MMOs before WoW? In no order none of mine match yours. Not to say your list is bad, I just prefer mine
Lineage
Lineage 2
FFXI
Ragnarok Online
Asherons Call
FFXI was technically before and after WoW, we got it about the same time as it. I agree it was freaking amazing though. I'd put it on my list. (It launched in Japan in 2002 and took until late 2004 to globally launch, wow was late 2004)
AC was also amazing.
While I love everything on your list I'd still have UO, EQ, and SWG in there on mine, with the other two I mentioned you having on yours.
I played Ultima,for it's time and EQ were solid games,i never got much interested in them but yes they were solid.
I lasted one day in DAOC,thought it was a very weak game and SWG,well might seem ok i expect a lot more from that type of game,so much more that no mere mortal of a developer could pull it off.
Personally FFXI was far superior and i never even much like FFVII the game that supposedly set off the franchise.
I tried FFXI ,it was everything i wanted missing a couple pieces but when compared to other games,for me there is no comparison.Even after Wow to this day i still play FFXI and consider it a much better,more diverse and just more FUN than WOW.
I understand everyone is entitled to their own opinion but for me,i cannot stand chasing around yellow markers over npc heads,it looks wrong in every possible sense.FFXI never did that,is i was like whew finally someone that makes a game that makes sense.
To this day i believe that if FFXI was simply a PC built game,it would have left Wow in the dust.What Square pulled off for the PS2 is mind blowing amazing.I look back to those days and Blizzard couldn't even convert anything to console,they were hiring other businesses to do it for them.
Here is another thought,how many games can you comfortably play at 500+ ping?Well FFXI you could and at times i even hit 600+ pings.How many games allowed a multicultural interaction,only one FFXI NOBODY else because of it's language translator.
Considering i would not play any otehr game other than EQ2 after FFXI ,my list would be short...
1 FFXi
2FFXi
3FFXI
4FFXi
5EQ2
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Meridian 59 really started the MMO thing, when it released there were just MUDs and it invented a lot of features modern MMO still uses. Of course it suffers when you compare it with games 7 years newer (M59 launched in '96) but for it's time it was a great game and I am not so sure EQ would have been the same game without it.
Lineage even now have 3 million subscribers, it was a great game for it's time and it had and still have more players then all the games on Garrets list put together.
And I feel that Asherons call also would deserve a number on the list, it was a rather interesting game.
MMOs before WoW? In no order none of mine match yours. Not to say your list is bad, I just prefer mine
Lineage
Lineage 2
FFXI
Ragnarok Online
Asherons Call
FFXI was technically before and after WoW, we got it about the same time as it. I agree it was freaking amazing though. I'd put it on my list. (It launched in Japan in 2002 and took until late 2004 to globally launch, wow was late 2004)
AC was also amazing.
While I love everything on your list I'd still have UO, EQ, and SWG in there on mine, with the other two I mentioned you having on yours.
Just for clarity sake FFXI for all was out Oct. 2003 (PC) and March 2004 (ps2) for NA. I think EU got it Sep. 04 and only on PC. So even at it's latest it was pre-WoW.
FFXI was me and 5 of my friends 5+ year crack and i have yet to play a game that ever came close to it. At the core it did a lot of EQ did but also quite a bit original. Its also one of like 5 MMOs to this day that still has a sub fee.
I am also surprised a few big titles like XI/AC/Rag/Lineage or Runescape did not make the list over Shadowbane. The rest are all pretty huge and make complete sense.
The top 5 *before* WoW? Add AC, AO, EQ2 and Meridian 59 to the list and you have covered 99% of the combined MMORPG time played before WoW. And that's including the 3 week prior release of EQ2 as somehow significant. A pretty pointless article / list, considering the small number of candidates.
I'm guessing you didn't play a lot of MMOs in the 90s and early 2ks.
The Realm, Lineage, Lineage 2, RuneScape, Earth and Beyond, Final Fantasy XI, Ragnarok Online, Eve, Horizons, Toontown, City of Heroes, and Dofus just to name a few.
