This is awesome news, can finally buy stuff without spending a cent.
Kudos Kakao and PA - the NA version is finally moving closer to how KR is setup.
You know what I find funny about your post?
You are someone who has posted many times about your contempt for cheaters who use hacks and Daum's incompetence in eradicating those hacks and here you are praising a different thing that has essentially the same effect as hacks: allowing things external to the game itself to influence it in significant ways by providing a mechanism for people to buy their way into competitiveness.
It's no secret that I strongly dislike cash shops just as much as I dislike cheats. And I do so for similar reasons.
Competitive games are at their best when doing well or poorly at the competition is a function of how the player plays the same game that is available to everyone - not a game modified in your favor by either using hacks or throwing cash at it.
And I see very little difference in this respect, between throwing cash at a gold farmer/seller or at the company itself. Sure, when its the company itself doing it, they get increased revenues and presumably, that leads to better support of the game. But the integrity of the game itself is corrupted by allowing external factors to influence the competition.
I know the sub model is no longer in vogue but at least with that model, except for hacks, everyone had the same game to compete in.
You want to know what's been happening to MMORPGs and why they have lost the cache and popularity they once had? This is it right here: they've been cheapened by hackers, gold sellers and the companies themselves to the point where any kind of real honest competition in them exists only in the minds of the most naive.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
This is awesome news, can finally buy stuff without spending a cent.
Kudos Kakao and PA - the NA version is finally moving closer to how KR is setup.
You know what I find funny about your post?
You are someone who has posted many times about your contempt for cheaters who use hacks and Daum's incompetence in eradicating those hacks and here you are praising a different thing that has essentially the same effect as hacks: allowing things external to the game itself to influence it in significant ways by providing a mechanism for people to buy their way into competitiveness.
It's no secret that I strongly dislike cash shops just as much as I dislike cheats. And I do so for similar reasons.
Competitive games are at their best when doing well or poorly at the competition is a function of how the player plays the same game that is available to everyone - not a game modified in your favor by either using hacks or throwing cash at it.
And I see very little difference in this respect, between throwing cash at a gold farmer/seller or at the company itself. Sure, when its the company itself doing it, they get increased revenues and presumably, that leads to better support of the game. But the integrity of the game itself is corrupted by allowing external factors to influence the competition.
I know the sub model is no longer in vogue but at least with that model, except for hacks, everyone had the same game to compete in.
You want to know what's been happening to MMORPGs and why they have lost the cache and popularity they once had? This is it right here: they've been cheapened by hackers, gold sellers and the companies themselves to the point where any kind of real honest competition in them exists only in the minds of the most naive.
I just have a very different opinion on what's been happening to MMORPGs - the majority playerbase has a very different lifestyle and way of playing online games today than 10+ years ago
Most gamers today are short on time - because there's so much more demanding player's attention today (from social media, to mobile to console, to steam etc...) - heck a lot of this didn't exist during Gen1 MMORPG time- and MMOs of old were all about crazy time investment - when I had no family back in 1999 and I had copious amounts of free time - I played EQ1 for at least 6+ hours every day, and usually 24+ hours every weekened - it was not healthy
The game pace was intentionally SLOW because the sub model is designed around keeping people playing for as long as possible.
Over time - majority has no desire to waste that much time online - sure minority hardcore players still play to very unhealthy amounts - but that's far from normal.
As more and more MMOs started to get released - playerbase grew and the trend started slowly shifting to shorter play session and more "instant" type content - where you know getting to a hunt spot didn't take 30min just to start playing.
Ultimately as MMO playerbase ballooned to tens of millions of players and the number of games ballooned to 100s of MMOs - they've been made more and more accessible and more and more for the short term crowd that sticks around for about 2-6 weeks before hopping on the next shiny.
What happened to MMORPGs - they became a huge business, they became mainstream, and they are catering to the a playerbase that has to split game time with social media/mobile/constant steam releases, console releases, etc....
