Question to the OP: What is motivating you for wanting to create a western themed MMO?
I am not speaking for the OP but I feel compelled to answer.
Having watched a few documentaries on things like Oklahoma Land rush, first transcontinental railroad as well as some outstanding movies and TV shows I can see how settling the west can be extreemly compelling as game play. Finding oil, finding gold, getting railroads in with settlements along the way, fending off horse thieves, open grasing, raising animals, settling land. its all great history
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I suppose, one solution to the harsh death penalties, could be to make assets family or corporation owned, so even if one or a few dies, the assets are still in control of the same group of players that owned it in the first place.
I suppose, one solution to the harsh death penalties, could be to make assets family or corporation owned, so even if one or a few dies, the assets are still in control of the same group of players that owned it in the first place.
Having played Darkfall for about 4 years I have completely given up on there being any hope at all between pvp and pve. they need to be completely separate in my view.
A lot of great ideas but it never fails someone in the pvp world will find a way to exploit it so that they can pick on pve players
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I think a time out on the account with the offending character serving jail time.
so after working all day you get to leave the office! you drive home and crank up your computer to log into your game to......what? do nothing?
Spend time being in jail lol. See the thing is you only get punished when you murder outside of focused PvP... and get caught.
Problem with MMORPG is that people who gank can take your time but normally you can't take their away. Even if you kill them they are right back harassing. Even those who help get tired of helping fight off Pks.
I think a time out on the account with the offending character serving jail time.
so after working all day you get to leave the office! you drive home and crank up your computer to log into your game to......what? do nothing?
Spend time being in jail lol. See the thing is you only get punished when you murder outside of focused PvP... and get caught.
Problem with MMORPG is that people who gank can take your time but normally you can't take their away. Even if you kill them they are right back harassing. Even those who help get tired of helping fight off Pks.
yeah I am not on board
This is a game in which a feature can be disabled if desired. It just makes a lot more sense to me to turn it off. Nobody wants to be harassed and nobody wants to have their account in jail for a week so it seems pointless to me.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I would try a western mmo if it was a finished product being sold. Wouldn't pay for Kickstarter or early access though, I bought into two EA games and regret both.
I think a time out on the account with the offending character serving jail time.
so after working all day you get to leave the office! you drive home and crank up your computer to log into your game to......what? do nothing?
Spend time being in jail lol. See the thing is you only get punished when you murder outside of focused PvP... and get caught.
Problem with MMORPG is that people who gank can take your time but normally you can't take their away. Even if you kill them they are right back harassing. Even those who help get tired of helping fight off Pks.
yeah I am not on board
This is a game in which a feature can be disabled if desired. It just makes a lot more sense to me to turn it off. Nobody wants to be harassed and nobody wants to have their account in jail for a week so it seems pointless to me.
A week is a bit much. The point is to allow intrigue without ganking running rampant.
Another way to do it is that if you murder outside of the scope of intended PvP you can be exiled if the world is big enough. Get sent a random direct hours away and disable fast travel for awhile if it's in the game. That way you can't return right away if killed by defenders.
I think a time out on the account with the offending character serving jail time.
so after working all day you get to leave the office! you drive home and crank up your computer to log into your game to......what? do nothing?
Spend time being in jail lol. See the thing is you only get punished when you murder outside of focused PvP... and get caught.
Problem with MMORPG is that people who gank can take your time but normally you can't take their away. Even if you kill them they are right back harassing. Even those who help get tired of helping fight off Pks.
yeah I am not on board
This is a game in which a feature can be disabled if desired. It just makes a lot more sense to me to turn it off. Nobody wants to be harassed and nobody wants to have their account in jail for a week so it seems pointless to me.
A week is a bit much. The point is to allow intrigue without ganking running rampant.
