If Bethseda really want to support "the fans of its games" they could take the mods, incorporate the content into their games and release them as a formal patch. End of problem.
This is not Sony's game. And if Sony say yes to Bethseda shouldn't they say yes to mods for EA games, and Activision games and maybe even little indie start up games?
And when fans of Fallout, Skyrim - or whatever - are unable to play because of the hack that got in through a mod for little indie game who would get the blame. Sony or the indie company, Sony or - just Sony.
This is the right call for Sony to protect the entirety of their customers. And Bethseda can - if they want - get these mods into the game. But I suppose they don't because it would cost them - Bethseda - money. But hey no foul on Bethseda right lets dump on Sony. Hmmmm.
Disagree. This isn't about protecting their ecosystem and players from hackers. That is not a consideration or realistic concern.
They might have a technical concern that the mod could completely break their game install. Just that game. Not other games, the OS, or their PSN account. Then Sony support would be the first to hear about it and support costs money. Sony cares more about not spending support dollars or setting up a disclaimer than they do creating a quality gaming environment.
We know it's more than possible because Windows, XB1, and PS3 have done it successfully. So the real concerns from Sony are:
1. Might have to budget extra for support and that amount is hard to define blindly. 2. Can't monetize it without political fallout - already getting flack for the PS4 Pro being a weaker platform than the XB1. 3. Needs to demonstrate in control versus the foreign developer studio as the dominant console player at the moment.
I talked about a business concern not a technical concern. Bottomline: would you, if you were in charge of Bethseda, guarantee to make good financially on any fallout. There's nothing in it for Bethseda if it doesn't go wrong but it will be millions we can pretty safely assume if it does go wrong.
So would you provide the guarantee?
As for your points:
1. Why should Sony pay for something to do with a Bethseda game? Or any company? 2. Why should Sony take any political fallout? 3. As for demonstrate control vs. foreign? What. For many both Bethseda and Sony would be considered "foreign" although at a crunch Sony are the company that is geographically most diverse.
If Bethseda really want to support "the fans of its games" they could take the mods, incorporate the content into their games and release them as a formal patch. End of problem.
This is not Sony's game. And if Sony say yes to Bethseda shouldn't they say yes to mods for EA games, and Activision games and maybe even little indie start up games?
And when fans of Fallout, Skyrim - or whatever - are unable to play because of the hack that got in through a mod for little indie game who would get the blame. Sony or the indie company, Sony or - just Sony.
This is the right call for Sony to protect the entirety of their customers. And Bethseda can - if they want - get these mods into the game. But I suppose they don't because it would cost them - Bethseda - money. But hey no foul on Bethseda right lets dump on Sony. Hmmmm.
Disagree. This isn't about protecting their ecosystem and players from hackers. That is not a consideration or realistic concern.
They might have a technical concern that the mod could completely break their game install. Just that game. Not other games, the OS, or their PSN account. Then Sony support would be the first to hear about it and support costs money. Sony cares more about not spending support dollars or setting up a disclaimer than they do creating a quality gaming environment.
We know it's more than possible because Windows, XB1, and PS3 have done it successfully. So the real concerns from Sony are:
1. Might have to budget extra for support and that amount is hard to define blindly. 2. Can't monetize it without political fallout - already getting flack for the PS4 Pro being a weaker platform than the XB1. 3. Needs to demonstrate in control versus the foreign developer studio as the dominant console player at the moment.
I talked about a business concern not a technical concern. Bottomline: would you, if you were in charge of Bethseda, guarantee to make good financially on any fallout. There's nothing in it for Bethseda if it doesn't go wrong but it will be millions we can pretty safely assume if it does go wrong.
So would you provide the guarantee?
As for your points:
1. Why should Sony pay for something to do with a Bethseda game? Or any company? 2. Why should Sony take any political fallout? 3. As for demonstrate control vs. foreign? What. For many both Bethseda and Sony would be considered "foreign" although at a crunch Sony are the company that is geographically most diverse.
