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Five Things MMO Gamers Should Stop Complaining About - The List at MMORPG.com

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  • AndersweltAnderswelt Member UncommonPosts: 23
    I say NO! i will not accept P2W and gambling crap that's just bullshit, i rather stop playing MMOs and any other genre using shady tactics like that altogether.
  • xeraxxerax Member UncommonPosts: 74
    In general there are three reasons people stop complaining about something:

    1) They are satisfied.
    2) They have given up, They don't care enough to complain any more.
    3) They are plotting violence against you.

    Being as we are talking MMOs I think we can rule out number 3. But i view this article as likely to push more people towards 2 than 1. It isn't very helpful and not very balanced journalism, I don't see many articles slamming big companies for exploitative revenue raising schemes. So when you come up with something like this it makes it look like your in their pocket.
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098

    #1: I totally agree that localization is not censorship, but you are actually arguing that localization is a form of censorship, or at least that it is ok to censor games when localizing.

    It is mostly not such a big issue in games, but the line of argument you are taking is pretty dangerous when applied to other media- news, some books / films, etc.

    I think it is good to complain about censorship on the pretence of localization, if only because people's reaction to localization will probably change/impact how future games are localized. There is no need to go crazy about it though, unless the censorship is extreme.

    ....
  • MegaMouseGWMegaMouseGW Member UncommonPosts: 25
    My problem with MMO's today are the Elitist scum that rush to the end without even reading the storyline at all then do 2 things to make it harder for others who want to enjoy themselves. First thing they do is put unrealistic requirements to run instances. How can someone know the mechanics of an instance if the instance was just put into the game on its first day there?? Not everyone can play 24/7 or even play the games original version. Second the elitists complain they have nothing to do. Well duh you idiots, you did it to yourself. Life is a journey that you take your time enjoying. Game makers do not want us to just rush to do everything in one day, they want us to enjoy the road to the end. It is all about watching your environment and reading the story, or you never know why you just spanked that boss.
    Most games put numbers on items which is again unfair to those that cannot get the item, or have not got the time t farm for it like the elitists. Something else that peeves me is soul-bound items. A lot of games are going this way, you want to farm for items but you hate to see the dreaded "cannot be traded" or "soul-bound" tags on them. Pretty much wasting your time in attempting to make enough gold to upgrade your own equipment. I can understand that some companies have done this to combat the bots but they still find ways to make the gold they sell.
  • Kevan_fKevan_f Member UncommonPosts: 65
    no p2w in pve games? are you serious?
    win is what you feel as a win, and in pve is definitely doing hardest content/ acquiring better gear.

    If paying real money somehow gives an advantage and not just cosmetic, it's p2w.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    xerax said:
    In general there are three reasons people stop complaining about something:

    1) They are satisfied.
    2) They have given up, They don't care enough to complain any more.
    3) They are plotting violence against you.

    Being as we are talking MMOs I think we can rule out number 3. But i view this article as likely to push more people towards 2 than 1. It isn't very helpful and not very balanced journalism, I don't see many articles slamming big companies for exploitative revenue raising schemes. So when you come up with something like this it makes it look like your in their pocket.
    #2 above is a way of life for many, probably for most. There's no question that there's more contentment in not sweating the small stuff. The trick is in knowing what's small and what isn't and that your own "small" may be "big" for others.

    Some here use "it's only games" selectively as their trump card when they don't care enough about something to continue discussing it. But these same people seem to forget that they said this about something that didn't interest them, when they write passionately or obsessively about some other aspect of gaming that does.

    It is indeed only gaming... a pastime, a hobby for the affluent... yet here we are in a gaming forum discussing games.

    An example... there are some in this thread that are in agreement with Bill and dismissive about those who do care about those things Bill doesn't care enough about to deem worthy of complaint. Yet I've seen these very same people write passionately about other aspects of gaming that some here don't consider worthy of discussion... "women in gaming" would be a perfect example of that.

    Thing is... objectively trivial as any gaming discussion is when viewed in the context of real world problems, when we're here and when we're talking about this, we do care. We just care selectively.

    Ignoring that we all have our individual different passions related to gaming and attempting to preemptively dismiss some of those as trivial and not worthy of concern is just a sophisticated and hypocritical troll.