Hackers - gold sellers, etc.... they are product of the crazy popularity and playerbase size, they are not cause of the current state IMO
You may be right about how the models evolved, time investment, etc. Still, the point is that the regard, or lack of, in which we hold these games has everything to do with whether we perceive them as having integrity.
And payment in lieu of time commitment doesn't really justify that they have allowed for the competitiveness of the game itself to be compromised. They can't be taken seriously if they encourage players to buy their way into competitiveness any more than if they turn a blind eye to hacks and cheaters.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
This is awesome news, can finally buy stuff without spending a cent.
Kudos Kakao and PA - the NA version is finally moving closer to how KR is setup.
This is one of the biggest loads of manure you have foisted on these forums in quite some time now! After all the subtle ways you have put down BDO, specifically it's massive grind. Now, you are now coming in here acting all thrilled about how you can get Cash Shop items through trade as if now having to add yet another massive grind just to catch a mouth full of "whale shit" is appealing to you?
This is just one big troll!
Umm what?
Selling cash shop items in AH for silver provides gearing alternatives that didn't exist before.
More choices = better
Pay to advance faster is a great option for the working gamer that has disposable income but limited time.
Also it will give a nice revenue bost to devs to keep development going
The only people who have a problem here are the flag waving "no p2w" players who believe that if someone doesn't have 16 hours to spend a day to gear up, it's their own fault - /facepalm
Not everyone has the same amount of free time nor disposable income.
Locking out entire segment of players who are willing to pay but don't have the time to play is absurd to me.
So silly - if you don't want to pay, just keep grinding like before - that options hasnt gone away.
Lots of folks got geared up through grind alone.
/shrug
You are oversimplifying things to suit your argument. You argue that some players have time and other players have money so it all works out. In MMOs Time does not equal money. Not by a long shot. Money is far far greater in value than Time, by huge amounts, so much so, that it's really not a valid comparison. Having an excess of time in online gaming has next to no value when compared to people who have money to burn. But you speak as if they are of equal value. The amount of time required to obtain a fraction of what money can buy in these games makes it impossible to do short of 24/7 online activity, which is exactly what the gold farmers do because they have to. So that brings us to your 1st point. It really isn't the option you are making it out to be. I have played a few of these games, and yeah, I've seen players get stuff through grinding. They will never be able to swim with whales, The game's make sure the growth rate for whales exceeds the rate that players can grind and never catch up.
Keller said: Yeah, but it also will give carte blanch to devs. Seen it happen in other games. Now they can put everything in a cash-shop and just tell you, "hey you don't have to spend money, just play the game (= grind it)".
During the introduction period the exchange rate will be okay, but players and not the devs will be the ones who put stuff on the market. The devs will simply add more and more items/services to the cash-shop to maintain or even increase their income.
...so?
You are not making any point there apart from fairly safe assumption that there will be more things to buy - either directly in cash shop or for in-game money once people put it on the market.
Well, hoped you would understand that Pearls need to be bought for $$$. Someone has to give it to the devs. To generate enough income, they will come up with new ways that require players buying more Pearls. Micro-transactions that might affect the majority of players (or future players).
Say for example they add a mobile-phone slot to the equipment tab. You have to unlock that with pearls per character. Devs will say, get silver, because other players might sell it on the exchange. These things are already happened in Star Trek Online and Neverwinter and gear there only upgrades to tier 14. Rift is also a nice example from the top of my head. These micro-transaction don't scare the whales or "hardcore" players with enough time on their hands. You will loose the casual player who is forced to extra grind and doesn't have time to enjoy/play the real content.
This is awesome news, can finally buy stuff without spending a cent.
Kudos Kakao and PA - the NA version is finally moving closer to how KR is setup.
This is one of the biggest loads of manure you have foisted on these forums in quite some time now! After all the subtle ways you have put down BDO, specifically it's massive grind. Now, you are now coming in here acting all thrilled about how you can get Cash Shop items through trade as if now having to add yet another massive grind just to catch a mouth full of "whale shit" is appealing to you?
This is just one big troll!
