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Can You Find the MMO Sweet Spot? - Garrett Fuller at MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
edited September 2016 in News & Features Discussion

imageCan You Find the MMO Sweet Spot? - Garrett Fuller at MMORPG.com

With Legion now out and millions of players getting back into WoW, it seems like the MMO slump is starting to end. Why you ask? Well, many MMOs remain alive and do very well for the companies that run them. The trick is, there is nothing new coming to the table. At least, that is, for now. All of that will change soon as a host of new games hit the market and nostalgic players will join with a new legion of MMO fans.

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Comments

  • ApexTKMApexTKM Member UncommonPosts: 334
    If mmos are going back to the pre-WoW era, then yes, mmos are making a return. To me at least, pre-WoW and early WoW days were like the prime of the mmo genre. After WoW the genre went in decline because all the big studios copied and pasted WoW to their game. I wouldn't get my hopes up on the amount of better games out in the next few years but I'll just say some of them have potential. Which is a good thing but I'll continue to endorse The Repopulation as one of those games with the potential.
    The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.

    But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
  • exile01exile01 Member RarePosts: 1,089
    Noone wants that horrible "no life 24/7 grind era" back that MMOs started with. If you do, then theres a big ass problem in your real life.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    exile01 said:
    Noone wants that horrible "no life 24/7 grind era" back that MMOs started with. If you do, then theres a big ass problem in your real life.
    GRIND is a very poorly used term.

    If your favorite past time was collecting money,you could spend 12 hours a day doing it and NOT call it grind.In other words if something is fun or enjoyable and that is EXACTLY what games SHOULD be,then there is NO such thing as grind.
     a ROLE playing game is not an instant flash or browser game of Tetris,it is SUPPOSE to be a living ordeal,to take part in long term life on some virtual planet living out a virtual life.That sort of idea and design does not happen instantly or it would be a really crap design .

    Who was the first to have no integrity towards their own game?Well Blizzard of course ,a SELLOUT business that would ruin the integrity of their game for $$$$,just ;like p2w games do,they don't care it is all about money.

    Here is a hint,if you want INSTANT action,go find that type of genre/game because it is NOT a ROLE PLAYING game design.Also any developer trying to make that type of game and call their game a mmorpg,should be shot and removed from making games.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • VolgoreVolgore Member EpicPosts: 3,872
    " The trick is, there is nothing new coming to the table. At least, that is, for now. "

    I'd say that huge part of this stagnation is the gamerbase itself.
    People complain about getting the same WoW-clones since 10 years, but whenever a title did something different, people didn't know what to do with it and yelled at it.
    Various of BDO's systems, GW2 dynamic events...

    -players complain about tab targeting...and as well complain about the combat in those games who took a different approach (Wildstar, AoC...it even goes back to Chronicles of Spellborn)
    -players complain about cartoon graphics...and as well about the graphics in every game that didn't come cartoonish.
    -players complain about every thempark that gets released, about streamlined content and about hand holding. If a game for once does not hold their hands and leads them on rails, nobody seems to be able to handle that freedom and find their way on their own. (see BDO i.e.)

    =players called for something new for years and at the same time weren't ready for anything that was not the same old.

    We get what we deserve here. As long was we help kickstarting games with 2004 systems and technology, pre-order $150 scam packs orfall for pre-release hype and buy everything on release day there won't be nothing new coming to the table. And that is mostly on us.

    image
  • ApexTKMApexTKM Member UncommonPosts: 334
    edited September 2016
    Volgore said:
    " The trick is, there is nothing new coming to the table. At least, that is, for now. "

    I'd say that huge part of this stagnation is the gamerbase itself.
    People complain about getting the same WoW-clones since 10 years, but whenever a title did something different, people didn't know what to do with it and yelled at it.
    Various of BDO's systems, GW2 dynamic events...

    there won't be nothing new coming to the table. And that is mostly on us.
    Different people complain about different things, you can't please everyone. The same ones complaining, aren't the same ones that get confused in BDO etc. Actually you never know for sure if the same ones complaining are the same ones complaining about what they asked for. I think you mean when a title did something a little bit different. I dont think we need something completely new but get away from WoW as far as possible, take ideas from old mmos, then make some small little new thing or twist and it'll be fine imo.

