Very fair list of pros and cons. My main issue is that the artifact grind makes playing other specs, and especially alt characters, seem way too prohibitive. I'm an altaholic but I've barely played anything other than my paladin for the last month.
I can see it now. Gets account wide artifacts then creates an alt character. Later, "Hey, there is nothing for me to do! Lazy Devs".
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Very fair list of pros and cons. My main issue is that the artifact grind makes playing other specs, and especially alt characters, seem way too prohibitive. I'm an altaholic but I've barely played anything other than my paladin for the last month.
I feel your pain. I have all twelve classes but only the energy or inclination to stick with my "main". I remember Blizz talking about an "alt-friendly" expansion and maybe over time with the catch up mechanics that automatically kick in as the expac ages it'll happen. But it surely isn't there yet.
Yeah, would be nice if artifact power was account wide, or something similar.
100% agreed.
lol, I like that it isn t.
it becomes grindy turns off players...wildstar had this issue.
diablo 3 and ESO does it well!
Yep, I understand that. My wife and I play casually, so we don t even notice it. When it levels we re like, oh cool. Just don t care at all , how grindy anything is really.
We re big FFXI and DAOC fans back in the day, nothing feels grindy to us after those 2.
It isn't bad now because most people are doing the artifact grind for their first time. The problem will be doing that same grind on 7 or 8 other characters.
Just do it on your main and level alts to 110. Chance is great that artifacts will be made useless in the next expac anyway.
Very fair list of pros and cons. My main issue is that the artifact grind makes playing other specs, and especially alt characters, seem way too prohibitive. I'm an altaholic but I've barely played anything other than my paladin for the last month.
I can see it now. Gets account wide artifacts then creates an alt character. Later, "Hey, there is nothing for me to do! Lazy Devs".
Nope, there's nothing exciting about the artifact grind.
Very fair list of pros and cons. My main issue is that the artifact grind makes playing other specs, and especially alt characters, seem way too prohibitive. I'm an altaholic but I've barely played anything other than my paladin for the last month.
I feel your pain. I have all twelve classes but only the energy or inclination to stick with my "main". I remember Blizz talking about an "alt-friendly" expansion and maybe over time with the catch up mechanics that automatically kick in as the expac ages it'll happen. But it surely isn't there yet.
Yeah, would be nice if artifact power was account wide, or something similar.
100% agreed.
lol, I like that it isn t.
it becomes grindy turns off players...wildstar had this issue.
diablo 3 and ESO does it well!
Yep, I understand that. My wife and I play casually, so we don t even notice it. When it levels we re like, oh cool. Just don t care at all , how grindy anything is really.
We re big FFXI and DAOC fans back in the day, nothing feels grindy to us after those 2.
It isn't bad now because most people are doing the artifact grind for their first time. The problem will be doing that same grind on 7 or 8 other characters.
Just do it on your main and level alts to 110. Chance is great that artifacts will be made useless in the next expac anyway.
Well, the devs already confirmed before the expansion was released that the artifact system will not carry over into the next expansion. The interview was somewhere on this site a few months ago. Kind of why I haven't been enjoying this expansion as much as I would've liked (garrison-lite also didn't help either, do away with it completely please Blizzard and just keep the bodyguard system). People try to equate it to legendaries since they meet the same fate every expansion so it shouldn't be a surprise, but I dont know if I agree with that.
So the overall issue I have with wow is its lack of persistence. Only thing that ends up carrying over is your levels.
Very fair list of pros and cons. My main issue is that the artifact grind makes playing other specs, and especially alt characters, seem way too prohibitive. I'm an altaholic but I've barely played anything other than my paladin for the last month.
I feel your pain. I have all twelve classes but only the energy or inclination to stick with my "main". I remember Blizz talking about an "alt-friendly" expansion and maybe over time with the catch up mechanics that automatically kick in as the expac ages it'll happen. But it surely isn't there yet.
Yeah, would be nice if artifact power was account wide, or something similar.
100% agreed.
lol, I like that it isn t.
it becomes grindy turns off players...wildstar had this issue.
diablo 3 and ESO does it well!
Yep, I understand that. My wife and I play casually, so we don t even notice it. When it levels we re like, oh cool. Just don t care at all , how grindy anything is really.