Short answer is because they get a cut for every copy sold. It's a kind of partnership and Sony has every right to make any decision they want, to which they did.
Blech. I was planning to buy this, but there's no way I'm shelling out $60 for a visually remastered game from 2011. I already own the original on PC. I wanted to be able to play it on my huge TV while sitting on my couch, but now it seems pretty pointless. Why the hell would anyone buy this for PS4 now?
I do that already with the PC hooked up to my big screen TV in the living room, using a wireless keyboard & mouse, with the mouse pad on my knee. Or I could use my Logitech 310 gaming pad if I wanted.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
That is exactly what Bethesda did for the Xbox One release of Mods for Fallout 4. They restricted the number of mods allowed as they quality check those submitted to Microsoft for consideration. Just as they would have done for Sony.This has nothing to do with 'hacking threats' and everything to do with Sony not getting a financial kickback on allowing them. This is not a new struggle with the Mod scene and Sony. It has always come down to money.
What many do not understand, apparently, is that the Mods on consoles run through a loader from Bethesda. All Mods for consoles (ok just the Xbox) are housed on Bethesda's servers and are quality checked by Bethesda from their end and again my Microsoft on their end. It is not like the PC where you can just open a browser and download any Mod you want which can open you or your machine to risk. On the console it does not work that way. The Bethesda Mod Manager houses all Mods available for that platform. You have to sign into Bethesda.net to be able to download the Mods straight from Bethesda.
Just my point, Bethesda went through the process for Xbox. But Bethesda refused to do it for Playstation. Why? Bethesda chose not to allow mods on the Playstation, not Sony.
Bethesda did not make that choice. They publicly stated today they are sad that Sony will not be allowing Mod support for their games. The same process they went through with Microsoft they went through with Sony. Difference being? Sony said no. This is straight from Bethesda not me. "After months of discussion with Sony, we regret to say that while we
have long been ready to offer mod support on PlayStation 4, Sony has
informed us they will not approve user mods the way they should work:
where users can do anything they want for either Fallout 4 or Skyrim Special Edition," wrote the company.
Sorry, I agree with you on many things but there is really no discussion here. You can defend them all you want but Bethesda tried their hardest to make this happen. Sony said no. End of story. With,I am sure, many console gamers looking forward to Skyrim Remastered launching on the consoles it seems another feather in Microsoft's cap for those on the fence about which version to buy.
@blueturtle13, I hope our discussion has not developed bad feelings between us. I still respect you, your opinion, and the information you share on this site. I still consider myself a fan of yours.
I read that Bethesda public statement also. But what I believe Bethesda left out, was Sony will approve user mods that Sony inspects. The difference being, Bethesda will not allow Sony to inspect the mods. The difference being, Bethesda will not finish the requirements to sell mods for the PS4. The difference being, Bethesda wants a loophole for these mods, to avoid the requirements of inspection.
I realise that the language Bethesda used is not a lie, but it maybe considered deceptive. Bethesda's Lawyers chose language to make it seem as though Sony said "No." This is a summary of what I believe to have been said:
Bethesda: We want to sell mods for our games on the PS4. Sony: First, we must inspect these mods before you can sell them. [This is standard practice, and applies to all companies.] Bethesda: No, you can not inspect the mods. [This is Bethesda's choice, and the only obstacle to mods being sold for the PS4.] Sony: Until, Sony can inspect the mods, we won't let you sell the mods for PS4.
If I want to go to a movie theater and watch a movie. First I must buy a ticket. If I don't buy a ticket, then the movie theater will say, "No Konfess, you can't see the movie with out buying a ticket." But I can still come back tomorrow and buy a ticket and see the movie.
Bethesda can allow Sony to inspect the mods, and Sony will allow Bethesda to sell them for the PS4. This option is still available to Bethesda.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that many people in this thread believe this happened:
Bethesda: We want to sell mods for our games on the PS4. Sony: No. Bethesda: We tried, but Sony said No.
