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Five Things MMO Gamers Should Stop Complaining About - The List at MMORPG.com

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  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    SBFord said:

    A bit over dramatic, don't you think? I may not agree on all points, but I love the spirited conversation that those with mature viewpoints can hold. :) I wanted Bill to add "stop complaining about games you don't like. If you don't like them, move on and keep your trap shut". But...that could fuel enough volumes to put Encyclopedia Britannica to shame. ;)
    Imagine if the founding fathers of the US just decided to "move on and keep their trap shut" back 200+ years ago when England imposed the tea tax... 

    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327

    People complain because there is a passion, concern and there is love.  The greater the passion, concern or love, the greater the complaint.  We should worry more when the complaining stops.  By then it will already have been much too late.  For the passion, concern and love is gone, and the only alternative left is to quietly move on.  
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,077
    Talonsin said:
    SBFord said:

    A bit over dramatic, don't you think? I may not agree on all points, but I love the spirited conversation that those with mature viewpoints can hold. :) I wanted Bill to add "stop complaining about games you don't like. If you don't like them, move on and keep your trap shut". But...that could fuel enough volumes to put Encyclopedia Britannica to shame. ;)
    Imagine if the founding fathers of the US just decided to "move on and keep their trap shut" back 200+ years ago when England imposed the tea tax... 

    This is a private forum and yes they are entitled to moderate it as they think fit.

  • HarikenHariken Member RarePosts: 2,324

    Spiider said:

    You are wrong on all accounts more or less. Gamers that pay for the games have 100% right to moan all they want about anything they feel like. If its f2p this is somewhat limited but if there is a cash shop of any kind moaning goes to 100% again.



    You seem to believe that gamers are special kind of humans. Wrong again. Gamers are just like everyone else, selfish, spoiled, ignorant (by choice) and arrogant (out of fear). Of course they will complain.



    I so agree with this. MMO'S are played by humans and most of them are jerks. The reason a game like swtor works is it plays like a singleplayer game. You can preach all you want about how people should act but it will never happen today. I started playing mmo's back in 99 and yeah it was really different back them. MMO'S weren't mainstream games and only computer geeks played them. It shocked you if you ran into a jerk. Today you expect it. Telling people to behave in a certain way is going to get you cursed at in mmo's.
  • ShazPurShazPur Member UncommonPosts: 47
    I agree with the Localization point and the Sandbox vs Themepark points, but not with the rest.

    Lockboxes are evil, and a way to capitalize on people with an addictive personality. You wont see me play one unless you somehow can craft or find keys to them in game in which case they become just another matter of resource management.

    About PvE players, I enjoy playing PvE games myself, but I also enjoy PvP games. I really dislike ganes that try to be both. Its extremely annoying to play games with PvP focus and find people complain in game about the very foundation of the game you are playing. Perhaps the problem isn't with the game but with the player who should have choosen another game.

    What makes a good PvP game and a good PvE game are usually mutually exclusive and I can't really find a single example of a game that has been able to do both successfully. If you don't like PvP, play a game that is designed not to be a PvP-game.

    And everything where you can pay for in game advancement is PTW. Its not necessartily bad, but still PTW. Any computer program that doesn't involve a sense of winning and losing has lost the right to refer to itself as a game.
  • FelixMajorFelixMajor Member RarePosts: 854
    I still like the saying, "Less QQ, more pew pew".

    Play the games for past time enjoyment, and if you are not enjoying the time spent, move on.

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • miyosamiyosa Member UncommonPosts: 3
    edited August 2016
    My 1st comment in years! weee! at any rate I both agree and disagree.


    5.) THE RANDOM REWARD LOCKBOX

    Lock boxes being ok is subjective. That is just truth. It isn't just about what YOU find ok to sell since you aren't everyone. If a game puts a costume or some item that can only be obtained from that box instead of flat out being able to buy then an issue can arise. Why should someone not complain when what they really wanted is put behind an RNG box meant to bleed you dry? Even more so if a bunch of other stuff is simply purchasable outright without the box. It is never an issue until that issue effects you I suppose. But I would say not ALL lockboxes are bad. Also add to this that at what point do they start putting more and more behind the boxes until it gets worse.

