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Top 10 Realism Features

AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,732
What features make the game seem more realistic as a fantasy environment? For me it's:

1. Weather;
2. Character is affected by weather (e.g., can see breath in cold air);
3. Sounds match the environment (walking in muddy earth sounds different than walking in leaves);
4. Footprints in sand, snow, mud, etc.;
5. Character is animated while idle (eyes look around, chest moves with breathing);
6. NPCs keep busy, and are not merely mannequins;
7. Breezes move tree limbs and foliage about;
8. Lots of little critters (birds, squirrels, moths, and such);
9. Towns have ambient sound appropriate to a populated area;
10. Detail in houses and stores, with curiosities to look at - not just an empty dwelling with a counter. 

I'm sure people can think of  more. And I'm equally sure some people feel such things are not important to them. 

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Comments

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,516
    edited August 2016
    I like all of those.

    Personally the realism I like best is that which relates to survival. Having to eat, drink and rest. The fact that it takes time to mend (downtime). I like things like impairment from falling from a height. Having to stay warm or cool. Darkness and needing to light your path or create a campfire to illuminate an area.

    One of the things I really like about Saga of Lucimia was the way darkness impairs your character. If you're running at night and get attacked, your inability to see effects the accuracy of your spells and melee attacks.

    They couldn't add enough of those features to Pantheon afaic.


  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,784

    Where mobs and creatures are spread out.  I hate congestion just because they like to make the worlds small.

    + everything on your list is nice too.

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,781
    Good interface.

    Nothing breaks the illusion of realism faster than having to play against interface limitations.
     
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,196
    I think it would be cool if vendors paid prices based on supply.  If people are farming the heck out of something the price goes down.  If you are the only one selling then the price goes up a bit.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,732
    svann said:
    I think it would be cool if vendors paid prices based on supply.  If people are farming the heck out of something the price goes down.  If you are the only one selling then the price goes up a bit.
    As an aside, I loved going "dumpster diving" in original EQ. The things you vendored stayed on merchant NPCs for quite a while, so that you could buy back what someone else sold. Sometimes you found real bargains!

    On the other hand, there was no rhyme or reason to the prices. Your epic sword may be worth a copper piece, while a bronze helm may get 20 plat. 

    It was a fun way to pass the time while you waited to hook up with friends. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • ThebeastttThebeasttt Member RarePosts: 1,130
    Amathe said:
    What features make the game seem more realistic as a fantasy environment? For me it's:

    1. Weather;
    2. Character is affected by weather (e.g., can see breath in cold air);
    3. Sounds match the environment (walking in muddy earth sounds different than walking in leaves);
    4. Footprints in sand, snow, mud, etc.;
    5. Character is animated while idle (eyes look around, chest moves with breathing);
    6. NPCs keep busy, and are not merely mannequins;
    7. Breezes move tree limbs and foliage about;
    8. Lots of little critters (birds, squirrels, moths, and such);
    9. Towns have ambient sound appropriate to a populated area;
    10. Detail in houses and stores, with curiosities to look at - not just an empty dwelling with a counter. 

    I'm sure people can think of  more. And I'm equally sure some people feel such things are not important to them. 
    You could have all this and still end up with a very inorganic game if it's heavily instanced with pink cash shop top hats on Ogre's and nonsensical game mechanics. 

    graphics /= realism
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,732
    Yeah that wasn"t on my list.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,277
    While all of those are good and promote immersion, @Amathe, but how does those features offset the rather immersion threatening features of mouse-look (shown in all game play videos to date) and every character having some kind of cosmetic pet (announced and apparently already developed).  Somehow, I just don't see the positives outweighing these specific negatives when it comes to realism / immersion.  If a game is going to ask me for a multi-year time commitment, then I want to be immersed in the game, not have the frayed edges detracting me at every step.  I don't define realism to be moving in one direction, while looking in a 360 arc around you.  I expect to play a character, not a camera.