    I just want to add that non-WoW doesn't have to mean a totally new mmo.
    The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.

    But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    I disagree,i feel a non WOW should steer far away form that type of game.Let me put it this way,when a developer is willing to SELL YOU end game to IGNORE their actual game,they are pretty much a sellout and admitting their actual game sucks.SOE is the other doing it,need i say more and guess what an identical game to WOW.

    Someone above hit the nail perfectly on the head..."You can't please everyone".As true as that statement is,you most certainly CAN make the game you claim to be making and you can stick to ideals that belong in your genre.I say proper ideas that pertain to plausible ideas as you would expect them.Example you would not expect to see pink elephants flying around in the air nor would you expect an entire population in a living world to actually NOT have anywhere to live...ahem Wow.

    MMO's making a comeback?How many games are actually MMO's?NONE of the moba's,NONE of the TCG's,not CS ,none of the popular games are mmo's.Wow has ONLY jumped back into twitch spotlight because it has a new release,otherwise the game dwindles down low on the list.Actually EVERY single new game hits top list then disappears,so it really says that NOTHING remains interesting past a couple months,that says devs are making non interesting games.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ApexTKMApexTKM Member UncommonPosts: 334
    edited September 2016
    Wizardry said:
    I disagree,i feel a non WOW should steer far away form that type of game.Let me put it this way,when a developer is willing to SELL YOU end game to IGNORE their actual game,they are pretty much a sellout and admitting their actual game sucks.SOE is the other doing it,need i say more and guess what an identical game to WOW.

    When I said a non-WoW I really meant it. WoW isn't the only old mmo, theres other mmos that belong in the old mmo category. Theres already old mmos that are non-WoW. This is why I said it doesn't need to be a completely new mmo. Use the foundation of the past but steer away from WoW as far as possible like you said.

    But if people really want something completely new in terms of an mmo, look at Eldurian's thread "little to no leveling" or whatever the title of that thread is check that out. 

    Edit: Actually you know what, yea, completely new will revitalize the genre so I guess we do need something completely new. I dont know why I said it doesnt need to be.
    The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.

    But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
  • OrthelianOrthelian Member UncommonPosts: 1,034
    ApexTKM said:
    If mmos are going back to the pre-WoW era, then yes, mmos are making a return. To me at least, pre-WoW and early WoW days were like the prime of the mmo genre. After WoW the genre went in decline because all the big studios copied and pasted WoW to their game. I wouldn't get my hopes up on the amount of better games out in the next few years but I'll just say some of them have potential. Which is a good thing but I'll continue to endorse The Repopulation as one of those games with the potential.
    Of course, before WoW it was EQ in that position, and WoW was part of its clone army. It's all evolutionary.

    Favorites: EQEVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CUPantheon
  • Sassy_Gay_UnicornSassy_Gay_Unicorn Member UncommonPosts: 316
    I don't believe there has been any slowdown in the MMO scene at least in terms of population. It's more spread out of course, which I suppose can give that impression. But I would certainly wager there has been positive growth every year since UO came out.
  • AstraeisAstraeis Member UncommonPosts: 378

    It takes one to know one.

  • BigRamboBigRambo Member UncommonPosts: 191
    The sweet spot for the MMO industry would be for a company like Nexon (one of many) to stop releasing 10 MMO's of the same type and fuse them to create the OMGWTFBBQ MMO. I can take Gpotato (another example out of many) with their 10+ titles where each has a strong point, take all their strong points and fuse them in to 1 game and maybe, JUST MAYBE, at that point I wouldn't mind P2W titles and maybe at that point, P2W titles wouldn't be flushed down the toilet on day 1 by Western consumers. 

