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Has CCP business-plan become one of profiteering off paranoia, greed and malevolence?

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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,723
    Bitter vet.....moving on. Cya in game.
    Do you think he has played the game for more than a week, or better - ever?
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,281
    edited July 2016
    Gdemami said:
    Bitter vet.....moving on. Cya in game.
    Do you think he has played the game for more than a week, or better - ever?
    Was hard to say, he seems to cite things he's read about rather than actually experienced.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SoaringBarnacleSoaringBarnacle Member UncommonPosts: 34
    > b...bu...but you cannot say that about our favorite sociopathy simulator! have you ever played it?

    Did it all except incursions because catering to tryhards is not my idea of fun

    I especially enjoyed the corps trying to get into the reverse safari game
    Also WH neckbeards organizing a massive ship theft in their ship arrays, one week after each recruitment drives... using a recenty recruited alt of some corp officer...

    Just like griefers forced UO to be trammelized so normal players would not be cheesed and ganked until they unsubscribe, EvE Schadenfreude harvesters have dug their own grave: at some point they're gonna be the only ones left with the RMTers

    Who then is gonna be unwary prey (you don't expect sociopathic meta in a MMO)? who is gonna buy PLEX with RL money?

    This game has become a scam

    Don't call it a wasteland, this is the future you chose
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,507
    edited July 2016
    2007 player here.

    Complained many times on official forums about bot and multi accounts / isboxers ruining industry and mining.

    How can someone think buy more accounts  is a valid answer for a problem is beyond me. I don't want to shove more money on the game so I can compete. My skills, both social aspects and to handle time costs and calculations, should be the winning factor in a game.

    I lost the count of how many swearing I got. For real. Do you think moba forums are toxic? Try to confront the actual state of the game there.

    Now isbox and bots are being hunted down. Thanks CCP for all those years ignoring solo players like me.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297
    Oh boy did I hit home


    "Once the general public knew what this psychotic asshole was doing, there was an outcry to ban him, and CCP did just that."

    Yes, after Ripard Teg churned up, very rightfully, a shitstorm
    Otherwise Erotica1 and his buttbuddies would have kept on, as they had been doing for a while
    Do you think they were never reported previously, down to the very details of their psychological manipulation? kek

    As someone who is in a position to know, you're wrong about this. Ripard didn't flag this particular issue to CCP; if anything it was the other way around: they came to us.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297
    Seems like you're the angry one yelling abuse and calling names here, yet somehow I'm the toxic one. What's with that?

    I stood up for the accused's right to be treated fairly according to CCP's rules, rather than "trial by the mob" because I was most concerned to make sure that "A bunch of guys are yelling about stuff, unleash the banhammer" did not become a metagame tool, or worse yet, an open door for all sorts of unpleasant people to enforce their version of morality on the game.

    And in the end, CCP were scrupulously fair in the application of their rules. The fact that several individuals employed by CCP were disgusted by what erotica1 did was not as such a decisive factor, and I am glad of that. He was banned for breaking several well-established rules.

    And then - this is the part that you have for some reason forgotten - I stood up for CCP's right to enforce those rules, and also defended the guiding philosophy behind them.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=333151

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • Quazal.AQuazal.A Member UncommonPosts: 858
    Myria said:
    Wraithone said:
    Welcome to EVE... ^^ There are two rules that anyone who has played for awhile remembers.  Rule One, Trust No One.  Rule Two, Never fly what you can't afford to replace.  Keep those in mind, and your EVE experience will be much less painful.
    Rule One is Eve's biggest problem, IMHO.

    Even more than most MMOs, Eve is boring as hell to play solo for any extended period of time.

    Can i just say to this, for last 5 years, ive been in a solo corporation, however, that doesn't mean i play solo, i have a fairly sizeable group of players i socialise with (in game) things like Bombers Bar, where solo guys can join together and go bomb some crap ;)

    Yes its a MMO but that doesn't mean you need other players to have your own fun with.... i log in daily (work allowing) its a game i cant put down, i have tried going cold turkey, usually get a month-8 weeks then have to go back... 

    Love the game, but a fanboy im not, i see its 'darker' side, but then again i see the lighter / friendlier side.