Umm what?
Selling cash shop items in AH for silver provides gearing alternatives that didn't exist before.
More choices = better
Pay to advance faster is a great option for the working gamer that has disposable income but limited time.
Also it will give a nice revenue bost to devs to keep development going
The only people who have a problem here are the flag waving "no p2w" players who believe that if someone doesn't have 16 hours to spend a day to gear up, it's their own fault - /facepalm
Not everyone has the same amount of free time nor disposable income.
Locking out entire segment of players who are willing to pay but don't have the time to play is absurd to me.
So silly - if you don't want to pay, just keep grinding like before - that options hasnt gone away.
Lots of folks got geared up through grind alone.
/shrug
You are oversimplifying things to suit your argument. You argue that some players have time and other players have money so it all works out. In MMOs Time does not equal money. Not by a long shot. Money is far far greater in value than Time, by huge amounts, so much so, that it's really not a valid comparison. Having an excess of time in online gaming has next to no value when compared to people who have money to burn. But you speak as if they are of equal value. The amount of time required to obtain a fraction of what money can buy in these games makes it impossible to do short of 24/7 online activity, which is exactly what the gold farmers do because they have to. So that brings us to your 1st point. It really isn't the option you are making it out to be. I have played a few of these games, and yeah, I've seen players get stuff through grinding. They will never be able to swim with whales, The game's make sure the growth rate for whales exceeds the rate that players can grind and never catch up.
I am not saying that time is equal money.
I am saying that in case of Black Desert - providing a single Avenue to end game gear that involves 24/7 play and 1000s of hours of grind is simply alienating to majority of the players.
It is an unsustainable long term model.
Providing the ability to pay for increased advancement and fast track to end game not only does it infuse revenue into the game, it allows returning and new players a chance to catch up to veterans.
It also provides an option to any player who would rather spend money than do a large time commitment.
It also still leaves it possible to simply grind and get everything but obviously it would take WAY more time for someone who doesn't want to spend any money.
Having "pay to advance faster" is overall a better option, it's far from ideal but in today's MMO landscape - it's a necessity especially for major AAA titles that don't have a dedicated fanbase like Blizzard does
I still think you are oversimplifying this. You also don't present the down side to this kind of business model change.
But I really don't think we will ever agree that this isn't a good thing for the genre. So I'll just call it here.
This is awesome news, can finally buy stuff without spending a cent.
Kudos Kakao and PA - the NA version is finally moving closer to how KR is setup.
This is one of the biggest loads of manure you have foisted on these forums in quite some time now! After all the subtle ways you have put down BDO, specifically it's massive grind. Now, you are now coming in here acting all thrilled about how you can get Cash Shop items through trade as if now having to add yet another massive grind just to catch a mouth full of "whale shit" is appealing to you?
This is just one big troll!
Umm what?
Selling cash shop items in AH for silver provides gearing alternatives that didn't exist before.
More choices = better
Pay to advance faster is a great option for the working gamer that has disposable income but limited time.
Also it will give a nice revenue bost to devs to keep development going
The only people who have a problem here are the flag waving "no p2w" players who believe that if someone doesn't have 16 hours to spend a day to gear up, it's their own fault - /facepalm
Not everyone has the same amount of free time nor disposable income.
Locking out entire segment of players who are willing to pay but don't have the time to play is absurd to me.
So silly - if you don't want to pay, just keep grinding like before - that options hasnt gone away.
Lots of folks got geared up through grind alone.
/shrug
You are oversimplifying things to suit your argument. You argue that some players have time and other players have money so it all works out. In MMOs Time does not equal money. Not by a long shot. Money is far far greater in value than Time, by huge amounts, so much so, that it's really not a valid comparison. Having an excess of time in online gaming has next to no value when compared to people who have money to burn. But you speak as if they are of equal value. The amount of time required to obtain a fraction of what money can buy in these games makes it impossible to do short of 24/7 online activity, which is exactly what the gold farmers do because they have to. So that brings us to your 1st point. It really isn't the option you are making it out to be. I have played a few of these games, and yeah, I've seen players get stuff through grinding. They will never be able to swim with whales, The game's make sure the growth rate for whales exceeds the rate that players can grind and never catch up.