    4.) CAREBEARS AND NOOBS

    Can't disagree at all. People tend to forget that everyone was new at some point. I mean even if the newer people annoy, help out. Don't be a detriment to growth.

    3.) NOT EVERYTHING IS PAY TO WIN

    Agree with this as well. The saying has been abused and misused for the longest for any and every thing. Doubt a lot of people know it's actual meaning. HOWEVER! pay to progress can be seen as p2w depending on how much progress you are getting. What's the big difference from being able to buy a weapon from a cash shop outright vs being able to buy all the parts, ingredients and money to build it. Steps. I am not saying games do exactly this but instant progress and progress that adds a few more steps isn't all that different. Also I can't agree with that caption about BDO. Silver is power. The moment you can swipe for more it becomes p2w. Doesn't make a difference if it makes no sense to do so. Lot of things in life make no sense and people do it. Even more so when you realize the amount people spend on non performance effecting things. Add to this the owpvp with none equalized gear (unless this was changed), game being completely gear dependent and yea. It is p2w. Whether it is deal breakingly bad would depend upon the person.

    2.) SANDBOX VERSUS THEMEPARK

    No real comment. Don't care about it, just play what I enjoy.

    1.) LOCALIZATION IS NOT CENSORSHIP

    Another point of "not all". Some localization is censorship. Changing it for the region doesn't change that. What you probably have an issue with is how big of an issue people make about it. Your examples for this don't even hold up either. A definition of Censorship is the suppression of free speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions. Don't know about you but the examples given fall under this. Regardless of the reasons you change it, you still changed it. As with the p2w and boxes, how big of a fuss it brings depends on the person.
  • KalebGraysonKalebGrayson Member RarePosts: 430


    Oh boy, someone tries to write a reasonable article about a universal truth(people complaining). Article becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as people do nothing but complain.



    Good article, but you're trying to be reasonable with a people who are wholly incapable of being reasonable.



    Hit the nail on the head with this one. I learned this years ago...and that's why you get these outlandish responses to the article. By the way, I agree with you on your point Bill. Well done.
  • HerithiusHerithius Member UncommonPosts: 178
    I liked this post. The amount of things that drive people to Internet rage is absurd.
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,584
    5. Totally disagree with you. These damned things are hurting the very structure and development plan of these types of games. That is a very bad thing. They add nothing in the way of entertainment to a game, and in fact help to put an actual roadblock in the way of entertainment in almost every game they are in. First off they only exist in the hope to elicit a Pavlovian response in a companies customers in the hope they can deceptively get a person to spend more money than they otherwise would have done. And to help make this conditioning easier they deliberately remove or lessen important parts of the game, inventory space, crafting material scarcity, much longer grind to accomplish attaining items through actual game play, if they are available that way at all, etc, to steer players towards this bullshit feature. It always astonishes me to see MMO consumers accept this sort of behavior when they wouldn't put up with it in any other aspect of day to day consumerism. Well except for the hideously inflated prices of concession stand snacks at any cinema.

    4. Yep and when it isn't PVP vs PVE camps slagging each other off, and instead PVE vs PVE we see the terms Scrub, Tryhard, or Elitist asshole. Competition tends to foster rivalry and sometimes contempt. Trying to foist this behavior off as only a PVP vs PVE issue is disingenuous. And I feel is something people should definitely complain about because its moronic behavior regardless of what camp you happen to be in.

    3. Of course not everything is pay to win. However this anger and apprehension to the contrary comes from the zeitgeist of seeing MMO companies lock more and more content behind a grind or paywall, if they bother to make these achievements available through actual game play at all. I feel its very dangerous to disassociate the symptom from the cause. Sure some people take the bitching way too far, but that doesn't mean their fears have no basis in fact. And while I understand companies are in business to make money, there is a distinct difference between making a profit and just outright underhanded profiteering.