We re big FFXI and DAOC fans back in the day, nothing feels grindy to us after those 2.
It isn't bad now because most people are doing the artifact grind for their first time. The problem will be doing that same grind on 7 or 8 other characters.
Just do it on your main and level alts to 110. Chance is great that artifacts will be made useless in the next expac anyway.
They've already said so. But that doesn't erase wanting other characters to fulfill other roles or who want to play a different style.
Very fair list of pros and cons. My main issue is that the artifact grind makes playing other specs, and especially alt characters, seem way too prohibitive. I'm an altaholic but I've barely played anything other than my paladin for the last month.
I feel your pain. I have all twelve classes but only the energy or inclination to stick with my "main". I remember Blizz talking about an "alt-friendly" expansion and maybe over time with the catch up mechanics that automatically kick in as the expac ages it'll happen. But it surely isn't there yet.
Yeah, would be nice if artifact power was account wide, or something similar.
100% agreed.
lol, I like that it isn t.
it becomes grindy turns off players...wildstar had this issue.
diablo 3 and ESO does it well!
Yep, I understand that. My wife and I play casually, so we don t even notice it. When it levels we re like, oh cool. Just don t care at all , how grindy anything is really.
We re big FFXI and DAOC fans back in the day, nothing feels grindy to us after those 2.
It isn't bad now because most people are doing the artifact grind for their first time. The problem will be doing that same grind on 7 or 8 other characters.
Just do it on your main and level alts to 110. Chance is great that artifacts will be made useless in the next expac anyway.
Well, the devs already confirmed before the expansion was released that the artifact system will not carry over into the next expansion. The interview was somewhere on this site a few months ago. Kind of why I haven't been enjoying this expansion as much as I would've liked (garrison-lite also didn't help either, do away with it completely please Blizzard and just keep the bodyguard system). People try to equate it to legendaries since they meet the same fate every expansion so it shouldn't be a surprise, but I dont know if I agree with that.
So the overall issue I have with wow is its lack of persistence. Only thing that ends up carrying over is your levels.
Yeah that irks me too. They'll introduce a new feature and make it a major part of an expansion, only to completely scrap it in the next expansion. I wonder what the storyline will be when we lose our artifacts. Maybe we were just borrowing them all along, or maybe they'll lose their power once the Legion is defeated, *shrugs*.
no grinding for weapons!=win! no mythic or that nonsense of elite world first crap prestige i dotn care for none of that.
iam already pissed they dotn sell the moose in the shop! which they should!- guess they dont need income that bad-they are doin just fine.
Very fair list of pros and cons. My main issue is that the artifact grind makes playing other specs, and especially alt characters, seem way too prohibitive. I'm an altaholic but I've barely played anything other than my paladin for the last month.
I feel your pain. I have all twelve classes but only the energy or inclination to stick with my "main". I remember Blizz talking about an "alt-friendly" expansion and maybe over time with the catch up mechanics that automatically kick in as the expac ages it'll happen. But it surely isn't there yet.
Yeah, would be nice if artifact power was account wide, or something similar.
100% agreed.
lol, I like that it isn t.
it becomes grindy turns off players...wildstar had this issue.
diablo 3 and ESO does it well!
Yep, I understand that. My wife and I play casually, so we don t even notice it. When it levels we re like, oh cool. Just don t care at all , how grindy anything is really.
We re big FFXI and DAOC fans back in the day, nothing feels grindy to us after those 2.
It isn't bad now because most people are doing the artifact grind for their first time. The problem will be doing that same grind on 7 or 8 other characters.
Just do it on your main and level alts to 110. Chance is great that artifacts will be made useless in the next expac anyway.
Well, the devs already confirmed before the expansion was released that the artifact system will not carry over into the next expansion. The interview was somewhere on this site a few months ago. Kind of why I haven't been enjoying this expansion as much as I would've liked (garrison-lite also didn't help either, do away with it completely please Blizzard and just keep the bodyguard system). People try to equate it to legendaries since they meet the same fate every expansion so it shouldn't be a surprise, but I dont know if I agree with that.
So the overall issue I have with wow is its lack of persistence. Only thing that ends up carrying over is your levels.
