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Black Desert censorship veers into the realm of the absurd

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  • meonthissitemeonthissite Member UncommonPosts: 917
    Lleith said:
    https://bdomaths.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/the-end-of-a-short-journey/

    The guy was banned for posting that. Controversial? Sure - but certainly not anywhere near the most vitriolic thing that BDO's forums have seen in the past 48 hours. But the ban hammer came down nonetheless: thread deleted, user bludgeoned into silence.

    Honestly, as an MMORPG company, you couldn't draw up a battleplan to sink your own stock and trade faster than what Daum/Kakao (or however the hell it's spelled) are doing. It's absolutely amazing how out-of-touch they are, and even more bizarre that they believe that in the most tech-savvy era in human history that word of their shenanigans wouldn't IMMEDIATELY get out and be poured like gasoline back onto the fire brewing in their backyard.

    Now every 3rd post is quoting that deleted thread! There's nothing like successful censorship!
    Welcome to the new method of damage control. 

    You missed a couple of pay to win models there I noticed. These things were practiced in many an MMO especially recently. NWO for example and GW2. When thousands of posts are sent into the forums and they realize hey people might actually be realizing what we're doing to take advantage of them, silence is their method. 

    They remove you so out of sight out of mind it doesn't exist for other players who don't know.

    It's happening all over the PC gaming world particularly in mmo's that try a fast one.
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,606
    edited August 2016
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Except daum never said they wouldn't " cut off service " or in this case allowing pearl items to be purchased with cash and sold in game. This keeps getting repeated but ignored. And people aren't defending the company thy are pointing out the obvious .
    Actually, DAUM did make the statement of steering clear of P2W as much as possible 2-3 weeks before launch. They knew that if they had said that they would leave P2W as an option on the table before launch, they would have had a lot less in box sales at launch, if not forever. I know that and so do you and that is borderline false advertising. They had no intention of keeping cash shop items out of the in-game market. They flat out lied about it considering it hasn't even been out in NA / EU for 6 months yet and we are already seeing it. You may think that is acceptable business practices, but I sure as hell don't.

    EDIT: This is no different than what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies and the Trials of Obi Wan expansion launched right before the NGE. Guess what happened with that? They offered to refund on the expansion for everyone that bought it.

    SOE Refund for ToO expansion launching just days before NGE.

  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 963
    edited August 2016
    Nilden said:
    Gdemami said:
    Nilden said:
    I'm sorry but censorship is just trash.
    Whole point of forum moderation(censorship) is to get rid of trash posts, precisely like one linked in OP.
    I do this thing called supporting free speech. He wasn't posting anything illegal and just stated an opinion. It's trash to censor it and you are trash for supporting censorship.
    WTF is this freedom of speech nonsense, you kids today throw around these words like it  means the same thing all over the place...Guess what YOU HAVE RULES TO FOLLOW... 

    Forums can have any rule they want, I have ran websites for years if you are trashing the company that is running that site, YOU ARE BANNED... End of story....

    Use forums like this or others forums that allow trashing of a person or company to do so... But if you came to my forum to trash me, I would ban you as well!!!

    How about you make a game or run a company, and I will sit there and post nonsense all day over it....  I bet you would ban me to..

    You people need to get real...I hate P2W as much as the next guy but sick of this generation thinking everyone owes them something....  and that freedom of speech is everything...and you kids to are offended by every damn thing people say.... You are in trouble in life if you get your feelings hurt so easy ...and whine about some dumb things..
    STOP PLAYING THE GAME IF YOU HATE IT SO MUCH!!!


    What a joke, freedom of speech and  crap like censorship........ WOW you people...   No wonder we have people like we do running countrys and running them into the ground the way we do....People like this whining about the dumb things..Guess what people are dying of cancer, and starving,  do they get freedom of speech and  health care like they should?? No, so go rant about something more important!!!!

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,474
    Rhoklaw said:
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Except daum never said they wouldn't " cut off service " or in this case allowing pearl items to be purchased with cash and sold in game. This keeps getting repeated but ignored. And people aren't defending the company thy are pointing out the obvious .
    Actually, DAUM did make the statement of steering clear of P2W as much as possible 2-3 weeks before launch. They knew that if they had said that they would leave P2W as an option on the table before launch, they would have had a lot less in box sales at launch, if not forever. I know that and so do you and that is borderline false advertising. They had no intention of keeping cash shop items out of the in-game market. They flat out lied about it considering it hasn't even been out in NA / EU for 6 months yet and we are already seeing it. You may think that is acceptable business practices, but I sure as hell don't.

    EDIT: This is no different than what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies and the Trials of Obi Wan expansion launched right before the NGE. Guess what happened with that? They offered to refund on the expansion for everyone that bought it.

    SOE Refund for ToO expansion launching just days before NGE.
    That's true but what they said was that "if they revisited allowing cash bought items they would have 'controls'"

    The thing is, anyone worth their salt should have realized that eventually they would allow these items (they didn't say they would "never") and the whole idea of P2W is so subjective that anyone truly concerned should have steered clear.