    This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
    Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656
    edited August 2016
    I think CCP needs to stop catering to their nullsec crowd, as that group just wants to consume all other players.  That said, it may already be too late.  EVE has a well deserved reputation for being an unregulated scheming hive of metagaming, and that is by far what it does the best.  People do not get hooked on EVE because of the spaceships, the lore, or the combat - they get hooked by the glorious schemes that they hear of, the potential to think up the next one, and the intrigue that comes with the metagaming.

    Unfortunately, this kind of thing left unchecked is unpleasant at best, and a vile cesspool of griefing at worst.  I don't think it can survive by attempting to continue to appeal to the dwindling dedicated vets.  EVE needs to start appealing to PvE players and noobs.  Right now it is a game of predators that has exhausted their supply of prey.  After years of catering to nullsec, catering to pvp fanatics, and catering to griefers, CCP needs to start catering to the prey.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,775
    edited August 2016
    Myria said:
    Wraithone said:
    Welcome to EVE... ^^ There are two rules that anyone who has played for awhile remembers.  Rule One, Trust No One.  Rule Two, Never fly what you can't afford to replace.  Keep those in mind, and your EVE experience will be much less painful.
    Rule One is Eve's biggest problem, IMHO.

    Even more than most MMOs, Eve is boring as hell to play solo for any extended period of time.

    While in the many years I've played Eve on-and-off (mostly off, but, oddly, it's one I go back to a few times every year) I've never actually been killed by another player and only been shot at once (near a newbie station early on, the person firing on me was obliterated before I'd figured out what the hell was going on), I've seen more than enough stupid crap, assholery, obvious scam attempts, and just general idiocy to convince me that rule one is best, only, followed by having nothing whatsoever to do with anyone else in that game.

    Trust no one being the cardinal rule of a game mostly dependent on playing with others for fun is pretty much what leads to the kind of community Eve has. Sadly, CCP is so beholden to said community that at this point there's nothing they can do to fix it, so... Meh. Any snake that eats its own tail is eventually going to run out of tail. It's pretty clear CCP knows that,  but their efforts to start something else have no far been pretty pathetic.

    As for Rule Two, it is what always makes me shake my head when CCP gives out a special edition/anniversary/or what have you ships. I have a bunch of them in various hangers, which they'll never leave. They can't be replaced and, because of that, flying one is the equivalent of wearing a "Kick Me!" sign. Really, what's the point? Eternal ship spinning seems a sad fate for some of 'em.
    I don't think Rule Number one is Eve's biggest problem. It's his last statement that is.
    "Keep those in mind, and your EVE experience will be much less painful."
    So, I should expect to have a painful experience playing EVE?
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,723
    edited August 2016
    Baitness said:
    I think CCP needs to stop catering to their nullsec crowd, as that group just wants to consume all other players.  That said, it may already be too late.  EVE has a well deserved reputation for being an unregulated scheming hive of metagaming, and that is by far what it does the best.  People do not get hooked on EVE because of the spaceships, the lore, or the combat - they get hooked by the glorious schemes that they hear of, the potential to think up the next one, and the intrigue that comes with the metagaming.

    Unfortunately, this kind of thing left unchecked is unpleasant at best, and a vile cesspool of griefing at worst.  I don't think it can survive by attempting to continue to appeal to the dwindling dedicated vets.  EVE needs to start appealing to PvE players and noobs.  Right now it is a game of predators that has exhausted their supply of prey.  After years of catering to nullsec, catering to pvp fanatics, and catering to griefers, CCP needs to start catering to the prey.
    Next step is actually playing(and understanding) the game you rant about...
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,723
    GeezerGamer said:
    I don't think Rule Number one is Eve's biggest problem. It's his last statement that is.
    "Keep those in mind, and your EVE experience will be much less painful."
    So, I should expect to have a painful experience playing EVE?
    If you expect standard MMO stereotypes, yes, your experience will be likely painful.

    That is all the message is telling.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Sometimes, when i read about all these horrible things about Eve and how bad the community is, i have to wonder if perhaps i am playing on a different server entirely, as the game i play is so very different to theirs.
    One thing i am very glad of though, is that the Eve i play, is a completely different game, with much better people in it, i'd hate to have to play in the game they are talking about O.o
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,403
    I did beta this a very long time ago but have never played the live game. 