I am not saying that time is equal money.
I am saying that in case of Black Desert - providing a single Avenue to end game gear that involves 24/7 play and 1000s of hours of grind is simply alienating to majority of the players.
It is an unsustainable long term model.
Providing the ability to pay for increased advancement and fast track to end game not only does it infuse revenue into the game, it allows returning and new players a chance to catch up to veterans.
It also provides an option to any player who would rather spend money than do a large time commitment.
It also still leaves it possible to simply grind and get everything but obviously it would take WAY more time for someone who doesn't want to spend any money.
Having "pay to advance faster" is overall a better option, it's far from ideal but in today's MMO landscape - it's a necessity especially for major AAA titles that don't have a dedicated fanbase like Blizzard does
Enough with the excuses.
There are many other ways in which your concerns regarding the granting of compensation for players with no time due to RL world responsibilities can be alleviated without having to bestow them with the ability to "buy" a competitive crutch against other players who have sacrificed and "invested" their time. Your time is no more important than theirs. If you do not have the time to "invest" in a game in order to be competitive, then the common sense solution to that dilemma is to not play the game.
What about the concerns of players regarding the watering down resulting in a lack of sense of accomplishment through exerted effort, skill, ability, and time invested to become the best? I mean, what's the use in playing a game when at the end of the line opponents can simply question your overall in game accomplishments and "ownage" over them as having had merely opened up your wallet and paid for that achievement and competitive edge?
A game that allows for the circumventing with money, of the effort required to compete, achieve, and become the best through honest to goodness effort, skill, ability, time invested, and perseverance is a game that is simply not worth playing.
Having "pay to advance faster" is overall a better option, it's far from ideal but in today's MMO landscape - it's a necessity especially for major AAA titles that don't have a dedicated fanbase like Blizzard does
Not just "far from ideal" it turns those games into a parody of competitive gaming where a "win" is always suspect.
I understand your argument about the things companies feel they need to do to earn a sufficient amount of money, but the cost to the players is that the game becomes compromised.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Keller said: Say for example they add a mobile-phone slot to the equipment tab. You have to unlock that with pearls per character. Devs will say, get silver, because other players might sell it on the exchange. These things are already happened in Star Trek Online and Neverwinter and gear there only upgrades to tier 14. Rift is also a nice example from the top of my head. These micro-transaction don't scare the whales or "hardcore" players with enough time on their hands. You will loose the casual player who is forced to extra grind and doesn't have time to enjoy/play the real content.
I am truly trying hard to make any sense of what you said but I still cannot see your point.
Do you say that more emphasis on cash shop items will lead to more grind in the game?
GeezerGamer said: In MMOs Time does not equal money. Not by a long shot. Money is far far greater in value than Time, by huge amounts, so much so, that it's really not a valid comparison. Having an excess of time in online gaming has next to no value when compared to people who have money to burn. But you speak as if they are of equal value.
Ugh...this is not how it works.
The value of money to burn is directly determined by value of time of grinders.
It is grinders that are earning in-game currency. You cannot buy more in-game currency than grinders are willing to pay for cash shop items.
It is the market that controls the value of RL money. More cash shop items flooding the market means downward pressure on value of RL currency.
Simple supply and demand mechanism.
GeezerGamer said: I still think you are oversimplifying this. You also don't present the down side to this kind of business model change.
What downsides...?
Seems to me people here are trying very hard to come up with some but are unable to.
LacedOpium said: If you do not have the time to "invest" in a game in order to be competitive, then the common sense solution to that dilemma is to not play the game.
You know, it swings both ways.
If you do not have the money to "invest" in a game in order to be competitive, then the common sense solution to that dilemma is to not play the game.
Any competitive sport or endeavor does require money investment and games are no different.
This is awesome news, can finally buy stuff without spending a cent.
