I'm glad you have your own opinion, but my opinion says your opinion is BS. You are expertly qualifed to give your opinion, but that does not mean that the opinion itself is expertly qualified.
Here is a question for you:
What's more DnD: DDO or Silent Storm? (in case you have not played Silent Storm it is a turn based strategy game that has a very simialr rule and class system to DnD)
Originally posted by burrek I'm glad you have your own opinion, but my opinion says your opinion is BS. You are expertly qualifed to give your opinion, but that does not mean that the opinion itself is expertly qualified. Here is a question for you: What's more DnD: DDO or Silent Storm? (in case you have not played Silent Storm it is a turn based strategy game that has a very simialr rule and class system to DnD)
I never said my opinion was expertly qualified... Just my opinion... And it stands as such... DDO is a bad representation of PnP DnD.
Since I have never heard of Silent Storm, let alone played it, I cannot give an answer to your question.
And I will not get into this type of question and answer trap game with you, Burrek. Kind of like asking this question... "Which is more like a tomato, an apple or a pear?" All three are actually fruit, even tho our government decided to call a tomato a vegetable.
Originally posted by Razorback Originally posted by lunatis Turbine has definately taken a drop since Asheron's Call 1 Well lets inject a little fact then shall we. Turbine offered players what most of you say you want with AC2. Big expansive environment, crafting, city building, grinding in open areas etc etc etc... and all that good WoW type stuff. We all know what happened to AC2. In many ways it would be fair to argue that devs cant win with some people. Turbine obviously licked their wounds after AC2 and thought "ok WoW has proven that you dont need depth, complexity, immediate content, detailed crafting systems or any of that stuff to be successful". "We have a name here with D&D and we can either try and copy WoW and AC2's model, or we can try as hard as we can to strike a balance between PnP D&D and MMO gaming". Imho they got it about as perfectly right as they possibly could. Is the game for everyone ? HELL NO. Is the game enjoyble for those that really GET what Turbine is trying to achieve, HELL YES! I almost cancelled my pre-order after reading the official forums for weeks before my copy arrived as the Oz release was 2 weeks late, so I got to read LOTS of very negative stuff all from players with the same gripes. Cant heal/regen in dungeonsCant soloNot enough content Well Im so glad I didnt listen to them because this game just happens to suit me down to the ground. I only have 3-5 hours per day MAX between about 7pm and midnight when I get home from work to play these days. My days of 14 hour sessions in EQ1 are long gone. I have a fulltime job a mortgage and a family so D&D just hits the nail right on the head for me. I can log in, have a good adventure with no "work/grind" like every other MMO on the market you want to name. I play, I enjoy, I log out, feels like heaven. If this is a failed game, then I wish more devs would fail this bad. If this is a backward step from AC1 (which I played for almost 2 years) then they can keep heading backwards as fast as they want. It re-introduces an element to MMO gaming combat that we havnt seen since the days of UO year 1. This rare element is something that has been completely lost since EQ1 refined a playstyle that didnt require it. This element is known as SKILL!! Yes skill instead of pure math. Maybe thats why many poeple have trouble enjoying the game.
Actually Razor I suffered through the release of AC 2 and everything you say that Turbine figured out they don't need and why AC 2 went wrong isn't the reasons. I wouldn't even say Turbine could claim to have most of that at the time of launch or even 6 months after it. Turbine assasinated AC 2 themselves in many ways, most of which were technical and had nothing to do with it having depth or a detailed crafting system or anything of the likes which it really didn't.
The short list of what killed AC 2: - No cities - No market system - The loss of ALL chat except local for over 3 months of time - an absolutely miserable launch that lasted for about 6 months before they finally got their act together - It lacking of depth. (their concept of depth was a 3 frame storyboard with some deep voiced guy telling a story of something that happenned in a manner of a teacher reading to kindergartners). - Fixes to the game that dramtically made it less. (example: finally fixing the pathing problems after months of pains by literally removing 3/4 of all the tree's on the entire map)
And things of that nature. THAT is what killed AC 2 and left everyone bitter over it in my opinion. I don't care how good of a game you have if you leave chat broken for 3 months and don't decide to roll the server back pre-patch within a day of the problem you are just screwing yourselves.
Turbine showed a complete lack of vision with AC 2. They removed the need for interaction completely. You could trash or sell items right from your inventory on the field so no-one the only time you ever saw another person was when you were travelling the gates. Turbine took all the elements of MMO OUT with AC 2.
And too me this same lack of understanding good gameplay is what has made DDO a very poor game.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by burrek I'm glad you have your own opinion, but my opinion says your opinion is BS. You are expertly qualifed to give your opinion, but that does not mean that the opinion itself is expertly qualified. Here is a question for you: What's more DnD: DDO or Silent Storm? (in case you have not played Silent Storm it is a turn based strategy game that has a very simialr rule and class system to DnD)
I never said my opinion was expertly qualified... Just my opinion... And it stands as such... DDO is a bad representation of PnP DnD.
Since I have never heard of Silent Storm, let alone played it, I cannot give an answer to your question.
And I will not get into this type of question and answer trap game with you, Burrek. Kind of like asking this question... "Which is more like a tomato, an apple or a pear?" All three are actually fruit, even tho our government decided to call a tomato a vegetable.
Since it is impossible to convince anyone that their opinion is wrong my questions serve to inpire self examination and reflection on your part.
I believe DDO is a good representation of what DnD is, in the medium of computer games, just like I belive that the "Lord of the Rings" are a good representation of "The Lord of the Ring" books even though they alter the content drastically. That is my opinion and I'm not trying to going to proclaim that this is they way things are, unlike you Ian, and will only say that I feel that way.
Semantics aside... Go play the MUD I gave you a link for, I hear it's just like DnD.
Originally posted by burrek I'm glad you have your own opinion, but my opinion says your opinion is BS. You are expertly qualifed to give your opinion, but that does not mean that the opinion itself is expertly qualified. Here is a question for you: What's more DnD: DDO or Silent Storm? (in case you have not played Silent Storm it is a turn based strategy game that has a very simialr rule and class system to DnD)
I never said my opinion was expertly qualified... Just my opinion... And it stands as such... DDO is a bad representation of PnP DnD.
Since I have never heard of Silent Storm, let alone played it, I cannot give an answer to your question.