Every company that wants to sell programs that run on the PS4 has to get the program inspected. Bethesda had to do this for Skyrim and Fallout 4. This is standard practice. This is not something that is being forced on Bethesda only.
I still hope we can remain respectful and friends after this.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
There is a reason for closed systems, first is safety from hackers. Second is quality of coding. Sony simply wants the mods to pass a screening and vetting process like every game content does on a console, and have Bethesda pay for it. Like they did with Skyrim and Fallout 4.
It's Bethesda that is saying they won't pay for every mod to get checked out, like you would a rescue dog at the pound.
Sony is say, they don't want a playstation store hack downloaded by everyone as a Fallout mod. Then those same users come crying how their credit cards are maxed out and sony did nothing to protect them. Not crying because Bethesda Bitch Slapped them with their open mod system.
Downloading a mod, is like taking candy from that creepy guy (Handsome Football Player / Rapist) in the rape van.
Also Sony doesn't prevent mods because of possible hacking. Mods for Skyrim and Fallout 4 are not programs, they are instructions for game client what to do. A bit like a webpage is instructions for web browser on what to do. That's not to say they couldn't be used for hacking, but it's not much easier than to use a webpage to hack Playstation 4.
Come on man, Scripts through webpages cause all kinds of malicious shit.
In fact, webkit is a major security hole for gaining access the the filesystem and has allowed linux to be installed on ps2/3/vitas's in the past.
Papyrus, to my limited knowledge on the language allows limited filesystem operations so how can sony not evaluate that as a security threat?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I don't blame Sony. Bethesda has done a terrible job with moderating the mod site. Many mods on there were stolen from Nexus and other mod sites and uploaded on Bethesda site without the mod authors consent and/or knowledge. Many of those were not made for use on consoles and end up crashing the game.
The entitlement attitude of the console crowd seems to be worse than the PC crowd at times. When something doesn't work, they talk trash about the mod author, demand it be fixed like yesterday and want this or that. I know many who have given console players the middle finger and refuse to create any mods for them. Bethesda is slow to react (if at all) to anything that goes on with that site.
All Sony had to do was look at the forums for the open mods and see all the problems and see how Bethesda does nothing to help solve the problems. Sony probably doesn't want that cluster f&*^ associated with their consoles.
Bethesda had a great idea, but it was poorly implemented.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
If Bethesda was charging or wanted to charge for them I could understand a bit better. Yet the mods are free and downloaded from inside the game itself. Sony allowed Epic to distribute mods on the PS3 and no harm came of it. Tim Sweeney from Epic even twitted yesterday hoping that Sony "fixes it" and allows Mods on their console. We can respectfully agree to disagree as to who is to blame. I think the real loser in all this is the PS4 owners who were looking forward to the Mods that Xbox owners have been enjoying since May.
Of course I have no ill will towards you and I respect you all the more for presenting your opinions in a cogent and mature way. Many here could or should take lessons from you on civility. Cheers!
Epic was given the same requirements to release mods on the PS4. Epic Chose to let their mods be scanned. Epic didn't get a unfair advantage or better treatment. It was the exact same thing for both Epic and Bethesda. Epic chose to follow the process, Bethesda chose not to. This is why I know it's Bethesda's fault. Tim Sweeney said yes, that is the only difference between what happened to Epic and Bethesda.
I asked around, and got confirmation. XBox one has a similar policy as Sony for mods. Some people think Bethesda was given a loophole for the XBox. Until I hear that Bethesda did get a loophole from Microsoft, I will believe that Bethesda said Yes to having Microsoft inspect the mods. And said No to having Sony inspect the mods. I agree there is a cost, and the number of mods are large. But Bethesda paid the expense for XBox and not Playstation. Most likely this is a negotiation trick to get a cheaper price from Sony, the loophole I mentioned. Either way it is dirty business. Because such public statements from corporations can have financial impacts, I'm sure Sony's legal team is hard at work this weekend. Bethesda may have talked themselves out of business or into a very deep financial hole.