    I have read a lot about the things that go on and even if those terrible reports are far and few it made my flesh crawl. I am not even sure if I would enjoy this game given that I like to look at my character and since this is a ship there is that. Even more so I am afraid I will become a victim and I seldom play any PvP game where I cannot avoid the PvP or the PvP will not have any impact on me  like Black Desert which I am currently playing.

    Still from all the stuff I have read about EvE I really feel some of the reputation it has managed to earn must have some truth in it somewhere. Any way it seems to have a fan base and I think that any game that has managed to build a loyal fan base must be doing something right.
    image
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656
    edited August 2016
    Gdemami said:
    Baitness said:
    I think CCP needs to stop catering to their nullsec crowd, as that group just wants to consume all other players.  That said, it may already be too late.  EVE has a well deserved reputation for being an unregulated scheming hive of metagaming, and that is by far what it does the best.  People do not get hooked on EVE because of the spaceships, the lore, or the combat - they get hooked by the glorious schemes that they hear of, the potential to think up the next one, and the intrigue that comes with the metagaming.

    Unfortunately, this kind of thing left unchecked is unpleasant at best, and a vile cesspool of griefing at worst.  I don't think it can survive by attempting to continue to appeal to the dwindling dedicated vets.  EVE needs to start appealing to PvE players and noobs.  Right now it is a game of predators that has exhausted their supply of prey.  After years of catering to nullsec, catering to pvp fanatics, and catering to griefers, CCP needs to start catering to the prey.
    Next step is actually playing(and understanding) the game you rant about...
    As I told you last time, I played for over a year.  Pretending the game is fine is only going to hurt it more.  The new player and pve player experience need to be fixed.  It is plain as day to anybody at all familiar with the game.

    The last time EVE had average daily players as low as they are this year was back in 2007.  The past 3 months are as low as 2006, when they had 100k to 150k total subs.  That number is still going down.  Look for yourself: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

    The people pretending there is not a problem are not helping.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,076
    If you want game developers to aggressively protect you from having to deal with other players, then EVE isn't for you.  Have you looked into single player games lately?

    Granted, EVE does take allowing players to grief each other and work things out amongst themselves further than most MMORPGs, even.  But why shouldn't there be any games that allow that?
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,723
    Baitness said:
    As I told you last time, I played for over a year.  Pretending the game is fine is only going to hurt it more.  The new player and pve player experience need to be fixed.  It is plain as day to anybody at all familiar with the game.

    The last time EVE had average daily players as low as they are this year was back in 2007.  The past 3 months are as low as 2006, when they had 100k to 150k total subs.  That number is still going down.  Look for yourself: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

    The people pretending there is not a problem are not helping.
    I was never denying declining population nor pretending there are no issues. No idea where do you get that.

    That however, does not make you right about anything you said.
  • Quazal.AQuazal.A Member UncommonPosts: 858
    tbh ive heard the term "EvE is dying" since about 2009.... and heck it cant be far from the most used line on tranquility at times..... 


    This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
    Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,723
    Quazal.A said:
    tbh ive heard the term "EvE is dying" since about 2009.... and heck it cant be far from the most used line on tranquility at times.....
    To be fair, EVE wasn't losing players back in 2009....
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656
    edited August 2016
    Gdemami said:
    Baitness said:
    As I told you last time, I played for over a year.  Pretending the game is fine is only going to hurt it more.  The new player and pve player experience need to be fixed.  It is plain as day to anybody at all familiar with the game.

    The last time EVE had average daily players as low as they are this year was back in 2007.  The past 3 months are as low as 2006, when they had 100k to 150k total subs.  That number is still going down.  Look for yourself: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

    The people pretending there is not a problem are not helping.
    I was never denying declining population nor pretending there are no issues. No idea where do you get that.

    That however, does not make you right about anything you said.

