Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
If you want a western MMO with good graphics, then you should develop it yourself. What you will get with most MMO publishers in the west are two issues. Either they have a he's my friend art director, so the art direction is limited by the guy on top. Or they have the everyone is a Jr artist where the art is limited by people fresh out of school willing to work for 30k a year with no benefits. What eastern MMO publishers are not afraid to do is buy assets or limit variety for aesthetics. When you play enough mmos you start to see games with the same art assets. When you develop a game with more aesthetic player choice, you have to generalize the design and lose details.
I don't really think any of that is true.
Just because someone is "out of art school" doesn't mean that they are locked into bad art.
Also I don't really believe that Asian games buy assets or limit variety. They do have a fondness of "copying" and it seems ok there. However, from what I've seen, Asian games, mmo's, have quite a bit of variety. Some would say too much as they sometimes get into the fantastical for the sake of fantastical.
It's the only way to keep the game cost low without thoroughly vetting the artists for consistent deliveries. I know Cryptic and Daybreak hire predominantly people who are new to the industry within its art department. I am not saying they are locked into bad art. I am saying they are not experienced enough to do detailed and aesthetically pleasing art. They probably lack the experience to get consistent results or work with more modular designed assets like armor. There is also a bit more of the old boys club going around with MMORPG studios. Companies like Trion came from veterans of other companies. It should only be reasonable that their artists will retain the same style of work.
When it comes to variety, I think its clear to say Black Desert Online lacks variety in some sense. Sure it has some nice sliders to sculpt the face, but what about the body and armor? There is not much progression when it comes to the look of outfits. On the other hand with most western mmo companies there are 5 to 10 times as many clothes to wear. This just doesn't apply to Black Desert Online. It's fairly consistent in Eastern MMOs. They look nice but there is not a lot of it. I think buying assets is a bit more common, especially for common assets like trees and terrain textures. After all why pay someone $6000 to collect photo-based rock assets verse buying a pack for $2000. In older titles from 2006-2008 you can also see some monsters and characters that look the same as in other mmorpgs. These were most likely purchased assets as well.
I think Age of Conan looked nice and had some good combat. It was about 4 years too early. They also had that weird cybering incident. However, it's not really a US developed title. It's a European based title. There are not a lot of European based MMORPG companies. The only other one that comes to mind is The Chronicles of Spellborn that also had good artwork.
When it comes to game play, I think Eastern mmorpg companies have surpassed western mmorpg companies like 5 years ago. North American based MMORPG development has simply stagnated over the last 5 years. The major ones to come out recently are more of online co-op titles. They also have nice art. When you look at some Eastern MMOs you see so much more game play experimentation now. There is Mabinogi which is very in depth in terms of crafting and combat. It also has many activities for the player to do. You have Vindictus with combat like Might and Magic Dark Messiah. Then there is BDO which has involved crafting.
Look at what the western world considers to be beautiful. Cartoony plastic surgery laden malformed freaks. Natural/realistic beauty is not part of western culture.
So, ignoring the OP's unfair comparison of the current state of the graphical art MMORPG, perhaps of all time, Black Desert to WoW, the aging juggernaut designed for much less than cutting edge systems, I will state that this topic is confined to an intellectual space of taste and opinion only.
Beauty is subjective. Moreover, desiring beauty in MMORPGs, though often expressed, is reflecting a personal preference, not a technical or artistic necessity. And I do question that desire because personally I find the term beautiful, when describing MMORPGs, to be overused, ambiguous, and problematic.
That being stated, I do love many of the Eastern art styles and sensibilities (particularly animations and variety of mob types). But I absolutely do tend to prefer the darkness and ruggedness of Western art direction; I do tend to check out a little bit when pre-adolescent cuteness and cheery primary colourfullness is overused as it often is in Eastern games. I'll add once again that I'm talking opinion here, not absolute irrefutable truth.