Kudos Kakao and PA - the NA version is finally moving closer to how KR is setup.
You know what I find funny about your post?
You are someone who has posted many times about your contempt for cheaters who use hacks and Daum's incompetence in eradicating those hacks and here you are praising a different thing that has essentially the same effect as hacks: allowing things external to the game itself to influence it in significant ways by providing a mechanism for people to buy their way into competitiveness.
It's no secret that I strongly dislike cash shops just as much as I dislike cheats. And I do so for similar reasons.
Competitive games are at their best when doing well or poorly at the competition is a function of how the player plays the same game that is available to everyone - not a game modified in your favor by either using hacks or throwing cash at it.
And I see very little difference in this respect, between throwing cash at a gold farmer/seller or at the company itself. Sure, when its the company itself doing it, they get increased revenues and presumably, that leads to better support of the game. But the integrity of the game itself is corrupted by allowing external factors to influence the competition.
I know the sub model is no longer in vogue but at least with that model, except for hacks, everyone had the same game to compete in.
You want to know what's been happening to MMORPGs and why they have lost the cache and popularity they once had? This is it right here: they've been cheapened by hackers, gold sellers and the companies themselves to the point where any kind of real honest competition in them exists only in the minds of the most naive.
I just have a very different opinion on what's been happening to MMORPGs - the majority playerbase has a very different lifestyle and way of playing online games today than 10+ years ago
Most gamers today are short on time - because there's so much more demanding player's attention today (from social media, to mobile to console, to steam etc...) - heck a lot of this didn't exist during Gen1 MMORPG time- and MMOs of old were all about crazy time investment - when I had no family back in 1999 and I had copious amounts of free time - I played EQ1 for at least 6+ hours every day, and usually 24+ hours every weekened - it was not healthy
The game pace was intentionally SLOW because the sub model is designed around keeping people playing for as long as possible.
Over time - majority has no desire to waste that much time online - sure minority hardcore players still play to very unhealthy amounts - but that's far from normal.
As more and more MMOs started to get released - playerbase grew and the trend started slowly shifting to shorter play session and more "instant" type content - where you know getting to a hunt spot didn't take 30min just to start playing.
Ultimately as MMO playerbase ballooned to tens of millions of players and the number of games ballooned to 100s of MMOs - they've been made more and more accessible and more and more for the short term crowd that sticks around for about 2-6 weeks before hopping on the next shiny.
What happened to MMORPGs - they became a huge business, they became mainstream, and they are catering to the a playerbase that has to split game time with social media/mobile/constant steam releases, console releases, etc....
Hackers - gold sellers, etc.... they are product of the crazy popularity and playerbase size, they are not cause of the current state IMO
You may be right about how the models evolved, time investment, etc. Still, the point is that the regard, or lack of, in which we hold these games has everything to do with whether we perceive them as having integrity.
And payment in lieu of time commitment doesn't really justify that they have allowed for the competitiveness of the game itself to be compromised. They can't be taken seriously if they encourage players to buy their way into competitiveness any more than if they turn a blind eye to hacks and cheaters.
I understand but without providing options of paying for fast-track to end game, the players who have the funds but lack time are simply excluded from participating.
This leads to loss of revenue as well as greater loss of players (than natural decline) over time - because over time new players who join the game a year or 2 post launch realize that the time investment required to catch up with those who played since launch is simply insurmountable.
This is why "pay to advance faster" is a great option both from a revenue standpoint ensuring developers get paid and game keeps getting updates and new players having a chance over time (also returning players) to catch up to veteran players.
Imo this is a better alternative to a game that simply dwindles and dies due to irreversible player decline and revenue loss that goes so low to where the game is no longer sustainable
So people who don't have time should be allowed to use money to influence their gameplay, but what about players who have neither much time nor lots of money to do that? Basically your saying that only people with money should be allowed special consideration?
Phry said: So people who don't have time should be allowed to use money to influence their gameplay, but what about players who have neither much time nor lots of money to do that? Basically your saying that only people with money should be allowed special consideration?
