was back in the day) provided those recipes didn't bind-on-pickup and could be sold at auction to crafters who have no interest in dungeoneering/raiding.
    I think questing would be palatable for crafters IF the quest somehow revolved around them participating in crafting related activities.

    Quests that force the player to engage in unrelated activities is bad form in this case, in my opinion.  Specifically here, running dungeon/raid content.  Questing that would complement the player's favored activities isn't a bad idea, I think.  But it's a fine line.
    I agree. And I didn't even mind it myself because I run dungeons regularly and do raids so I would be doing the content required for the profession quests anyway. But a lot of people have crafting alts that they only use for professions and have no desire to run dungeons or raids just for their profession advancement.
  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek Member UncommonPosts: 272

    Ghavrigg said:

    Ever since they removed ActionCam, the game has felt a little more boring, so I'm taking a short break and playing the new FFXIV patch while I wait for 7.1 to come out, as I hear it's coming back then.




    you can enable action cam on the console.... /console actioncam full

    As for the OP... I dont find this expansion all that interesting to be honest. Every time I log in I find myself logging off 5 or 10 minutes later

    image
  • Spankster77Spankster77 Member UncommonPosts: 487
    Legion isn't very good, most of the content doesn't have any substance and most of it is a mash up of classic, BC and Wrath pretty much. All just rehashed boring themes. This game needs some new blood at the helm badly. Granted Wow lore has never been stellar, but the current game is just awful as far as lore goes. Oh, and this everyone is the savior of the world crap just kills my interest in this game as well.
    How much have you played of it?  Have you reached 110 yet on any characters?  Do you PvP or raid in WoW?  How about mythic and mythic + dungeons?

    Whenever I see a post like this., it screams, I haven't played at all yet I have very strong opinions.
  • Spankster77Spankster77 Member UncommonPosts: 487
    Forgrimm said:
    Nope, there's nothing exciting about the artifact grind.
    I love when I see people complaining about grind in MMORPG forums.  You do realize that the entire basis behind MMORPGs is basically grind in one form or another right?  

    You have games like BDO that don't even try to disguise it where at max level it takes 20 - 30 + hours running around gathering up weak mobs and just nuking them down over and over to go up a level or Archeage where you sit in an overpopulated PvP area for days fighting over mob spawns to get a decent weapon.

    Games like GW2, FFXIV, and WoW do a much better job at integrating that grind into less tedious things.  For example to grind AP in WoW you have choices.  You can do dungeons, world quests, raids, even PvP all the while you also have a chance to get rare mounts, pets, and even gear.  

    Honestly, if the artifact grind bothers you, you may want to think about single player RPGs where once you kill the final boss, its done, you move on to another game?
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 3,054
    Forgrimm said:
    Nope, there's nothing exciting about the artifact grind.
    I love when I see people complaining about grind in MMORPG forums.  You do realize that the entire basis behind MMORPGs is basically grind in one form or another right?  

    You have games like BDO that don't even try to disguise it where at max level it takes 20 - 30 + hours running around gathering up weak mobs and just nuking them down over and over to go up a level or Archeage where you sit in an overpopulated PvP area for days fighting over mob spawns to get a decent weapon.

    Games like GW2, FFXIV, and WoW do a much better job at integrating that grind into less tedious things.  For example to grind AP in WoW you have choices.  You can do dungeons, world quests, raids, even PvP all the while you also have a chance to get rare mounts, pets, and even gear.  

    Honestly, if the artifact grind bothers you, you may want to think about single player RPGs where once you kill the final boss, its done, you move on to another game?
    I've logged thousands of hours across numerous mmo's over the last 17 years and have been a WoW player since vanilla, I'm certainly no stranger to grinds. The artifact grind in particular just doesn't appeal to me enough to want to do it on multiple alts, or even multiple specs/weapons on a single character. It's not bad as an initial thing, but I certainly have no desire to do it multiple times. Which is why I said that alts seem prohibitive in Legion, and it would be nice if artifact power or at least artifact knowledge was account wide.
  • GhavriggGhavrigg Member RarePosts: 1,308
    edited September 2016

    Ghavrigg said:

    Ever since they removed ActionCam, the game has felt a little more boring, so I'm taking a short break and playing the new FFXIV patch while I wait for 7.1 to come out, as I hear it's coming back then.




    you can enable action cam on the console.... /console actioncam full

    As for the OP... I dont find this expansion all that interesting to be honest. Every time I log in I find myself logging off 5 or 10 minutes later
    So I assume you just didn't go to the official forums, or reddit, or anywhere WoW related during the pre-patch, but it was removed like a month ago or more because of claims of motion sickness from people who were apparently having it turn on randomly for them. They removed it entirely to improve it and have it in the options and stuff and not be used through the console.

