This is why p2p games like XIV should not have that massive cash shops they do, it's only a matter of time before they go full p2w as it is in china and sell gold directly.
This is why p2p games like XIV should not have that massive cash shops they do, it's only a matter of time before they go full p2w as it is in china and sell gold directly.
Sorry, not buying what your selling, say whatever you like about FFXIV but they don't have a massive cash shop, and what is in the cash shop is just a few costumes and minions, you can't buy anything in the cash shop that gives you even a marginal advantage over others, even if you buy a mount in the cash shop, you can't use it until you have unlocked mounts in game, so you don't even get mounts quicker than people who don't buy it in the cash shop.
This is why p2p games like XIV should not have that massive cash shops they do, it's only a matter of time before they go full p2w as it is in china and sell gold directly.
Yeah, I think XIV's cash shop is actually pretty pathetic as far as these things go. That's a really bad example to use.
@DMKano how is that a fallacy? Which fallacy did I commit?
You equated 24 hours in a day as being validation for every player having equivalent time to devote to playing online games.
You are using a fact (24 huours in a day) for a false conclusion = equal free time to game for all players.
Obviously every player has a different amount of time to devote to online games depending on their work, family and other RL responsibilities
And because they do its totally okay for those with more money than others to use that advantage in any way they want. Tbh its that kind of thinking that imo represents the very worst factors of some online games.
For the PvP I feel bad for you guys. Well @ 70 million a costume I am probably better off at just collecting the pearl shop coins to purchase the same with just playing daily. I have no issues with the game but it would sadden me to see people leave as it would mean less activity on the streets and roads where the wagons ride.
This is why p2p games like XIV should not have that massive cash shops they do, it's only a matter of time before they go full p2w as it is in china and sell gold directly.
Why don't you just give up this crusade against FFXIV . It is sad at this point and mostly anyone who are on these forums know your agenda, "massive" my foot.
For the PvP I feel bad for you guys. Well @ 70 million a costume I am probably better off at just collecting the pearl shop coins to purchase the same with just playing daily. I have no issues with the game but it would sadden me to see people leave as it would mean less activity on the streets and roads where the wagons ride.
I hope they rethink this.
Well, if the costumes do sell for that much, it would mean that a single TET weapon would cost around £200.00 and a full set of armour around another £600-£700 with the trinkets - rings, necklaces, etc. adding pretty much the same again. A full set of high end gear could technically be purchased for around £2000.00 and all you need to be to use it, is level 8.
I agree with DMkano it is the huge disparity between the higher enhanced equipment that is the real issue which is a flaw in the PvP system. This type of disparity can be easily exploited with money if the disparity did not exist there would not be a problem.
PvP players should not support a game which has this type of disparity because it does not depend on skill . Every game that has this type of system should not be supported from the get go, you should not play the game at all if you are a serious PvPer.
This is why GW2 does not have an issue with the money for gold exchange because there is not a huge disparity in that game. It is much more fairer to PvPers.
The real problem in BDO is a huge power gap that +20 gear provides *this is the real problem*
No, I think P2W is the real problem. Thanks for playing, though.
Hah ok. So imagine they equalized gear for PvP so that enhancment level didn't matter - this would put a +20 on equal footing with a +15 for example.
Yeah.
Thanks for ignoring the culprit of the actual imbalance
Yeah, but see, you're imagining a world where Daum isn't attempting to directly profit from a sinister design fully of their own making. I assume that the people are the top are pretty stupid: after all, they're successfully burning down any hope for the future for what is certain to be a very short-lived cash grab. However, something I do not do is underestimate their greed - their plans from the get-go were to lie, farm Americans and western Europeans for their buy-in dollars, then turn around and nail them with P2W.
The evil here is the P2W, because the game was functioning up until now. I didn't like it, but BDO had some fairly easy-to-grasp 'rules' regarding how P2W it could get (or, folks imagines it did), and people who were happy with them weren't leaping like lemmings over a cliff face like they are now. So it's possible to imagine that Black Desert could have just kept chugging along like it was indefinitely - ergo, the 'true evil' was not the +15 +20 whatever system; it was Daum's plan to bend its collective western player base over and get them coming and going.