For those bemoaning their favorite game being left off the "List" realize this is largely based on titles the author played.
I only experienced 2 of those titles, DAOC and SB and while I loved the former, the latter sucked balls IMO despite having several clever ideas I enjoyed.
So my top 5 pre-WOW MMORPGs based on what I've played are:
1) EVE (though I didn't play it until 2007)
2) DAOC (2002 - 2004 were such grand years)
3) Lineage 1
4) Lineage 2
5) EQ2 ( didnt try this one until 2012)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
SWG was so bad. So, soooo bad. People need to take off the rose tinted glasses. I remember the day I dropped that title. I was on a planet and needed to get to a city. One border of this city was a waterfall. I walked up the 90 degree waterfall. WALKED UP THE WATERFALL. It had no concept of what was and wasn't reasonable navigable terrain. You could literally point at your destination, autorun, and walk away to grab a soda. So exploration was right out the window.
Mobs didn't quite grasp the concept of line of sight. Combat was chunky. To call it terrible would be an improvement. So combat was right out the window.
All that was left was crafting. And what I recall from the crafting was... meh. Just... meh. But crafting alone didn't make a game worth forking over $$ for given the above tripe they foisted on the public.
And Shadowbane was basically more of the same. Griefer Online was more like it. Yeah, open world PvP seemed nice but there was no way to manage your city in a way that the enemies couldn't game the system. The only decent thing that game had which should've been adopted by MMOs since was the concept that guilds could swear to guilds.
But really, all I have to say about why those two should not be on the list over AC is this.
AC is still running. In fact it wasn't until just a year or two ago that the monthly content updates were halted. That game outlasted SWG and Shadowbane by a decade and counting.
Anyone who called SWG crafting "Meh" needs to be flogged. It was the most in depth, complicated and time consuming crafting system ever used in a game. It made the impatient cry and everyone else curse the RNG gods. But there was never a feeling like when the rolls lined up and you got out that server best composite helmet or t-21 rifle and posted up the stats in chat. And back then you got congratulated, and an hour of pms from other crafters taking shop and players wanting special orders. It was great. Not like today when you put together xyz and get the same sword Freddie and his uncle both just made.
SWG was so bad. So, soooo bad. People need to take off the rose tinted glasses. I remember the day I dropped that title. I was on a planet and needed to get to a city. One border of this city was a waterfall. I walked up the 90 degree waterfall. WALKED UP THE WATERFALL. It had no concept of what was and wasn't reasonable navigable terrain. You could literally point at your destination, autorun, and walk away to grab a soda. So exploration was right out the window.
Mobs didn't quite grasp the concept of line of sight. Combat was chunky. To call it terrible would be an improvement. So combat was right out the window.
All that was left was crafting. And what I recall from the crafting was... meh. Just... meh. But crafting alone didn't make a game worth forking over $$ for given the above tripe they foisted on the public.
And Shadowbane was basically more of the same. Griefer Online was more like it. Yeah, open world PvP seemed nice but there was no way to manage your city in a way that the enemies couldn't game the system. The only decent thing that game had which should've been adopted by MMOs since was the concept that guilds could swear to guilds.
But really, all I have to say about why those two should not be on the list over AC is this.
AC is still running. In fact it wasn't until just a year or two ago that the monthly content updates were halted. That game outlasted SWG and Shadowbane by a decade and counting.
No just no...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Lol, I think some of these people didn't read the title of this thread.
No if or buts it was EQ that was the leading mmo before WOW and on top of that it was the first 3d mmo to go world wide.
We all have our favorite mmo's but that doesn't put them at the top of the list.
EQ was number the one mmo before WOW and the mmo that paved the way for all mmo that came before WOW. WOW was made on the foundation of EQ to the point of Blizzard employing players from some of the top EQ guilds.
Even today EQ is still going and releasing expansions whether some of you like it or not.
OK it's not the same game it was but nevertheless it's still here. Think of all the mmo that have come since 1999 and 2016, that alone should put it in perspective.