True the ones that ultimately suffer are the customers. Thank you for your understanding @blueturtle13.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Comments
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
So would you provide the guarantee?
As for your points:
1. Why should Sony pay for something to do with a Bethseda game? Or any company?
2. Why should Sony take any political fallout?
3. As for demonstrate control vs. foreign? What. For many both Bethseda and Sony would be considered "foreign" although at a crunch Sony are the company that is geographically most diverse.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I do that already with the PC hooked up to my big screen TV in the living room, using a wireless keyboard & mouse, with the mouse pad on my knee. Or I could use my Logitech 310 gaming pad if I wanted.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I read that Bethesda public statement also. But what I believe Bethesda left out, was Sony will approve user mods that Sony inspects. The difference being, Bethesda will not allow Sony to inspect the mods. The difference being, Bethesda will not finish the requirements to sell mods for the PS4. The difference being, Bethesda wants a loophole for these mods, to avoid the requirements of inspection.
I realise that the language Bethesda used is not a lie, but it maybe considered deceptive. Bethesda's Lawyers chose language to make it seem as though Sony said "No." This is a summary of what I believe to have been said:
Bethesda: We want to sell mods for our games on the PS4.
Sony: First, we must inspect these mods before you can sell them. [This is standard practice, and applies to all companies.]
Bethesda: No, you can not inspect the mods. [This is Bethesda's choice, and the only obstacle to mods being sold for the PS4.]
Sony: Until, Sony can inspect the mods, we won't let you sell the mods for PS4.
If I want to go to a movie theater and watch a movie. First I must buy a ticket. If I don't buy a ticket, then the movie theater will say, "No Konfess, you can't see the movie with out buying a ticket." But I can still come back tomorrow and buy a ticket and see the movie.
Bethesda can allow Sony to inspect the mods, and Sony will allow Bethesda to sell them for the PS4. This option is still available to Bethesda.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that many people in this thread believe this happened:
Bethesda: We want to sell mods for our games on the PS4.
Sony: No.
Bethesda: We tried, but Sony said No.
Every company that wants to sell programs that run on the PS4 has to get the program inspected. Bethesda had to do this for Skyrim and Fallout 4. This is standard practice. This is not something that is being forced on Bethesda only.
I still hope we can remain respectful and friends after this.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
In fact, webkit is a major security hole for gaining access the the filesystem and has allowed linux to be installed on ps2/3/vitas's in the past.
Papyrus, to my limited knowledge on the language allows limited filesystem operations so how can sony not evaluate that as a security threat?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
The entitlement attitude of the console crowd seems to be worse than the PC crowd at times. When something doesn't work, they talk trash about the mod author, demand it be fixed like yesterday and want this or that. I know many who have given console players the middle finger and refuse to create any mods for them. Bethesda is slow to react (if at all) to anything that goes on with that site.
All Sony had to do was look at the forums for the open mods and see all the problems and see how Bethesda does nothing to help solve the problems. Sony probably doesn't want that cluster f&*^ associated with their consoles.
Bethesda had a great idea, but it was poorly implemented.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
I asked around, and got confirmation. XBox one has a similar policy as Sony for mods. Some people think Bethesda was given a loophole for the XBox. Until I hear that Bethesda did get a loophole from Microsoft, I will believe that Bethesda said Yes to having Microsoft inspect the mods. And said No to having Sony inspect the mods. I agree there is a cost, and the number of mods are large. But Bethesda paid the expense for XBox and not Playstation. Most likely this is a negotiation trick to get a cheaper price from Sony, the loophole I mentioned. Either way it is dirty business. Because such public statements from corporations can have financial impacts, I'm sure Sony's legal team is hard at work this weekend. Bethesda may have talked themselves out of business or into a very deep financial hole.
True the ones that ultimately suffer are the customers. Thank you for your understanding @blueturtle13.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.