And I will not get into this type of question and answer trap game with you, Burrek. Kind of like asking this question... "Which is more like a tomato, an apple or a pear?" All three are actually fruit, even tho our government decided to call a tomato a vegetable.
Since it is impossible to convince anyone that their opinion is wrong my questions serve to inpire self examination and reflection on your part.
I believe DDO is a good representation of what DnD is, in the medium of computer games, just like I belive that the "Lord of the Rings" are a good representation of "The Lord of the Ring" books even though they alter the content drastically. That is my opinion and I'm not trying to going to proclaim that this is they way things are, unlike you Ian, and will only say that I feel that way.
Semantics aside... Go play the MUD I gave you a link for, I hear it's just like DnD.
You are kidding? Right? DDO is a good representation of DnD in the medium of computer games? What about all of the games from Bioware? they are a far better representation of DnD than DDO. DDO "might" be a good representation of DnD in the MMO arena... But that is it, and that is pushing it.
Originally posted by Ian_Hawkmoon You are kidding? Right? DDO is a good representation of DnD in the medium of computer games? What about all of the games from Bioware? they are a far better representation of DnD than DDO. DDO "might" be a good representation of DnD in the MMO arena... But that is it, and that is pushing it.
REALLY pushing it.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Being a veteran of all the big MMO's, I recently picked up DDO in the hopes of playing something fresh, unique. To my delight, DDO offered such a game. Many gamers, including myself, are sick of the grind which is required to have a 'good' character. Sure, you have a wonderful world to explore in EQ and WOW. But how many people can honestly admit they spend their gaming hours exploring? Exploring a world was a great amount of fun in the original eq (before planes of power), but quickly loses its luster. DDO puts the focus on strategy and personal relationships. You need to know how to work with each of your groupmates in order to complete the quest. If you want to grind your ass away on the same mob for countless hours, WOW is calling your name. I leveled my character to 60 before getting my first group. I too, was deathly afraid of the lack of options (no crafting, exploring, all instanced), however, DDO provides the most fun quests to date in any game. I find myself grouping for hours on end with the same people...and that is the heart of DDO. That is what makes it a DND game in an MMO world. It is not completely DND, nor MMO, yet it creates its own niche.
Originally posted by Nromeo Being a veteran of all the big MMO's, I recently picked up DDO in the hopes of playing something fresh, unique. To my delight, DDO offered such a game. Many gamers, including myself, are sick of the grind which is required to have a 'good' character. Sure, you have a wonderful world to explore in EQ and WOW. But how many people can honestly admit they spend their gaming hours exploring? Exploring a world was a great amount of fun in the original eq (before planes of power), but quickly loses its luster. DDO puts the focus on strategy and personal relationships. You need to know how to work with each of your groupmates in order to complete the quest. If you want to grind your ass away on the same mob for countless hours, WOW is calling your name. I leveled my character to 60 before getting my first group. I too, was deathly afraid of the lack of options (no crafting, exploring, all instanced), however, DDO provides the most fun quests to date in any game. I find myself grouping for hours on end with the same people...and that is the heart of DDO. That is what makes it a DND game in an MMO world. It is not completely DND, nor MMO, yet it creates its own niche.
Umm, I have used an out of game map to find something ONCE and I explore constantly so I can have more of my map exposed and check out as many VERY VERY diverse zones as I can. I love it, but I am a hunter and I feel that is part of the class.
I have yet to grind in this game, all my experience has been gained by either a quest in game or via some personal quest of mine such as my morning fishing runs along the wild shore or similar situations. I have never been in a hurry to get level 60 and I am enjoying every level of the game as it is. I am excited to get there but I am not in a hurry to give up that excitement either.
The game is what you make of it. With DDO I saw no ability to have such a scope of things to do in my gameplay. All I saw was a city and alot of basements to go through. Sorry but that just isn't exciting too me. And I did solo all the ones I did during beta.
If you ground WoW it was because you chose to play it that way.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Nromeo Being a veteran of all the big MMO's, I recently picked up DDO in the hopes of playing something fresh, unique. To my delight, DDO offered such a game. Many gamers, including myself, are sick of the grind which is required to have a 'good' character.
So instead of grinding kills in WoW or other MMOs you grind out quests in DD0. Because they dont' have enough of them to level you up for that level.
Grind mobs, grind same old quests. Whats the difference.
Originally posted by Nromeo Being a veteran of all the big MMO's, I recently picked up DDO in the hopes of playing something fresh, unique. To my delight, DDO offered such a game. Many gamers, including myself, are sick of the grind which is required to have a 'good' character.
So instead of grinding kills in WoW or other MMOs you grind out quests in DD0. Because they dont' have enough of them to level you up for that level.
Grind mobs, grind same old quests. Whats the difference.
Nothing.
Great, great point. Its somewhat unsettling to me that most of the really vocal supporters of DDO seem to be primarily driven by some kind of bitterness regarding the character development approach of MMOs. All this talk of "skill" (LOL to that one), and not needing "uber gear" or having to "grind" to have the "best character" really just smacks of sour grapes.
If you really want a game with an artificially leveled playing field where two people are completely equal whether they play 1 minute per day or 24 hours per day, should you really be playing an RPG? If you really want NO reward for time put in, and pure "skill" based play, then play Halo. Or do you not have enough NATURAL ability to feel rewarded in the FPS/RTS world?
People seem to want it both ways. A system that removes any benefits of putting time into a character, yet isnt purely twitch based. how is that possible?
Having played the DDO beta, it completely does NOT achieve that (as it would really be an impossible goal). DDO has, if anything, a more annoying grind then ever but its superfans are simply choosing to ignore it because they WANT to love this game.
Well guess what? You could ignore the grind in WoW also. I'd say that given how easily you can power grind a char to 60 in WoW, and the fact that it is maintaining FOUR MILLION SUBS with NO NEW CONTENT, implies that people are doing more than "just grinding" in WoW. I also have loved exploring that world, doing quests, tradeskilling, etc. and I eventually hit 60 and made a new char to do the same from the Horde perspective. I played EQ and EQ2 the same way.
If you choose to approach the traditional MMO as nothing but a grind, thats really a personal choice. If you the decide to ignore the grind in DDO, thats a personal choice too.
One thing that is NOT a personal choice, however, is that DDO has NO larger world. There is really no exploration whatsoever and the entire thing feels hugely linear and somewhat contrived to me. You cant really convince yourself that this isnt the case, since it is. To me, thats neither in the spirit of PNP NOR in the spirit of MMOs. I think thats a glaring omission that for, killed the whole thing.
