When will these indie developers stop promising the literal universe. Large scopes require large budgets and long development cycles. 900k might give you Runescape with half the quests.
"It likely doesn't surprise anyone, but between employee salaries, contract fees, medical/dental insurance, license fees, software purchases, rent, other insurances, internet fees, hosting fees, computers and furniture, and taxes, the money won't last forever."
Here's a thought, figure this out BEFORE you kickstarter
This isn't that hard, we forecast costs all the time.
They have known all along, plan has always been to fund and build in successive rounds, likely the same with release, look for a MVP approach that is very lean in features.
They learn from watching how others do it.
Then I'm surprised that people gave them money as there is no guarantee that they can get additional funding.
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$900k is Not Enough, $2-3M More Needed to Complete the Game - Chronicles of Elyria News
The Chronicles of Elyria KickStarter page has been updated with the news that new fund raising strategies to bring three million more dollars into the development coffers. Soulbound's KickStarter project raised $900,000 but according to the update, the 'reality is
Can you blame them when other developments have managed to get funding for trying to create something they want with money they do not yet have . It's entirely possible in this day and age with crowd funding gaining a foothold and some games scoring large sums of money for them to actually think they can get the money too.
Why scoff why do you consider it unlikely when games like Star Citizen manage it. Shouldn't other developers also take a leaf from the Star Citizen's book and plan and promise features that they cannot yet deliver without the injection of funds. There are people out there willing to fund them and let's wish them good luck and hope for their sake they deliver.
Not surprised at this. I am not a software developer however I have been a Network Engineer for 20+ years as well as a business owner and let me tell you, from a purely business perspective, $900k with what they are trying to accomplish is not even in the same realm as enough. He mentioned burn rate. If I had to guess, and yes its a guess, I bet he easily burns $80k-$100k a month. This would give them, with no additional funding, 9-10 months before money is needed. If you look at when the kickstarter ended we are about 3-4 months into that. So he has burned through 45% of his "initial" fund raising. Its about time he started looking for the "next" round.
Not faulting them. They are doing nothing "wrong". I am just simply stating a realistic view on this.
I agree with DMKano. Even $2-$3 million is not enough.
How is it not wrong to ask for money and then tell people that you underestimated costs by over 200%?
Well this is a real shock to literally no one. Enough with this crowd funding, it simply doesn't work for MMORPG's. Let's leave crowdfunding to stuff like fidget cubes and card games with exploding cats and go back to the days where developers had to make a game first and then sell it to us. If the idea isn't good enough to secure investment from people who stand to make a profit, then why I should I put up money for nothing but the hope that someday a decent game is made out of it? Stop being suckers and this internet panhandling by unemployed developers can end already.
Not surprised at this. I am not a software developer however I have been a Network Engineer for 20+ years as well as a business owner and let me tell you, from a purely business perspective, $900k with what they are trying to accomplish is not even in the same realm as enough. He mentioned burn rate. If I had to guess, and yes its a guess, I bet he easily burns $80k-$100k a month. This would give them, with no additional funding, 9-10 months before money is needed. If you look at when the kickstarter ended we are about 3-4 months into that. So he has burned through 45% of his "initial" fund raising. Its about time he started looking for the "next" round.
Not faulting them. They are doing nothing "wrong". I am just simply stating a realistic view on this.
I agree with DMKano. Even $2-$3 million is not enough.
How is it not wrong to ask for money and then tell people that you underestimated costs by over 200%?
Because that doesnt fit into the narrative of "O the big companies wont make these type of games, so well fund some small indie dev with alot of heart to do it instead."
The thing is, alot of these start-ups have no idea how to run a business, they dont have anyone doing the math (and if they do well then fire them because these guys did a shit job) and most importantly they dont have any oversight where someone can say:
"Hey that Giant Permadeath, Sandbox MMO with A full Aging and Scar system sounds really cool, but yeah were going to need a shit load more money, and hey - once we do get that money theres no way were going to turn a profit on this niche-ass game."
Thats the truth, the truth is not everything can get solved or made a reality with a ton of heart. Its hard to make it as a small time dev, and throwing money at a "another good idea" isnt enough to see that idea through to the end. There's work on the other end of that money, and hopefully the brains and the resolve to actually look at a spreadsheet and counter your figures before you go making a kickstarter - cause im sorry going from "We need 900k" to "We need closer to 3 million." isnt a simply calculation or mistake, thats either deception or complete and utter incompetence.
The saddest thing is that they will probably get those 3m funded, and then after 5-6 more year, they will release the shittiest game ever, and all the founders will cry and complain over and over. Mark my words. This isn't the first time this happen and won't be the last. It seems like some people can't stop being ripped off.
Article is misleading. This is nothing new. Good job MMORPG.com. Some people seemed to have been unaware but it has been known there were other funding plans since before kickstarter.
Article is misleading. This is nothing new. Good job MMORPG.com. Some people seemed to have been unaware but it has been known there were other funding plans since before kickstarter.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I mean... anyone with knowledge of game development could see that 900k wasn't even close to what would be needed to complete development. But still, asking for funds to start some initial development on a project in the hopes of scoring more funding later seems questionable to me.