Yeah that irks me too. They'll introduce a new feature and make it a major part of an expansion, only to completely scrap it in the next expansion. I wonder what the storyline will be when we lose our artifacts. Maybe we were just borrowing them all along, or maybe they'll lose their power once the Legion is defeated, *shrugs*.
The next expansion will be World of Warcraft: Clone Wars! That's where they'll explain how Azeroth ended up with thousands of Chosen Ones all carrying duplicate artifacts.
Wouldn't surprise me. They're probably running out of ideas at this point.
So the overall issue I have with wow is its lack of persistence. Only thing that ends up carrying over is your levels.
and gold. That's why I stopped caring about having the full experience(raiding) on all my alts(I have 1-2 of every class). For me it just ends up feeling like a waste of time and purposely designed that way to keep you subbed as long as possible.
As a crafter the way you have to do quests just to learn recipes really bums me out so I am just playing other games atm.
It seems we get these type of claims after WoW releases every expansion, then in a couple months we will read how bored the players are and how they are quitting in droves again.....
Tried to get back into it but it didnt age well to me. I was a fortunate person that had Wildstar actually running smoothly and that game ruined WoW for me.
It seems we get these type of claims after WoW releases every expansion, then in a couple months we will read how bored the players are and how they are quitting in droves again.....
That is alluded to throughout the review and with the promise that we're coming back with an update in 5-6 months. There's no question that once players hit level cap, things will be vastly different. Until then, it's a wonderful expansion for a certain type of casual crowd -- not to be confused with content locusts -- who will stick around for 4-6 months and then move on until the next content addition or expansion. Legion is perfect for that, though there is a strong draw for hardcore WoWites too.
I've returned after trying WoD & not liking it. However i agree with some of the posters above. If Blizz want to cater for All playstyles then do so without penalty. I prefer following the storyline,doing Q's,exploring & crafting. I got fed up with Dungeon grinding/schedule/ early leavers years ago so therefore do not like being forced to do them for storyline or crafting q's. However if they insist on forcing me to do them then scale it for 1,2 or even 3 players rather than 5 man.
Ever since they removed ActionCam, the game has felt a little more boring, so I'm taking a short break and playing the new FFXIV patch while I wait for 7.1 to come out, as I hear it's coming back then.
Legion was amazing to level through the first time, but the story and areas are kinda dull the second time through imo. World Quests really are just like random dailies (that are obviously not daily, just on timers) that quickly grow boring, but at least the rewards switch up.
Suramar is kinda cool in the city, but is incredibly boring to quest in, and I just haven't had the motivation.
All the ramp up to this invasion, and the Legion just doesn't feel as threatening and in your face as I expected. Really feels like they're just a side attraction at this point, off in the background, not really doing much.
The game is fun, but I overhyped it in my head, which I thought I had learned not to do at this point.
I do like the story, combat, zone scaling, order hall and the concept of the world quests, but the game isn't pulling me in as I hoped atm.
I remember an event during TBC. I was at that blimp tower outside of Underworld. Everyone there was under attack by a three story tall NPC. Was that Illidan? Does anyone else remember this event? Has anyone seen a youtube video of that event?
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Very fair list of pros and cons. My main issue is that the artifact grind makes playing other specs, and especially alt characters, seem way too prohibitive. I'm an altaholic but I've barely played anything other than my paladin for the last month.
I can see it now. Gets account wide artifacts then creates an alt character. Later, "Hey, there is nothing for me to do! Lazy Devs".
Nope, there's nothing exciting about the artifact grind.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Hi, would it be ok to request the video format of this? It would make things so much easier, cause i hate to read now that i am older
BTW it sure doe not hurt the game that some of the biggest streamers on Twitch stream this game and praise it over the over...
I glad to hear but it is to bad it is to late for me when come WoW i love all lore in WoW but it is to bad that blizzard went after Lich King expansion and total destory everything which i and many other hardcore game love about that game.
Legion isn't very good, most of the content doesn't have any substance and most of it is a mash up of classic, BC and Wrath pretty much. All just rehashed boring themes. This game needs some new blood at the helm badly. Granted Wow lore has never been stellar, but the current game is just awful as far as lore goes. Oh, and this everyone is the savior of the world crap just kills my interest in this game as well.