The dungeons were nice and the scripting was cool, but the whole thing felt just intensely retro. Start in the central tavern where everyone MUST be. Build a party of anyone who happens to be standing around. Run to dungeon. Plough through. Rinse and repeat, returning to tavern to heal, until you've unlocked the "next area", then repeat the process again. Keep following that pattern hoping you havent seen the whole thing before they can release new "undiscovered basements" within the same city or, perhaps, unlock new neighborhoods. it's like Bards Tale 1 with really nice graphics and scripting. To me, thats a step backwards in every way.
Originally posted by mlambert890 Great, great point. Its somewhat unsettling to me that most of the really vocal supporters of DDO seem to be primarily driven by some kind of bitterness regarding the character development approach of MMOs. All this talk of "skill" (LOL to that one), and not needing "uber gear" or having to "grind" to have the "best character" really just smacks of sour grapes. If you really want a game with an artificially leveled playing field where two people are completely equal whether they play 1 minute per day or 24 hours per day, should you really be playing an RPG? If you really want NO reward for time put in, and pure "skill" based play, then play Halo. Or do you not have enough NATURAL ability to feel rewarded in the FPS/RTS world? People seem to want it both ways. A system that removes any benefits of putting time into a character, yet isnt purely twitch based. how is that possible? Having played the DDO beta, it completely does NOT achieve that (as it would really be an impossible goal). DDO has, if anything, a more annoying grind then ever but its superfans are simply choosing to ignore it because they WANT to love this game. Well guess what? You could ignore the grind in WoW also. I'd say that given how easily you can power grind a char to 60 in WoW, and the fact that it is maintaining FOUR MILLION SUBS with NO NEW CONTENT, implies that people are doing more than "just grinding" in WoW. I also have loved exploring that world, doing quests, tradeskilling, etc. and I eventually hit 60 and made a new char to do the same from the Horde perspective. I played EQ and EQ2 the same way. If you choose to approach the traditional MMO as nothing but a grind, thats really a personal choice. If you the decide to ignore the grind in DDO, thats a personal choice too. One thing that is NOT a personal choice, however, is that DDO has NO larger world. There is really no exploration whatsoever and the entire thing feels hugely linear and somewhat contrived to me. You cant really convince yourself that this isnt the case, since it is. To me, thats neither in the spirit of PNP NOR in the spirit of MMOs. I think thats a glaring omission that for, killed the whole thing. The dungeons were nice and the scripting was cool, but the whole thing felt just intensely retro. Start in the central tavern where everyone MUST be. Build a party of anyone who happens to be standing around. Run to dungeon. Plough through. Rinse and repeat, returning to tavern to heal, until you've unlocked the "next area", then repeat the process again. Keep following that pattern hoping you havent seen the whole thing before they can release new "undiscovered basements" within the same city or, perhaps, unlock new neighborhoods. it's like Bards Tale 1 with really nice graphics and scripting. To me, thats a step backwards in every way.
Sour grapes? Whatever.
I prefer a game without ridiculous artificial timesinks. For someone who prefers MUD-style play, this game isn't gonna be a good fit. For someone that doesn't have the time to sink into a "life" simulation, DDO is a VERY good fit.
I don't think DDO is an "artificially leveled playing field"... its not a competition, see? Its D&D... and in D&D we had names we called the type of player that had to "beat out" all the rest of the group. But usually, we were nice and just didn't call him next time we wanted to play.
But hey, your mileage may vary.
As far as saying DDO has ANY kind of grind... um. No. Not really. Not by ANY definition I'm aware of. Yes, if your goal is to cap then that's most efficiently done by grinding the same few high XP instances. But trying to hit cap in the least amount of time is kinda stupid in a game that limits the number of times you can run instances for XP and loot... and where the cap isn't going to be raised for months. The powergamers are just starting to realize that over on the official forums. They've capped XP, and depleted the chests in the level appropriate instances, and now they're realizing that the portion of the first module that'll be level-appropriate is gonna earn 'em zero XP.
Strategic error on their part, IMO. They played the game like a standard MUD-based, static content MMORPG. It isn't. Its an RPG (old school) in a MMO setting. Content is being added on a regular basis and there is no endgame per se. There is no NEED for artificial timesinks to slow down the consumption of content because those that consume content that quickly aren't the ones the game is aimed at.
So, retro or not, for me its a perfect fit. (well, still a bit narrow in the content, but it'll grow with time.)
Originally posted by Rhoklaw Let's be honest with ourselves. I mean really now, why would you waste the D&D trademark on a game that doesn't even surpass Guild Wars, which anyone can play for free. If your going to do something big, do it right for the sake of all that is sacred. DDO should have been more like EQ, not like Diablo and Guild Wars. D&D was an expansive game, where one module could have been in a town clear across the continent from another module. Also, why they chose the Eberron realm doesn't make much sense either. You could have accomplished a lot more with Greyhawk or Dragonlance for sure. Theres so many things wrong with DDO it boggles my mind. I'm 33, I played PnP D&D from 8 to about 24 and all I can say is, I'm severely disappointed, not only in the game mechanics, but the overall design. My grandmother could have came up with a better layout then this and shes dead for crying out loud. Praise DDO all you want, I can't even fathom what anyone sees in it besides another tasteless MMO to waste money on.
Just a couple of quick answers here...
I think that they chose Ebberon for two main reasons... 1. I think that WotC more or less said that this is the world you will use. After all it is the latest world, and the one that, I think, they (WotC) created on their own. And they want to promote it. 2. I think that Turbine also choose Eberon because it is fairly new and not much has been developed. So they can do as they please with Stormreach and no one can say "That is not the way it is supposed to be.". Just my thoughts anyways.
I also think that Turbine needed a "Cash Cow" to slaughter after they pulled the plug on AC2. I mean, you have a big name in DnD... Why not make something quick to make some money. They (Turbine) have admitted that they cannot affford to take a long time to put out a game since they are a relatively small gaming company.