And what is wrong with that?
Much of self-entitlement, gaming is not a right, you know...
Even for you and your usual dribble, this one takes the cake... an mmorpg.com bonehead classic.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Gdemami said: The value of money to burn is directly determined by value of time of grinders.
No, it isn't. It's determined solely by what wealthy players are willing to pay.
In most games it's like this: On the money side, you have the wealthy people with large amounts of disposable income. On the time side, the value is set by the "professional" gold farmer accounts. Since these accounts are manned 24/7 in shifts, the value is constant and absolute, since it cannot be increased. It also means that no player can match it no matter how much they grind.
Converting wealthy disposable income to pay for what amounts to Asian "sweatshop's" hourly rates is a fortune by comparison. But turn that around the other way, and think about how much money per hour , by the wealthy gamer's standards, an Asian "sweatshop" is going to generate. It's laughable and yet this is exactly where the player for time is competing. It doesn't happen.
GeezerGamer said:
No, it isn't. It's determined solely by what wealthy players are willing to pay.
You have it backwards.
The ones paying are grinders - they are paying ingame money for cash shop items. It does not matter how much RL you got, grinders will decide how much money they give you for your cash shop item.
In fact, like I said before, more money you spent on cash shop, LESS ingame money you get.
Read more carefully please.
For the rest of the post, botting is entirely different topic.
Phry said: So people who don't have time should be allowed to use money to influence their gameplay, but what about players who have neither much time nor lots of money to do that? Basically your saying that only people with money should be allowed special consideration?
And what is wrong with that?
Much of self-entitlement, gaming is not a right, you know...
This is awesome news, can finally buy stuff without spending a cent.
Kudos Kakao and PA - the NA version is finally moving closer to how KR is setup.
This is one of the biggest loads of manure you have foisted on these forums in quite some time now! After all the subtle ways you have put down BDO, specifically it's massive grind. Now, you are now coming in here acting all thrilled about how you can get Cash Shop items through trade as if now having to add yet another massive grind just to catch a mouth full of "whale shit" is appealing to you?
This is just one big troll!
Umm what?
Selling cash shop items in AH for silver provides gearing alternatives that didn't exist before.
More choices = better
Pay to advance faster is a great option for the working gamer that has disposable income but limited time.
Also it will give a nice revenue bost to devs to keep development going
The only people who have a problem here are the flag waving "no p2w" players who believe that if someone doesn't have 16 hours to spend a day to gear up, it's their own fault - /facepalm
Not everyone has the same amount of free time nor disposable income.
Locking out entire segment of players who are willing to pay but don't have the time to play is absurd to me.
So silly - if you don't want to pay, just keep grinding like before - that options hasnt gone away.
Lots of folks got geared up through grind alone.
/shrug
But... but... if someone else can get gear like that, it diminishes their "grand" accomplishments!
Grind 16 hours a day or GTFO.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
It will be interesting to come back to this thread in a few months and see just how these "options" have benefited and the overall gaming experience for the player base as a whole.
It will be interesting to come back to this thread in a few months and see just how these "options" have benefited and the overall gaming experience for the player base as a whole.
There are plenty of games allowing cash shop items to be traded for in-game money and they have no issues because of that thus there is little reason to expect BDO would be different.
It will be interesting to come back to this thread in a few months and see just how these "options" have benefited and the overall gaming experience for the player base as a whole.
And how would you measure if it benefited the playerbase as a whole?
Just as they dictate Arcehage is a failure and nobody plays it and is dead?
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
It will be interesting to come back to this thread in a few months and see just how these "options" have benefited and the overall gaming experience for the player base as a whole.
And how would you measure if it benefited the playerbase as a whole?
Yep, we will see how this turns out. It is a shame. A revolutionary game with the life skills and seamless world. Good ole PA is gonna see this back fire. They won't see another cent from me.
This is awesome news, can finally buy stuff without spending a cent.
Kudos Kakao and PA - the NA version is finally moving closer to how KR is setup.