     At the end of the day, there's a reason why we still only got 1 WoW out of Blizzard and still has more subs than most of the F2P titles concurrent daily users combined.  Blizzard got the right approach by working the living crap out of 1 title and maybe we'll see a WoW-2 the day WoW subs drops below 500K, but we're still about 10 years away from that, if not more. 


      But still, after all that, I'd take Maple Story over One Man's Lie any day.  ;)
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,347
    Contrary to your assertion, some gamers do get bored.  Sometimes I see people log into a game only to declare in chat that they're bored.  To that, I sometimes reply that if playing this game makes you bored, maybe you shouldn't.
  • ApexTKMApexTKM Member UncommonPosts: 334
    I don't believe there has been any slowdown in the MMO scene at least in terms of population. It's more spread out of course, which I suppose can give that impression. But I would certainly wager there has been positive growth every year since UO came out.
    Yeah but to me this is a problem, mmos releasing is a lot more common than a decade ago so the population is more spread out, I can't tell if thats a bad thing or a good thing anymore tbh with you but I'd argue that it isn't. 

    And yea blizzard has the right idea, their plan isn't to release a new mmo every month, their plan is to continue working on their 1 mmo, WoW.
    The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.

    But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
  • JMulla2016JMulla2016 Member UncommonPosts: 12
    The gamerbase for MMOs is growing everyday, as the number of MMOs also seems to rise. At least it seems like that to me. The problem is lack of quality. I don't think it's a comeback, more of a step in the spotlight due to a few solid games or updates of some.

    This will need to change as too many cashgrab MMOs are made that will saturate the gamers and the market, if they already haven't. On the other hand, I think the gamers are polarized between familiar, similar (or downright same) concepts and occasional innovations or not-seen-before stuff that they have a hard time accepting or getting used to. It's a weird situation, but as long as there is something that sells, there will be tons of it made.

    The end user is the key here, ergo the gamers. Demanding quality and rejecting sub-par copies of games will turn around the situation.
  • AstraeisAstraeis Member UncommonPosts: 378
    edited September 2016
    I guess we will just see many more Everquest clones. Real innovation is unpredictable and will come as a surprise, but we can always hope for it to happen. But I won't see it coming and neither will this site.

    It takes one to know one.

  • WicasaWicasa Member UncommonPosts: 77
    Warcraft's graphics are perfect for high frame rate demanding WoW VR. VR is what's going to bring back that first WoW experience and boost the genre. Isn't creator of second life working on a VR MMORPG where we can create and make real money? Project Sansar...
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    Wizardry said:
    exile01 said:
    Noone wants that horrible "no life 24/7 grind era" back that MMOs started with. If you do, then theres a big ass problem in your real life.
    GRIND is a very poorly used term.

    If your favorite past time was collecting money,you could spend 12 hours a day doing it and NOT call it grind.In other words if something is fun or enjoyable and that is EXACTLY what games SHOULD be,then there is NO such thing as grind.
     a ROLE playing game is not an instant flash or browser game of Tetris,it is SUPPOSE to be a living ordeal,to take part in long term life on some virtual planet living out a virtual life.That sort of idea and design does not happen instantly or it would be a really crap design .

    Who was the first to have no integrity towards their own game?Well Blizzard of course ,a SELLOUT business that would ruin the integrity of their game for $$$$,just ;like p2w games do,they don't care it is all about money.

    Here is a hint,if you want INSTANT action,go find that type of genre/game because it is NOT a ROLE PLAYING game design.Also any developer trying to make that type of game and call their game a mmorpg,should be shot and removed from making games.

    For myself, I say everything I do in a game is 'grind'.  So I don't have a grind issue. :D
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

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    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,759
    Are mmorpgs comming back?
    Well, a epic mmorpg require strong visions and taking risks, instead of following the same path of all current mmos. That mmorpg will also need to be of high quality with a lot of content to keep player retention.
    Problems are that this require a substantial amount of investment and investors do not like untested grounds.