    2. The entire sandbox v themepark I agree is a very foolish and overused argument due the fact no single individual seems to be able to agree on exactly what defines those terms. However certain concrete MMO features do exist that people can argue intelligently about so I would be very careful discounting any argument over this simple dislike of people not agreeing on a definition. For example? I enjoy pub quizzes, sure they may have rules and structure, but they can also throw some serious curve balls at you in the case of esoteric knowledge. Now, how fun would that pub quiz be if they used not just the same subjects every time, but the exact same questions? That in a nutshell is the reason why the "on rails themepark vs free to do as one likes" argument exists in the first place.

    1. Dear fucking god man, so they aren't censoring the game when they localize, just, ya know, removing or sanitizing any content deemed to be indecent by a minority, or in some cases a majority, of busybody assholes ... well gee Wally that right there sure as fuck seems to fit the text book definition of censorship to me. Just because it happens to follow laws and social mores in a particular country, proscribed, verboten, forbidden, apostate, taboo, call it what you will, it still very much is censorship.



    "People worry about kids playing with guns, or watching violent videos...
    That some sort of culture of violence will take them over.
    Nobody worries about kids listening to thousands - literally, thousands of songs
    About heartbreak, rejection...pain, misery and loss. Did I listen to pop music
    Because I was miserable... or was I miserable because I listened to pop music?"

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,560
    Talonsin said:
    SBFord said:

    A bit over dramatic, don't you think? I may not agree on all points, but I love the spirited conversation that those with mature viewpoints can hold. :) I wanted Bill to add "stop complaining about games you don't like. If you don't like them, move on and keep your trap shut". But...that could fuel enough volumes to put Encyclopedia Britannica to shame. ;)
    Imagine if the founding fathers of the US just decided to "move on and keep their trap shut" back 200+ years ago when England imposed the tea tax... 

    Did... did you just compare MMORPG arguments to a revolution from over 200 years ago? Because, I'm thinking ONE of us might need to re-prioritize their battles. 

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,528
    Talonsin said:
    SBFord said:

    A bit over dramatic, don't you think? I may not agree on all points, but I love the spirited conversation that those with mature viewpoints can hold. :) I wanted Bill to add "stop complaining about games you don't like. If you don't like them, move on and keep your trap shut". But...that could fuel enough volumes to put Encyclopedia Britannica to shame. ;)
    Imagine if the founding fathers of the US just decided to "move on and keep their trap shut" back 200+ years ago when England imposed the tea tax... 

    Did... did you just compare MMORPG arguments to a revolution from over 200 years ago? Because, I'm thinking ONE of us might need to re-prioritize their battles. 
    Back in the day, on Slashdot, there was a poster called "BadAnalogyGuy". I think he's got followers here. :chuffed:
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

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  • Mighty_PlatypusMighty_Platypus Member UncommonPosts: 100

    DMKano said:

    I agree with all points Bill.



    I think for me it's pretty simple when it comed to video game complants - ask yourself "is this within my realm of control" before complaining?



    If it's a game feature or an idea for doing something better - feedback to devs is the way to go.



    If it's something that is entirely outside of my control - such as how pricing scheme is setup for a game - that's none of my business, if I don't like it I simply don't have to buy or play.



    Taking a perspective where gamers think they have a right to dictate how companies sell their products is just a big pet peeve of mine.



    Entertainers can charge whatever they want for their products, a Vegas show that is $500, it's their right to ask for that price.



    So can game companies - it's their right to set pricing for their product.



    I mean if you don't want to pay for entertainment - DON'T, just move on, but please drop the pretense that somehow you should be dictating pricing models to game companies.

    Finally video games are not a human right, nobody is entitled to play "fair to all online video games".

    When a video game sells Rng lootbox it's not a Geneva convention violation 



    Better watch out DK, you are using logic here. The fact of the matter is gamers do have a say. Just don't play or pay. If companies stop making money off from something they will stop making it. As you said Bill has hit a lot on the head with this article. This generation that feels entitled AF leaks into all parts of life, especially gaming. One game offered FTP one time, and then people wanted more free. The fact is nothing is free, and these companies need to make money somehow.