Originally posted by Ian_Hawkmoon Originally posted by Rhoklaw Let's be honest with ourselves. I mean really now, why would you waste the D&D trademark on a game that doesn't even surpass Guild Wars, which anyone can play for free. If your going to do something big, do it right for the sake of all that is sacred. DDO should have been more like EQ, not like Diablo and Guild Wars. D&D was an expansive game, where one module could have been in a town clear across the continent from another module. Also, why they chose the Eberron realm doesn't make much sense either. You could have accomplished a lot more with Greyhawk or Dragonlance for sure. Theres so many things wrong with DDO it boggles my mind. I'm 33, I played PnP D&D from 8 to about 24 and all I can say is, I'm severely disappointed, not only in the game mechanics, but the overall design. My grandmother could have came up with a better layout then this and shes dead for crying out loud. Praise DDO all you want, I can't even fathom what anyone sees in it besides another tasteless MMO to waste money on. Just a couple of quick answers here... I think that they chose Ebberon for two main reasons... 1. I think that WotC more or less said that this is the world you will use. After all it is the latest world, and the one that, I think, they (WotC) created on their own. And they want to promote it. 2. I think that Turbine also choose Eberon because it is fairly new and not much has been developed. So they can do as they please with Stormreach and no one can say "That is not the way it is supposed to be.". Just my thoughts anyways. I also think that Turbine needed a "Cash Cow" to slaughter after they pulled the plug on AC2. I mean, you have a big name in DnD... Why not make something quick to make some money. They (Turbine) have admitted that they cannot affford to take a long time to put out a game since they are a relatively small gaming company.
Indeed, after playing DDO for 3 weeks i am now done with all the content the game has to offer for me, i already have a level 10 cleric... after 3 weeks of casual playing 2 hours a day, a little more on weekends.
I had to repeat quests multiple times from level 5 onwards just to get the experience need to level up and be able to do the content on the next area. When i reached level 8, new quest content simply ended, i had to repeat all the endgame quests more times than i could bare just to get to level 10.
And now i ask myself, what do i do next? repeat the same quests i already have been repeating since level 8? roleplay? how excatly can i roleplay my cleric without domains? without a good list of emotes, with completly instanced zones?
I cannot phantom how DDO will survive, the entire game has a "budget" feel to it, theres no continuity to the quests, no overall storyline to follow like in true DnD, theres nothing besides quest grinding, even then, i tried to not rush trough any dungeons or quests, i took my time to enjoy fully each dungeon and every unique element in them, but then i had repeated those same dungeons for 15-20 times just to get to level 10.
Conclusion? i just canceled my account, if the entire game content can be casualy done in less than a month, then its not gona be turbine´s first content patch that will add enough content to keep me entertained for the next 1,5-2 months, when their next content patch is expected after the upcoming one.
Originally posted by Kem0sabe Indeed, after playing DDO for 3 weeks i am now done with all the content the game has to offer for me, i already have a level 10 cleric... after 3 weeks of casual playing 2 hours a day, a little more on weekends.I had to repeat quests multiple times from level 5 onwards just to get the experience need to level up and be able to do the content on the next area. When i reached level 8, new quest content simply ended, i had to repeat all the endgame quests more times than i could bare just to get to level 10. And now i ask myself, what do i do next? repeat the same quests i already have been repeating since level 8? roleplay? how excatly can i roleplay my cleric without domains? without a good list of emotes, with completly instanced zones?I cannot phantom how DDO will survive, the entire game has a "budget" feel to it, theres no continuity to the quests, no overall storyline to follow like in true DnD, theres nothing besides quest grinding, even then, i tried to not rush trough any dungeons or quests, i took my time to enjoy fully each dungeon and every unique element in them, but then i had repeated those same dungeons for 15-20 times just to get to level 10.Conclusion? i just canceled my account, if the entire game content can be casualy done in less than a month, then its not gona be turbine´s first content patch that will add enough content to keep me entertained for the next 1,5-2 months, when their next content patch is expected after the upcoming one.
A huge part of how I felt the game was laughable in the beta. DDO really has nothing too offer and its only a matter of time before everyone realizes it. It looks like now they are trying to do an EQ 1 approach to entertain those that have reached level 10 already via raiding now?
Should be interesting to see how thing that content is.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Indeed, after playing DDO for 3 weeks i am now done with all the content the game has to offer for me, i already have a level 10 cleric... after 3 weeks of casual playing 2 hours a day, a little more on weekends.
3 weeks is about the limit for this game, IMHO. I went from DDO-lover to DDO-not-quite-but-almost-hater in 3 weeks in beta.
I expect that most people still supporting this game after ACTUALLY PLAYING it for more than 3 weeks are just doing it so as not to lose face on this (and other) forums. OK, now that's a bit too much generalization, I'm sure there's a few who still like it after 3 weeks, anyone volunteering as an example of that?
Originally posted by burrek I think 3 weeks of quality gameplay is perfectly reasonable for $50.
I totally agree burrek (and unfortunately for DDO most potential players already had their 3 weeks during the beta and are now gone), but generally you would expect more from a MMORPG. When I say more, I mean the ability to continue playing and building your personalized character/avatar in a continuing gameworld. DDO doesn't really have this after a certain point, in fact from the start it just seems like you're "team-soloing" through a bunch of RPG levels (as in game levels, not char levels).
Many people slag Guild Wars in this forum, but IMHO it's got a much better storyline (if DDO even qualifies as having a storyline), a much more immersive and explorable world, and the fact that when you hit the level cap there's still MASSIVE amounts of play-time left and that's not even counting PvP (plus to hit level cap you DON'T need to REPEAT a SINGLE MISSION!). All in all GW would be a MUCH better choice to spend your $50 on than DDO if you were looking for a game where you get instanced combat, tailored missions, no-mob-grinding, quest-based experience, with the added benefit that GW has a whole lot more (ie PvP, guild combat, and when the new chapter comes, Factional Wars across the landscape) and it doesn't have a MONTHLY FEE!