The only one I played was SWG (Pre-CU, CU and NGE). It was my first MMORPG and I only gave the genre a chance because it was a Star Wars game. The game had a lot of issues, just stop by an EMU to see what they were BUT it also had a lot of real strong points. It's sad that the management ran it off a cliff.
City of Heroes came out before WoW and it deserved to be on this list.
I want so much to agree with you but CoH had only been out a number of months before WoW and it was still being improved. Other games had been out longer and were proven winners. Though it hooked me from launch-day CoH may not truly qualify for this particular Top Five as it was still gaining much needed improvements at the time of WoW's release. Regardless of that, I think it would at least make number seven or eight in a Top Ten.
I've got a feevah, and the only prescription... is more cowbell.
We all have our favorite mmo's but that doesn't put them at the top of the list.
Well it does when it comes to a completely subjective post like this one is.
And this statement by Garrett
You could even argue that one of the reasons we have better Internet and computers is because of EverQuest
Is probably the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.
Not really ludicruos it was a reality .. if you did not have a good computer EQ would not run most EQ server were run at max capacity. The lag was a constant and worse deadly killer.. it kill raids made you loose your corpse.. had to go to zone ask for necro or bard to find it.. pay donations to find it. Those with out a good pc suffer those with good pc and bad connection suffer.. The amount of bandwith between game and client was heavy.. So if you take into consideration that most who play EQ were tech's and future generations that became techs.. If you had a lag problem guildies would help out to lower your lag and bottom line EQ had an immense player base.. and most had to deal with tech problems to be able to enjoy the game else suffer to lag.. Back then pc tech support was not as friendly as they are today LOL..
You could even argue that one of the reasons we have better Internet and computers is because of EverQuest
Is probably the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.
This i can agree with.
You had to be there to know why that comment make sense.. is Just like saying AOL open the door to unlimited and better internet.. yet you had to be there that when it happen AOL could not handle it and most people had to wait long long times and had to come up with tricks just to stay online.. Yet they were the one who open the door for it to happen since before then internet login was hourly and very expensive..
Comments
FFXI was technically before and after WoW, we got it about the same time as it. I agree it was freaking amazing though. I'd put it on my list. (It launched in Japan in 2002 and took until late 2004 to globally launch, wow was late 2004)
AC was also amazing.
While I love everything on your list I'd still have UO, EQ, and SWG in there on mine, with the other two I mentioned you having on yours.
I lasted one day in DAOC,thought it was a very weak game and SWG,well might seem ok i expect a lot more from that type of game,so much more that no mere mortal of a developer could pull it off.
Personally FFXI was far superior and i never even much like FFVII the game that supposedly set off the franchise.
I tried FFXI ,it was everything i wanted missing a couple pieces but when compared to other games,for me there is no comparison.Even after Wow to this day i still play FFXI and consider it a much better,more diverse and just more FUN than WOW.
I understand everyone is entitled to their own opinion but for me,i cannot stand chasing around yellow markers over npc heads,it looks wrong in every possible sense.FFXI never did that,is i was like whew finally someone that makes a game that makes sense.
To this day i believe that if FFXI was simply a PC built game,it would have left Wow in the dust.What Square pulled off for the PS2 is mind blowing amazing.I look back to those days and Blizzard couldn't even convert anything to console,they were hiring other businesses to do it for them.
Here is another thought,how many games can you comfortably play at 500+ ping?Well FFXI you could and at times i even hit 600+ pings.How many games allowed a multicultural interaction,only one FFXI NOBODY else because of it's language translator.
Considering i would not play any otehr game other than EQ2 after FFXI ,my list would be short...
1 FFXi
2FFXi
3FFXI
4FFXi
5EQ2
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Meridian 59 really started the MMO thing, when it released there were just MUDs and it invented a lot of features modern MMO still uses. Of course it suffers when you compare it with games 7 years newer (M59 launched in '96) but for it's time it was a great game and I am not so sure EQ would have been the same game without it.
Lineage even now have 3 million subscribers, it was a great game for it's time and it had and still have more players then all the games on Garrets list put together.