  • linadragonlinadragon Member RarePosts: 581
    Rhoklaw said:
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Except daum never said they wouldn't " cut off service " or in this case allowing pearl items to be purchased with cash and sold in game. This keeps getting repeated but ignored. And people aren't defending the company thy are pointing out the obvious .
    Actually, DAUM did make the statement of steering clear of P2W as much as possible 2-3 weeks before launch. They knew that if they had said that they would leave P2W as an option on the table before launch, they would have had a lot less in box sales at launch, if not forever. I know that and so do you and that is borderline false advertising. They had no intention of keeping cash shop items out of the in-game market. They flat out lied about it considering it hasn't even been out in NA / EU for 6 months yet and we are already seeing it. You may think that is acceptable business practices, but I sure as hell don't.

    EDIT: This is no different than what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies and the Trials of Obi Wan expansion launched right before the NGE. Guess what happened with that? They offered to refund on the expansion for everyone that bought it.

    SOE Refund for ToO expansion launching just days before NGE.
    And daum has VERY VERY much steered clear of p2w. People bending the meaning of p2w to fit their own meaning don't suddenly make something pay to win. Unless you can flat out buy power in the cash shop of an mmorpg that gives you power that is greater than you can get in the game otherwise and that is literally the only way to attain that item then the game in question isn't P2W no matter what someone wants to think it is. Being able to sell cash shop items in a very limited manner for some in game silver does not make it pay 2 win in the least and they very heavily kept to their word wit hthe cash shop. None of the cash shop items are p2w (including the ghillie suit that people love to go on about, hiding ones name isn't an edge at all unless you are flat out relying on them, I can get that same first strike just following you and using a ranged attack so it really doesn't help, and if you can't keep track of someone without a name plate just please gtfo) 

    Kakao (daum) has nothing going on at the moment that is pay to win despite what your skewed outlook on pay to win is. Daum removed items that had been in the korean/russian version of that game that were actually pay 2 win and stated that they would. They also stated as I stated earlier that they would not allow selling of pearl items on the marketplace at launch, but would revisit the issue at a later date (6 months later) and decide what to do from there and furthermore they stated if they did allow it mechanisms would be in place so it could not be abused to buy power fast which the 5 a week limit + a 20 mill cap on costumes being the high end rather proves that they kept their word. 

    And for the love of god you people need to stop skewing what pay 2 win is. If you want to see actual pay 2 win go play Mu or Shaiya or Silk Road 
  • linadragonlinadragon Member RarePosts: 581
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Except daum never said they wouldn't " cut off service " or in this case allowing pearl items to be purchased with cash and sold in game. This keeps getting repeated but ignored. And people aren't defending the company thy are pointing out the obvious .
    Actually, DAUM did make the statement of steering clear of P2W as much as possible 2-3 weeks before launch. They knew that if they had said that they would leave P2W as an option on the table before launch, they would have had a lot less in box sales at launch, if not forever. I know that and so do you and that is borderline false advertising. They had no intention of keeping cash shop items out of the in-game market. They flat out lied about it considering it hasn't even been out in NA / EU for 6 months yet and we are already seeing it. You may think that is acceptable business practices, but I sure as hell don't.

    EDIT: This is no different than what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies and the Trials of Obi Wan expansion launched right before the NGE. Guess what happened with that? They offered to refund on the expansion for everyone that bought it.

    SOE Refund for ToO expansion launching just days before NGE.
    That's true but what they said was that "if they revisited allowing cash bought items they would have 'controls'"

    The thing is, anyone worth their salt should have realized that eventually they would allow these items (they didn't say they would "never") and the whole idea of P2W is so subjective that anyone truly concerned should have steered clear.
    Pay 2 win isn't even subjective though. There is a literal meaning to it and an "opinionated" meaning. The two don't quite match up at all and the opinionated meaning of it pretty much makes anything a person doesn't like being for real money a p2w scenario even when it really isn't. The opinionated meaning of it seems to be some ever expanding entity that pretty much encompasses well literally everything. I hate this whole "everyone has their own idea of what pay 2 win is" bullshit that has sprung up. If a game does not fall under the literal meaning of the term which has been buying power in the cash shop that gives you an edge otherwise not attainable in the game, (ie making the best gear in a game gear you need to open your wallet to get.) then by definition that game is not actually pay 2 win. 
  • renstarensta Member RarePosts: 619
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Except daum never said they wouldn't " cut off service " or in this case allowing pearl items to be purchased with cash and sold in game. This keeps getting repeated but ignored. And people aren't defending the company thy are pointing out the obvious .
    Actually, DAUM did make the statement of steering clear of P2W as much as possible 2-3 weeks before launch. They knew that if they had said that they would leave P2W as an option on the table before launch, they would have had a lot less in box sales at launch, if not forever. I know that and so do you and that is borderline false advertising. They had no intention of keeping cash shop items out of the in-game market. They flat out lied about it considering it hasn't even been out in NA / EU for 6 months yet and we are already seeing it. You may think that is acceptable business practices, but I sure as hell don't.

