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Funding/Acquisition of PFO

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 14,065
    Bluddwolf said:
    Also, I just checked.  Apparently their new, new, new, new target date for sale is August 1st.  The company claims it wants 25 full time developers and expects a population of tens of thousands.


    You must be joking, or they are delusional.  At its greatest population it maybe had 2000, but there were some people with like 20+ accounts, so who knows the real numbers.  
    Not joking.  It's posted on their forums.

    They believe their target is actually the existing Pathfinder RPG base that has not been exposed to the MMO.

    They apparently STILL don't get it...

    Are they changing the focus into a PVE with settlements then based on Pathfinder IP?  That's the only way they'd attract that audience.  Lisa basically admitted it when she announced GoblinWorks going into survival mode until they find a buyer.  Her comment was saying they shouldn't have relied on Pathfinder RPG to fund a PVP game for kickstarter.  It was the fireside chat where she was telling everyone about what was happening.

    If the game turns into a PVE/sandbox with settlements based on Pathfinder IP, I actually see that might work.  But that would require an overhaul of itemization, mobs, AI, etc.  But there is Pantheon and Project:Gorgon.  You can do that type of older school PVE experience on a budget.  You just need talented people working on it.  

    Pathfinder Online did not have that.
    No... they said they are planning to stay the course:

    "We plan to continue development with a vision similar to that pursued by Goblinworks, with minor changes in emphasis resulting from crowdforging in the forums and from key feature lists generated by the settlements."


    As long as they keep the same world (no wipe), vision and game engine this is doomed to failure... again.

    I just can't believe that they could actually find people to fund them again after the first utter fiasco.

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  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    I don't believe they have the necessary funding, otherwise they would not be doing all of this "stringing along". This is now 7 months of, we are in talks with a new investor.  The most pre purchased time from the kickstarter anyone could have had was 2 years of time.  That means that even those accounts will have to be resubbed by January.  That is when I expect the "Death Notice" will be delivered.

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    It was a BAD idea by the female owner of the IP to try and make a half ass poorly funded game,seriously what was she thinking?
    All i can imagine is she rated her product...IP a lot higher than everyone else,she must have thought it would sell big based on the IP alone.
    The original developer "Goblinworks" if i remember right?They are every bit as guilty,they knew there was not enough funding,should have never attempted this.

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  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Wizardry said:
    It was a BAD idea by the female owner of the IP to try and make a half ass poorly funded game,seriously what was she thinking?
    All i can imagine is she rated her product...IP a lot higher than everyone else,she must have thought it would sell big based on the IP alone.
    The original developer "Goblinworks" if i remember right?They are every bit as guilty,they knew there was not enough funding,should have never attempted this.
    The IP is actually pretty popular but the problem is that the MMO have very little to do with the P&P game. If she wanted to make a PvP sandbox game she really shouldn't have used Pathfinders IP.

    It is the same problem WAR got, the original fans of the IP can't really recognize their beloved IP and without them there is no point using the IP, if you want to make a MMO version of a P&P game you must make the game for your IPs fans or you will upset them without getting anything from the fans of the game you wouldn't get with a new original IP.

    If you want to make a leveless sandbox MMO based on a P&P game there are IPs that actually would have worked fine for that, like Shadowrun, Vampire, ARS magica, Delta green, Cyberpunk or a bunch of others. D&D based games like Pathfinderis the worst choice you can make there.

    Of course, that isn't the reason PFO did so badly but it did annoy the Pathfinder fans. If the game would have been better it would not be in this mess but my point was that it got nothing for using the Pathfinder IP while it did a bad thing for Paizos reputation.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 14,065
    To the surprise of absolutely no one... they have once again delayed the purchase of the game by the "new company".  New target is Sept 1st.


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  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    To the surprise of absolutely no one... they have once again delayed the purchase of the game by the "new company".  New target is Sept 1st.


    IN January the last of the Kickstarter, maximum pre purchased time will end, and that is when they will announce the doors are closed on PFO.  This will be the only way they can avoid the charge that they did not deliver what was pre paid for.  

    If they were so confident that this project was going to turn around, where is the advertisement for free trials, free weekends or anything at all about the game?  

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 14,065
    Latest update:

    We expected to provide more information about the status of the capital raise today.
    Unfortunately the status of the capital raise is - "we are still working on it."
    We will post again by the end of the week.