Another way to do it is that if you murder outside of the scope of intended PvP you can be exiled if the world is big enough. Get sent a random direct hours away and disable fast travel for awhile if it's in the game. That way you can't return right away if killed by defenders.
so if you move the 'bar of severity' in one direction (easy) too much you have too much ganking, the in the other direction (hard) you have pvp players who are bored.
for me any location on that sliding scale that would be of interest to a pvp ganker would as a side effect make me not want to play the game because ganking would be too easy.
so again it appears to be a system that doesnt work for either parties.
its basically nearly impossible to make a system in which the system allows one to slap another person who does not want to be slap and leave both parties pleased with the system
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The open world PvP is a definite turn-off, and there's not much appeal for hunting animals. Now, if you toss in the concept of aliens or dinosaurs or something to hunt (see Radio Ranch (serial) or Brisco County (TV) or Valley of Gwangi (movie)), and it might help the interest level.
But a game with modern firearms could be good, especially if there would be realistic ammunition supplies (and costs). Maybe even a mash-up of all sorts of crazy mostly non-human opponents.
As an idea, the American west just has people killing people. I can get that from any WWII game, with much more interesting technology. I need a lot more than that, even if it has to venture far from historical realism.
Also, I'm curious why restrict the setting to post Transcontinental Rail? There wasn't only 1, just 1 was first. Building that could be broken into several interesting guild-level projects -- design, survey, bid, build.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
The open world PvP is a definite turn-off, and there's not much appeal for hunting animals. Now, if you toss in the concept of aliens or dinosaurs or something to hunt (see Radio Ranch (serial) or Brisco County (TV) or Valley of Gwangi (movie)), and it might help the interest level. ...
what the F! did people not eat back in frontier days?
you might be rather surprised at how challenging and fun it can be to hunt a deer for example if the code is put in well for it.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
@SEANMCAD: I'd like to have something to do with railroad and/or telegraph line building but I'm still working out the mechanics by which something like that could work (I welcome suggestions).
@Gamer54321: Do you think having a cooldown for turning in bounties, whether for a specific player or for any player, would alleviate the problem? Perhaps also making the sheriffs pursue you like the marshalls could also make bounty farming more difficult.
On your second post, I have always liked Western genre of film and the MMORPG genre of games, so it's natural for me to want to combine them.
On your third post, that could work, but it would have to be implemented in such a way as to prevent muling and still allow outlaws to earn a profit from killing people.
@Vermillion_Raventhal: I really like this idea, and I agree that a weeklong lockout is not warranted for anyone except those who have reached the absolute maximum amount of unlawfulness.
@Mendel: @SEANMCAD put it very well - in a game without mythical/magical creatures, the PvE development focus would be on big game, which can be very intersting and challenging when the work is put into them (a good example of what it could be like is the scene in the Leonardo DiCaprio movie 'The Revenant' in which he fights a grizzly bear in the 1820s frontier).
A week is a bit much. The point is to allow intrigue without ganking running rampant. .
Put pvp as an option .. no more ganking running rampant. A solution used in many games. There is no need to reinvent the wheel.
Seem like you are with circular argument. Obviously if want to allow ganking but discouraging it... how does removing that option to gank get me there? I have seen this argument over and over. Why not just remove what you're trying to limit? Because obviously I want some ganking to happen and be possible.
I have tossed around this idea a bit and had some suggestions. In no particular order.
Have a faction based system. You start neutral and then can either do good tasks or bad to increase or decrease your infamy. The result is the Law and Outlaw factions. Those are Teams ala wow but you could always switch your char back by grinding the opposite tasks or doing good deeds. Law can not attack Law and vice versa.
Have 20 towns; 5 Outlaw, 5 Law and 10 neutral (i.e. both are allowed) Have NPC guards in the faction towns that kos their enemies to keep it "somewhat safe" Tough guards, no nancy farmables, just enough to dissuade others from coming in and causing problems. The starter town for all with beginner quests and introductory tasks is neutral but no pvp is allowed. The second town is also along these lines
Have a System much like swg or ultima online where you can build where you like outside of towns. Make it sandboxy in that there are nearby mines and forests and horse and cattle herds for you to farm/trap/lasso and add to your stock. You can farm the materials or money to buy a starter home and upgrade it. Add fences for pastures, plant crops, set up your crafting stations or simply use it as storage and a place for friends to stay while you form posses. Make it so you can upgrade or add certain things, wells, a granary a barn.
