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How Snail Games Kept Hope Alive for 12 Long Years

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  • HytekHytek Member UncommonPosts: 153
    Website www.darkandlight.com is down and no news on SnailGames website about this either. They're off to a good start already! *cough*

    I have found in my lifetime, that the beauty of hating stupid people is, that it crosses all racial boundaries.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,110
    Pesky said:
    I was really interested in this game until I saw it uses 'Action Combat'. I'm an old fart. I loathe action combat! I just don't have the reflexes for it.

    Anyway, I'll keep an eye on it. Maybe there'll be lots of other things to do, so people who can't handle action combat can avoid having to fight stuff.
    Good catch, hadn't noticed that, could be a reason for me to avoid it as well.

    Will have to see how its implemented.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • k61977k61977 Member EpicPosts: 1,527
    "Our plan right now is to offer two different server environments, one for FFA PvP, and one for non-PvP for players to choose from based on the way they want to play."

    Well this comment right here is enough to get me to try the game if they do push it out. A developer that actually realizes you can have open world feel without forcing PVP.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Kyleran said:
    Pesky said:
    I was really interested in this game until I saw it uses 'Action Combat'. I'm an old fart. I loathe action combat! I just don't have the reflexes for it.

    Anyway, I'll keep an eye on it. Maybe there'll be lots of other things to do, so people who can't handle action combat can avoid having to fight stuff.
    Good catch, hadn't noticed that, could be a reason for me to avoid it as well.

    Will have to see how its implemented.
    To level the playing field, I demand games have Old Fart servers.

    One must use Geritol and be capable of naming the Three Stooges (without an internet connection) before having access to these servers.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,110
    laserit said:
    Kyleran said:
    Pesky said:
    I was really interested in this game until I saw it uses 'Action Combat'. I'm an old fart. I loathe action combat! I just don't have the reflexes for it.

    Anyway, I'll keep an eye on it. Maybe there'll be lots of other things to do, so people who can't handle action combat can avoid having to fight stuff.
    Good catch, hadn't noticed that, could be a reason for me to avoid it as well.

    Will have to see how its implemented.
    To level the playing field, I demand games have Old Fart servers.

    One must use Geritol and be capable of naming the Three Stooges (without an internet connection) before having access to these servers.
    They also need to know there were 4 Stooges. (can't forget Shemp)

    I find I can manage action combat for PVE activities, which tended to be more forgiving in TERA or ESO, so if I stick with the PVE server I should be fine.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Kyleran said:
    laserit said:
    Kyleran said:
    Pesky said:
    I was really interested in this game until I saw it uses 'Action Combat'. I'm an old fart. I loathe action combat! I just don't have the reflexes for it.

    Anyway, I'll keep an eye on it. Maybe there'll be lots of other things to do, so people who can't handle action combat can avoid having to fight stuff.
    Good catch, hadn't noticed that, could be a reason for me to avoid it as well.

    Will have to see how its implemented.
    To level the playing field, I demand games have Old Fart servers.

    One must use Geritol and be capable of naming the Three Stooges (without an internet connection) before having access to these servers.
    They also need to know there were 4 Stooges. (can't forget Shemp)

    I find I can manage action combat for PVE activities, which tended to be more forgiving in TERA or ESO, so if I stick with the PVE server I should be fine.
    Damn...

    I forgot all about Shemp

    Loss of memory and forgetfulness should also be a qualification ;) 


    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311
    edited August 2016
    k61977 said:
    "Our plan right now is to offer two different server environments, one for FFA PvP, and one for non-PvP for players to choose from based on the way they want to play."

    Well this comment right here is enough to get me to try the game if they do push it out. A developer that actually realizes you can have open world feel without forcing PVP.
    the only problem with that is the size of the world. i remember beta back in the day with only one server and once you got out in the world it felt very empty.

    as long as people are okay with that then i think it will work but some, especially on a pvp server, may not like that. 
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    k61977 said:
    "Our plan right now is to offer two different server environments, one for FFA PvP, and one for non-PvP for players to choose from based on the way they want to play."

    Well this comment right here is enough to get me to try the game if they do push it out. A developer that actually realizes you can have open world feel without forcing PVP.
    Don't like forced PvP, good move on their part.  Of course PvP servers will be nearly empty now.  Even PvPers like to take a break once in awhile.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,480
    edited August 2016

    baphamet said:


    k61977 said:

    "Our plan right now is to offer two different server environments, one for FFA PvP, and one for non-PvP for players to choose from based on the way they want to play."