     If you are aware there is a problem with the game causing it to lose players, you have an odd way of showing it.  Things you have said to me about EVE any time I wrote about it:

    Gdemami said:
    It is not the game, it is you....
    Baitness said:
    Gdemami said:
    Baitness said:
    Me and 1.5 million players per year apparently, not including any vets they lose.
    1.5M? There are tens of millions who do not play EVE!

    Fail math is fail...
    ...DID YOU READ THE LINK?  It says 1.5 million people tried eve in just the past year alone, 51% quit after two hours, and obviously they didn't retain the rest.
    Gdemami said:
    Take an example of the guy above.

    He jumps into a game and immediate response is: bad quest, crappy combat, awful controls.

    That is a first impression.


     Things you said just in this topic alone to anybody that is unhappy with the current state of EVE:
    Gdemami said:
    Do you think he has played the game for more than a week, or better - ever?
    Gdemami said:
    Next step is actually playing(and understanding) the game you rant about...
    Gdemami said:
    No, it would only imply that it is just your opinion and same statement can be applied to any game - like I said, false premise.


    As for the rest of your post...eh...goes in line with your (repeated) fallacy quoted above...

    It seems like you just want to discredit anybody that says anything negative about EVE. But yeah, I am glad you are now finally aware that EVE has a problem and is losing players.
    Post edited by Baitness on
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,723
    Baitness said:
     If you are aware there is a problem with the game causing it to lose players, you have an odd way of showing it.  Things you have said to me about EVE any time I wrote about it:
    I am not saying what you think I am saying.

    My first post in that thread:
    Gdemami said:
    The actually depressing is that "thing" that is supposed to be a tutorial...
    However, I also explained why that is unlikely a problem(same post you quoted and deliberately cut out):
    Gdemami said:
    Take an example of the guy above.

    He jumps into a game and immediate response is: bad quest, crappy combat, awful controls.

    That is a first impression.

    Anything passed that does not matter, you cannot change how missions, combat or controls work and if first impression isn't making him interested into a game, it does not make him interested into learning about the game either.

    Just read his reply - still unwilling to learn, still blaming the game instead of acknolweding simple fact that the game is not for him.

    Clear demonstration of new player behavior that goes with any game.

    The complexity and differentness of the game aren't the primary deciding factor when it comes to new player retention.
    That means, despite how awful New Player Experience might seem, it isn't a factor - you are turned off by "core features" of the game and that is something no tutorial can fix.


    While we might come to same conclusion, it is due very different reasons. Your reasons are off, you are just ranting about the game you know very little about(wish I know how to put it more politely).

    With no offense but you are either just blindly parroting some stuff you heard or make some wild assumptions.

    If you are interested into a game, PM and I will make a trial account tomorrow and show you the ropes, atm I am uncertain about my schedule for next week unfortunately.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,723
    edited August 2016
    Baitness said:
    What do you think it is that is causing them to lose players?
    Like I said many times before, imo it is lack of game growth. There is no vision for the game.
    Gdemami said:
    The point is, there is no vision for the game.

    The game isn't heading into any specific direction, it isn't being expanded. The last expansive content were Wormholes and Planet Interaction but that was already "tainted with lack of vision".

    Since Incarna, CCP is mostly doing reworks and adding trinkets.

    And:
    Gdemami said:
    The halt in expanding EVE(Incarna in summer 2011 being the last "expansion") predates failures of other ventures.

    One could argue that the changes within CCP can be tracked even few years earlier.

    Through release in 2003 to 2007 the game was being updated twice a year and the core game features were rolling in at uprecedent pace.

    In 2008 when Icelandic financial crisis hit, things had changed.

    2008 fall expansion was merely scrapped and 3 following expansions were dreadful releases - lots of poorly tested/thought out changes changes/new features that needed lots of work and overhaul afterwards. The quality of releases took very steep downhill.

    Incursion expansion in fall 2010 was very solid but what followed was abysmall disaster.

    Incarna, albeit very light in content was good expansion, unfortunately incredibly poorly executed - lots of technical difficulties, very poor communication, it was plain chaos. Since then it was just overhauls, tweaks and shit load of "new shiney".

    EVE has changed, that isn't inheritedly bad, but it apparently does not work for last 5 years.
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656
    edited August 2016
    Gdemami said:
    Baitness said:
     If you are aware there is a problem with the game causing it to lose players, you have an odd way of showing it.  Things you have said to me about EVE any time I wrote about it:
    I am not saying what you think I am saying.