    EDIT: This is no different than what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies and the Trials of Obi Wan expansion launched right before the NGE. Guess what happened with that? They offered to refund on the expansion for everyone that bought it.

    SOE Refund for ToO expansion launching just days before NGE.
    That's true but what they said was that "if they revisited allowing cash bought items they would have 'controls'"

    The thing is, anyone worth their salt should have realized that eventually they would allow these items (they didn't say they would "never") and the whole idea of P2W is so subjective that anyone truly concerned should have steered clear.
    Pay 2 win isn't even subjective though. There is a literal meaning to it and an "opinionated" meaning. The two don't quite match up at all and the opinionated meaning of it pretty much makes anything a person doesn't like being for real money a p2w scenario even when it really isn't. The opinionated meaning of it seems to be some ever expanding entity that pretty much encompasses well literally everything. I hate this whole "everyone has their own idea of what pay 2 win is" bullshit that has sprung up. If a game does not fall under the literal meaning of the term which has been buying power in the cash shop that gives you an edge otherwise not attainable in the game, (ie making the best gear in a game gear you need to open your wallet to get.) then by definition that game is not actually pay 2 win. 
    Don't be silly, this is true for games like guildwars 2 ( games that don't focus on gear....) 
    In black desert every few months you will get a gear patch, getting the new gear will take another few months until the next patch, but not for all...  those who pay real money will be able to obtain it earlier, so in a way, they will always stay ahead, so in a way they get a true advantage unattainable by poor income players.  
    So another important factor is what type of game we talking about....  Gear progression type games with options in cash that allow them to progress faster to the gear will always give paying users advantage. 

    image


    Basically clicking away text windows ruins every MMO, try to have fun instead of rushing things. Without story and lore all there is left is a bunch of mechanics.
    Reply
    Add Multi-Quote

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    rensta said:
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Except daum never said they wouldn't " cut off service " or in this case allowing pearl items to be purchased with cash and sold in game. This keeps getting repeated but ignored. And people aren't defending the company thy are pointing out the obvious .
    Actually, DAUM did make the statement of steering clear of P2W as much as possible 2-3 weeks before launch. They knew that if they had said that they would leave P2W as an option on the table before launch, they would have had a lot less in box sales at launch, if not forever. I know that and so do you and that is borderline false advertising. They had no intention of keeping cash shop items out of the in-game market. They flat out lied about it considering it hasn't even been out in NA / EU for 6 months yet and we are already seeing it. You may think that is acceptable business practices, but I sure as hell don't.

    EDIT: This is no different than what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies and the Trials of Obi Wan expansion launched right before the NGE. Guess what happened with that? They offered to refund on the expansion for everyone that bought it.

    SOE Refund for ToO expansion launching just days before NGE.
    That's true but what they said was that "if they revisited allowing cash bought items they would have 'controls'"

    The thing is, anyone worth their salt should have realized that eventually they would allow these items (they didn't say they would "never") and the whole idea of P2W is so subjective that anyone truly concerned should have steered clear.
    Pay 2 win isn't even subjective though. There is a literal meaning to it and an "opinionated" meaning. The two don't quite match up at all and the opinionated meaning of it pretty much makes anything a person doesn't like being for real money a p2w scenario even when it really isn't. The opinionated meaning of it seems to be some ever expanding entity that pretty much encompasses well literally everything. I hate this whole "everyone has their own idea of what pay 2 win is" bullshit that has sprung up. If a game does not fall under the literal meaning of the term which has been buying power in the cash shop that gives you an edge otherwise not attainable in the game, (ie making the best gear in a game gear you need to open your wallet to get.) then by definition that game is not actually pay 2 win. 
    Don't be silly, this is true for games like guildwars 2 ( games that don't focus on gear....) 
    In black desert every few months you will get a gear patch, getting the new gear will take another few months until the next patch, but not for all...  those who pay real money will be able to obtain it earlier, so in a way, they will always stay ahead, so in a way they get a true advantage unattainable by poor income players.  
    So another important factor is what type of game we talking about....  Gear progression type games with options in cash that allow them to progress faster to the gear will always give paying users advantage. 
    True, though its amusing to watch the semantic gymnastics going on by some people in their efforts to somehow turn black into white and persuade people that something is obviously pay to win, actually isn't. When you can buy an item in the cash shop, that can then be sold in game for in game currency, then that is pay to win, in the case of BDO it allows players to buy upgrade items in amounts that enable them to upgrade their gear to the max far faster than players would otherwise be able to achieve.
    I have no doubt that there is currently an arms race going on as the top guilds vie for resources.
    New players are probably advised to keep their heads down and stay out of the way, because with the controls in place currently, they can't actually sell enough pearl shop items to buy the gear necessary to attempt to compete - it would take at least a month of selling to the current cap to gain enough resources to even begin to compete, something that does not apply to existing players with relatively high end gear that can now max out a couple of pieces a week before they hit the same limits. :o
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