I like Legion. It's been quite a while since I had that much fun with a MMORPG.
Reasons why I like it: - not constantly bombarded by a cash shop or having obstacles thrown at you that can only be solved by a cash shop - great audio: music, most quests have a voice artist - often interesting quests - high replayability, since you can start in any region and have different guildhalls and whatnot - lots of class and profession related quests
While I feel that the Artifact Weapon system is cool, part of me thinks it's a lazy way to get out of designing 50 different weapon skins for different weapon archtypes. It also makes me wonder what they will do with weapons in future expansions (assuming Blizzard keeps rolling them out.)
Right now my shaman is rocking The Doomhammer. THRALL'S DOOMHAMMER. From a lore perspective it's NOT a weapon you discard for a new one. Yet look at all of the previous Legendaries that are now wall hangers. If a new expansion comes along in 2 years and The Doomhammer becomes a wall hanger I might have to rage quit and let my lore geek go cry in a corner for a while.
__________
So far I've only completed 3 of the 4 leveling quest zones. But one of them is pretty brutal and just seemingly starts offing major lore characters left and right. Right in the feels.
Thrall's retired. Vol'jin, Varian Wrynn, and Tirion Fordring are dead.
(If these are spoilers you're not paying attention.)
This in some ways feels like it's ramping up to be an epic end to the World of Warcraft story arc and the last expansion of the game. But if they do keep it going, what's next? I mean I'm already playing a character that has basically kicked the entire Norse pantheons ass, and I'm not even raiding yet in Legion.
__________
Armor and Weapons crafting have rarely felt worth while for endgame content. Which has always sucked.
__________
Though over all I think this is the most fun I've had playing WoW since Wrath of the Lich King. And from what I hear that seems to be the general consensus. So for now I'm back in Azeroth to stay, and I'm bringing the Doomhammer down on fools.
PvP is a joke, Garrisons 2.0 are even more painful somehow then WoD, world quest grinding is aids. Artifact weapon grinding is painful really and not fun, not to mention how it locks you into a specific spec in an unfun stupid way.
Class balance is a joke right now and the latest hotfix was laughable really. A lot of the story is also really boring especially while leveling.
If this is the best WoW has been in years then there is no hope. We are still in the honeymoon period and pandering to the fanbois currently.
I think this is a fair review, with some Pros and Cons being debatable (as should be).
Opinions on the "gorgeous level design" are so-so, as ALOT of people hate the level design. Level design in Legion is one of the main topics firing the discussion about flying.
-" lack of urgency in the main story line". Yes, unfortunately. But we've seen that with other xpacks...in the pre-release patches and in the trailers everything was raging, while the expansion was rather relaxed even in some of it's main aspects later on. Also Legion's pre-release invasions event had more urgency and was closer to the overall setting of Legion than the xpack is now. I've read people questioning "ok, now that our common enemy # 432 has arrived and is threatening our world...where is the danger??" many times on the forums.
IMO the sum of some cons in total is too heavy to justify the 8.6 score and some major cons are missing (although mentioned in the article).
Like how is it a good design choice for a 14 year old game in which the majority of players probably have like 10+ characters and love the diversity of them to nail everyone down to a single char? How is it a good design choice in a game that has been lacking tanks and healers since FOREVER to further nail down players to a single spec, which for many is probably DD for the leveling process?
They should at least have included AP refunds in case of a respec.
I wouldn't be surprised to some day read a blue statement that this was a big mistake. It's a typical Blizzard thing to push players through many hoops that shouldn't have made it out of the beta in first place and to eventually change them, "seems like we have underestimated...blabla".
Too many things in Legion can't be seriously "working as intended". If so, players might lose interest within a few month. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.
Comments
I can see it now. Gets account wide artifacts then creates an alt character. Later, "Hey, there is nothing for me to do! Lazy Devs".
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
So the overall issue I have with wow is its lack of persistence. Only thing that ends up carrying over is your levels.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
no grinding for weapons!=win! no mythic or that nonsense of elite world first crap prestige i dotn care for none of that. iam already pissed they dotn sell the moose in the shop! which they should!- guess they dont need income that bad-they are doin just fine.