    If nothing bothers you, well... whatever gets you through the night. But at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that you're deliberately ignoring things that do matter to others in order to craft your happy little place. Shit, we all do that more or less. Just don't get evangelical about it.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • MountainslideMountainslide Member UncommonPosts: 6
    Kewl 8 pages of people flipping out. I love Monday drama :awesome:
  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,401
    Except for lockboxes, which I find are course for a lesser gaming experience, I have to agree with the OP.
  • g0m0rrahg0m0rrah Member UncommonPosts: 325

    TimEisen said:

    You forgot to add "claiming all reporters are shills on the payroll of giant evil company X". If writers wanted big $$$ they would not cover uber niche games like MMORPGs.



    I would say that most so called journalists are shills. People for some reason think that game journalism and the gaming industry are somehow separate from the real world. Watch fox news or cnn for an hour and yup, shills. Journalism is pay 2 play. Pay me by selling me or I deny you access. So yea, shills everywhere.
  • JK_IndustriesJK_Industries Member CommonPosts: 1
    I'm only a new gamer here but I don't complain about games in MMO.
  • Alber_gamerAlber_gamer Member UncommonPosts: 588
    I think one day we should make a "Top 5 MMORPG top X lists that were utterly wrong and should have never seen the light of day". This one would be up there somewhere.

    My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  • KickaxeKickaxe Member UncommonPosts: 174
    I'm sure that the managing editor of this good site cannot be altogether surprised that we wonder at his aligning himself with the fiscal interests of triple-A developers and publishers while at the same time suggesting a remarkable, given the nature of his enterprise, suppression of critical opinion regarding game monetization.

    That is not to say that even for a minute do I believe he or any of the other staff at MMORPG.com accepts money in exchange for their good opinion. But I do wonder if he has allowed himself by conducting working relationships with game companies and their representatives to be too sympathetic to their interests and as a result lost some of his will to advocate sufficiently for the welfare of gamers.

    Rob opened with this in the companion article to this current piece, which I think gives some insight into the psychology that went into the two articles:

    Earlier today Bill started writing a list about five things that we MMO gamers should stop whining about.  It comes out next week, and really a lot of them are very good. That said, we (the staff here) all agreed that we should start off with five things we should all feel perfectly safe kvetching about. No one is saying you shouldn’t have anything to complain about. It’s perfectly reasonable to have a rational discourse on things that upset you. Don’t reduce yourself down to name calling, mudslinging, or down right attacking the people or things that you don’t agree with, is all. If you do people just tune you out and you will more than likely be ignored. With that said here are my own personal five things that you should be actively engaged against in the MMO genre.

    What we got was one article with five 'perfectly safe' complainable items--antiquated monetization models of little concern to triple-A developers, and small money indy developer issues like early access and kickstarter problems--and another article establishing out-of-bounds and apparently dead horse items that are nonetheless well within the boundaries of many of this site's posters' criticisms (I do actually agree with all those points that are not specifically monetization issues in the article).

    I stand with you guys against the type of vulgar insulting rhetoric often levied against you. I hate that pretty much anybody has to absorb venomous negativity online, as so many do. But Bill's article as well as some of the interactions in this thread have left me feeling like you may not be anywhere near being on our side as gamers. That's just my feeling from reading what you've presented to us here, and I know it may not count for much, but I think I read the piece fairly and am justified in my belief.
  • VolnusVolnus Member UncommonPosts: 40
    Is it me or has anyone else noticed that everyone complaining about this article sounds like a spoiled brat?
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Volnus said:
    Is it me or has anyone else noticed that everyone complaining about this article sounds like a spoiled brat?
    Yeah it's you.

    OTOH, I don't think that everyone putting in their one liners critical of those who are critical of the article are shallow ignoramouses or shills... just some of them.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • zenomexzenomex Member UncommonPosts: 242
    Nothing more to add here other than the obvious link between MMORPG games becoming less and less interesting and people complaining more and more. Do people complain more because the games are becoming less interesting? Or are the games becoming less and less interesting because people are complaining more? I myself think the first one is a much, much more logical assumption so that's what I'll do.

