If you put your business plan on display to the public then fail to meet goals... don't blame the public for the response you get. You're the one that fucked up. Take responsibility. Understand that criticism is the part of all things in life. Especially when you're holding onto other peoples' money for the express purpose of meeting specific goals that you failed to meet. The public did not set these timelines, you did. If you fail to meet them man the fuck up and admit you fucked up. Don't have ANY part of your response be "Please we're sensitive, and although we essentially are holding your money hostage and failing to meet the criteria of what we said we were going to accomplish with the help of your money, our feelings are hurt when we fuck up and you point it out". This is not an acceptable response.
They didn't say that.
That is precisely what their words amount to. And the most laughable fact is that their statements afterwards about "we can be less transparent blah blah blah" is just more unprofessional emotional responses to their paying customers. This is a very mickey mouse type operation. Anyone who has given these people money should have had their eyes opened by this last incident if the previous writing on the wall was being ignored.
Well it's 16 people, so...... Yeah. No multi-million dollar pr department for sure. My general rule of thumb is that you should never let developers talk to people. Like ever.
If you put your business plan on display to the public then fail to meet goals... don't blame the public for the response you get. You're the one that fucked up. Take responsibility. Understand that criticism is the part of all things in life. Especially when you're holding onto other peoples' money for the express purpose of meeting specific goals that you failed to meet. The public did not set these timelines, you did. If you fail to meet them man the fuck up and admit you fucked up. Don't have ANY part of your response be "Please we're sensitive, and although we essentially are holding your money hostage and failing to meet the criteria of what we said we were going to accomplish with the help of your money, our feelings are hurt when we fuck up and you point it out". This is not an acceptable response.
They didn't say that.
That is precisely what their words amount to. And the most laughable fact is that their statements afterwards about "we can be less transparent blah blah blah" is just more unprofessional emotional responses to their paying customers. This is a very mickey mouse type operation. Anyone who has given these people money should have had their eyes opened by this last incident if the previous writing on the wall was being ignored.
Yeah, that line definitely jumped out at me, too. Okay, dummy: threaten your customers. That's always a solid play.
They never learned how to do 'the thing'. If it looks like 5 days say about 7 or 8, that way when you do it in 5 people think you're good, and if you do it in 8 you're right on schedule.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
As with all Kickstarters it comes down to the company's ability to deliver on what they promise
What game did you back for? I backed for Chronicles of Elyria. I didn't give my money to them for a forum - we kinda have that for free, right here.
You see that thing on Kickstarter that said "Estimated delivery: Dec 2017"? If they miss that estimate, sure post away - we *did* back for the GAME.
But all this angst over a SHOP? [mod edit]
Things are dependent on other things. It is not unlikely that delays early on in some things will impact the schedule for other things and push everything out.
i.e. Spend more time and resources than expected on one thing, means some of that time and resources can't be spent on some other thing. Some of those things may be on their critical path to deliver by the estimated 2017 Dec.
So... If they HAVE a plan, and if they haven't padded the estimate to try to account for various unforeseen circumstances, then delays like this may definitely impact their original estimate.
I hope they have a good plan, and have performed their proof of concept, technical feasibility and so on. Else, delays and changes in scope may arise in order to hit Dec 2017. In such case, don't be surprised if they only release a part of what they promised by Dec 2017.
Anyone know anything about his previous stint as CEO? Four years with Modern Genealogy LLC as co-owner. There is a stub website with the domain name for sale at $540.
How many employees? Did it ever produce a working product? GenSoftReviews has an entry but no reviews http://www.gensoftreviews.com/?p=1059 Was the company sold or did it fail?
The genealogy software was apparently in its "latest stages of testing" as of September 2008 or earlier. There was a link on the website to register to the Beta test (early access) from mid 2008 to early/mid 2011 if I'm correct, with the mention "The beta version of Modern Genealogy™ 2009 will be available for testing later this summer." The last screenshot for this website was taken in February 2011, then it went down.
Interesting, kind of blows a large hole in his resume. Also gives us a hint at his ability to deliver a project on time.
Coming from a wannabe "pro" here?
Sign up for Chronicles of Elyria here don't forget to use my friend code - B4ACB3
Anyone know anything about his previous stint as CEO? Four years with Modern Genealogy LLC as co-owner. There is a stub website with the domain name for sale at $540.
How many employees? Did it ever produce a working product? GenSoftReviews has an entry but no reviews http://www.gensoftreviews.com/?p=1059 Was the company sold or did it fail?
The genealogy software was apparently in its "latest stages of testing" as of September 2008 or earlier. There was a link on the website to register to the Beta test (early access) from mid 2008 to early/mid 2011 if I'm correct, with the mention "The beta version of Modern Genealogy™ 2009 will be available for testing later this summer." The last screenshot for this website was taken in February 2011, then it went down.
Interesting, kind of blows a large hole in his resume. Also gives us a hint at his ability to deliver a project on time.
Coming from a wannabe "pro" here?
No, not a wannabe anything. Thirty-five years in IT, lots of experience in recruiting staff from programers to Project Managers. Not only that I know I am not alone on this site there are least a half dozen others with much better resumes than Caspian's.
Anyone know anything about his previous stint as CEO? Four years with Modern Genealogy LLC as co-owner. There is a stub website with the domain name for sale at $540.
How many employees? Did it ever produce a working product? GenSoftReviews has an entry but no reviews http://www.gensoftreviews.com/?p=1059 Was the company sold or did it fail?