You know what I find funny about your post?
You are someone who has posted many times about your contempt for cheaters who use hacks and Daum's incompetence in eradicating those hacks and here you are praising a different thing that has essentially the same effect as hacks: allowing things external to the game itself to influence it in significant ways by providing a mechanism for people to buy their way into competitiveness.
It's no secret that I strongly dislike cash shops just as much as I dislike cheats. And I do so for similar reasons.
Competitive games are at their best when doing well or poorly at the competition is a function of how the player plays the same game that is available to everyone - not a game modified in your favor by either using hacks or throwing cash at it.
And I see very little difference in this respect, between throwing cash at a gold farmer/seller or at the company itself. Sure, when its the company itself doing it, they get increased revenues and presumably, that leads to better support of the game. But the integrity of the game itself is corrupted by allowing external factors to influence the competition.
I know the sub model is no longer in vogue but at least with that model, except for hacks, everyone had the same game to compete in.
You want to know what's been happening to MMORPGs and why they have lost the cache and popularity they once had? This is it right here: they've been cheapened by hackers, gold sellers and the companies themselves to the point where any kind of real honest competition in them exists only in the minds of the most naive.
I just have a very different opinion on what's been happening to MMORPGs - the majority playerbase has a very different lifestyle and way of playing online games today than 10+ years ago
Most gamers today are short on time - because there's so much more demanding player's attention today (from social media, to mobile to console, to steam etc...) - heck a lot of this didn't exist during Gen1 MMORPG time- and MMOs of old were all about crazy time investment - when I had no family back in 1999 and I had copious amounts of free time - I played EQ1 for at least 6+ hours every day, and usually 24+ hours every weekened - it was not healthy
The game pace was intentionally SLOW because the sub model is designed around keeping people playing for as long as possible.
Over time - majority has no desire to waste that much time online - sure minority hardcore players still play to very unhealthy amounts - but that's far from normal.
As more and more MMOs started to get released - playerbase grew and the trend started slowly shifting to shorter play session and more "instant" type content - where you know getting to a hunt spot didn't take 30min just to start playing.
Ultimately as MMO playerbase ballooned to tens of millions of players and the number of games ballooned to 100s of MMOs - they've been made more and more accessible and more and more for the short term crowd that sticks around for about 2-6 weeks before hopping on the next shiny.
What happened to MMORPGs - they became a huge business, they became mainstream, and they are catering to the a playerbase that has to split game time with social media/mobile/constant steam releases, console releases, etc....
Hackers - gold sellers, etc.... they are product of the crazy popularity and playerbase size, they are not cause of the current state IMO
I have almost no time to play anymore, and I hate F2P/Freemium pay models. I'm OK knowing that I won't be as good as others who play 12 hours a day. You play more you should be more powerful. A level playing field is having everything available in game without having to go to a cash shop to get it, and not being able to gear up from the cash shop to compete with all day gamers. It'll take me longer to get there, but I'll still get there. Viva la Sub-Model!
It will be interesting to come back to this thread in a few months and see just how these "options" have benefited and the overall gaming experience for the player base as a whole.
And how would you measure if it benefited the playerbase as a whole?
This is an obvious exploitative move and you are here talking it up like it's fair and equitable.
Comments
You are someone who has posted many times about your contempt for cheaters who use hacks and Daum's incompetence in eradicating those hacks and here you are praising a different thing that has essentially the same effect as hacks: allowing things external to the game itself to influence it in significant ways by providing a mechanism for people to buy their way into competitiveness.
It's no secret that I strongly dislike cash shops just as much as I dislike cheats. And I do so for similar reasons.
Competitive games are at their best when doing well or poorly at the competition is a function of how the player plays the same game that is available to everyone - not a game modified in your favor by either using hacks or throwing cash at it.
And I see very little difference in this respect, between throwing cash at a gold farmer/seller or at the company itself. Sure, when its the company itself doing it, they get increased revenues and presumably, that leads to better support of the game. But the integrity of the game itself is corrupted by allowing external factors to influence the competition.