Also, acknowledging that it is somewhat influenced by Eastern styles, Guild Wars 2--a Western MMORPG--is arguably one of the most beautiful looking games ever made.
Well..FUNCOM has Always had high and realistic styled Graphics in their MMO's, starting with Anarchy Online and then Age of Conan and then The Secret World. But in the end it was also their Nail in the coffin so to say.
I'm not impressed by BDO at all..I found it UGLY and all the over the top spell effects made it even UGLIER.
There hasn't even been a big budget mmo with an even semi-realistic art style in nearly a decade. I'm not sure what one could even use as a basis of comparison to make this claim.
You're limiting profits when you make a game require top-end computers to run it.
One of the core reasons WoW or LOL have so many players is you can run those games on toasters, and most people in the world have toasters for computers.
There hasn't even been a big budget mmo with an even semi-realistic art style in nearly a decade. I'm not sure what one could even use as a basis of comparison to make this claim.
Plus if the east has all this great graphics, he certainly doesn't need the west to make them too. Unless the east is lacking something else.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
There hasn't even been a big budget mmo with an even semi-realistic art style in nearly a decade. I'm not sure what one could even use as a basis of comparison to make this claim.
Plus if the east has all this great graphics, he certainly doesn't need the west to make them too. Unless the east is lacking something else.
Imagine if someone like Brad Mcqaid or Mark Jabobs were free to use the source code and all the assets from a game like Black Desert.
The west can make anything they want. Big money just isn't interested at the moment. The west is a society of greed and snobbery. Inter mixed with egocentric ideas. If the west wanted too they could destroy any game made today. They could make a beautiful game with everything you want, but sadly they don't care. They want the quick buck. Mobile games for instance are quick money. What the west is concerned with is economics. The buy and sell mentality is on ludicrous speed; if I may quote spaceballs. Gamers suffer because of greed in our society. This is reality people plain and simple, and it sucks badly for us. Asian game makers are the only ones still trying to push the envelope, but their ethics are hard for us to understand. They play by different rules, and have different ideas when it comes to game play. They embrace P2W because culturally it is acceptable. I used to work at an Indian Casino called "Pala Casino". This casino would bus in Asians from Los Angeles and Orange County everyday. They love to gamble, and it is just a way of life for them. They also are incredibly good people and I was fortunate to know many of them. What I'm saying is P2W is nothing for them because they already live in that realm. What we have here is a clash of cultures, along with different mechanics and philosophies.
Honestly western gamers are a bit out of place lately.
TSW was so ugly when it first launched they had to fix it in a following patch. Holy f%#k what a different perspective that is. To follow that up with how ugly BDO is. It's like reverse Shallow Hal.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
You're limiting profits when you make a game require top-end computers to run it.
One of the core reasons WoW or LOL have so many players is you can run those games on toasters, and most people in the world have toasters for computers.
good realistic graphic doesnt required top end graphic card to run it..
its the art not the textures..
look at devil may cry 4...i like the arts.. the game graphic was not that high.
You're limiting profits when you make a game require top-end computers to run it.
One of the core reasons WoW or LOL have so many players is you can run those games on toasters, and most people in the world have toasters for computers.
good realistic graphic doesnt required top end graphic card to run it..
its the art not the textures..
look at devil may cry 4...i like the arts.. the game graphic was not that high.
That's true, and it is true that the East seems to care more about appealing aesthetics than the West.
OP mentioned BDO though, which does in fact require top end graphics to run.
I've been asking myself that since I saw how atrocious the Lord of the Rings Online was in that department. It's as if western developers are satisfied with wearing "socks with sandals".
Stylized allows for more longevity with less maintenance.
EQ2 was gorgeous when it released. LOTRO was fantastic out the gate. EVE's Incarna characters looked amazing. But the reality is that 3 years down the line you're looking at a major graphics overhaul to avoid looking dated. That can be a monumental task, especially in the case of something like LOTRO or Everquest 2, where you have seemingly endless assets to update.