Originally posted by Razorback Originally posted by lunatis Turbine has definately taken a drop since Asheron's Call 1 Well lets inject a little fact then shall we. Turbine offered players what most of you say you want with AC2. Big expansive environment, crafting, city building, grinding in open areas etc etc etc... and all that good WoW type stuff. We all know what happened to AC2. In many ways it would be fair to argue that devs cant win with some people. Turbine obviously licked their wounds after AC2 and thought "ok WoW has proven that you dont need depth, complexity, immediate content, detailed crafting systems or any of that stuff to be successful". "We have a name here with D&D and we can either try and copy WoW and AC2's model, or we can try as hard as we can to strike a balance between PnP D&D and MMO gaming". Imho they got it about as perfectly right as they possibly could. Is the game for everyone ? HELL NO. Is the game enjoyble for those that really GET what Turbine is trying to achieve, HELL YES! I almost cancelled my pre-order after reading the official forums for weeks before my copy arrived as the Oz release was 2 weeks late, so I got to read LOTS of very negative stuff all from players with the same gripes. Cant heal/regen in dungeonsCant soloNot enough content Well Im so glad I didnt listen to them because this game just happens to suit me down to the ground. I only have 3-5 hours per day MAX between about 7pm and midnight when I get home from work to play these days. My days of 14 hour sessions in EQ1 are long gone. I have a fulltime job a mortgage and a family so D&D just hits the nail right on the head for me. I can log in, have a good adventure with no "work/grind" like every other MMO on the market you want to name. I play, I enjoy, I log out, feels like heaven. If this is a failed game, then I wish more devs would fail this bad. If this is a backward step from AC1 (which I played for almost 2 years) then they can keep heading backwards as fast as they want. It re-introduces an element to MMO gaming combat that we havnt seen since the days of UO year 1. This rare element is something that has been completely lost since EQ1 refined a playstyle that didnt require it. This element is known as SKILL!! Yes skill instead of pure math. Maybe thats why many poeple have trouble enjoying the game.
This game fell flat on it's face. I'm glad I didn't get it and you know why? Aside the level 10 limit, the game offers the same thing Neverwinter nights did. For example in the feat section, I read the way Cleave and Great cleave worked came to the conclusion that should of just rename the skills, Whirlwind and Greater Whirlwind Attack. Most of the melee attacks look like moves from other games. (Guild Wars and World of Warcraft come to mine.) I know Sunder was create by DnD, but I'm so sure about SAP, which seem similar to the WoW Rogue's Sap skill. I remember in the interview that company said that had trouble appealing the PnP feats to the game and I didn't know why at time.
After I saw the feat section, I began to understand why DnD based-games were doing pooring in the past and now in the present is because the PnP feat and battle system was created for situational purposes because the DM created the situational events you got into. Video gameplay cannot be made situational because all situational pre-made and cycle themselves on repetitive execution of a program. Meaning everything in this game is premade and will follow pattern that can easily be countered. In order for DnD to survive, it needs to change how it system works.
Never Winter Night was great in the beginning because it introduced DnD of the experience, but it did poorly as the second and third sequels were introduced. The reason being is because players realize the monster couldn't think (unless you put a hak pak in), classes were imbalanced both PvE and PvP wise and lot of moves never made it or were redesign to work different in the game, the result of which imbalanced certain classes even more. (The Ranger in NwN and this game have few skills, which means they are heavily underpowered.)
If I wanted that kind of gameplay again, I would have repurchase the NWN. Again, unless DnD-based games change their mechanics and gameplay, they are always going to fail. Yet, I do see changing as equally being bad to DnD's appealment to the fans. If they do change, that would make DnD based games no different from other current MMORPGs out there and the original DnD experiene will be lost. Simply put, DnD laid the foundation for future RPGs to emerged and inspired generations to come to do better (and they have), but if DnD is unable to adapt and change itself then it'll die out.
I had great hopes for this game when I signed up for the beta. Then they were crushed by the un p&p like gameplay.
I also bought the game in the hopes that the final product had all the bugs worked out. The bugs were fixed, frequent and rapid patching. All in all a pretty polished product.
Then I uninstalled a month later due to utter and complete boredom.
The way they have all the classes set up in reguards to balancing is completely off base.
The amount of skill points they allocate is pitifull.
The talent point system makes each and every level monotonus.
There is very little difference in the weapon dynamics besides small/med/large.
The 20hp heroic durability feat was a horrible mistake, made to allow the mobs to get a HP increase that royally screwed over all casters. The same thing could have been done by just adding 0lvl HP and abilities into the game.
Not making every mob lootable with all item slots shown was a big mistake.
+8 to hit at lvl 1, and I need to roll an 18 to hit Ironspike........
No crafting....and yes in every p&p game I've been a part of we made extensive use of crafting skills. From D&D, to Warhammer FRP, GURPS, Rolemaster, Shadowrun, White Wolf, Battletech/Mechwarrior, Traveler, Star wars, Rifts, Palladium....U name it. Crafting is a big part P&P, and any MMORPG worth it's salt should have it also.
IMO they got the scope of the game all wrong. They either should have made an MMORPG loosely based on D&D. Or they should have made the game RTB(Rapid Turn Based) Because after all a DM generally allows you time to think through and plan out each round.
I'm a veteran MMORPG and P&P player of many years, and it sucks to say it but this game just plain feels half assed. And it will fail because Turbine in their desire to satisfy everyone has satisfied only the fervent few who linger so they can vie for sympathy when this game is rembered as the complete failure it is.
Originally posted by burrek I think 3 weeks of quality gameplay is perfectly reasonable for $50.
That's a pretty sad expectation for your dollar, especially from an MMO where you have to pay $50 PLUS a monthly fee.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Intersting posts. It makes me sad actually. I started playing DnD with my friends and always dreamed of the characters coming to life under my control on the screen. Too bad it sounds like the game is not completed yet and turning people off. I know this is a hard thing to understand - but just wait. Dont run out and buy the products. Let others be the labrats. I am betting that with a few more months they will have an interesting storyline and background to start your character and advance for hours on end. Time, please, give them time. I dont want to see DnD get a black eye.
Just a poor plea from my first DnD character : "Hersaint Bloodburst" Cleric
Originally posted by Fadeus Originally posted by burrek I think 3 weeks of quality gameplay is perfectly reasonable for $50.That's a pretty sad expectation for your dollar, especially from an MMO where you have to pay $50 PLUS a monthly fee.
Both independant sellers of DDO are running specials here. The store that focuses on comics, PnP, minatures, and anime is selling it for $34.99. The store focused on video games and PC modding is offering it for $25 with 2 console games (PS2, Xbox, or DS) or $35 with a single 360 trade in.
Don't like it? Unsubscribe PLEASE and shut up about it!
I liked it. I play it.
Go whine on the Shadowbane forums and let us enjoy what we like. Shut up and GO AWAY! Tired of logging in to read about a game others and I enjoy and instead I see 10 threads written by $%@#*&; who have obviously never played the game and are just rewritting other people's opinions from early beta without giving the original poster credit (discredit more like it).
