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"Dial M for MOBA: Why battle arenas are replacing MMOs"

nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
http://www.gameskinny.com/pjquw/dial-m-for-moba-why-battle-arenas-are-replacing-mmos

and i quote:

"Move over WoW - there's a new three letter word on the throne, and it isn't "kek". LoL is the face of the new age, and I'm here to tell you how the old guard fell - and how MOBAs stole MMO's thunder."

"But that core philosophy of survive and smash is still there - and while the MMO legions may still be around, it's hard to argue that MOBA isn't the new face of the online grind. Every day more and more MMO players fall off, to return only casually (if at all), and MOBAs are growing stronger than ever."

"MOBAs give us that same feeling of power, that same satisfaction of "gain levels, gain gear, and go whomp people and things that need whomping", but they do it much faster and with much less commitment. "

"Most importantly, MOBAs let us whomp in new and different ways - we aren't just spamming various Rend clones on various Bandit clones anymore. Core philosophy aside, the most prominent MOBAs are still fairly unique in identity despite having obvious leaders. While Dota 2 and League of Legends are certainly the front runners, companies are still putting out unique content and gameplay mechanics like the third person MOBA SMITE - and that's not even mentioning the recent MOBA-esque/FPS mergers like Overwatch, Paladins, and Paragon, among others."
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Comments

  • VicodinTacoVicodinTaco Member UncommonPosts: 804
    Indeed, I play MOBA's because they present a challenge.  Look at WoW for example.  Say you want to make an alt and want to challenge yourself and go find some higher level quests.  Well guess what you can't lol.  You can't accept quests more than 1 level higher than you so if you want any story you basically walk around and 1 skill everything for 100 freakin levels.  Almost all mmorpgs seems to be like this now for at least such a large part of the game that they lose my attention.
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,933
    edited September 2016
    MMORPG just have bad gameplay in general.  Each match of MOBA is going to be engaging.  How levels of kill 10 these, collect X, deliver X before you run into something engaging?  Rewards for boring stuff only appeals to a certain segment of gamers.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    MMORPG just have bad gameplay in general.  Each match of MOBA is going to be engaging.  How levels of kill 10 these, collect X, deliver X before you run into something engaging?  Rewards for boring stuff only appeals to a certain segment of gamers.
    I think it also is that MMOs fails with PvP badly, and more gamers actually like PvP better (even if most MMOs pretend it isn't so since most MMOers PvE, they miss that the real reason for that is that MMOs have acceptable PvE but lousy PvP).

    When you start a round of any Moba it can go either way, each side have the potential to win. If some players clash in most MMOs the fight is decided by their stats before it even have started.

    MMOs need some kind of progression, it is more or less part of the genre but that progression can't totally destroy the gameplay if MMOs want to attract more players.

    Also, MMOs have a problem with zerging, something that is easy when you have more then 12 or so players fighting the same battle. It isn't fun but you generally earn far more XP and loot in the same time that way so most players zerg anyways, and a small group have generally zero chance against a zerg. That one could easily be fixed by awarding far more rewards for small groups then people in zergs but so far have MMOs been lazy there.

    Large scale battles have the possibility to be awesome, and that would blow the mobas away but at the moment the 2 standard zergs just run chaotic at eachother and that isn't good enough. MMOs usually have a rather planed group mechanic for small groups but not for huge battles, I think new ways to handle this would increase the potential of MMO PvP a lot. Maybe with commanders that have a RTS view similar to Natural selection and using combat formations (shield walls, co-ordinated mounted charges and so on).

    Anyways, Mobas currently have better PvP, that is why Lol have so many players while games like Wow have relatively few PvPers.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Loke666 said:


    Large scale battles have the possibility to be awesome
    Possibility is not certainty.

    There *are* large scale battle games like WW2 online, and Planetside 2. None has impact anywhere close to MOBAs.

    And it is not just about gameplay, but as the article has pointed out, about convenience too.