    I too think people complain very easily but most of the people complaining are ones that have been dishing out a ton of cash only after realizing how stupid it was. And even though it's their fault, it's not like they are the only ones to blame. Marketing always designs the game around customers like you said yourself. And I don't think it's ethically correct to have horrible gambling issues in your cash shop.

    My best example that comes to mind right now is RaiderZ. It had a loot box with some cool-looking horse (which was a white version of the horse that was pre-beta "exclusive") and they didn't say what the odds were of getting the mount... so then a bunch of hackers came that duped the cash shop and realized it was roughly 0.3% chance of getting the mount.

    It's true, it's all about how they implement it. But Bill here is implying we should never complain and I think there are more games being a cash-grab than games that aren't. And if that's true, Bill really shouldn't write this article in my opinion.

    And Bill, are you telling yourself you wrote this column to trigger the people u were talking about? Trying to differentiate yourself from other people that are still similar to you? Dude you're just as narrow-minded as the people ur talking about, heck I even think ur worse.

    Bill completely ignores a ton of very sharp arguments yet you decide to react to the shitty ones.. whatever makes you look good, right?
  • 209vaughn209vaughn Member UncommonPosts: 58
    I pretty much agree with the author. Although I think it should be "Dont complain AS MUCH about these things". Some of them are valid complains, but so many people get so angry over "pay to win" for example. Like is it really that big of deal? And besides what is "winning" anyway?
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,193
    Kickaxe said:
    I'm sure that the managing editor of this good site cannot be altogether surprised that we wonder at his aligning himself with the fiscal interests of triple-A developers and publishers while at the same time suggesting a remarkable, given the nature of his enterprise, suppression of critical opinion regarding game monetization.

    But Bill's article as well as some of the interactions in this thread have left me feeling like you may not be anywhere near being on our side as gamers.
    While you wrote a great post, I don't necessarily agree that the slant is "on the side of AAA developers".

    I agree with his points and I don't work in the game industry. I bet there are others who agree with it as well who also don't work in the game industry.

    I don't see there being a "developer side" and a "gamer side" as I'm sure there are developers who don't like where the genre has gone (developers are gamers as well, why else would they work in such a lousy industry) and there are players who can't get on board with some of the views that seem to crop up on game forums.


    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

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  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    edited August 2016
    Good article @BillMurphy. Spot on.

    Children whine. Adults do not whine. If someone is an adult and whining, then they are mentally immature and should be treated as a child. A time-out sounds like a good course of action. May I suggest limited posting for whiners and an overlay like the jail bars, except make it a bonnet, diaper and baby bottle.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Good article @BillMurphy. Spot on.

    Children whine. Adults do not whine. If someone is an adult and whining, then they are mentally immature and should be treated as a child. A time-out sounds like a good course of action. May I suggest limited posting for whiners and an overlay like the jail bars, except make it a bonnet, diaper and baby bottle.
    Were you just whining about whiners? But I thought... never mind.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • KickaxeKickaxe Member UncommonPosts: 174
    edited August 2016
    Sovrath said:
    Kickaxe said:
    I'm sure that the managing editor of this good site cannot be altogether surprised that we wonder at his aligning himself with the fiscal interests of triple-A developers and publishers while at the same time suggesting a remarkable, given the nature of his enterprise, suppression of critical opinion regarding game monetization.

    But Bill's article as well as some of the interactions in this thread have left me feeling like you may not be anywhere near being on our side as gamers.
    While you wrote a great post, I don't necessarily agree that the slant is "on the side of AAA developers".

    I agree with his points and I don't work in the game industry. I bet there are others who agree with it as well who also don't work in the game industry.

    I don't see there being a "developer side" and a "gamer side" as I'm sure there are developers who don't like where the genre has gone (developers are gamers as well, why else would they work in such a lousy industry) and there are players who can't get on board with some of the views that seem to crop up on game forums.


    Sure, Sovrath, I can appreciate your point of view, and you make some great points that I absolutely agree with (gamer needn't be the antithesis of game developer, iow). I wasn't trying to discount anybody's opinion on these issues, not even Bill's--but rather the particular tone and language Bill applied in his argument. There's simply a big difference in you or any other fan of this site posting opinions, and Bill, managing editor of the site, posting his--especially when his explicit intention was to dismiss criticisms of game monetization, which I actually find quite insane given his job description here.