Some people just like to see themselves in print.
PLEASE feel free to play some other game and post ANYWHERE else. Ii is the American way. It is also my right to ignore any future opinions you have.
Comments
I'm glad you have your own opinion, but my opinion says your opinion is BS. You are expertly qualifed to give your opinion, but that does not mean that the opinion itself is expertly qualified.
Here is a question for you:
What's more DnD: DDO or Silent Storm? (in case you have not played Silent Storm it is a turn based strategy game that has a very simialr rule and class system to DnD)
I never said my opinion was expertly qualified... Just my opinion... And it stands as such... DDO is a bad representation of PnP DnD.
Since I have never heard of Silent Storm, let alone played it, I cannot give an answer to your question.
And I will not get into this type of question and answer trap game with you, Burrek. Kind of like asking this question... "Which is more like a tomato, an apple or a pear?" All three are actually fruit, even tho our government decided to call a tomato a vegetable.
Actually Razor I suffered through the release of AC 2 and everything you say that Turbine figured out they don't need and why AC 2 went wrong isn't the reasons. I wouldn't even say Turbine could claim to have most of that at the time of launch or even 6 months after it. Turbine assasinated AC 2 themselves in many ways, most of which were technical and had nothing to do with it having depth or a detailed crafting system or anything of the likes which it really didn't.
The short list of what killed AC 2:
- No cities
- No market system
- The loss of ALL chat except local for over 3 months of time
- an absolutely miserable launch that lasted for about 6 months before they finally got their act together
- It lacking of depth. (their concept of depth was a 3 frame storyboard with some deep voiced guy telling a story of something that happenned in a manner of a teacher reading to kindergartners).
- Fixes to the game that dramtically made it less. (example: finally fixing the pathing problems after months of pains by literally removing 3/4 of all the tree's on the entire map)
And things of that nature. THAT is what killed AC 2 and left everyone bitter over it in my opinion. I don't care how good of a game you have if you leave chat broken for 3 months and don't decide to roll the server back pre-patch within a day of the problem you are just screwing yourselves.
Turbine showed a complete lack of vision with AC 2. They removed the need for interaction completely. You could trash or sell items right from your inventory on the field so no-one the only time you ever saw another person was when you were travelling the gates. Turbine took all the elements of MMO OUT with AC 2.
And too me this same lack of understanding good gameplay is what has made DDO a very poor game.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I never said my opinion was expertly qualified... Just my opinion... And it stands as such... DDO is a bad representation of PnP DnD.
Since I have never heard of Silent Storm, let alone played it, I cannot give an answer to your question.
And I will not get into this type of question and answer trap game with you, Burrek. Kind of like asking this question... "Which is more like a tomato, an apple or a pear?" All three are actually fruit, even tho our government decided to call a tomato a vegetable.
Since it is impossible to convince anyone that their opinion is wrong my questions serve to inpire self examination and reflection on your part.
I believe DDO is a good representation of what DnD is, in the medium of computer games, just like I belive that the "Lord of the Rings" are a good representation of "The Lord of the Ring" books even though they alter the content drastically. That is my opinion and I'm not trying to going to proclaim that this is they way things are, unlike you Ian, and will only say that I feel that way.
Semantics aside... Go play the MUD I gave you a link for, I hear it's just like DnD.
I never said my opinion was expertly qualified... Just my opinion... And it stands as such... DDO is a bad representation of PnP DnD.
Since I have never heard of Silent Storm, let alone played it, I cannot give an answer to your question.
And I will not get into this type of question and answer trap game with you, Burrek. Kind of like asking this question... "Which is more like a tomato, an apple or a pear?" All three are actually fruit, even tho our government decided to call a tomato a vegetable.
Since it is impossible to convince anyone that their opinion is wrong my questions serve to inpire self examination and reflection on your part.
I believe DDO is a good representation of what DnD is, in the medium of computer games, just like I belive that the "Lord of the Rings" are a good representation of "The Lord of the Ring" books even though they alter the content drastically. That is my opinion and I'm not trying to going to proclaim that this is they way things are, unlike you Ian, and will only say that I feel that way.
Semantics aside... Go play the MUD I gave you a link for, I hear it's just like DnD.
You are kidding? Right? DDO is a good representation of DnD in the medium of computer games? What about all of the games from Bioware? they are a far better representation of DnD than DDO. DDO "might" be a good representation of DnD in the MMO arena... But that is it, and that is pushing it.
REALLY pushing it.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Being a veteran of all the big MMO's, I recently picked up DDO in the hopes of playing something fresh, unique. To my delight, DDO offered such a game. Many gamers, including myself, are sick of the grind which is required to have a 'good' character. Sure, you have a wonderful world to explore in EQ and WOW. But how many people can honestly admit they spend their gaming hours exploring? Exploring a world was a great amount of fun in the original eq (before planes of power), but quickly loses its luster. DDO puts the focus on strategy and personal relationships. You need to know how to work with each of your groupmates in order to complete the quest. If you want to grind your ass away on the same mob for countless hours, WOW is calling your name. I leveled my character to 60 before getting my first group. I too, was deathly afraid of the lack of options (no crafting, exploring, all instanced), however, DDO provides the most fun quests to date in any game. I find myself grouping for hours on end with the same people...and that is the heart of DDO. That is what makes it a DND game in an MMO world. It is not completely DND, nor MMO, yet it creates its own niche.
Umm, I have used an out of game map to find something ONCE and I explore constantly so I can have more of my map exposed and check out as many VERY VERY diverse zones as I can. I love it, but I am a hunter and I feel that is part of the class.
I have yet to grind in this game, all my experience has been gained by either a quest in game or via some personal quest of mine such as my morning fishing runs along the wild shore or similar situations. I have never been in a hurry to get level 60 and I am enjoying every level of the game as it is. I am excited to get there but I am not in a hurry to give up that excitement either.
The game is what you make of it. With DDO I saw no ability to have such a scope of things to do in my gameplay. All I saw was a city and alot of basements to go through. Sorry but that just isn't exciting too me. And I did solo all the ones I did during beta.
If you ground WoW it was because you chose to play it that way.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
So instead of grinding kills in WoW or other MMOs you grind out quests in DD0. Because they dont' have enough of them to level you up for that level.
Grind mobs, grind same old quests. Whats the difference.