In the west, it's pretty well understood that the minute an MMO's cutting edge graphics start to look dated, that becomes a massive strike against it. The most sound approach at that point is to go with anything but realism.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Even Black Desert - while it has best models and enviroments in whole MMORPG industry, suffers from severe popping-in & choppy combat animations (I know it is on purpose but it looks BAD).
As for other titles don't even get me started. Neverwinter and Skyforge look ultra generic and generally unimpressive.
TESO - very dissapointing. Enviroments especially grass, snow, vegetation looks preety bad for AAA game and character models look atrocious. Damn.
TSW - overally not so bad looking but animations, man animations. Horrible. Just horrible animations.
Guild Wars 2 - meh. I never understood why some people said it looks good. It does not.
Even Black Desert - while it has best models and enviroments in whole MMORPG industry, suffers from severe popping-in & choppy combat animations (I know it is on purpose but it looks BAD).
As for other titles don't even get me started. Neverwinter and Skyforge look ultra generic and generally unimpressive.
TESO - very dissapointing. Enviroments especially grass, snow, vegetation looks preety bad for AAA game and character models look atrocious. Damn.
TSW - overally not so bad looking but animations, man animations. Horrible. Just horrible animations.
Guild Wars 2 - meh. I never understood why some people said it looks good. It does not.
gw2 was good when 1st comes up, but when bdo comes, it beginning to looks old. still good thou but old. especially very limited customization option. no boobs slider, no body slider, limited face presets.
i agree teso character model is very bad...look at the face..especially female..ew...who look like that...its ugly
Look at what the western world considers to be beautiful. Cartoony plastic surgery laden malformed freaks. Natural/realistic beauty is not part of western culture.
japan too..
sad people these days cant differentiate between natural beauty and ugly plastic surgery face
You're limiting profits when you make a game require top-end computers to run it.
One of the core reasons WoW or LOL have so many players is you can run those games on toasters, and most people in the world have toasters for computers.
good realistic graphic doesnt required top end graphic card to run it..
its the art not the textures..
look at devil may cry 4...i like the arts.. the game graphic was not that high.
That's true, and it is true that the East seems to care more about appealing aesthetics than the West.
OP mentioned BDO though, which does in fact require top end graphics to run.
BDO actually scales rather well to shitty computers. My old laptop can run it with the graphics toned all the way down. Of course it isn't nearly as pretty then, but it's functional.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The most ambitious MMO's i see in development are being made on the West. Ambitious = different and fresh approaches to the genre.
From Star Citizen, Crowfall, Chronicles of Elyria, Camelot Unchained, i think all of these are being made on the West. Then you have the ones who are already released like Guild Wars 2.
Because art is subjective. Personally I still think WoW is one of the best looking games out there for MMOS, especially in the most recent expansion + legion. Personally I think most MMOs from the East look like garbage. Personally...this is entirely an opinion and has no merit to a quality discussion.
Because art is subjective. Personally I still think WoW is one of the best looking games out there for MMOS, especially in the most recent expansion + legion. Personally I think most MMOs from the East look like garbage. Personally...this is entirely an opinion and has no merit to a quality discussion.
come on bro. wow u said good graphic? we are in 2016. im fine if we were in 2006, i still think ragnarok online (2d game, with no face character) is good. but its 2016...
Comments
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
There is also a bit more of the old boys club going around with MMORPG studios. Companies like Trion came from veterans of other companies. It should only be reasonable that their artists will retain the same style of work.
When it comes to variety, I think its clear to say Black Desert Online lacks variety in some sense. Sure it has some nice sliders to sculpt the face, but what about the body and armor? There is not much progression when it comes to the look of outfits. On the other hand with most western mmo companies there are 5 to 10 times as many clothes to wear. This just doesn't apply to Black Desert Online. It's fairly consistent in Eastern MMOs. They look nice but there is not a lot of it.