    Well this comment right here is enough to get me to try the game if they do push it out. A developer that actually realizes you can have open world feel without forcing PVP.


    the only problem with that is the size of the world. i remember beta back in the day with only one server and once you got out in the world it felt very empty.

    as long as people are okay with that then i think it will work but some, especially on a pvp server, may not like that. 



    The PVP players will have to like it lol. There will be no shared PVP/PVE server and good on them for realizing the shit those types of servers bring. I'm glad to see devs going back to the oldest style of server choice, Pantheon being another mmo doing the same. This game is not just being made for PVPers it's also being made for PVE players. PVPers don't like it then go play a total PVP game. Age Of Wushu 2 might be more your thing, a PVP mmo with PVE all on same server.




  • AnirethAnireth Member UncommonPosts: 940
    Wait, so Dark and Light was actually released back then? I thought it basically vanished in beta or something.

    And how did they keep hope alive for 12 long years? The last news about D&L before the recent announcement was in March 2011. Thats more than a 5 year gap. And before it was in May 2007. Almost 4 years. And the 2011 news was that Snail games had taken over. 

    And even if you discount that Snail games had nothing to do with it before 2011 (afaik), that would still be only 10 years since release. So 2002: game added. 2006: launch. 2007: Last news about this game. 2008: servers shut down. 2011: Snail games acquired it. 2016: Reboot.

    I admit i didn't follow it closely back then, and most is long forgotten again. But how you arrive at "Snail Games kept hope alive for 12 years" given these dates..even if you leave the Snail Games out, it's hard to arrive at *12* years. Beta launch or what? Thats a rather arbitrary date.

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    And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
    Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
    And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,480
    Anireth said:
    Wait, so Dark and Light was actually released back then? I thought it basically vanished in beta or something.

    And how did they keep hope alive for 12 long years? The last news about D&L before the recent announcement was in March 2011. Thats more than a 5 year gap. And before it was in May 2007. Almost 4 years. And the 2011 news was that Snail games had taken over. 

    And even if you discount that Snail games had nothing to do with it before 2011 (afaik), that would still be only 10 years since release. So 2002: game added. 2006: launch. 2007: Last news about this game. 2008: servers shut down. 2011: Snail games acquired it. 2016: Reboot.

    I admit i didn't follow it closely back then, and most is long forgotten again. But how you arrive at "Snail Games kept hope alive for 12 years" given these dates..even if you leave the Snail Games out, it's hard to arrive at *12* years. Beta launch or what? Thats a rather arbitrary date.
    Jesus did I you actually read anything about this new version? 

    1. It's not the same devs. 

    2. DnL did get out of beta and actually was f2p for 2 years. 

    Should I continue or are you going to use your own mind and look up what's going on now?

    Snail games acquired it before 2011 it was called Savage Horizon hence where I got my forum name from. 




  • CnameCname Member UncommonPosts: 211
    edited August 2016
    Anireth said:
    Wait, so Dark and Light was actually released back then? I thought it basically vanished in beta or something.

    And how did they keep hope alive for 12 long years? The last news about D&L before the recent announcement was in March 2011. Thats more than a 5 year gap. And before it was in May 2007. Almost 4 years. And the 2011 news was that Snail games had taken over. 

    And even if you discount that Snail games had nothing to do with it before 2011 (afaik), that would still be only 10 years since release. So 2002: game added. 2006: launch. 2007: Last news about this game. 2008: servers shut down. 2011: Snail games acquired it. 2016: Reboot.

    I admit i didn't follow it closely back then, and most is long forgotten again. But how you arrive at "Snail Games kept hope alive for 12 years" given these dates..even if you leave the Snail Games out, it's hard to arrive at *12* years. Beta launch or what? Thats a rather arbitrary date.
    Shi Hai, the founder of Snail games saw a demo of DnL for the first time at E3 2004 and was captivated.
    What he saw probably look something like this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tkVqwHRziw

    He successfully negotiated with the original French developers Farlan Entertainments to be the exclusive publisher of DnL for China with option to customized the game for China version in 2005.

    However, Farlan Entertainments became embroiled in legal problems in 2006 and Snail games even offered to help: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/101426/Farlan_Admits_Dark_and_Light_Problems_Offers_3_Months_Free.php

    In 2008, Snail games acquired all the rights of DnL from Farlan Entertainments.