  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,522
    edited September 2016
    Yea, it's why I continue to be puzzled by people pushing for PvP MMOs.  The format in general is just terrible for it.  Even in terms of "resource management", PvP in MMOs is a big fail because it still just boils down to whoever has the most time or can put together the largest zerg at best (and P2W at worse).
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,527
    Yes, LoL is popular but that hasn't changed anything in regards to the MMO market. You see, that's like saying the boating industry is picking up and no one will buy cars anymore. MOBA's and MMO's are completely different games and thus they interest different types of players. I really wish people would stop comparing them.

  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,666
    Why the attraction?  First is F2P, it's the second line of text on the LoL home page.  They tell me that LoL has 100 Million registered users, so what.  That means it has 1 Million Paying Customers.  LoL is close to earning $1 Billion in a year.  That means that those 1 Million Paying Customers are spending on average $1.000 on LoL.  Those other 99 Million P4F Gamers don't spend a cent, that is the only real reason of importance.

    The next reason those 99 Million P4F Gamers didn't come from MMORPGs, so there is no significant loss to MOBAs (MMO industry estimates that less than .25 Million MOBA gamers came from MMOs).  Therefore MOBA gamers never were MMORPG gamers to begin with.  Like @nariusseldon said, there are MMOs that have similar experiences, but don't share MOBA numbers.

    MOBA is the online experience of a basketball game.  A team eSport, that is quick and easy.

    But make any MOBA a Subscription game and its numbers will follow MMOs.  What keeps MOBAs making money?  Gambling.  Like all sports, those who gamble on eSports are making money.  So they can afford to spend more than $1.000 (More like $100.000 by so called MOBA whales) per year on a MOBA.

    Pardon any spelling errors
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    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
    It costs money to play.  Therefore P2W.

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,157
    edited September 2016
    Replacing mmorpg's?

    IMHO mmorpg's are and have always been niche. I think you and the author are barking up the wrong tree.

    IMHO its more about moba's replacing traditional shooters and RTS's for people's pvp fix rather than mmorpg's.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 10,992
    laserit said:
    Replacing mmorpg's?

    IMHO mmorpg's are and have always been niche. I think you and the author are barking up the wrong tree.

    IMHO its more about moba's replacing traditional shooters and RTS's for people's pvp fix rather than mmorpg's.
     imo, there is very little crossover between the MOBA and the MMO genres, obviously some play both, i don't think thats the norm though.
    I've played many different MMO's over the years, had a lot of fun, still do, but as for playing MOBA's, i find they don't have the fun type of gameplay that i expect from a game , indeed, the PVP in MOBA's isn't of a type that i enjoy, perhaps after all this time of playing MMO's i have higher expectations, maybe if i'd never played an MMO before i might have found MOBA's to be more entertaining? somehow, i doubt it. :o
  • kertinkertin Member UncommonPosts: 206
    I quite hate PVP in MMOs :), if I want PVP, I'll play MOBA or some FPS games like CS:GO...when I play MMO game, all I want is quality PVE content (it would explain why did I like for example Vanguard). I loved even WoW..Strange thing is I was fine with WoW world PVP, it was cool, I just wasn't into arenas or BGs. Other thing is MOBAs require quick reflexes and let's be honest, there are lots of old buddies around on this forum so yeah, that's it - MMO's fits much better to those ppl (with exceptions like Blade & Soul)
  • PAL-18PAL-18 Member UncommonPosts: 844
    edited September 2016
    Good news for MMO gamers,i wish those " much faster and with much less commitment," peeps left earlier tho.
    But why those peeps played MMO´s in the first place if they hated MMO´s so much ? :o

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  • SirAgravaineSirAgravaine Member RarePosts: 518
    edited September 2016
    Rhoklaw said:
    Yes, LoL is popular but that hasn't changed anything in regards to the MMO market. You see, that's like saying the boating industry is picking up and no one will buy cars anymore. MOBA's and MMO's are completely different games and thus they interest different types of players. I really wish people would stop comparing them.
    They are probably not going to stop comparing the two genres. Why? Because you are wrong, they are similar, and they interest millions of players that enjoy both genres. I am one of them, I know.