    And dumpster diving was the original EQ art form.  It was easily the fastest and cheapest way to get obscure crafting components.  Let everyone who went through North Ro hunt those Armadillo parts for making those Armadillo Simmer Ales I enjoyed.  I may have even 'primed' the merchants, so I can find the parts I want easily.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • zanfirezanfire Member UncommonPosts: 951
    One thing that is a quick "well this sucks" for me is enemy placement/looks. I despise it when games try to make the low level mobs looks "cool" or over the top out the gate. I also hate that mob placement (especially in newer quest hubby mmos) mobs are just in little piles next to each other for the quests sake. Terra was a big offender for me when a bunch of bees where 2 feet from a bunch of giant mutants next to multi headed evil dogs right in the start zone. There is no build up or even a semblance of belonging to each area.

    FFXI when you go outside of Sandy (one of the starter citys) its a forest...and whats in the forest? well stuff that for the most part seems reasonable. worms, rabbits, some bats, crabs near the little pond and the orcs who live in the outpost in a zone next to it. Head to the dunes and some stuff comes over, but things like lizards near the back and where there is water you see lots of crabs, fish and dragon flys. Of course there was always some odd things but everything felt like it belonged in that area. You also didnt see giant crazy looking creatures until you went into the higher lvl areas, there was a build up of how it went from simple to more noticeably threatening as you went on. There will always be things that are out of place or reskins because it would be a ton of work to have every area be completely filled with unique mobs, but for baby jesus's sake at least try to make the world seem somewhat rational and natural. 

    Dont try to make everything epic and awesome right away to try and get people to stick around because that thrill of seeing crazy cool stuff will wear off quick.
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,196
    No no please dont emulate the shooter ideal of locking your eyes and body to one direction.  I like to be able to run and look over my shoulder.  In an mmo you should be able to turn your camera (eyes) independently of your body facing.  Hated that about eso and BDO.
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656
    edited August 2016
    I agree with your post, especially ambient sounds.  Ambient sounds are HUGE!  I always make them louder if it is an option.  I remember playing Baldur's Gate and Everquest Online Adventures - neither had music but both had amazing ambient sounds.  I would much rather a game have incredible ambient sounds than incredible music.

    My own one to add to the list:

    Player/npc animations (I know you already said idle animations!).  I loved that WoW animated your character when you spoke, I love that in ESO npcs accurately lip sync their words, I love how earings/robes/hair/everything animates in the breeze in FFXIV, I love how accurate a horse at full gallop looks in BDO.  All the little things really add up!
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 444
    edited August 2016
    Amathe said:
    What features make the game seem more realistic as a fantasy environment? For me it's:

    1. Weather;
    2. Character is affected by weather (e.g., can see breath in cold air);
    3. Sounds match the environment (walking in muddy earth sounds different than walking in leaves);
    4. Footprints in sand, snow, mud, etc.;
    5. Character is animated while idle (eyes look around, chest moves with breathing);
    6. NPCs keep busy, and are not merely mannequins;
    7. Breezes move tree limbs and foliage about;
    8. Lots of little critters (birds, squirrels, moths, and such);
    9. Towns have ambient sound appropriate to a populated area;
    10. Detail in houses and stores, with curiosities to look at - not just an empty dwelling with a counter. 

    I'm sure people can think of  more. And I'm equally sure some people feel such things are not important to them. 
    Far back as I can remember playing RPGs, "realism" for me almost always pertained to gameplay. But I also understood some abstraction has to be in the game, or I'd just be playing life. I guess everyone has a threshold and if it's passed then they don't like hte game anymore. This threshold isn't just in one particular place with varying sizes and the same shape, it's in many differnet places with many different shapes. However, there's an average area most people can be squished into. In my experience, I've usually liked the RPGs/MMORPGs which were unpopular or disliked--and usually it was disliked because of gameplay. Things like weight/encumberance, slow travel, death penalty, complicated and/or sandbox stats/skills, maze-like zones or dungeons, scattered (unorganized) progression, etc. I seem to like some penalites and confusion in games. Maybe that's the best way to describe "realism", as I know it. It's not a picnic.

    The things you list are still important to me, but not as. Similarly, graphics have never mattered a great deal to me. If I was trapped with only a computer, most of the games I'd like to have with me are older. I'd take Dwarf Fortress. Of course, these days you can use graphic sets which make even Dwarf Fortress look good.