It is amazing that many of the posters here was saying that "it is journey that matters" just a few weeks ago and now all that matters to them is that someone will get a +15 gear 1 month before them. Ohhh western gamers, there are no bigger musical chair in this world than your ever changing minds...
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
It is amazing that many of the posters here was saying that "it is journey that matters" just a few weeks ago and now all that matters to them is that someone will get a +15 gear 1 month before them. Ohhh western gamers, there are no bigger musical chair in this world than your ever changing minds...
I know that this is very hard to understand, since many youths - likely including yourself - lack both principles and scruples. But not everyone else does. Even to the most diehard devotee, some things are worth quitting over.
It is amazing that many of the posters here was saying that "it is journey that matters" just a few weeks ago and now all that matters to them is that someone will get a +15 gear 1 month before them. Ohhh western gamers, there are no bigger musical chair in this world than your ever changing minds...
I know that this is very hard to understand, since many youths - likely including yourself - lack both principles and scruples. But not everyone else does. Even to the most diehard devotee, some things are worth quitting over.
I've no intention of trying to compete with others in a game thats dominated by wallet warriors. Its not so much a matter of principle, though there is one, but that wallet warriors tend to be the worst types of people, they have to be better than others, regardless of personal merit, and the ego's involved of those who think that money can buy them anything, and in P2W games it frequently does, is beyond reprehensible, i'd rather leave a game i love to play than engage with those types, on any level.
@DMKano how is that a fallacy? Which fallacy did I commit?
You equated 24 hours in a day as being validation for every player having equivalent time to devote to playing online games.
You are using a fact (24 hours in a day) for an erroneous conclusion = equal free time to game for all players.
Obviously every player has a different amount of time to devote to online games depending on their work, family and other RL responsibilities
That's not a fallacy. I didn't said that, that's your (quite convenient) interpretation of it. Everyone get's the same time and your life goes around where you spend it (or not).
I don't think anyone is slave, at least I hope so, and your daily activities are result of your choices and yours to blame. Don't push your agenda like that, it's a disrespect to whatever tasks, job, or social activities you have. If you don't have time to do whatever thing it is, that's your problem. If you have some sort of health problem I'm sorry. If you see your daily activities as a burden and not something you want to do then I don't see the point of this conversations. Since you enjoy them, not playing something shouldn't bother you - if you don't, that's up to you and your life planning.
I just don't see how an option to power-through the game using purchasable advantages because of your problems (or other people like you) is by any means fair to every other player on said game. I'm not that selfish.
Ohh so now we are talking about fairness? Is BDO a fair game by design? How someone getting more stats on level up by sheer luck fair for others who got less? How someone getting a better horse on breeding is fair to others who also bred the same horse? Stop being naive. You guys who are complaining about pay2win has never played a real pay2win game.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
For the PvP I feel bad for you guys. Well @ 70 million a costume I am probably better off at just collecting the pearl shop coins to purchase the same with just playing daily. I have no issues with the game but it would sadden me to see people leave as it would mean less activity on the streets and roads where the wagons ride.
I hope they rethink this.
Well, if the costumes do sell for that much, it would mean that a single TET weapon would cost around £200.00 and a full set of armour around another £600-£700 with the trinkets - rings, necklaces, etc. adding pretty much the same again. A full set of high end gear could technically be purchased for around £2000.00 and all you need to be to use it, is level 8.
That is not to bad for a fully geared. I think in Vindictus I threw about that much at runes to get all +15.
Everybody has the same amount of time in a day because the numbers of hours is a known finite number that can be put into certain task. You can put less, it's up to you, not more.
The same can't be said about money.
If you get 2 person of irrelevant race, gender, in same overall health quality and place them in a room with the same clothes and same computer they can spend the same amount of hours per day playing a game which is 24. If you take the controlled space out the amount of hours persist. It is the amount of hours in a day.
As I said, if your share of the hours is spent on something else that's up to you.
You are stating that the responsibility for you spending your time on something else is not yours. Man, it's your life, get your shit together.
Can we talk about reality here for a second - as in how real people actually play?
A family man with 2 kids and a wife who is the sole breadwinner and works full time - won't have the same amount of time as a teenager who lives with his parents and is on summer break.