Nothing.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
So instead of grinding kills in WoW or other MMOs you grind out quests in DD0. Because they dont' have enough of them to level you up for that level.
Grind mobs, grind same old quests. Whats the difference.
Nothing.
Great, great point. Its somewhat unsettling to me that most of the really vocal supporters of DDO seem to be primarily driven by some kind of bitterness regarding the character development approach of MMOs. All this talk of "skill" (LOL to that one), and not needing "uber gear" or having to "grind" to have the "best character" really just smacks of sour grapes.
If you really want a game with an artificially leveled playing field where two people are completely equal whether they play 1 minute per day or 24 hours per day, should you really be playing an RPG? If you really want NO reward for time put in, and pure "skill" based play, then play Halo. Or do you not have enough NATURAL ability to feel rewarded in the FPS/RTS world?
People seem to want it both ways. A system that removes any benefits of putting time into a character, yet isnt purely twitch based. how is that possible?
Having played the DDO beta, it completely does NOT achieve that (as it would really be an impossible goal). DDO has, if anything, a more annoying grind then ever but its superfans are simply choosing to ignore it because they WANT to love this game.
Well guess what? You could ignore the grind in WoW also. I'd say that given how easily you can power grind a char to 60 in WoW, and the fact that it is maintaining FOUR MILLION SUBS with NO NEW CONTENT, implies that people are doing more than "just grinding" in WoW. I also have loved exploring that world, doing quests, tradeskilling, etc. and I eventually hit 60 and made a new char to do the same from the Horde perspective. I played EQ and EQ2 the same way.
If you choose to approach the traditional MMO as nothing but a grind, thats really a personal choice. If you the decide to ignore the grind in DDO, thats a personal choice too.
One thing that is NOT a personal choice, however, is that DDO has NO larger world. There is really no exploration whatsoever and the entire thing feels hugely linear and somewhat contrived to me. You cant really convince yourself that this isnt the case, since it is. To me, thats neither in the spirit of PNP NOR in the spirit of MMOs. I think thats a glaring omission that for, killed the whole thing.
The dungeons were nice and the scripting was cool, but the whole thing felt just intensely retro. Start in the central tavern where everyone MUST be. Build a party of anyone who happens to be standing around. Run to dungeon. Plough through. Rinse and repeat, returning to tavern to heal, until you've unlocked the "next area", then repeat the process again. Keep following that pattern hoping you havent seen the whole thing before they can release new "undiscovered basements" within the same city or, perhaps, unlock new neighborhoods. it's like Bards Tale 1 with really nice graphics and scripting. To me, thats a step backwards in every way.
Sour grapes? Whatever.
I prefer a game without ridiculous artificial timesinks. For someone who prefers MUD-style play, this game isn't gonna be a good fit. For someone that doesn't have the time to sink into a "life" simulation, DDO is a VERY good fit.
I don't think DDO is an "artificially leveled playing field"... its not a competition, see? Its D&D... and in D&D we had names we called the type of player that had to "beat out" all the rest of the group. But usually, we were nice and just didn't call him next time we wanted to play.
But hey, your mileage may vary.
As far as saying DDO has ANY kind of grind... um. No. Not really. Not by ANY definition I'm aware of. Yes, if your goal is to cap then that's most efficiently done by grinding the same few high XP instances. But trying to hit cap in the least amount of time is kinda stupid in a game that limits the number of times you can run instances for XP and loot... and where the cap isn't going to be raised for months. The powergamers are just starting to realize that over on the official forums. They've capped XP, and depleted the chests in the level appropriate instances, and now they're realizing that the portion of the first module that'll be level-appropriate is gonna earn 'em zero XP.
Strategic error on their part, IMO. They played the game like a standard MUD-based, static content MMORPG. It isn't. Its an RPG (old school) in a MMO setting. Content is being added on a regular basis and there is no endgame per se. There is no NEED for artificial timesinks to slow down the consumption of content because those that consume content that quickly aren't the ones the game is aimed at.
So, retro or not, for me its a perfect fit. (well, still a bit narrow in the content, but it'll grow with time.)
Just a couple of quick answers here...
I think that they chose Ebberon for two main reasons... 1. I think that WotC more or less said that this is the world you will use. After all it is the latest world, and the one that, I think, they (WotC) created on their own. And they want to promote it. 2. I think that Turbine also choose Eberon because it is fairly new and not much has been developed. So they can do as they please with Stormreach and no one can say "That is not the way it is supposed to be.". Just my thoughts anyways.
I also think that Turbine needed a "Cash Cow" to slaughter after they pulled the plug on AC2. I mean, you have a big name in DnD... Why not make something quick to make some money. They (Turbine) have admitted that they cannot affford to take a long time to put out a game since they are a relatively small gaming company.
Indeed, after playing DDO for 3 weeks i am now done with all the content the game has to offer for me, i already have a level 10 cleric... after 3 weeks of casual playing 2 hours a day, a little more on weekends.
I had to repeat quests multiple times from level 5 onwards just to get the experience need to level up and be able to do the content on the next area. When i reached level 8, new quest content simply ended, i had to repeat all the endgame quests more times than i could bare just to get to level 10.
And now i ask myself, what do i do next? repeat the same quests i already have been repeating since level 8? roleplay? how excatly can i roleplay my cleric without domains? without a good list of emotes, with completly instanced zones?
I cannot phantom how DDO will survive, the entire game has a "budget" feel to it, theres no continuity to the quests, no overall storyline to follow like in true DnD, theres nothing besides quest grinding, even then, i tried to not rush trough any dungeons or quests, i took my time to enjoy fully each dungeon and every unique element in them, but then i had repeated those same dungeons for 15-20 times just to get to level 10.
Conclusion? i just canceled my account, if the entire game content can be casualy done in less than a month, then its not gona be turbine´s first content patch that will add enough content to keep me entertained for the next 1,5-2 months, when their next content patch is expected after the upcoming one.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
A huge part of how I felt the game was laughable in the beta. DDO really has nothing too offer and its only a matter of time before everyone realizes it. It looks like now they are trying to do an EQ 1 approach to entertain those that have reached level 10 already via raiding now?
Should be interesting to see how thing that content is.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
3 weeks is about the limit for this game, IMHO. I went from DDO-lover to DDO-not-quite-but-almost-hater in 3 weeks in beta.
