I mean if one person shows up to an empty castle then he should be able to claim it without having to fight a bunch of npc's. It would create an entirely new atmosphere and game if players had to actually communicate on how they were moving on the map and what they were defending so stuff like that didn't happen.
I take it you weren't around for DAoC and 3AM zergs.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I think if they made combat more "ground" in reality the effect of the zerg my not be as bad. More realistic momentum based movement, strategic formation and the like would make it less chaotic. Have less area affect attacks would help some.
But nothing can prevent zerging in general.
I'm with you on combat grounded in reality to a certain degree. Instead of less AoE, I would say return to the days where it wasn't selective. Selective AoE is a byproduct of griefing prevention. Combine that with collision detection, and suddenly the zerg dissipates.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I think if they made combat more "ground" in reality the effect of the zerg my not be as bad. More realistic momentum based movement, strategic formation and the like would make it less chaotic. Have less area affect attacks would help some.
But nothing can prevent zerging in general.
I'm with you on combat grounded in reality to a certain degree. Instead of less AoE, I would say return to the days where it wasn't selective. Selective AoE is a byproduct of griefing prevention. Combine that with collision detection, and suddenly the zerg dissipates.
It might be a lot to ask to have collision detection, movement with momentum and etc. Collision detection is a casualty of preventing players from impacting other players.
I think if they made combat more "ground" in reality the effect of the zerg my not be as bad. More realistic momentum based movement, strategic formation and the like would make it less chaotic. Have less area affect attacks would help some.
But nothing can prevent zerging in general.
I'm with you on combat grounded in reality to a certain degree. Instead of less AoE, I would say return to the days where it wasn't selective. Selective AoE is a byproduct of griefing prevention. Combine that with collision detection, and suddenly the zerg dissipates.
It might be a lot to ask to have collision detection, movement with momentum and etc. Collision detection is a casualty of preventing players from impacting other players.
Unit collision and friendly fire bring a whole new set of problems to the table. But if you look then Planetside2 has had friendly fire and that has survived. I think they dealt with it well. As for unit collision it would require an active GM who is looking for it and has the authority to deal with it. Something not many mmo's have ever had.
I know you guys are wrong because Ragnarok had collision on guardians and skills and there was no zerg. People would rush in the castle to invade, but if you zerg/blob all would die to aoe's, because you would stuck in place and would eat many blizzards and meteors on pre-emp.
Guilds who zerg in castles would just die on second room aoe's. Giving no worries to castle owner.
The result is a different approach: People would go in in waves, following a tactic. The first wave would be bufed up to pass the aoe's and get mages cc'ed - so the group would follow a certain composition, the second wave would consist on raged damage to take mages down and some emp breakers to pass by and start taking the emp down.
So instead of a zerg force you would have groups composed to fulfill a certain task within the war and the other groups would depend on them. It was a very tactic pvp feature.
For example, people would send in just a couple of characters. One rogue to cc mages and a monk to azura a counter measure such a crusader.
Note: Those waves were not a single stacked group. And they were very coordinated. So I think WoE is what you are looking for, OP, in terms of example.
But, Warhammer also had collision detection and that was full of the zerg, so your premise doesn't hold up.
It sounds to me like Ragnarok has other mechanics to prevent the zerg, namely powerful AoE damage, that allowed smaller groups to fend off zergs successfully.
I think if they made combat more "ground" in reality the effect of the zerg my not be as bad. More realistic momentum based movement, strategic formation and the like would make it less chaotic. Have less area affect attacks would help some.
But nothing can prevent zerging in general.
I'm with you on combat grounded in reality to a certain degree. Instead of less AoE, I would say return to the days where it wasn't selective. Selective AoE is a byproduct of griefing prevention. Combine that with collision detection, and suddenly the zerg dissipates.
It might be a lot to ask to have collision detection, movement with momentum and etc. Collision detection is a casualty of preventing players from impacting other players.
Unit collision and friendly fire bring a whole new set of problems to the table. But if you look then Planetside2 has had friendly fire and that has survived. I think they dealt with it well. As for unit collision it would require an active GM who is looking for it and has the authority to deal with it. Something not many mmo's have ever had.
UO and EQ you could block people physically. You then had Ogres squaring in doorways lol. UO you could push past them with limits that I can't remember.
Seems like some in this thread think a zerg is just a mindless blob incapable of using strategy or thinking. It's nothing more than a large grouping of players on the same side. It can use strategy, send parts of itself to different places or to the same place in waves if that makes tactical sense.
Zergs happen in both full-collision and no-collision MMOs since all that collision brings to the table is just another way to do choke points with meat barriers instead of the wooden or stone varieties.
And any self-respecting PVP game has natural terrain choke-points and anti-zerg counters - heavy damage siege AOE weapons with unlimited number of targets affected being the most common one.
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― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I think if they made combat more "ground" in reality the effect of the zerg my not be as bad. More realistic momentum based movement, strategic formation and the like would make it less chaotic. Have less area affect attacks would help some.
But nothing can prevent zerging in general.
I'm with you on combat grounded in reality to a certain degree. Instead of less AoE, I would say return to the days where it wasn't selective. Selective AoE is a byproduct of griefing prevention. Combine that with collision detection, and suddenly the zerg dissipates.
It might be a lot to ask to have collision detection, movement with momentum and etc. Collision detection is a casualty of preventing players from impacting other players.
Most of the features that we've lost seem to be because people can't behave themselves.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Comments
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I'm with you on combat grounded in reality to a certain degree. Instead of less AoE, I would say return to the days where it wasn't selective. Selective AoE is a byproduct of griefing prevention. Combine that with collision detection, and suddenly the zerg dissipates.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
It sounds to me like Ragnarok has other mechanics to prevent the zerg, namely powerful AoE damage, that allowed smaller groups to fend off zergs successfully.
Zergs happen in both full-collision and no-collision MMOs since all that collision brings to the table is just another way to do choke points with meat barriers instead of the wooden or stone varieties.
And any self-respecting PVP game has natural terrain choke-points and anti-zerg counters - heavy damage siege AOE weapons with unlimited number of targets affected being the most common one.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?