And I feel that Asherons call also would deserve a number on the list, it was a rather interesting game.
I play hI as a kid but I was only 9 so I can't include it.
Just for clarity sake FFXI for all was out Oct. 2003 (PC) and March 2004 (ps2) for NA. I think EU got it Sep. 04 and only on PC. So even at it's latest it was pre-WoW.
FFXI was me and 5 of my friends 5+ year crack and i have yet to play a game that ever came close to it. At the core it did a lot of EQ did but also quite a bit original. Its also one of like 5 MMOs to this day that still has a sub fee.
I am also surprised a few big titles like XI/AC/Rag/Lineage or Runescape did not make the list over Shadowbane. The rest are all pretty huge and make complete sense.
I'm guessing you didn't play a lot of MMOs in the 90s and early 2ks.
The Realm, Lineage, Lineage 2, RuneScape, Earth and Beyond, Final Fantasy XI, Ragnarok Online, Eve, Horizons, Toontown, City of Heroes, and Dofus just to name a few.
I only experienced 2 of those titles, DAOC and SB and while I loved the former, the latter sucked balls IMO despite having several clever ideas I enjoyed.
So my top 5 pre-WOW MMORPGs based on what I've played are:
1) EVE (though I didn't play it until 2007)
2) DAOC (2002 - 2004 were such grand years)
3) Lineage 1
4) Lineage 2
5) EQ2 ( didnt try this one until 2012)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1) AC1
2) DAoC
3) AC2 (don't judge it was fun for what it was)
4) CoH
5) PSO on my Dreamcast
Anyone who called SWG crafting "Meh" needs to be flogged. It was the most in depth, complicated and time consuming crafting system ever used in a game. It made the impatient cry and everyone else curse the RNG gods. But there was never a feeling like when the rolls lined up and you got out that server best composite helmet or t-21 rifle and posted up the stats in chat. And back then you got congratulated, and an hour of pms from other crafters taking shop and players wanting special orders. It was great. Not like today when you put together xyz and get the same sword Freddie and his uncle both just made.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
No if or buts it was EQ that was the leading mmo before WOW and on top of that it was the first 3d mmo to go world wide.
We all have our favorite mmo's but that doesn't put them at the top of the list.
EQ was number the one mmo before WOW and the mmo that paved the way for all mmo that came before WOW. WOW was made on the foundation of EQ to the point of Blizzard employing players from some of the top EQ guilds.
Even today EQ is still going and releasing expansions whether some of you like it or not.
OK it's not the same game it was but nevertheless it's still here. Think of all the mmo that have come since 1999 and 2016, that alone should put it in perspective.
And this statement by Garrett
Is probably the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.
I want so much to agree with you but CoH had only been out a number of months before WoW and it was still being improved. Other games had been out longer and were proven winners. Though it hooked me from launch-day CoH may not truly qualify for this particular Top Five as it was still gaining much needed improvements at the time of WoW's release. Regardless of that, I think it would at least make number seven or eight in a Top Ten.
I've got a feevah, and the only prescription... is more cowbell.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Not really ludicruos it was a reality .. if you did not have a good computer EQ would not run most EQ server were run at max capacity. The lag was a constant and worse deadly killer.. it kill raids made you loose your corpse.. had to go to zone ask for necro or bard to find it.. pay donations to find it. Those with out a good pc suffer those with good pc and bad connection suffer.. The amount of bandwith between game and client was heavy.. So if you take into consideration that most who play EQ were tech's and future generations that became techs.. If you had a lag problem guildies would help out to lower your lag and bottom line EQ had an immense player base.. and most had to deal with tech problems to be able to enjoy the game else suffer to lag.. Back then pc tech support was not as friendly as they are today LOL..
You had to be there to know why that comment make sense.. is Just like saying AOL open the door to unlimited and better internet.. yet you had to be there that when it happen AOL could not handle it and most people had to wait long long times and had to come up with tricks just to stay online.. Yet they were the one who open the door for it to happen since before then internet login was hourly and very expensive..