    Don't take what I say the wrong way. It's just curious to me how the things you list are more about what the eyes see or thigns which're aesthetic.
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 444
    edited August 2016
    Dullahan said:
    I like all of those.

    Personally the realism I like best is that which relates to survival. Having to eat, drink and rest. The fact that it takes time to mend (downtime). I like things like impairment from falling from a height. Having to stay warm or cool. Darkness and needing to light your path or create a campfire to illuminate an area.

    One of the things I really like about Saga of Lucimia was the way darkness impairs your character. If you're running at night and get attacked, your inability to see effects the accuracy of your spells and melee attacks.

    They couldn't add enough of those features to Pantheon afaic.
    I'm in the same camp as you. And you talk of Saga of Lucimia like it's an old game. I think it's pre-alpha or something? The bunch making it are woefully unprepared, but don't many great games start small? And yet most MMO's die before they ever get out the door, so it's hard to have optimism in something so young.

    You interested in survival games by chance? I like those too. Like Unreal World or NEO Scavenger? I also think a lot of old RPGs (or games) accidentally fit into this category. I consider that a happy accident.

    I like Wurm ONline because it had many of these thigns I mention. It had day/night. It had slow travel. It had different terrain you had to navigate. It had seasons. It had corpse runs and stat loss (death penalty). It had FFA pvp servers. It had a giant half-believable map--Chaos. You had to earn things. No automatic targetting or radar. At first, you collided with trees. On and on. Despite all this, I think Wurm Online focuses perhaps too mcuh on the build/grind. It should have put more focus on the survival and melding it with the community so neither tears the other apart.

    OP, here's Wurm Online compared to your list:
    1. Weather - Check (admittedly i think the rain "storms" are too weak)
    2. Character is affected by weather (e.g., can see breath in cold air) - Partial Check (winter coats everything in white and fog makes thigns harder to see and so on)
    3. Sounds match the environment (walking in muddy earth sounds different than walking in leaves); - Check
    4. Footprints in sand, snow, mud, etc - Fail (there is a tracking skill however which shows if a player or creature has been in an area lately)
    5. Character is animated while idle (eyes look around, chest moves with breathing) - Partial Check (not sure actually but they probably do)
    6. NPCs keep busy, and are not merely mannequins; - Fail (fails badly)
    7. Breezes move tree limbs and foliage about; - Check (it moves smoke too--in the correct direction)
    8. Lots of little critters (birds, squirrels, moths, and such); - Check (lots of animals/fish and they migrate and breed.. and also ambient animations for birds and fish)
    9. Towns have ambient sound appropriate to a populated area; Check (everything a player does makes noise, so whatever you're doing is identifiable)
    10. Detail in houses and stores, with curiosities to look at - not just an empty dwelling with a counter. - Check - (Everythihg is player-made and usually things aren't empty)
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,452
    edited August 2016
    1 yes weather is nice if carries some meaning,MOST games it does not.
    2 Character affected by weather,again some what in some games but never fully done.
    3 proper sounds,yes seems most games or at least most big name games get it done right.
    4 footprints,yes again i have seen it a lot
    6 VERY tough to pull off,they end up doing some scripted sequence over and over and repeating the same lines over and over,your  not going to recreate human realism over 100's of npc's.
    7 No such thing as breezes or very unlikely,usually just animated trees/brush faking the breeze.
    8 Lots of critters...These would be objects,you can only put so many in your zone or will add to lag.
    9 towns or ANY proper ambient sounds.Yes most all notable games try to accomplish this,nobody does it well.
    10 buildings...This is one my biggest peeves,many cheap games,especially those KR or f2p games are just full of 2D structures,no insides,no not even a counter.

    Kind of funny how this thread sort of while missing TONS of game design,shows us how much work must go into making a triple A game.