NPC's are a must in the form of bandits, lawmen, regular townsfolk, law and outlaw aligned natives, wild animals etc. They would have static spawn points based on geography that fits the theme. I.E. the woods where bears wolves and snakes roam or a small village with mostly peasants but some lawmen all farmable npc's.
It has to have dynamic weather, seasons and a day/night cycle which influences spawn rates. The bears are more aggressive in the fall or spring and nonexistant in winter. The bandits run rampant in the summer along the roads. something along those lines.
It is sandboxy so include some survival. Temperature so more clothes are required in the winter. Food and drink are required by the player. Nothing too focused where you spend a lot of time as a noob buying bread and finding a nice stream, but enough that you can't be self sufficient without it. Also this gives farmers a purpose in life other than a source of income.
Allow market places in the various towns where players may sell their hard earned goods/loot/crafted items. Use an auction house style with a player driven economy that can range from dropped loot to the highest tier crafted items.
Make mounts upgradable but still just versions of the same old horse. Everyone has a horse, but some are faster, have more health or more stamina. Throw some breeding in maybe ala ark without all the overdone ridiculous stats. These should be slight improvements not game breaking differences yet enough for people to strive for. Add wagons that can be hitched to horses to transport more goods, a source of travelling storage.
If housing isnt instanced how do you deter people camping your home or stealing your hard earned veggies. Well make it so they simply can't. While it would be fun to defend your homestead this would be too hard to balance I think.
Add a railroad system to connect most of the major towns. Have the landing areas designated pvp free zones, though this could be hilarious with.
I don't know, just some ideas I had to turn an old style SWG game into a wild west theme while adding some sandboxy elements where crafters and builders could be a part of the economy and adventures could pve for progression and pvpers had many open world places to fight but it wasnt required.
A week is a bit much. The point is to allow intrigue without ganking running rampant. .
Put pvp as an option .. no more ganking running rampant. A solution used in many games. There is no need to reinvent the wheel.
Seem like you are with circular argument. Obviously if want to allow ganking but discouraging it... how does removing that option to gank get me there? I have seen this argument over and over. Why not just remove what you're trying to limit? Because obviously I want some ganking to happen and be possible.
Put pvp as an option still allow ganking ... obviously .. with the caveat that only those who are willing to be ganked will be ganked.
Or are you suggesting that you should gank players .. who are playing games for entertainment ... whether they like it or not?
@TheFunky1: I've never really been a fan of NPC-controlled faction systems, but that could definitely work if most players do. As for the non-instanced housing, that was to give carpenters a strong source of income (building progressively better fencing, locks, defenses, etc), and even perhaps adding a new dimension to the game with crooked carpenters installing fake bars on your fence so they can come back later, etc. However, I can see how a lot of players wouldn't find that fun, so instanced housing may (unfortunately) be the way to go.
Thanks for taking the time to do a write up on the gameplay concept.
Considering I've played some games that are loosely similar in the past I'd at least give this idea a try. However FFA, no safe zone, and full loss death all combined are the tipping point. Also add in lengthy progression, which wasn't discussed, and I'd have a difficult time having and long term fun.
I'd rather have some safe zones towns, item loss or perma losses with some option to mitigate or recover from, and possibly a faction-y based pvp to lessen random gank pvp like it exists in "survival" PvP games. Also if progression was rather quick of getting to a soft cap in 20 hrs and hard cap in 1 month, I can see the harshness of pvp, even if perma-death, could be rather bearable. That would be a lot less of an MMORPG though.