    LOL.  Some things never change  =)

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  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    Latest update:

    We expected to provide more information about the status of the capital raise today.
    Unfortunately the status of the capital raise is - "we are still working on it."
    We will post again by the end of the week.

    LOL.  Some things never change  =)
    It is almost like a Monty Python sketch at this point.  Maybe they will look to release this 2009 tech game in 2019, because you know.... game engines don't advance in a decade.

    They are truly shooting for the worst conceived, developed and marketed MMO in gaming history.

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 14,065
    Newest update:

    We continue to work on the capital raise.  

    Completing the acquisition by September 1 is an aggressive goal at this point. Nonetheless, we are still using this date as a stake in the ground to motivate all parties to "stay on target."

    We will provide another update on Friday of next week (barring a significant development earlier in the week that we can share).

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  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    September 1 is the new billing cycle for those that have had accounts beginning on day 1 of the paid beta test.  

    Question:  Do they have running water in the rivers of the River Kingdoms yet?  Yes I know it has only been two years, but I was thinking that the Unity 4 game engine could handle water by now.

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 14,065
    UPDATE!!!!!

    In shocking news... the latest "update" is below:

    We promised an update today and we acknowledge it is very frustrating to hear “we are still working on it” but that is precisely what we are still doing.

    This transaction involves numerous parties across time zones and international boundaries.

    That’s all we have to report today.

    We will provide another update on September 1.

    --------------------------------------

    New info!  They are working across international boundaries!

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  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    They need at least 20 million to produce a viable MMO, and even that would be doing it fairly cheap.  They are still just stringing this along, until January, to not violate the Kickstarter prepaid 24 months of game time.  Then I predict they will shut the doors.  

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 14,065
    For those still following along...  they missed their latest target for acquisition (Sep 1).  New target is Sep 9.   I will be holding my breath.


    We intended to provide an update yesterday, but events conspired against us.

    We are still working on the deal to continue the development of Pathfinder Online.

    We do not have any additional information to announce at this time.

    If there are no announcements prior to September 9, we will provide another update then.

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  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    On there forums there are still those that are claiming this:

    "While I can't see pouring thousands of dollars into PFO for accounts/titles/inns/etc… getting in on the ground floor of an "Eve with swords" game as an investment is rather appealing."

    THe problem with this of course is that PFO was never designed to be "EvE with Swords".  It was never designed to be a true PVP based MMO, despite their claims (lies) to the contrary.  

    I also see that yet another deadline has been missed.  Not a surprise, three more months until the last of the kickstarter accounts have run out of time.  

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,399
    What a joke. Sept 9 I'm sure the Monty Python sketch continues...

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 14,065
    Yes.  The "New Date" is Sept 23rd

    So sad.  It was one year ago that they laid everyone off and started teasing the whole idea of it being bought out.  A whole year...

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  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,635
    Bluddwolf said:
    Also, I just checked.  Apparently their new, new, new, new target date for sale is August 1st.  The company claims it wants 25 full time developers and expects a population of tens of thousands.


    You must be joking, or they are delusional.  At its greatest population it maybe had 2000, but there were some people with like 20+ accounts, so who knows the real numbers.  
    Come on they have always been delusional that has never been in question, just wonder where they found an angel investor as delusional as them? I really needing some funding for a water molecule sorting machine I am working on. Principle is you slam water molecule into a very sharp edge with such force you are able to split the oxygen from the hydrogen. So far I got my hose duct taped to my lawnmower with some very positive results.
  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    I guess it's safe to say they missed yet another deadline.  

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • VlarpVlarp Member CommonPosts: 7
    Bluddwolf said:
    They need at least 20 million to produce a viable MMO, and even that would be doing it fairly cheap.  They are still just stringing this along, until January, to not violate the Kickstarter prepaid 24 months of game time.  Then I predict they will shut the doors.  
    Why would they care if they violate their Kickstarter agreements?