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  • alakramalakram Member UncommonPosts: 2,292
    For me is:
    1-Character development not class based or classes are  open enought like in ESO.
    2-Player housing
    3-Mounts
    4-Boats
    5-Crafting is meaningfull
    6-Player cities
    7-Guild fortress / cities
    8-Terrain can be altered by players
    9-Weather affecting players
    10-World is seamless
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 444
    zanfire said:
    One thing that is a quick "well this sucks" for me is enemy placement/looks. I despise it when games try to make the low level mobs looks "cool" or over the top out the gate. I also hate that mob placement (especially in newer quest hubby mmos) mobs are just in little piles next to each other for the quests sake. Terra was a big offender for me when a bunch of bees where 2 feet from a bunch of giant mutants next to multi headed evil dogs right in the start zone. There is no build up or even a semblance of belonging to each area.

    *snip*
    Wow, great post!
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,516
    Dullahan said:
    I like all of those.

    Personally the realism I like best is that which relates to survival. Having to eat, drink and rest. The fact that it takes time to mend (downtime). I like things like impairment from falling from a height. Having to stay warm or cool. Darkness and needing to light your path or create a campfire to illuminate an area.

    One of the things I really like about Saga of Lucimia was the way darkness impairs your character. If you're running at night and get attacked, your inability to see effects the accuracy of your spells and melee attacks.

    They couldn't add enough of those features to Pantheon afaic.
    I'm in the same camp as you. And you talk of Saga of Lucimia like it's an old game. I think it's pre-alpha or something? The bunch making it are woefully unprepared, but don't many great games start small? And yet most MMO's die before they ever get out the door, so it's hard to have optimism in something so young.

    You interested in survival games by chance? I like those too. Like Unreal World or NEO Scavenger? I also think a lot of old RPGs (or games) accidentally fit into this category. I consider that a happy accident.

    I like Wurm ONline because it had many of these thigns I mention. It had day/night. It had slow travel. It had different terrain you had to navigate. It had seasons. It had corpse runs and stat loss (death penalty). It had FFA pvp servers. It had a giant half-believable map--Chaos. You had to earn things. No automatic targetting or radar. At first, you collided with trees. On and on. Despite all this, I think Wurm Online focuses perhaps too mcuh on the build/grind. It should have put more focus on the survival and melding it with the community so neither tears the other apart.
    Ya I probably shouldn't have said "was" but that's only because I haven't looked in on it in a while. They are a small outfit, largely working on the game part time (unless this has changed), but its coming along. I would rather see people who want to do something different with a real vision learning the development ropes rather than just another generic mainstream game. I hope they pull it off.

    I haven't played Wurm in a few years but last time I played it the game was in rough shape. At the time, the UI was more clunky and ineffective than UO or EQ, so it was really hard to get past for me.


  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Amathe said:
    What features make the game seem more realistic as a fantasy environment? For me it's:

    1. Weather;
    2. Character is affected by weather (e.g., can see breath in cold air);
    3. Sounds match the environment (walking in muddy earth sounds different than walking in leaves);
    4. Footprints in sand, snow, mud, etc.;
    5. Character is animated while idle (eyes look around, chest moves with breathing);
    6. NPCs keep busy, and are not merely mannequins;
    7. Breezes move tree limbs and foliage about;
    8. Lots of little critters (birds, squirrels, moths, and such);
    9. Towns have ambient sound appropriate to a populated area;
    10. Detail in houses and stores, with curiosities to look at - not just an empty dwelling with a counter. 

    I'm sure people can think of  more. And I'm equally sure some people feel such things are not important to them. 
    You could have all this and still end up with a very inorganic game if it's heavily instanced with pink cash shop top hats on Ogre's and nonsensical game mechanics. 

    graphics /= realism

    So is there a property or feature of Ogres that prevent them from wearing Pink Top Hats?  Is it the color? The fact that is a hat?  Perhaps something to do with Top Hats specifically? 