    The many upcomming and promising (from a mmorpg players perspective) crowdfunded indie games do not have the funding, sometimes not the expertise, to pull off high quality massive content. Many will fail, but I think in 5 years a few will have survived - AND THEN they may grow into true epic mmorpgs. Don't expect an amazing epic non story-driven mmorpg for years, though there will be smaller games that shows that potential.
  • MitaraMitara Member UncommonPosts: 755
    So noone wants an Ultima Online 2 type of game? Sad :/
  • sketocafesketocafe Member UncommonPosts: 950
    I don't want a comeback. I want things to move forward. I never want to see hotbar combat or threat table AI again. I never want to be asked to kill 10 bear asses again for the rest of my life. You want MMOs to be popular again? Get devs to spend money on all the design areas that have been on minimum resource cruise-control for the past 15 years.
  • BigRamboBigRambo Member UncommonPosts: 191
    I kept reading until halfway through the "Variety" paragraph, and got reminded all of a sudden about No Man's Sky, I just lol'ed and stop reading at that point. Anyway, we got one hell of a kick ass generation of gamers, don't we? Variety? Explain to me again why a 12 year old game such as WoW still has more subs P2P than 80% of the MMO's released since 2004 combined? I'm all for variety, but some solid quality variety is what we need, not 20 half botched beta releases we keep getting every year where the honey moon phase lasts 2 weeks before that new MMO release starts losing 3/4 of it's player base. You want to talk about something new coming to the table starting 2017? Hack N' Slash genre is going to be loaded. Forget the conventional MMORPG that we're used to for 20 years now of clicking a NPC, skipping text and killing 5 rats / return / rinse/ repeat. The MMORPG is going no where besides for WoW / FF14 (funny how both are P2P and are by far the ones doing great). Come back to me when a company like Nexon (one of MANY) stops releasing 20 games, each with flaws coming out the wazoo and actually starts working on ONE mega MMO, like Blizzard did with WoW and SE with FF14. Also, please don't put MOBA and MMORPG in the same sentence, it's stupid and it's like comparing a Honda Civic to a 18 wheeler, not the same thing. I'm also sick and tired of Eastern MMO devs that keep selling Western markets their garbage, it should be pretty freaking clear by now, after 15+ years that Eastern / Western markets don't have the same tastes AT ALL when it comes to a MMORPG.
  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Member UncommonPosts: 1,237
    I don't think MMOs need to change (at least for my tastes). All I ever wanted was a virtual world to play in that had some (long) quests and things to work towards (epic weapons, crafting, etc) as I play with others doing the same. I'm split on PvP. I like the concept of battling other players but not when it interferes with what I am trying to progress. Its just fustrating.

    For me the old mechanics just need to be updated with modern sensibilities. I dont mind tab target, a ton of skills, etc as long as its easy to use. The wasted time that was done due to limitations in the past should just be removed. Add aspects where I can interact with my cell phone if I can't get to a computer.

    +++
    I like what WoW did with Legion. Yes there are less skills but it makes the combat a bit more active (than just standing there firing rotations). While the mechanics are the same old, how they introduced them makes them feel fresh. At the very least I feel the urge to login to do things, and I haven't felt that (espeically in WoW) for a while.

    image
  • tihoatihoa Member UncommonPosts: 30
    I never felt like MMOs were actually ever "gone." The problem was that in around 2008 to around 2012 or so, there was an insane flood of MMOs from Asia that kind of drowned out everything. Korea has seen a massive rise in action style MMO games, but very few of them have made it west (the ones that do have taken like 3 or 4 years).

    I feel that the problem was that a lot of publishers fail to understand what makes an MMO enjoyable. They do stupid things like make RNG a massive part of the game (often in the form of item mall to the point where people literally have to gamble money). They add fatigue/stamina items to gate progress in games. They fail to establish a decent end game with most of the game about being grind with nothing to do but farm for equipment once a week. Then, when people ask them why their MMO isn't succeeding as well as it should be, they do stupid things like blame the players or just say they don't know and feign ignorance.
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