    In fact, every player that I play MOBAs with has played or is currently playing an MMORPG. I cannot 100% say the opposite is true...but that is simply because MMORPGs take up a lot of time and people that exclusively play MMORPGs....exclusively play them.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Rhoklaw said:
    Yes, LoL is popular but that hasn't changed anything in regards to the MMO market. 
    Only if none of those 100M players who are active in LoL did not switch from WoW, and cancel their subscription.

    Don't tell me no MMO players have stopped playing MMOs and they play MOBA now. 

    Not every player on the planet separate out the two genre. They are both online games to many. 
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Is this another issue of the Day Late Dollar Short Newspaper?  Perhaps it is the Behind the Times.

    This is a not kidding sherlock bit.   IF someone loves pvp and has a choice between a pure PVP game like and moba or a mmoRPG, they naturally pick moba.  It is a more direct experience for them. No brainer.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,160
    Completely different genres.

    Honestly if you were able to compare time played among the genres, the picture would be far different. 
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,433
    edited September 2016
    Well... I could say "Since when people who play mobas plays mmorpg or stopped with mmorpg to focus on mobas? Since when one denies the other? That's the same thing as saying people stopped playing fighting games in favor to sports titles."

    could say that, but I won't.


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  • Joseph_KerrJoseph_Kerr Member RarePosts: 1,111
    That's like comparing Battlefield to Bioshock, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I played a MOBA once (I think it was LoL), but it just felt like a minigame to me and I haven't played a MOBA since.
  • NanulakNanulak Member UncommonPosts: 372
    As scholastic aptitude decreases the popularity of MOBA's increases.  I wonder if there is a correlation here.  Workforce participation rates also seem to correlate.  I just don't know.. society as a whole is in decline and MOBA's are growing. 

    From my perspective I think the internet in general was released on the world without studying the negative implications.  We will eventually figure it out but we will have quite a few hurdles to overcome before that happens.  Including quick fix games like MOBA's.

    Nanulak

  • esc-joconnoresc-joconnor Member RarePosts: 1,096
    It looks Riot are going to make an MMORPG now, so I think that says all that needs saying.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,901
    I'll skip straight to the TLDR... attention span :)
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  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,773
    The kids PvP, that's why. simple as that. There is no way on gods green earth are you going to get a 13-21 year old to sit down and grind quest for days just to be able to grind dungeons. That style is dead like Kodak.
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Oh geez. Faux smart people are making dumb f%$k generalizations already. I thought I'd be able to get in on the convo before it happened. Dah well. 
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,186
    Nyctelios said:
    Well... I could say "Since when people who play mobas plays mmorpg or stopped with mmorpg to focus on mobas? Since when one denies the other? That's the same thing as saying people stopped playing fighting games in favor to sports titles."

    could say that, but I won't.


    That's the piece that seems absent from the article. Without data showing the migration, it's little more than a tenuous assumption. 
  • MalathoosMalathoos Member UncommonPosts: 147
    MMO's have no real life following. The only people who make money off of them are gold farmers and game companies. Look at MOBA's they have a real life presence, they rent out stadiums. There are teams and national competitions.

    While MMO's are fun in all the fictional novels about people who play them society has some type of affect. They pay bills by selling items, being famous in the game is being famous in real life. There is no connection, while MOBA's have a real life  connection.

    image
  • esc-joconnoresc-joconnor Member RarePosts: 1,096
    Malathoos said:
    MMO's have no real life following. The only people who make money off of them are gold farmers and game companies. Look at MOBA's they have a real life presence, they rent out stadiums. There are teams and national competitions.

    While MMO's are fun in all the fictional novels about people who play them society has some type of affect. They pay bills by selling items, being famous in the game is being famous in real life. There is no connection, while MOBA's have a real life  connection.
    I don't think being watched makes anything more valid. 
    MOBAs are pretty simple games, fun for sure, but simple. MMORPGs really have no limit to their possible complexity and depth. An MMORPG could come out that would be mind blowing. The problem we have now is the quality of the MMORPGs on the market.
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