The responsibility of a working man is to take care of his family - are you saying he should abandon them so he can spend more time gaming?
That's what you call "getting your shit" together?
What people are looking for is an even playing field in game mechanics that more prosperous members of society cannot benefit (overwhelmingly) from. We already face gross inequalities in our real lives - the rich lord over us like kings, flying hither and thither in private jets; spending months exploring rugged coastlines from mega yachts; enjoying the fruits of a nearly inexhaustible tree of wealth and the exclusivity of knowing the most powerful people in the world, any one of which could "help a brother" down on his luck out with a fat loan in the blink of an eye.
Why should people welcome those SAME disparities in a video game? In their escapist window from the harshness of the unforgiving world? Your average player is already getting stomped by the knuckle-dragging 18-hours-a-day trog army, now you want them to get smashed by the rich boys, too? At least the former are working for their advantage - moneybags doesn't have to do jack, he just ponies up the gold card for some phat loot.
You're never going to do anything about the basement gremlin who has chosen to become a kind of digital-age monk and pledge a life of servitude to their computer monitor, but, by God, we shouldn't how to put up with rich, spoiled twats flaunting real-world wealth in a friggin' video game.
Everybody has the same amount of time in a day because the numbers of hours is a known finite number that can be put into certain task. You can put less, it's up to you, not more.
The same can't be said about money.
If you get 2 person of irrelevant race, gender, in same overall health quality and place them in a room with the same clothes and same computer they can spend the same amount of hours per day playing a game which is 24. If you take the controlled space out the amount of hours persist. It is the amount of hours in a day.
As I said, if your share of the hours is spent on something else that's up to you.
You are stating that the responsibility for you spending your time on something else is not yours. Man, it's your life, get your shit together.
Can we talk about reality here for a second - as in how real people actually play?
A family man with 2 kids and a wife who is the sole breadwinner and works full time - won't have the same amount of time as a teenager who lives with his parents and is on summer break.
The responsibility of a working man is to take care of his family - are you saying he should abandon them so he can spend more time gaming?
That's what you call "getting your shit" together?
What people are looking for is an even playing field in game mechanics that more prosperous members of society cannot benefit (overwhelmingly) from. We already face gross inequalities in our real lives - the rich lord over us like kings, flying hither and thither in private jets; spending months exploring rugged coastlines from mega yachts; enjoying the fruits of a nearly inexhaustible tree of wealth and the exclusivity of knowing the most powerful people in the world, any one of which could "help a brother" down on his luck out with a fat loan in the blink of an eye.
Why should people welcome those SAME disparities in a video game? In their escapist window from the harshness of the unforgiving world? Your average player is already getting stomped by the knuckle-dragging 18-hours-a-day trog army, now you want them to get smashed by the rich boys, too? At least the former are working for their advantage - moneybags doesn't have to do jack, he just ponies up the gold card for some phat loot.
You're never going to do anything about the basement gremlin who has chosen to become a kind of digital-age monk and pledge a life of servitude to their computer monitor, but, by God, we shouldn't how to put up with rich, spoiled twats flaunting real-world wealth in a friggin' video game.
But, we do........have to....that is. They have the money after all, and people who make games want it.
What I find hilarious is that people are surprised. I remember seeing a lot of you defend Daum over the early months as they inched their way towards pay2win. Enjoy your cake.
I asked a question some pages ago and didn't see an answer. I still want an answer. Anyway, my question is:
Does this materially affect anything outside of the endgame? If you want to argue that there is no endgame, then does it materially affect anything outside of high level gameplay?
I think it only really impacts the pvp side of the game. And although BDO has this image of being a "pvp game", I wasn't at all interested in the pvp even before this development (I love pvp, but not with massive gear gaps and a focus on grinding pve to own in pvp like in BDO).
To me the game's strengths lie in its beautiful "living" world, exploration, variety of activities, and fairly unique/interesting mechanics. The cash shop changes don't impact any of that, but I still find it extremely disappointing because I was immensely impressed with how they had originally cut out nearly all overt p2w.
It is amazing that many of the posters here was saying that "it is journey that matters" just a few weeks ago and now all that matters to them is that someone will get a +15 gear 1 month before them. Ohhh western gamers, there are no bigger musical chair in this world than your ever changing minds...