I know the sub model is no longer in vogue but at least with that model, except for hacks, everyone had the same game to compete in.
You want to know what's been happening to MMORPGs and why they have lost the cache and popularity they once had? This is it right here: they've been cheapened by hackers, gold sellers and the companies themselves to the point where any kind of real honest competition in them exists only in the minds of the most naive.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
And payment in lieu of time commitment doesn't really justify that they have allowed for the competitiveness of the game itself to be compromised. They can't be taken seriously if they encourage players to buy their way into competitiveness any more than if they turn a blind eye to hacks and cheaters.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Say for example they add a mobile-phone slot to the equipment tab. You have to unlock that with pearls per character. Devs will say, get silver, because other players might sell it on the exchange. These things are already happened in Star Trek Online and Neverwinter and gear there only upgrades to tier 14. Rift is also a nice example from the top of my head. These micro-transaction don't scare the whales or "hardcore" players with enough time on their hands. You will loose the casual player who is forced to extra grind and doesn't have time to enjoy/play the real content.
But I really don't think we will ever agree that this isn't a good thing for the genre. So I'll just call it here.
Enough with the excuses.
There are many other ways in which your concerns regarding the granting of compensation for players with no time due to RL world responsibilities can be alleviated without having to bestow them with the ability to "buy" a competitive crutch against other players who have sacrificed and "invested" their time. Your time is no more important than theirs. If you do not have the time to "invest" in a game in order to be competitive, then the common sense solution to that dilemma is to not play the game.
What about the concerns of players regarding the watering down resulting in a lack of sense of accomplishment through exerted effort, skill, ability, and time invested to become the best? I mean, what's the use in playing a game when at the end of the line opponents can simply question your overall in game accomplishments and "ownage" over them as having had merely opened up your wallet and paid for that achievement and competitive edge?
A game that allows for the circumventing with money, of the effort required to compete, achieve, and become the best through honest to goodness effort, skill, ability, time invested, and perseverance is a game that is simply not worth playing.
I understand your argument about the things companies feel they need to do to earn a sufficient amount of money, but the cost to the players is that the game becomes compromised.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Do you say that more emphasis on cash shop items will lead to more grind in the game?
The value of money to burn is directly determined by value of time of grinders.
It is grinders that are earning in-game currency. You cannot buy more in-game currency than grinders are willing to pay for cash shop items.
It is the market that controls the value of RL money. More cash shop items flooding the market means downward pressure on value of RL currency.
Simple supply and demand mechanism.
What downsides...?
Seems to me people here are trying very hard to come up with some but are unable to.
If you do not have the money to "invest" in a game in order to be competitive, then the common sense solution to that dilemma is to not play the game.
Any competitive sport or endeavor does require money investment and games are no different.
Basically your saying that only people with money should be allowed special consideration?
Much of self-entitlement, gaming is not a right, you know...
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
In most games it's like this:
On the money side, you have the wealthy people with large amounts of disposable income.
On the time side, the value is set by the "professional" gold farmer accounts. Since these accounts are manned 24/7 in shifts, the value is constant and absolute, since it cannot be increased. It also means that no player can match it no matter how much they grind.
Converting wealthy disposable income to pay for what amounts to Asian "sweatshop's" hourly rates is a fortune by comparison. But turn that around the other way, and think about how much money per hour , by the wealthy gamer's standards, an Asian "sweatshop" is going to generate. It's laughable and yet this is exactly where the player for time is competing. It doesn't happen.
The ones paying are grinders - they are paying ingame money for cash shop items. It does not matter how much RL you got, grinders will decide how much money they give you for your cash shop item.
In fact, like I said before, more money you spent on cash shop, LESS ingame money you get.
Read more carefully please.
For the rest of the post, botting is entirely different topic.
Also, this change is very effective combatant of RMT via increased competition - players trading in-game makes strong pressure on their business.
Grind 16 hours a day or GTFO.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
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Joined - July 2004