    Goblinworks is a separate corporation from Paizo.  Its sole business has been Pathfinder Online.  They are attempting to sell Pathfinder Online and transfer all liability to another company.  They are not trying to sell Goblinworks.  If they can't sell the game then they can just declare bankruptcy or dissolve altogether.  There would be no avenues for disgruntled Kickstarter backers or PFO customers to take any legal actions.
  • pantaropantaro Member RarePosts: 515
    been curious how this was gonna turn out and boy its not disappointing,lol who needs jerry springer.......
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Loke666 said:
    Wizardry said:
    It was a BAD idea by the female owner of the IP to try and make a half ass poorly funded game,seriously what was she thinking?
    All i can imagine is she rated her product...IP a lot higher than everyone else,she must have thought it would sell big based on the IP alone.
    The original developer "Goblinworks" if i remember right?They are every bit as guilty,they knew there was not enough funding,should have never attempted this.
    The IP is actually pretty popular but the problem is that the MMO have very little to do with the P&P game. If she wanted to make a PvP sandbox game she really shouldn't have used Pathfinders IP.

    It is the same problem WAR got, the original fans of the IP can't really recognize their beloved IP and without them there is no point using the IP, if you want to make a MMO version of a P&P game you must make the game for your IPs fans or you will upset them without getting anything from the fans of the game you wouldn't get with a new original IP.

    If you want to make a leveless sandbox MMO based on a P&P game there are IPs that actually would have worked fine for that, like Shadowrun, Vampire, ARS magica, Delta green, Cyberpunk or a bunch of others. D&D based games like Pathfinderis the worst choice you can make there.

    Of course, that isn't the reason PFO did so badly but it did annoy the Pathfinder fans. If the game would have been better it would not be in this mess but my point was that it got nothing for using the Pathfinder IP while it did a bad thing for Paizos reputation.

    I know a lot of hardcore warhammer players who had thousands of dollars of miniatures and terrain who travel America to play in conventions and not a one of them was impressed by WAR.  I do have one friend who played warhammer a little bit at a local game store and wasn't hardcore like the others and he loves it.  WAR was a major disappointment to me.

    Also, the late changes to the game hurt it for me.  They never got city fights working well nor did they add the 4 other cities they had planned.
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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 14,065
    EL-OH-EL

    "When we posted two weeks ago, if no announcement had been forthcoming, we expected to be able to provide greater detail about the state of negotiations as of yesterday - this is the "substance" we expected to provide.

    The situation is complex and sensitive - we do not have an announcement to make today.

    It is highly likely that additional information will be provided next week."

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  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    This stringing along of those that have been loyal following this game borders on abusive.  For those that say Paizo is separate from Goblin Works, not so since January.  

    This treatment of a consumer base, even if not identical to the base that plays Pathfinder RPG should have a backlash on Paizo.

    Lisa Stevens owns this fiasco.   

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • VlarpVlarp Member CommonPosts: 7
    Bluddwolf said:
    This stringing along of those that have been loyal following this game borders on abusive.  For those that say Paizo is separate from Goblin Works, not so since January.  

    This treatment of a consumer base, even if not identical to the base that plays Pathfinder RPG should have a backlash on Paizo.

    Lisa Stevens owns this fiasco.   
    Not so how Bluddwolf?  Because Goblinworks shut down their office and moved into the Paizo building?  Goblinworks is still a separate corporation.  All financial transactions, crowdfunding agreements and legal terms of service have gone through Goblinworks and not Paizo.

    There will be no backlash.  The tabletop community has never supported nor cares anything about Pathfinder Online.  At the last few Paizocons most of the people I talked to had no interest in this MMO and wished it was replaced with something new entirely.  

    From an ethical perspective perhaps Lisa or others at Paizo might feel like they should fulfill their commitments to Pathfinder Online.  However the reality is that it will not significantly impact their primary business.  It's even possible that through shutting down PFO the couple of hundreds existing PFO players will now have more free money every month to buy more tabletop products.  The remaining playerbase consists of rabidly loyal fanboys who are desparately clinging to any IP licensed by Paizo.  They love everything Pathfinder and no matter how much they lost on this they will return immediately to supporting their product lines and someday to future computer games.

    There will be no legal repercussions if Goblinworks shuts down the game next week and dissolves. Disgruntled players will just need to move on.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Nyctelios said:
    Vlarp said:
    There will be no backlash.  The tabletop community has never supported nor cares anything about Pathfinder Online.  
    People who plays Pathfinder hardly cares about something... since they miss a brain.
    Please, just because it isn't to your taste (nor mine) doesn't make the players who like it braindead. And there indeed wont be a backlash but neither will they get the millions of people that actually play the P&P game and that is far worse then a backlash.

    I don't see any point in using a huge IP for a small niche game not supported by the original fans. Just buy the code and change the setting to a basic fantasy world, it is not much work.
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