    Games of the imagination I say.  If you are going to go down the reality hole, you have to not put in artificial barriers like Ogres can't wear Pink Top Hats.
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  • DempseySR1979DempseySR1979 Member UncommonPosts: 9
    edited August 2016
    Mounts!  I hope Pantheon sticks to horses and jackasses or donkeys for pack mules.  You can have a lot of diversity with horses and ponies all the way to Clydesdales.  No crazy two tail helicopter bear mounts please.
  • BenjolaBenjola Member UncommonPosts: 843
    OP most of the featurers you mentioned are easy to implement but in many MMOs they aren't because they are resource hogs.
    Sure, when you are solo and not moving much it will look grand and all but add a raid force fighting a swarm of mobs or even a full group and your PC starts to struggle.
    Sorta like when you have shadows enabled on less then a high-end PC.

    The most important thing for me when I want realism is the combat flow and animations.
    Goes without saying that asian MMO type of flashy combat doesn't do it for me, but Age of Conan combat on other hand, looks pretty realistic and awesome.

    I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.

  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,276
    Actually:

    1. A great rulesystem and awesome content that causes massive immersion and makes me forget time
    2. A great rulesystem and awesome content that causes massive immersion and makes me forget time
    3. A great rulesystem and awesome content that causes massive immersion and makes me forget time
    4. A great rulesystem and awesome content that causes massive immersion and makes me forget time
    5. A great rulesystem and awesome content that causes massive immersion and makes me forget time
    6. A great rulesystem and awesome content that causes massive immersion and makes me forget time
    7. A great rulesystem and awesome content that causes massive immersion and makes me forget time
    8. A great rulesystem and awesome content that causes massive immersion and makes me forget time
    9. A great rulesystem and awesome content that causes massive immersion and makes me forget time
    10. A great rulesystem and awesome content that causes massive immersion and makes me forget time

    And if thats not present, I dont friggin care about pure decorations such as a weather system.

    Good graphics maybe last a couple hours, after tha the effect wears off. If the game can then not manage to keep you interested with good challenging gameplay, absolutely nothing helps.














    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,732
    Benjola said:
    OP most of the featurers you mentioned are easy to implement but in many MMOs they aren't because they are resource hogs.
    Sure, when you are solo and not moving much it will look grand and all but add a raid force fighting a swarm of mobs or even a full group and your PC starts to struggle.
    Sorta like when you have shadows enabled on less then a high-end PC.

    The most important thing for me when I want realism is the combat flow and animations.
    Goes without saying that asian MMO type of flashy combat doesn't do it for me, but Age of Conan combat on other hand, looks pretty realistic and awesome.
    I understand your point. So I will have to rely on the Devs to determine how much is too much. 

    That said, you can almost always scale your individual settings down. If fact WoW has a very cool feature where you can save two graphics settings - regular and raid - so your computer automatically switches between the two. *Looks at VR - hint, hint*

    Also, original EQ had a lot of those features. So I think they could be recaptured. 

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  • BenjolaBenjola Member UncommonPosts: 843
    It's not settings problem.
    The highest end CPU and GPU can't run a MMO that looks like a Single player game (graphics wise) , that's why MMOs don't look as real as SPGs.
    So theres no reason to put them in a MMO when nobody can really enjoy them.

    I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,174
    Characters need to eat, rest and sleep. 

    Characters get physically exhausted after a long fight or sprinting, swimming etc... anything that is physically tasking

    No swimming in full plate armor or chain armor

    Hypothermia and heat stroke - it's a thing 

    Diseases - would affect your character in various ways depending on severity 

    Combat injuries - severity would determine impact 

    All gear has finite durability, that amazing item you have will break eventually 

    All characters have a finite lifespan, same with normal "living" NPCs

    Faction for everything and everyone - killing anything would lower one faction and raise another. You could never be friendly with all.

    Every perk or racial trait has downsides as well, every action has a consequence - so every choice has a meaning

    Risk takers have much to lose but also much to gain if successful 

    Death has a sting, repeated death will weaken you and after many repeats = permanent character retirement 

    Just some that come off the top of my head - not sure that it could be implemented in a way that would be fun to play for more than a handful of diehards though


  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,732
    DMKano said:

    Faction for everything and everyone - killing anything would lower one faction and raise another. You could never be friendly with all.

    @DMKano, you might enjoy a quote from a friend of mine in original EQ: "Anything that likes me in this game - just means I haven't killed enough of them yet." 

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