    I'm in danger of overstating my opinion, and I realize it begins to sound more like contempt when in fact I'm merely...how should I say it...strongly disappointed.  :)

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,193
    Kickaxe said:
    Sovrath said:
    Kickaxe said:
    I'm sure that the managing editor of this good site cannot be altogether surprised that we wonder at his aligning himself with the fiscal interests of triple-A developers and publishers while at the same time suggesting a remarkable, given the nature of his enterprise, suppression of critical opinion regarding game monetization.

    But Bill's article as well as some of the interactions in this thread have left me feeling like you may not be anywhere near being on our side as gamers.
    While you wrote a great post, I don't necessarily agree that the slant is "on the side of AAA developers".

    I agree with his points and I don't work in the game industry. I bet there are others who agree with it as well who also don't work in the game industry.

    I don't see there being a "developer side" and a "gamer side" as I'm sure there are developers who don't like where the genre has gone (developers are gamers as well, why else would they work in such a lousy industry) and there are players who can't get on board with some of the views that seem to crop up on game forums.


    Sure, Sovrath, I can appreciate your point of view, and you make some great points that I absolutely agree with (gamer needn't be the antithesis of game developer, iow). I wasn't trying to discount anybody's opinion on these issues, not even Bill's--but rather the particular tone and language Bill applied in his argument. There's simply a big difference in you or any other fan of this site posting opinions, and Bill, managing editor of the site, posting his--especially when his explicit intention was to dismiss criticisms of game monetization, which I actually find quite insane given his job description here.

    I'm in danger of overstating my opinion, and I realize it begins to sound more like contempt when in fact I'm merely...how should I say it...strongly disappointed.  :)

    No worries I absolutely didn't get that you were trying to discount anything, your post was good and had merit.
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • zenomexzenomex Member UncommonPosts: 242
    Good article @BillMurphy. Spot on.

    Children whine. Adults do not whine. If someone is an adult and whining, then they are mentally immature and should be treated as a child. A time-out sounds like a good course of action. May I suggest limited posting for whiners and an overlay like the jail bars, except make it a bonnet, diaper and baby bottle.
    yet you are whining about people who whine.. calling people you dislike children, lol. so ur that type of guy?
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,856
    This genre has been on a down slide for years now. MMORPG.COM had to change to MMO / RPG .com because MMORPGs weren't enough to sustain this site on their own, so this site expanded it's coverage to incorporate the overlapping genres. Now we are in a period of time where Western game developers aren't touching this genre at all, where all we have to look forward to are ports from other markets or indie developers who can sell dreams but not finished games. So now we shouldn't talk about why that is? Is that what I am seeing in this thread? You guys are shooting yourself in the foot with crap like this.



  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Awesome article, agree on all points...!

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DeasantDeasant Member UncommonPosts: 198
    edited August 2016
    SBFord said:
    Deasant said:
    Problem in a nutshell:

    1) Then it became all about that business $. Now the website is ran by advertising dollars.

    2) Not by the consumers of the website. mmorpg.com writers are no longer writing for us, the consumers 
    As to these particular points:

    1) AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......*takes deep breath*.....AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....tell that to my bank account. ;)

    2) Over the years we've talked with the "consumers" about putting up a pay gate, subscription etc. That is met by approval from a small number of people, but many more who say to the effect of, "If we have to PAY (i.e. making them consumers!), then we'll go elsewhere!"

    It's just amazing how an article that is one man's opinion on what he believes are some widespread issues with a loud and boisterous segment of gamers is now suddenly "in the pay of publishers"? An astonishing reach.

    I guess you missed Rob's article on "Things Players SHOULD Complain About" that rebutts some of Bill's points? Here's the link.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/11104/Five-Things-MMO-Gamers-Should-Complain-About.html
    @SBFord
     
    Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate that you did not try to hide the facts that I put forth. That your website's customer is/are game publishers. Your website's consumers are us, the readers. Us, the consumer, are not the driving motive behind what you produce for us to consume. Your customers are.
    Post edited by Deasant on
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