    So one might think of DnL is a "memory of first love" for Shi Hai - why is he so compelled to finish it and why the name of "Dark and Light" past negative connections in the West will not dissuade Snail games.

    This is how the "12 years hope" come from.
    Is the original game worthy of love? It is his choice to make B)

    "A game is fun if it is learnable but not trivial" -- Togelius & Schmidhuber

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,480

    Hytek said:

    Website www.darkandlight.com is down and no news on SnailGames website about this either. They're off to a good start already! *cough*



    Lol, darkandlight.com is going to be down because it was Farlans website not snail games lmfao.

    The sites been down for two years.

    Some people really are thick but hey you keep on doing what you are doing.




  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311
    edited August 2016

    baphamet said:


    k61977 said:

    "Our plan right now is to offer two different server environments, one for FFA PvP, and one for non-PvP for players to choose from based on the way they want to play."



    Well this comment right here is enough to get me to try the game if they do push it out. A developer that actually realizes you can have open world feel without forcing PVP.


    the only problem with that is the size of the world. i remember beta back in the day with only one server and once you got out in the world it felt very empty.

    as long as people are okay with that then i think it will work but some, especially on a pvp server, may not like that. 



    The PVP players will have to like it lol. There will be no shared PVP/PVE server and good on them for realizing the shit those types of servers bring. I'm glad to see devs going back to the oldest style of server choice, Pantheon being another mmo doing the same. This game is not just being made for PVPers it's also being made for PVE players. PVPers don't like it then go play a total PVP game. Age Of Wushu 2 might be more your thing, a PVP mmo with PVE all on same server.
    you are not understanding my point. you are not going to see many people because the world is so big, it's going to feel empty and with more than one server its going to make it feel that much more empty.

    they could have announced one pve and one RP server and my point would still stand. i mentioned especially on a pvp server because on a pve server people might be more willing to not see other people but on a pvp server that probably won't fly, it likely wouldn't on a RP server either.

    IMO they should either stick with pvp or just make it pve and only have one server. either that or somehow implement pvp in a different way while keeping one  pve server.

    having multiple servers with a world that big isn't a great idea IMO

    also, you are comparing a pantheon server to a dark and light server which features a world that covers over 40,000 square kilometers.




  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    baphamet said:

    baphamet said:


    k61977 said:

    "Our plan right now is to offer two different server environments, one for FFA PvP, and one for non-PvP for players to choose from based on the way they want to play."



    Well this comment right here is enough to get me to try the game if they do push it out. A developer that actually realizes you can have open world feel without forcing PVP.


    the only problem with that is the size of the world. i remember beta back in the day with only one server and once you got out in the world it felt very empty.

    as long as people are okay with that then i think it will work but some, especially on a pvp server, may not like that. 



    The PVP players will have to like it lol. There will be no shared PVP/PVE server and good on them for realizing the shit those types of servers bring. I'm glad to see devs going back to the oldest style of server choice, Pantheon being another mmo doing the same. This game is not just being made for PVPers it's also being made for PVE players. PVPers don't like it then go play a total PVP game. Age Of Wushu 2 might be more your thing, a PVP mmo with PVE all on same server.
    you are not understanding my point. you are not going to see many people because the world is so big, it's going to feel empty and with more than one server its going to make it feel that much more empty.

    they could have announced one pve and one RP server and my point would still stand. i mentioned especially on a pvp server because on a pve server people might be more willing to not see other people but on a pvp server that probably won't fly, it likely wouldn't on a RP server either.

    IMO they should either stick with pvp or just make it pve and only have one server. either that or somehow implement pvp in a different way while keeping one  pve server.

    having multiple servers with a world that big isn't a great idea IMO

    also, you are comparing a pantheon server to a dark and light server which features a world that covers over 40,000 square kilometers.




    Without knowing what the population cap per server are going to be, there is not really much to talk about in this regard. Multiple servers might be a necessity. As long as the whole world is well populated with interesting things to see and do and the game play is satisfying, I don't see there being much of an issue.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 33,025
    laserit said:
    baphamet said:

    baphamet said:


    k61977 said:

    "Our plan right now is to offer two different server environments, one for FFA PvP, and one for non-PvP for players to choose from based on the way they want to play."