Hmm..
"Your funding goal should be the minimum amount of funds you need to complete your project and make and ship any rewards."
Article is misleading. This is nothing new. Good job MMORPG.com. Some people seemed to have been unaware but it has been known there were other funding plans since before kickstarter.
Link?
Think Eversor1 posted link to one place you can see him talking about it above in thread. But there's more in forums, Reddit AMA and KS comments. I'm not going to search for links to post though since I don't get paid to write these bait articles or do their research. I did that before the Kickstarter and before throwing my money at the screen.
I don't know, the game idea sounds fun but I have never cared for those that are overly ambitious at the start. Add some of the nifty ideas in the future or flesh them out then when you have the money.
I can't take out a loan to build a house for 1m and then grab the plans to a 3m dollar mansion, do some ground work, and just say " I want a bigger house so can I have more"
So many indy games out there trying to do their own thing and trying to kickstart instead of joining or forming a larger company and seeking game investment firms or solid financial backing. In a way I see at is conceited where they think their way is the best, they are gonna do it themselves because they want to be in charge, but please give me money because I can't figure out that aspect of business. It irritates the hell out of me.
I find it hilarious that people complain that the biggest thing thats wrong with the big AAA MMOs is that they are controlled by the "bean counters." That they are not being made with "passion."
Now, we learn that one those MMOs that was being made with "passion" is in financial trouble and all people can say is "where were the bean counters?"
Newsflash, MMOs are not charities. Passion alone is never enough. Theres a reason why the big successful MMOs have good "bean counters."
I'm making an MMO game for $2600 from a successful Kickstarter "Barons of the Galaxy", I plan to include everything I promised. In fact the Beta Test currently has all the mechanics for everything I planned to have in the game but with minimal content, as a Beta Test should.
If I can manage my time, money and expectations I think the million dollar MMO should be able to also
" The reality is that..." that they have no idea what they're doing, and they want others to foot the bill for it.
Now anyone that feels compelled to contest that, realize you're defending a company that siad "give us 900k and we'll make this for you" and they are now saying "wait, it's going to cost $2-3 million on top of that... we think. Give us more."
Post edited by LynxJSA on
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Comments
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/7030/no-longer-backing-coe?page=5#post71247
When will these indie developers stop promising the literal universe. Large scopes require large budgets and long development cycles. 900k might give you Runescape with half the quests.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
sorry
but HAHAHAHAHHAHAH
FOOL... do visa and mastercard charge back, that pure fraud
Why scoff why do you consider it unlikely when games like Star Citizen manage it. Shouldn't other developers also take a leaf from the Star Citizen's book and plan and promise features that they cannot yet deliver without the injection of funds. There are people out there willing to fund them and let's wish them good luck and hope for their sake they deliver.
How is it not wrong to ask for money and then tell people that you underestimated costs by over 200%?
The thing is, alot of these start-ups have no idea how to run a business, they dont have anyone doing the math (and if they do well then fire them because these guys did a shit job) and most importantly they dont have any oversight where someone can say:
"Hey that Giant Permadeath, Sandbox MMO with A full Aging and Scar system sounds really cool, but yeah were going to need a shit load more money, and hey - once we do get that money theres no way were going to turn a profit on this niche-ass game."
Thats the truth, the truth is not everything can get solved or made a reality with a ton of heart. Its hard to make it as a small time dev, and throwing money at a "another good idea" isnt enough to see that idea through to the end. There's work on the other end of that money, and hopefully the brains and the resolve to actually look at a spreadsheet and counter your figures before you go making a kickstarter - cause im sorry going from "We need 900k" to "We need closer to 3 million." isnt a simply calculation or mistake, thats either deception or complete and utter incompetence.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hmm..
"Your funding goal should be the minimum amount of funds you need to complete your project and make and ship any rewards."
I can't take out a loan to build a house for 1m and then grab the plans to a 3m dollar mansion, do some ground work, and just say " I want a bigger house so can I have more"
So many indy games out there trying to do their own thing and trying to kickstart instead of joining or forming a larger company and seeking game investment firms or solid financial backing. In a way I see at is conceited where they think their way is the best, they are gonna do it themselves because they want to be in charge, but please give me money because I can't figure out that aspect of business. It irritates the hell out of me.
Now, we learn that one those MMOs that was being made with "passion" is in financial trouble and all people can say is "where were the bean counters?"
Newsflash, MMOs are not charities. Passion alone is never enough. Theres a reason why the big successful MMOs have good "bean counters."
If I can manage my time, money and expectations I think the million dollar MMO should be able to also
http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/ An MMO game I created, solo. It's live now and absolutely free to play!
Now anyone that feels compelled to contest that, realize you're defending a company that siad "give us 900k and we'll make this for you" and they are now saying "wait, it's going to cost $2-3 million on top of that... we think. Give us more."
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?