<snip> @Mendel: @SEANMCAD put it very well - in a game without mythical/magical creatures, the PvE development focus would be on big game, which can be very intersting and challenging when the work is put into them (a good example of what it could be like is the scene in the Leonardo DiCaprio movie 'The Revenant' in which he fights a grizzly bear in the 1820s frontier).
I think you missed my point. I am just not interested in hunting wildlife as a means to progress. I need some kind of PvE target that is equipped to provide a fair fight. Claws vs Pistol? Pistol wins. Fangs vs Rifle? Rifle wins. Even if you miss, the noise and smell would drive most natural animals off. Gunpowder based ranged weapons essentially took much of the 'danger' out of wild animals. It simply becomes a Big Game hunting sim, without lore. (Yes, people did get killed by wildlife, but that doesn't make it the basis of good game).
Another thing. How would it take multiple players to hunt Big Game? Lots of lousy shots? Respawn rate faster than a shooting gallery? Caddies for my gun bag? Using big game hunting as a PvE lure seems to take the multiplayer aspect out of the MMORPG.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Comments
Having watched a few documentaries on things like Oklahoma Land rush, first transcontinental railroad as well as some outstanding movies and TV shows I can see how settling the west can be extreemly compelling as game play. Finding oil, finding gold, getting railroads in with settlements along the way, fending off horse thieves, open grasing, raising animals, settling land. its all great history
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
A lot of great ideas but it never fails someone in the pvp world will find a way to exploit it so that they can pick on pve players
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Wurm Online
Space Engineers
7 Days to Die
all have far more features and content then AAA games and all small teams. I have more examples if you like
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Also I didn't ready your specifics about the game because I wasn't interested.
Problem with MMORPG is that people who gank can take your time but normally you can't take their away. Even if you kill them they are right back harassing. Even those who help get tired of helping fight off Pks.
This is a game in which a feature can be disabled if desired. It just makes a lot more sense to me to turn it off. Nobody wants to be harassed and nobody wants to have their account in jail for a week so it seems pointless to me.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Another way to do it is that if you murder outside of the scope of intended PvP you can be exiled if the world is big enough. Get sent a random direct hours away and disable fast travel for awhile if it's in the game. That way you can't return right away if killed by defenders.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
for me any location on that sliding scale that would be of interest to a pvp ganker would as a side effect make me not want to play the game because ganking would be too easy.
so again it appears to be a system that doesnt work for either parties.
its basically nearly impossible to make a system in which the system allows one to slap another person who does not want to be slap and leave both parties pleased with the system
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
But a game with modern firearms could be good, especially if there would be realistic ammunition supplies (and costs). Maybe even a mash-up of all sorts of crazy mostly non-human opponents.
As an idea, the American west just has people killing people. I can get that from any WWII game, with much more interesting technology. I need a lot more than that, even if it has to venture far from historical realism.
Also, I'm curious why restrict the setting to post Transcontinental Rail? There wasn't only 1, just 1 was first. Building that could be broken into several interesting guild-level projects -- design, survey, bid, build.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
you might be rather surprised at how challenging and fun it can be to hunt a deer for example if the code is put in well for it.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
@Gamer54321: Do you think having a cooldown for turning in bounties, whether for a specific player or for any player, would alleviate the problem? Perhaps also making the sheriffs pursue you like the marshalls could also make bounty farming more difficult.
On your second post, I have always liked Western genre of film and the MMORPG genre of games, so it's natural for me to want to combine them.
On your third post, that could work, but it would have to be implemented in such a way as to prevent muling and still allow outlaws to earn a profit from killing people.
@Vermillion_Raventhal: I really like this idea, and I agree that a weeklong lockout is not warranted for anyone except those who have reached the absolute maximum amount of unlawfulness.
@Mendel: @SEANMCAD put it very well - in a game without mythical/magical creatures, the PvE development focus would be on big game, which can be very intersting and challenging when the work is put into them (a good example of what it could be like is the scene in the Leonardo DiCaprio movie 'The Revenant' in which he fights a grizzly bear in the 1820s frontier).