    My first post in that thread:
    Gdemami said:
    The actually depressing is that "thing" that is supposed to be a tutorial...
    However, I also explained why that is unlikely a problem(same post you quoted and deliberately cut out):
    Gdemami said:
    Take an example of the guy above.

    He jumps into a game and immediate response is: bad quest, crappy combat, awful controls.

    That is a first impression.

    Anything passed that does not matter, you cannot change how missions, combat or controls work and if first impression isn't making him interested into a game, it does not make him interested into learning about the game either.

    Just read his reply - still unwilling to learn, still blaming the game instead of acknolweding simple fact that the game is not for him.

    Clear demonstration of new player behavior that goes with any game.

    The complexity and differentness of the game aren't the primary deciding factor when it comes to new player retention.
    That means, despite how awful New Player Experience might seem, it isn't a factor - you are turned off by "core features" of the game and that is something no tutorial can fix.


    While we might come to same conclusion, it is due very different reasons. Your reasons are off, you are just ranting about the game you know very little about(wish I know how to put it more politely).

    With no offense but you are either just blindly parroting some stuff you heard or make some wild assumptions.

    If you are interested into a game, PM and I will make a trial account tomorrow and show you the ropes, atm I am uncertain about my schedule for next week unfortunately.
    While I appreciate the offer, I am well aware how to play.  As I have told you 3 times now I have played for over a year.  I am not blindly parroting anything, I experienced it all myself.  I cut off what you wrote there because it was just more dismissing someone with an opinion different then yours and (incorrectly) claiming they were all new to the game.

    Also, I am not the only one with this opinion.  Just yesterday there was a reddit thread about how PvE needs to be addressed to save the rest of the game, where CSM member Jin'taan agrees with exactly what I wrote here.
     https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4waisl/the_importance_of_pve/

    Since we agree the game has a problem, but disagree on what it is, perhaps you could explain what you think it is causing the game to lose players so rapidly?
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,723
    edited August 2016
    Baitness said:
    perhaps you could explain what you think it is causing the game to lose players so rapidly?
    Urm, I just did in post above...?

    Also, the decline isn't rapid, it is slow stagnation to decline since about 2011.

    Note: Play time does not ensure knowledge....your choice.
  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,614

    Old 2003 player here. Short story long, New Eden started to become less immersive and more grief-friendly around 2006 onwards. Remember Lofty29? yeah that guy, who pretended he wanted to help PvEers and just griefed them. Took a while before CCP added a warning when forming a fleet... this downright POS of an online gamer was the first hero of the Schadenfreude-harvesting griefers, who recently revered Erotica1.

    Did CCP watch all the griefers getting secondary accounts to meta-game the game? Infiltration, false friendship (lonely nerds are gullible) and then stealing the mark's assets, pretending to help while waiting to grief, scamming, impersonating etc. "Power of 2"...

    Let's cut to the chase Paranoia: you need multiple accounts to put eyes in neighboring systems, whether you are a lowsec/0.0 carebear or an edgy gatecamper

    Greed: just read that some guy has a 200+ SP account farming operation going on, and that players routinely know others who have a couple dozens

    Malevolence: see second paragraph

    This game has become a cesspool of sociopaths and their masochist prey, and they all need multiple accounts (at least two in total, so to scout). CCP coddles griefing, as it brings a lot of revenue in the form of secondary accounts (and remember that PLEXes are bought anyway at some point)






    'I agree.

    CCP should add pink elves and green orcs, cute pets, epic mountsto the game.
    Not to forget exclamation marks above targets, call missions quests from now on, remove FFA looting, damage on ships, the big universe, introduce 1 level based path, remove scamming, remove the requirement for players to think for themselves and hold their hands from start to finish.

    Nerf PVE so you can fight a trillion targets in PVE but not go below 90% health, all skills at lvl 5 in 1 day, wait, even better: if a person kills you twice in PVP you can report him for griefing.'



    And now cut the BS:

    In short, OP: I am a 2003 player for real. You most definately are not.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

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