    Here's some advice to all of you out there. If you see a problem, don't bitch about the problem. COme up with a solution and share it. In the case of these games, making everything free is not the right answer. Also B2P will not allow for a company to keep game servers open for extended periods of time. There is a need for a renewable income source. So, figure that out.

    Also, if you have some great idea as to how an MMOG should be made, that will make everyone happy, and be the most iconic piece of software ever released then go make it. Go experience the time, cost, and headache it is to create a game... then go release it for free, and then don't ask for any compensation in anyway shape of form. Just let the people play.

    The fact is if your time is spent complaining about something instead of doing something productive, how about change what you are doing.
  • GladDogGladDog Member RarePosts: 967
    SBFord said:

    Scellow said:

    Again, another corrupted journalist, time to say goodbye to this website, the mmo genre is dead



    A bit over dramatic, don't you think? I may not agree on all points, but I love the spirited conversation that those with mature viewpoints can hold. :) I wanted Bill to add "stop complaining about games you don't like. If you don't like them, move on and keep your trap shut". But...that could fuel enough volumes to put Encyclopedia Britannica to shame. ;)
    Really though I want people to let us know if a game is bad...If they remain quiet about it then alot of us others are going to get burned (like No Mans Sky).......This should be a site about various opinions (good and bad) of games so we can get a handle on whether or not we want to play a certain MMO.
    I agree.  If you had a bad experience with a game, you should let others know, even possibly doing a review.  We all appreciate different points of view.  But make it more than just 'THIS GAME SUXS!!'  Why don't you like it?  That is what I want to know.  

    And if you don't like the combat, tell me why.  'This combat sux' says nothing to me.  'The melee combat in this game is very pedestrian, several steps below the terrific combat animations and effects of ranged combat.'  That gives me a lot to consider, since I prefer melee combat in most games.

    Once you have made your opinion known a few times to the point that nobody doubts what you think, it is probably time to let it go and find a game you do like.  Or even to find another game to skewer a few times.


    The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!


  • meonthissitemeonthissite Member UncommonPosts: 917
    #1: Absolutely not. Until they have a better system, we should continue complaining about the lockbox lottery that has worse odds that any real life ticket. Especially when those items are tied to progression.

    #3: Absolutely not. If there are noncosmetic items that can only be achieved by buying them in any game title and said items can at all even in the tiniest bit be connected to either skill or gear progression, it means it's pay to win. It's giving an unfair advantage to people who spend money like crazy and it's also something that's detrimental to the life of the game, case in point, Archeage.

    The rest of that is absolutely true. I've seen the best success however for sandbox vs themepark in games that are a bit of both. Sandbox seems to have too much freedom and no direction and themeparks are so on rails that it tends to get boring. The best games I've played over the years that have caught my attention for long periods of time have been those that incorporate both.
  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048
    Location (outside obviously language translations, though you could still consider it that if the original language isn't available) IS censorship. You can argue whether its necessarily a bad thing sure but you are changing the original product from what it was like before. Sure, I for one dislike seeing loli butts or seeing skin show off but still, if its changed to hide that it is censoring the original game. Personally for me unless some laws force a certain action (which I see as wrong but that's another topic) it would be nice if it was instead an OPTION and not forced upon the user, specially if the changes were made not for the audience but for outside voices who have absolutely no interest in the game themselves.

    I can see the other points being opinions, but to claim changing something from its original intended final product, you ARE censoring it no matter if you think you can justify it. 
  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 3,631
    MMORPG.com tells people to stop complaining about the loot boxes (nr. 5), even though they totally kill immersion and reduce the MMORPGs into cheap games.

    Meanwhile, Kano comes to an MMORPG forum and tells MMORPG fans yet again to stop complaining about mechanisms that negatively influence their hobby because it is out of their control and it generates more profits for the companies. Seriously, if metal was being turned into disco, would you be coming to metal forums telling the people there the same thing? 


    Ok, so I guess we should just sit here and quietly watch how our hobby gets ruined.