As a crafter the way you have to do quests just to learn recipes really bums me out so I am just playing other games atm.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Legion was amazing to level through the first time, but the story and areas are kinda dull the second time through imo. World Quests really are just like random dailies (that are obviously not daily, just on timers) that quickly grow boring, but at least the rewards switch up.
Suramar is kinda cool in the city, but is incredibly boring to quest in, and I just haven't had the motivation.
All the ramp up to this invasion, and the Legion just doesn't feel as threatening and in your face as I expected. Really feels like they're just a side attraction at this point, off in the background, not really doing much.
The game is fun, but I overhyped it in my head, which I thought I had learned not to do at this point.
I do like the story, combat, zone scaling, order hall and the concept of the world quests, but the game isn't pulling me in as I hoped atm.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
You don't like mmoRPGs. Find another genre.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Reasons why I like it:
- not constantly bombarded by a cash shop or having obstacles thrown at you that can only be solved by a cash shop
- great audio: music, most quests have a voice artist
- often interesting quests
- high replayability, since you can start in any region and have different guildhalls and whatnot
- lots of class and profession related quests
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Right now my shaman is rocking The Doomhammer. THRALL'S DOOMHAMMER. From a lore perspective it's NOT a weapon you discard for a new one. Yet look at all of the previous Legendaries that are now wall hangers. If a new expansion comes along in 2 years and The Doomhammer becomes a wall hanger I might have to rage quit and let my lore geek go cry in a corner for a while.
__________
So far I've only completed 3 of the 4 leveling quest zones. But one of them is pretty brutal and just seemingly starts offing major lore characters left and right. Right in the feels.
Thrall's retired. Vol'jin, Varian Wrynn, and Tirion Fordring are dead.
(If these are spoilers you're not paying attention.)
This in some ways feels like it's ramping up to be an epic end to the World of Warcraft story arc and the last expansion of the game. But if they do keep it going, what's next? I mean I'm already playing a character that has basically kicked the entire Norse pantheons ass, and I'm not even raiding yet in Legion.
__________
Armor and Weapons crafting have rarely felt worth while for endgame content. Which has always sucked.
__________
Though over all I think this is the most fun I've had playing WoW since Wrath of the Lich King. And from what I hear that seems to be the general consensus. So for now I'm back in Azeroth to stay, and I'm bringing the Doomhammer down on fools.
PvP is a joke, Garrisons 2.0 are even more painful somehow then WoD, world quest grinding is aids. Artifact weapon grinding is painful really and not fun, not to mention how it locks you into a specific spec in an unfun stupid way.
Class balance is a joke right now and the latest hotfix was laughable really. A lot of the story is also really boring especially while leveling.
If this is the best WoW has been in years then there is no hope. We are still in the honeymoon period and pandering to the fanbois currently.
Opinions on the "gorgeous level design" are so-so, as ALOT of people hate the level design. Level design in Legion is one of the main topics firing the discussion about flying.
-" lack of urgency in the main story line". Yes, unfortunately. But we've seen that with other xpacks...in the pre-release patches and in the trailers everything was raging, while the expansion was rather relaxed even in some of it's main aspects later on. Also Legion's pre-release invasions event had more urgency and was closer to the overall setting of Legion than the xpack is now. I've read people questioning "ok, now that our common enemy # 432 has arrived and is threatening our world...where is the danger??" many times on the forums.
IMO the sum of some cons in total is too heavy to justify the 8.6 score and some major cons are missing (although mentioned in the article).
Like how is it a good design choice for a 14 year old game in which the majority of players probably have like 10+ characters and love the diversity of them to nail everyone down to a single char? How is it a good design choice in a game that has been lacking tanks and healers since FOREVER to further nail down players to a single spec, which for many is probably DD for the leveling process?
They should at least have included AP refunds in case of a respec.
I wouldn't be surprised to some day read a blue statement that this was a big mistake. It's a typical Blizzard thing to push players through many hoops that shouldn't have made it out of the beta in first place and to eventually change them, "seems like we have underestimated...blabla".
Too many things in Legion can't be seriously "working as intended". If so, players might lose interest within a few month. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.