    Well this comment right here is enough to get me to try the game if they do push it out. A developer that actually realizes you can have open world feel without forcing PVP.


    the only problem with that is the size of the world. i remember beta back in the day with only one server and once you got out in the world it felt very empty.

    as long as people are okay with that then i think it will work but some, especially on a pvp server, may not like that. 



    The PVP players will have to like it lol. There will be no shared PVP/PVE server and good on them for realizing the shit those types of servers bring. I'm glad to see devs going back to the oldest style of server choice, Pantheon being another mmo doing the same. This game is not just being made for PVPers it's also being made for PVE players. PVPers don't like it then go play a total PVP game. Age Of Wushu 2 might be more your thing, a PVP mmo with PVE all on same server.
    you are not understanding my point. you are not going to see many people because the world is so big, it's going to feel empty and with more than one server its going to make it feel that much more empty.

    they could have announced one pve and one RP server and my point would still stand. i mentioned especially on a pvp server because on a pve server people might be more willing to not see other people but on a pvp server that probably won't fly, it likely wouldn't on a RP server either.

    IMO they should either stick with pvp or just make it pve and only have one server. either that or somehow implement pvp in a different way while keeping one  pve server.

    having multiple servers with a world that big isn't a great idea IMO

    also, you are comparing a pantheon server to a dark and light server which features a world that covers over 40,000 square kilometers.




    Without knowing what the population cap per server are going to be, there is not really much to talk about in this regard. Multiple servers might be a necessity. As long as the whole world is well populated with interesting things to see and do and the game play is satisfying, I don't see there being much of an issue.
    While I think he has a point I also think that players who want a large, open world and who are explorers might prefer to "get lost" a bit and not run into other players at every step. 

    I know I sort of preferred it in Vanguard when I could head out and there weren't players everywhere I looked.
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  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    baphamet said:
    baphamet said:

    k61977 said:

    "Our plan right now is to offer two different server environments, one for FFA PvP, and one for non-PvP for players to choose from based on the way they want to play."



    Well this comment right here is enough to get me to try the game if they do push it out. A developer that actually realizes you can have open world feel without forcing PVP.

    the only problem with that is the size of the world. i remember beta back in the day with only one server and once you got out in the world it felt very empty.

    as long as people are okay with that then i think it will work but some, especially on a pvp server, may not like that. 
    The PVP players will have to like it lol. There will be no shared PVP/PVE server and good on them for realizing the shit those types of servers bring. I'm glad to see devs going back to the oldest style of server choice, Pantheon being another mmo doing the same. This game is not just being made for PVPers it's also being made for PVE players. PVPers don't like it then go play a total PVP game. Age Of Wushu 2 might be more your thing, a PVP mmo with PVE all on same server.
    you are not understanding my point. you are not going to see many people because the world is so big, it's going to feel empty and with more than one server its going to make it feel that much more empty.

    they could have announced one pve and one RP server and my point would still stand. i mentioned especially on a pvp server because on a pve server people might be more willing to not see other people but on a pvp server that probably won't fly, it likely wouldn't on a RP server either.

    IMO they should either stick with pvp or just make it pve and only have one server. either that or somehow implement pvp in a different way while keeping one  pve server.

    having multiple servers with a world that big isn't a great idea IMO

    also, you are comparing a pantheon server to a dark and light server which features a world that covers over 40,000 square kilometers.


    Aren't you just assuming it will be a big world.  My guess is much of the code from the original game will be changed.  That was one of the problems with the original game, they made the world so big it caused problems with their code.

    I think you are worrying completely over nothing.  Let's see what kind of game they produce.  I bet it will be a lot different than the original game.
  • DartoxerDartoxer Member UncommonPosts: 15
    edited August 2016
    On top of the action combat system, it turns out DnL will be primarily a first-person game. Source.

    The person who said this (Horsejoke) is an Associate Producer at Snail Games USA. He/She regularly answers questions on discord. Discord link for anyone who's interested.
    Post edited by Dartoxer on
  • NasaNasa Member UncommonPosts: 749
    So they will start as B2P then add subscription and P2W just like Black Desert?
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Pesky said:
    I was really interested in this game until I saw it uses 'Action Combat'. I'm an old fart. I loathe action combat! I just don't have the reflexes for it.

    Anyway, I'll keep an eye on it. Maybe there'll be lots of other things to do, so people who can't handle action combat can avoid having to fight stuff.
    I am older but still have great reflexes and i still don't ,like action combat.Every time i see the term ACTION now i think of crappy moba's.The ONLY time i want action combat is if the game and it's maps is entirely designed around it and rpg's NEVER are.