I expect that most people still supporting this game after ACTUALLY PLAYING it for more than 3 weeks are just doing it so as not to lose face on this (and other) forums. OK, now that's a bit too much generalization, I'm sure there's a few who still like it after 3 weeks, anyone volunteering as an example of that?
I think 3 weeks of quality gameplay is perfectly reasonable for $50.
I totally agree burrek (and unfortunately for DDO most potential players already had their 3 weeks during the beta and are now gone), but generally you would expect more from a MMORPG. When I say more, I mean the ability to continue playing and building your personalized character/avatar in a continuing gameworld. DDO doesn't really have this after a certain point, in fact from the start it just seems like you're "team-soloing" through a bunch of RPG levels (as in game levels, not char levels).
Many people slag Guild Wars in this forum, but IMHO it's got a much better storyline (if DDO even qualifies as having a storyline), a much more immersive and explorable world, and the fact that when you hit the level cap there's still MASSIVE amounts of play-time left and that's not even counting PvP (plus to hit level cap you DON'T need to REPEAT a SINGLE MISSION!). All in all GW would be a MUCH better choice to spend your $50 on than DDO if you were looking for a game where you get instanced combat, tailored missions, no-mob-grinding, quest-based experience, with the added benefit that GW has a whole lot more (ie PvP, guild combat, and when the new chapter comes, Factional Wars across the landscape) and it doesn't have a MONTHLY FEE!
This game fell flat on it's face. I'm glad I didn't get it and you know why? Aside the level 10 limit, the game offers the same thing Neverwinter nights did. For example in the feat section, I read the way Cleave and Great cleave worked came to the conclusion that should of just rename the skills, Whirlwind and Greater Whirlwind Attack. Most of the melee attacks look like moves from other games. (Guild Wars and World of Warcraft come to mine.) I know Sunder was create by DnD, but I'm so sure about SAP, which seem similar to the WoW Rogue's Sap skill. I remember in the interview that company said that had trouble appealing the PnP feats to the game and I didn't know why at time.
After I saw the feat section, I began to understand why DnD based-games were doing pooring in the past and now in the present is because the PnP feat and battle system was created for situational purposes because the DM created the situational events you got into. Video gameplay cannot be made situational because all situational pre-made and cycle themselves on repetitive execution of a program. Meaning everything in this game is premade and will follow pattern that can easily be countered. In order for DnD to survive, it needs to change how it system works.
Never Winter Night was great in the beginning because it introduced DnD of the experience, but it did poorly as the second and third sequels were introduced. The reason being is because players realize the monster couldn't think (unless you put a hak pak in), classes were imbalanced both PvE and PvP wise and lot of moves never made it or were redesign to work different in the game, the result of which imbalanced certain classes even more. (The Ranger in NwN and this game have few skills, which means they are heavily underpowered.)
If I wanted that kind of gameplay again, I would have repurchase the NWN. Again, unless DnD-based games change their mechanics and gameplay, they are always going to fail. Yet, I do see changing as equally being bad to DnD's appealment to the fans. If they do change, that would make DnD based games no different from other current MMORPGs out there and the original DnD experiene will be lost. Simply put, DnD laid the foundation for future RPGs to emerged and inspired generations to come to do better (and they have), but if DnD is unable to adapt and change itself then it'll die out.
I had great hopes for this game when I signed up for the beta. Then they were crushed by the un p&p like gameplay.
I also bought the game in the hopes that the final product had all the bugs worked out. The bugs were fixed, frequent and rapid patching. All in all a pretty polished product.
Then I uninstalled a month later due to utter and complete boredom.
The way they have all the classes set up in reguards to balancing is completely off base.
The amount of skill points they allocate is pitifull.
The talent point system makes each and every level monotonus.
There is very little difference in the weapon dynamics besides small/med/large.
The 20hp heroic durability feat was a horrible mistake, made to allow the mobs to get a HP increase that royally screwed over all casters. The same thing could have been done by just adding 0lvl HP and abilities into the game.
Not making every mob lootable with all item slots shown was a big mistake.
+8 to hit at lvl 1, and I need to roll an 18 to hit Ironspike........
No crafting....and yes in every p&p game I've been a part of we made extensive use of crafting skills. From D&D, to Warhammer FRP, GURPS, Rolemaster, Shadowrun, White Wolf, Battletech/Mechwarrior, Traveler, Star wars, Rifts, Palladium....U name it. Crafting is a big part P&P, and any MMORPG worth it's salt should have it also.
IMO they got the scope of the game all wrong. They either should have made an MMORPG loosely based on D&D. Or they should have made the game RTB(Rapid Turn Based) Because after all a DM generally allows you time to think through and plan out each round.
I'm a veteran MMORPG and P&P player of many years, and it sucks to say it but this game just plain feels half assed. And it will fail because Turbine in their desire to satisfy everyone has satisfied only the fervent few who linger so they can vie for sympathy when this game is rembered as the complete failure it is.
That's a pretty sad expectation for your dollar, especially from an MMO where you have to pay $50 PLUS a monthly fee.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Intersting posts. It makes me sad actually. I started playing DnD with my friends and always dreamed of the characters coming to life under my control on the screen. Too bad it sounds like the game is not completed yet and turning people off. I know this is a hard thing to understand - but just wait. Dont run out and buy the products. Let others be the labrats. I am betting that with a few more months they will have an interesting storyline and background to start your character and advance for hours on end. Time, please, give them time. I dont want to see DnD get a black eye.
Just a poor plea from my first DnD character : "Hersaint Bloodburst" Cleric
Both independant sellers of DDO are running specials here. The store that focuses on comics, PnP, minatures, and anime is selling it for $34.99. The store focused on video games and PC modding is offering it for $25 with 2 console games (PS2, Xbox, or DS) or $35 with a single 360 trade in.
Still $45-$50 at the chain stores though
Haven't tried it? Don't complain about it!
Don't like it? Unsubscribe PLEASE and shut up about it!
I liked it. I play it.
Go whine on the Shadowbane forums and let us enjoy what we like. Shut up and GO AWAY! Tired of logging in to read about a game others and I enjoy and instead I see 10 threads written by $%@#*&; who have obviously never played the game and are just rewritting other people's opinions from early beta without giving the original poster credit (discredit more like it).
Some people just like to see themselves in print.
PLEASE feel free to play some other game and post ANYWHERE else. Ii is the American way. It is also my right to ignore any future opinions you have.