Have a faction based system. You start neutral and then can either do good tasks or bad to increase or decrease your infamy. The result is the Law and Outlaw factions. Those are Teams ala wow but you could always switch your char back by grinding the opposite tasks or doing good deeds. Law can not attack Law and vice versa.
Have 20 towns; 5 Outlaw, 5 Law and 10 neutral (i.e. both are allowed) Have NPC guards in the faction towns that kos their enemies to keep it "somewhat safe" Tough guards, no nancy farmables, just enough to dissuade others from coming in and causing problems. The starter town for all with beginner quests and introductory tasks is neutral but no pvp is allowed. The second town is also along these lines
Have a System much like swg or ultima online where you can build where you like outside of towns. Make it sandboxy in that there are nearby mines and forests and horse and cattle herds for you to farm/trap/lasso and add to your stock. You can farm the materials or money to buy a starter home and upgrade it. Add fences for pastures, plant crops, set up your crafting stations or simply use it as storage and a place for friends to stay while you form posses. Make it so you can upgrade or add certain things, wells, a granary a barn.
NPC's are a must in the form of bandits, lawmen, regular townsfolk, law and outlaw aligned natives, wild animals etc. They would have static spawn points based on geography that fits the theme. I.E. the woods where bears wolves and snakes roam or a small village with mostly peasants but some lawmen all farmable npc's.
It has to have dynamic weather, seasons and a day/night cycle which influences spawn rates. The bears are more aggressive in the fall or spring and nonexistant in winter. The bandits run rampant in the summer along the roads. something along those lines.
It is sandboxy so include some survival. Temperature so more clothes are required in the winter. Food and drink are required by the player. Nothing too focused where you spend a lot of time as a noob buying bread and finding a nice stream, but enough that you can't be self sufficient without it. Also this gives farmers a purpose in life other than a source of income.
Allow market places in the various towns where players may sell their hard earned goods/loot/crafted items. Use an auction house style with a player driven economy that can range from dropped loot to the highest tier crafted items.
Make mounts upgradable but still just versions of the same old horse. Everyone has a horse, but some are faster, have more health or more stamina. Throw some breeding in maybe ala ark without all the overdone ridiculous stats. These should be slight improvements not game breaking differences yet enough for people to strive for. Add wagons that can be hitched to horses to transport more goods, a source of travelling storage.
If housing isnt instanced how do you deter people camping your home or stealing your hard earned veggies. Well make it so they simply can't. While it would be fun to defend your homestead this would be too hard to balance I think.
Add a railroad system to connect most of the major towns. Have the landing areas designated pvp free zones, though this could be hilarious with.
I don't know, just some ideas I had to turn an old style SWG game into a wild west theme while adding some sandboxy elements where crafters and builders could be a part of the economy and adventures could pve for progression and pvpers had many open world places to fight but it wasnt required.
Or are you suggesting that you should gank players .. who are playing games for entertainment ... whether they like it or not?
Considering I've played some games that are loosely similar in the past I'd at least give this idea a try. However FFA, no safe zone, and full loss death all combined are the tipping point. Also add in lengthy progression, which wasn't discussed, and I'd have a difficult time having and long term fun.
I'd rather have some safe zones towns, item loss or perma losses with some option to mitigate or recover from, and possibly a faction-y based pvp to lessen random gank pvp like it exists in "survival" PvP games. Also if progression was rather quick of getting to a soft cap in 20 hrs and hard cap in 1 month, I can see the harshness of pvp, even if perma-death, could be rather bearable. That would be a lot less of an MMORPG though.
Another thing. How would it take multiple players to hunt Big Game? Lots of lousy shots? Respawn rate faster than a shooting gallery? Caddies for my gun bag? Using big game hunting as a PvE lure seems to take the multiplayer aspect out of the MMORPG.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.