    I see that picture with a Dinosaur i think of a shallow boring game like ARK,i have no interest in a game that just wants to show me some dinosaur animations in some random fauna.

    They want to  get me interested,i have to see a well designed structures game and to be honest,point allotments usually turn me right off.Where in the history of mankind have we EVER had a choice to put points into our lifestyles or systems?lmao,Oh here i want to be faster,let me put 3 points into faster legs and 2 points into stronger arms ...sigh.It is such a dumb non plausible idea and yet they said they wanted to make a believable world.
    Point being,they are not giving me much to get interested in,actually sending me in the opposite direction.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Wizardry said:
    Pesky said:
    I was really interested in this game until I saw it uses 'Action Combat'. I'm an old fart. I loathe action combat! I just don't have the reflexes for it.

    Anyway, I'll keep an eye on it. Maybe there'll be lots of other things to do, so people who can't handle action combat can avoid having to fight stuff.
    I am older but still have great reflexes and i still don't ,like action combat.Every time i see the term ACTION now i think of crappy moba's.The ONLY time i want action combat is if the game and it's maps is entirely designed around it and rpg's NEVER are.

    I see that picture with a Dinosaur i think of a shallow boring game like ARK,i have no interest in a game that just wants to show me some dinosaur animations in some random fauna.

    They want to  get me interested,i have to see a well designed structures game and to be honest,point allotments usually turn me right off.Where in the history of mankind have we EVER had a choice to put points into our lifestyles or systems?lmao,Oh here i want to be faster,let me put 3 points into faster legs and 2 points into stronger arms ...sigh.It is such a dumb non plausible idea and yet they said they wanted to make a believable world.
    Point being,they are not giving me much to get interested in,actually sending me in the opposite direction.
      Most people do everyday , if you got the gym you are putting points in Str , Run Stamina , Read Intelligence (Knowledge) , Excersises to increse Dex, Balance ... Every day people try to improve themselves , With diet to get some points in BP, Blood count , Sugar .. Im sure your fingers are more dextourus from the endless  walls of text .... Of course these are all just examples , you shoud try some of the others ...
  • DavodtheTuttDavodtheTutt Member UncommonPosts: 415
    A thought occurred to me regarding the desire to make opportunities for more skills/ways to advance than just killing and exploring, i.e. crafting, gathering... but on the other hand, these tend to be very boring, especially as in-game activities. So here's the idea: Make the boring aspects things you could set your character to work on -- WHEN YOU ARE OFF-LINE. Of course, you'd want to set a limit, but you could also schedule your character to do several tasks, once you had met the prerequisites. Say you explore and discover a vein of ore. You could set a marker and make a note in your virtual schedule book and continue playing, and as long as you didn't go too far, when you came back the next day, your character would be camped out by a hole in the ground with a bag of ore. Hmm, sort of like having a bot as part of the game. Maybe make cheat bots obsolete? Nah... still, a thought.
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311
    edited August 2016
    Sovrath said:

    While I think he has a point I also think that players who want a large, open world and who are explorers might prefer to "get lost" a bit and not run into other players at every step. 

    I know I sort of preferred it in Vanguard when I could head out and there weren't players everywhere I looked.
    which is why i made this point: "on a pve server people might be more willing to not see other people but on a pvp server that probably won't fly, it likely wouldn't on a RP server either."

    pvp and RP players want to see other players. so i can see it having success on a pve only server but a pvp server will likely fail and take players away from the pve server.

    IMO the world felt really empty in open beta with just one server, that was in it's hype glory days.
    Post edited by baphamet on
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311
    edited August 2016
    Ozmodan said:



    Aren't you just assuming it will be a big world.  My guess is much of the code from the original game will be changed.  That was one of the problems with the original game, they made the world so big it caused problems with their code.

    I think you are worrying completely over nothing.  Let's see what kind of game they produce.  I bet it will be a lot different than the original game.
    i'm assuming it's the same world yes, if they scale it back that is a pretty big deal and they probably would have mentioned it from the very start.

    until i hear otherwise, i'm going to assume the size of the world is the same.
  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    People need to learn to check their hype for anything from this company. I can already see the BDO and NMS type of hype building up. You all should look into the companies history of broken promises to their players. Specially if they start selling starter or founders packs. Just a friendly warning.
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