I think buying assets is a bit more common, especially for common assets like trees and terrain textures. After all why pay someone $6000 to collect photo-based rock assets verse buying a pack for $2000. In older titles from 2006-2008 you can also see some monsters and characters that look the same as in other mmorpgs. These were most likely purchased assets as well.
I think Age of Conan looked nice and had some good combat. It was about 4 years too early. They also had that weird cybering incident. However, it's not really a US developed title. It's a European based title. There are not a lot of European based MMORPG companies. The only other one that comes to mind is The Chronicles of Spellborn that also had good artwork.
When it comes to game play, I think Eastern mmorpg companies have surpassed western mmorpg companies like 5 years ago. North American based MMORPG development has simply stagnated over the last 5 years. The major ones to come out recently are more of online co-op titles. They also have nice art. When you look at some Eastern MMOs you see so much more game play experimentation now. There is Mabinogi which is very in depth in terms of crafting and combat. It also has many activities for the player to do. You have Vindictus with combat like Might and Magic Dark Messiah. Then there is BDO which has involved crafting.
Beauty is subjective. Moreover, desiring beauty in MMORPGs, though often expressed, is reflecting a personal preference, not a technical or artistic necessity. And I do question that desire because personally I find the term beautiful, when describing MMORPGs, to be overused, ambiguous, and problematic.
That being stated, I do love many of the Eastern art styles and sensibilities (particularly animations and variety of mob types). But I absolutely do tend to prefer the darkness and ruggedness of Western art direction; I do tend to check out a little bit when pre-adolescent cuteness and cheery primary colourfullness is overused as it often is in Eastern games. I'll add once again that I'm talking opinion here, not absolute irrefutable truth.
Also, acknowledging that it is somewhat influenced by Eastern styles, Guild Wars 2--a Western MMORPG--is arguably one of the most beautiful looking games ever made.
I'm not impressed by BDO at all..I found it UGLY and all the over the top spell effects made it even UGLIER.
One of the core reasons WoW or LOL have so many players is you can run those games on toasters, and most people in the world have toasters for computers.
Plus if the east has all this great graphics, he certainly doesn't need the west to make them too. Unless the east is lacking something else.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I'd love to see what they could do with it.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Honestly western gamers are a bit out of place lately.
Cheers...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
its the art not the textures..
look at devil may cry 4...i like the arts.. the game graphic was not that high.
Subjective, obviously.
OP mentioned BDO though, which does in fact require top end graphics to run.
EQ2 was gorgeous when it released. LOTRO was fantastic out the gate. EVE's Incarna characters looked amazing. But the reality is that 3 years down the line you're looking at a major graphics overhaul to avoid looking dated. That can be a monumental task, especially in the case of something like LOTRO or Everquest 2, where you have seemingly endless assets to update.
In the west, it's pretty well understood that the minute an MMO's cutting edge graphics start to look dated, that becomes a massive strike against it. The most sound approach at that point is to go with anything but realism.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Most Asian MMORPGs look bad as well.
Even Black Desert - while it has best models and enviroments in whole MMORPG industry, suffers from severe popping-in & choppy combat animations (I know it is on purpose but it looks BAD).
As for other titles don't even get me started. Neverwinter and Skyforge look ultra generic and generally unimpressive.
TESO - very dissapointing. Enviroments especially grass, snow, vegetation looks preety bad for AAA game and character models look atrocious. Damn.
TSW - overally not so bad looking but animations, man animations. Horrible. Just horrible animations.
Guild Wars 2 - meh. I never understood why some people said it looks good. It does not.
i agree teso character model is very bad...look at the face..especially female..ew...who look like that...its ugly
sad people these days cant differentiate between natural beauty and ugly plastic surgery face
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
From Star Citizen, Crowfall, Chronicles of Elyria, Camelot Unchained, i think all of these are being made on the West. Then you have the ones who are already released like Guild Wars 2.