    If you come back and say shit like "I just did it yesterday", you're a liar/troll.
  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558
    Lol, artifact grind, really. It s so minimal, people are so soft nowadays, even in games.
  • mikunimanmikuniman Member UncommonPosts: 375
    Forgrimm said:
    Nope, there's nothing exciting about the artifact grind.
    I love when I see people complaining about grind in MMORPG forums.  You do realize that the entire basis behind MMORPGs is basically grind in one form or another right?  

    You have games like BDO that don't even try to disguise it where at max level it takes 20 - 30 + hours running around gathering up weak mobs and just nuking them down over and over to go up a level or Archeage where you sit in an overpopulated PvP area for days fighting over mob spawns to get a decent weapon.

    Games like GW2, FFXIV, and WoW do a much better job at integrating that grind into less tedious things.  For example to grind AP in WoW you have choices.  You can do dungeons, world quests, raids, even PvP all the while you also have a chance to get rare mounts, pets, and even gear.  

    Honestly, if the artifact grind bothers you, you may want to think about single player RPGs where once you kill the final boss, its done, you move on to another game?
    Worse even, every cool place you've quested, items you crafted, mats you've collected, and all the endless hours time you've invested on your epic journey is all crap when a new xpac is released. That to me is a grind. A good majority of other mmos and even rpgs your content you've completed still has some replay value, unlike wow. Gerbils on blizzards treadmill and we pay for it.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    I enjoyed the content and leveled a lot of classes.  For the 30 days I played I feel like I got my money worth.  Had lots of fun.  See them in another few years probably.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,029
    Loke666 said:
    Ibja said:
    I think the game "lost its sense of urgency", as Lurianar said, after a few expansions of the same kind of "world is ending" conflict. In vanilla wow, and even TBC, I never got the sense with the story that the entire world was in immediate and overpowering danger. There were dungeons and raids and the game felt like it was about exploring and discovery.

    Since WOTLK and onward, it's always felt like the story was "literally the entire world will be destroyed if we don't act right this second" and it's hard to continue to mak e the kind of story exciting, or, apparently, to break out of that story line once you start it.

    There is no more exploring, just a giant move toward defeating the big boss. I get that this is progression gameplay wise, but it's very boring lore-wise.
    Yeah, more or less all MMOs tend to tell that story nowadays. 

    And I have a bit of problem with that, it feel weird doing filler quests when the entire world will die unless I personally save it. It is like FDR would send Patton home to count ammo boxes and put out cockroach-motels between battles during WW2.

    And after a while the whole "world is in danger, only you can save it" means everything just feel unimportant including the main quests. aIt would be one thing if several expansions lead up to a time where the world suddenly was in danger and you and your guildies need to save, then you slowly build to something but re-using the same base story over and over in more or less all games is just pathetic.

    How about an expansion about getting rich fast? Or court intrigues where you can support or hinder heirs to the throne? Or just about exploring a new world?

    And it would be nice to be a villain now and again in a MMO...
    If you want to be a villain, play SWTOR.  Being a Sith is so much fun.  "Took my taco?" *Force choke*.
  • daltaniousdaltanious Member UncommonPosts: 2,381

    Forgrimm said:

    Very fair list of pros and cons. My main issue is that the artifact grind makes playing other specs, and especially alt characters, seem way too prohibitive. I'm an altaholic but I've barely played anything other than my paladin for the last month.



    I have no problem with artifact grind ... sooner or later I will upgrade them all for all alts ... currently have 5 alts lv. 110, few coming soon ... but for the first time in Wow era that last ding is not imporatnt for me ... games is, enjoying quests, ... going to any area and still getting something of better equipment ... I can easily see myself playing for at least half year with all my 12 alliance alts, then horde waits. Problem with horde for me is, in Wod I lost interest to play them all, leveled only 3. At the start of Wod I had 22 maxed out alts. If i could skip Wod with all an starting in Legion, I would again have at the beginning of next expansion 24 alts this time.
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    Probably the hardest thing about being right about something is waiting till others come to the conclusion that you were right.
  • nimander99nimander99 Member UncommonPosts: 288
    I played through 1 and a half zones before deciding on the back burner till they complete the Actioncam function. I want to experience the expac with that enabled.
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