    What is the next article going to suggest, that kids should start bringing cash to D&D sessions? 






  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,970


    What is the next article going to suggest, that kids should start bringing cash to D&D sessions? 






    If they would it certainly would be a huge help. B)



  • ErevusErevus Member UncommonPosts: 94
    Funny but what i read from that wall text was :

    5.The random reward lock box = Stop whining about a Korean Model MMO and buy it.
    4.Carebears and noobs = Pls dont shoot the customers.
    3.Not everything is pay to win = BDO is not a P2W / keep the money coming.
    2.Sandbox VS Themepark = That's all we can offer. Next pls.
    1.Localization is not sensorship = OK if you really dont like the Korean model we'll add some spices.
    "We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing"

    Benjamin Franklin
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,159
    I agree localization adapts its media to the region its trying to appeal, that doesn't change the fact it still contains censorship.

    So your point on that is wrong. Call it whatever you want, removing/blocking offensive content is still censorship.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Spiider said:
    You are wrong on all accounts more or less. Gamers that pay for the games have 100% right to moan all they want about anything they feel like. If its f2p this is somewhat limited but if there is a cash shop of any kind moaning goes to 100% again.

    You seem to believe that gamers are special kind of humans. Wrong again. Gamers are just like everyone else, selfish, spoiled, ignorant (by choice) and arrogant (out of fear). Of course they will complain.

    They are software users which makes them lusers.  Any software engineer should know to ignore their prattling.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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  • JMulla2016JMulla2016 Member UncommonPosts: 12
    I am a relative newcomer when it comes discussing MMORPGs, although I've been playing them for quite some time.

    The article is on point for the most part. The truth is that the games are becoming more of a moneymaker solely rather than being an artistic platform or entertainment. There's too many "pay-for-this" moments in MMORPGs today that take away the focus from important parts that truly make the game.

    As for the censorship - it's been present for decades, long before video games themselves. I'm not for it, but I understand it.
  • RobbgobbRobbgobb Member UncommonPosts: 659
    I couldn't finish the comments all the way through. The only thing I complain about every time I see it is locked boxes. Just give me a button that I never have any drop for me. I don't care about what it does for the game except for make me made that I get 20 boxes while farming for one thing. I would not even think about the boxes if I had a little check box that was to have no locked boxes spawn for me.

    I don't care about the other things that much but it will never stop me from complaining. Of course there has only been 3 or 4 games that I left and never came back to because of what they were doing. I generally complain a couple of times to make sure I let my opinion (which is not better or worse than any others in my way of thinking) be known then go on with game or take a break from it and go play something else.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,528
    Aori said:
    I agree localization adapts its media to the region its trying to appeal, that doesn't change the fact it still contains censorship.

    So your point on that is wrong. Call it whatever you want, removing/blocking offensive content is still censorship.
    There are two kinds of censorship. Imposed censorship by an authority and self-censorship for personal reasons.

    We all use self-censorship all the time. I know I do here, especially when I see the lack of thought put into some "arguments". I can't tell someone they're a moronic thoughtless idiot even if what they write proves it. I censor myself for the sake of civility so our discussions can be somewhat positive and productive.

    Businesses use self-censorship when they want to appeal to a target demographic. They say, phrase, and frame what they want to sell in a way that appeals to their customers and doesn't offend them. Sometimes they change they products to appeal to a target demographic.

    The other kind of censorship is imposed by authorities. The editing and changing is not an option and is not defined or dictated by the creator or communicator. How things are censored isn't up for discussion either.

    In one the source chooses to censor for their own benefit. In the second they are being given an edict to be followed or be penalized if not.

    These games coming to the west aren't being censored by an outside source. They're being censored so they can make more money. Typically when we refer to censorship, we're talking about the second kind imposed on us, unless noted otherwise, without choice.
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  • zanfirezanfire Member UncommonPosts: 951
    Sovrath said:


    What is the next article going to suggest, that kids should start bringing cash to D&D sessions? 






    If they would it certainly would be a huge help. B)
    That Mountain Dew Money has to come from somewhere.
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