I know that this is very hard to understand, since many youths - likely including yourself - lack both principles and scruples. But not everyone else does. Even to the most diehard devotee, some things are worth quitting over.
What is hard to grasp for me is that how can some people try to provide expert opinion on matter they don't even understand, how they can just label a situation with their own brand of ignorance and think it is a mature thing to do so.
Post edited by jesteralways on
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Everybody has the same amount of time in a day because the numbers of hours is a known finite number that can be put into certain task. You can put less, it's up to you, not more.
The same can't be said about money.
If you get 2 person of irrelevant race, gender, in same overall health quality and place them in a room with the same clothes and same computer they can spend the same amount of hours per day playing a game which is 24. If you take the controlled space out the amount of hours persist. It is the amount of hours in a day.
As I said, if your share of the hours is spent on something else that's up to you.
You are stating that the responsibility for you spending your time on something else is not yours. Man, it's your life, get your shit together.
Can we talk about reality here for a second - as in how real people actually play?
A family man with 2 kids and a wife who is the sole breadwinner and works full time - won't have the same amount of time as a teenager who lives with his parents and is on summer break.
The responsibility of a working man is to take care of his family - are you saying he should abandon them so he can spend more time gaming?
That's what you call "getting your shit" together?
What people are looking for is an even playing field in game mechanics
BDO has no even playing field by game design, if it did everybody would have the same stats on every character they make, everybody would make the same amount of gold or everyone could breed the same quality mount. The more you talk, the more you expose how little you know about the game you are playing and shouting "expert" opinion about.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Comments
Tbh its that kind of thinking that imo represents the very worst factors of some online games.
I hope they rethink this.
and all you need to be to use it, is level 8.
PvP players should not support a game which has this type of disparity because it does not depend on skill . Every game that has this type of system should not be supported from the get go, you should not play the game at all if you are a serious PvPer.
This is why GW2 does not have an issue with the money for gold exchange because there is not a huge disparity in that game. It is much more fairer to PvPers.
well, some surely do, but in general this business model seems to work quite well over there.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
The evil here is the P2W, because the game was functioning up until now. I didn't like it, but BDO had some fairly easy-to-grasp 'rules' regarding how P2W it could get (or, folks imagines it did), and people who were happy with them weren't leaping like lemmings over a cliff face like they are now. So it's possible to imagine that Black Desert could have just kept chugging along like it was indefinitely - ergo, the 'true evil' was not the +15 +20 whatever system; it was Daum's plan to bend its collective western player base over and get them coming and going.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Quote it
Its not so much a matter of principle, though there is one, but that wallet warriors tend to be the worst types of people, they have to be better than others, regardless of personal merit, and the ego's involved of those who think that money can buy them anything, and in P2W games it frequently does, is beyond reprehensible, i'd rather leave a game i love to play than engage with those types, on any level.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
It is only about a decision how you spent your time.
You, chose to spend your time playing a video games while others spent their time getting better paid jobs.
Now, you want everyone put down to your level of income because of your decision what to do with your time.
P2W = whining tirade of a loser
Why should people welcome those SAME disparities in a video game? In their escapist window from the harshness of the unforgiving world? Your average player is already getting stomped by the knuckle-dragging 18-hours-a-day trog army, now you want them to get smashed by the rich boys, too? At least the former are working for their advantage - moneybags doesn't have to do jack, he just ponies up the gold card for some phat loot.
You're never going to do anything about the basement gremlin who has chosen to become a kind of digital-age monk and pledge a life of servitude to their computer monitor, but, by God, we shouldn't how to put up with rich, spoiled twats flaunting real-world wealth in a friggin' video game.
They have the money after all, and people who make games want it.
I think it only really impacts the pvp side of the game. And although BDO has this image of being a "pvp game", I wasn't at all interested in the pvp even before this development (I love pvp, but not with massive gear gaps and a focus on grinding pve to own in pvp like in BDO).
To me the game's strengths lie in its beautiful "living" world, exploration, variety of activities, and fairly unique/interesting mechanics. The cash shop changes don't impact any of that, but I still find it extremely disappointing because I was immensely impressed with how they had originally cut out nearly all overt p2w.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.