The genealogy software was apparently in its "latest stages of testing" as of September 2008 or earlier. There was a link on the website to register to the Beta test (early access) from mid 2008 to early/mid 2011 if I'm correct, with the mention "The beta version of Modern Genealogy™ 2009 will be available for testing later this summer." The last screenshot for this website was taken in February 2011, then it went down.
Interesting, kind of blows a large hole in his resume. Also gives us a hint at his ability to deliver a project on time.
Coming from a wannabe "pro" here?
No, not a wannabe anything. Thirty-five years in IT, lots of experience in recruiting staff from programers to Project Managers. Not only that I know I am not alone on this site there are least a half dozen others with much better resumes than Caspian's.
You do it then...
Sign up for Chronicles of Elyria here don't forget to use my friend code - B4ACB3
Anyone know anything about his previous stint as CEO? Four years with Modern Genealogy LLC as co-owner. There is a stub website with the domain name for sale at $540.
How many employees? Did it ever produce a working product? GenSoftReviews has an entry but no reviews http://www.gensoftreviews.com/?p=1059 Was the company sold or did it fail?
The genealogy software was apparently in its "latest stages of testing" as of September 2008 or earlier. There was a link on the website to register to the Beta test (early access) from mid 2008 to early/mid 2011 if I'm correct, with the mention "The beta version of Modern Genealogy™ 2009 will be available for testing later this summer." The last screenshot for this website was taken in February 2011, then it went down.
Interesting, kind of blows a large hole in his resume. Also gives us a hint at his ability to deliver a project on time.
Coming from a wannabe "pro" here?
No, not a wannabe anything. Thirty-five years in IT, lots of experience in recruiting staff from programers to Project Managers. Not only that I know I am not alone on this site there are least a half dozen others with much better resumes than Caspian's.
You do it then...
Sorry I want to play games not make them.
You waited fourteen days to make this attack and this is all you have? Sad, very sad.
Looking what MMORPG.COM is going through trying to move to a new website, I have to wonder.This site is run by experienced people who have done this for years and trying to use other sources who have done this for years, and are still having trouble. And this is how COE want's to build an entirely new MMORPG? This upstart company wants to use this same outsourced development method to do something that's never been done before using technology that's never been used before by people who have never done this before contracting out to more people who have never done this before?
Looking what MMORPG.COM is going through trying to move to a new website, I have to wonder.This site is run by experienced people who have done this for years and trying to use other sources who have done this for years, and are still having trouble. And this is how COE want's to build an entirely new MMORPG? This upstart company wants to use this same outsourced development method to do something that's never been done before using technology that's never been used before by people who have never done this before contracting out to more people who have never done this before?
Looking what MMORPG.COM is going through trying to move to a new website, I have to wonder.This site is run by experienced people who have done this for years and trying to use other sources who have done this for years, and are still having trouble. And this is how COE want's to build an entirely new MMORPG? This upstart company wants to use this same outsourced development method to do something that's never been done before using technology that's never been used before by people who have never done this before contracting out to more people who have never done this before?
Did I get that right?
Please stop with the disinformation... they have only 2 or 3 remote full-time staff now who are relocating soon to be in the main office in person instead of offsite working. Early on they had outsourced help from all over, but most have relocated to be able to attend in person or they've hired additional staff in place of outsourced resources that couldn't be there in-person.
There is no 'outsourced' development happening, it's all internal or remote (but fulltime staff) and the use of 3rd party vendors for their gateway services. IE: billing gateway for the webstore (when it's live), which I'm sure by launch or sometime after this will eventually roll over to be an entirely in-house toolset once things have matured enough.
They're have a dedicated web dev starting august 1st as it is IIRC.
Visit the Chronicles of Elyria official site and the Official Wiki... an upcoming MMO from Soulbound Studios with real consequences to your actions. Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
Looking what MMORPG.COM is going through trying to move to a new website, I have to wonder.This site is run by experienced people who have done this for years and trying to use other sources who have done this for years, and are still having trouble. And this is how COE want's to build an entirely new MMORPG? This upstart company wants to use this same outsourced development method to do something that's never been done before using technology that's never been used before by people who have never done this before contracting out to more people who have never done this before?
Did I get that right?
Please stop with the disinformation... they have only 2 or 3 remote full-time staff now who are relocating soon to be in the main office in person instead of offsite working. Early on they had outsourced help from all over, but most have relocated to be able to attend in person or they've hired additional staff in place of outsourced resources that couldn't be there in-person.
There is no 'outsourced' development happening, it's all internal or remote (but fulltime staff) and the use of 3rd party vendors for their gateway services. IE: billing gateway for the webstore (when it's live), which I'm sure by launch or sometime after this will eventually roll over to be an entirely in-house toolset once things have matured enough.
They're have a dedicated web dev starting august 1st as it is IIRC.
You are playing at semantics. But, it's OK, I'll play along. So is SpatialOS Outsourced? Contracted? Remote? or some other term? What's the correct term so I can edit my post with the correct term so I'm not spreading disinformation?
Edit: Never mind, I really don't have anything else to say
Looking what MMORPG.COM is going through trying to move to a new website, I have to wonder.This site is run by experienced people who have done this for years and trying to use other sources who have done this for years, and are still having trouble. And this is how COE want's to build an entirely new MMORPG? This upstart company wants to use this same outsourced development method to do something that's never been done before using technology that's never been used before by people who have never done this before contracting out to more people who have never done this before?
Did I get that right?
Please stop with the disinformation... they have only 2 or 3 remote full-time staff now who are relocating soon to be in the main office in person instead of offsite working. Early on they had outsourced help from all over, but most have relocated to be able to attend in person or they've hired additional staff in place of outsourced resources that couldn't be there in-person.
There is no 'outsourced' development happening, it's all internal or remote (but fulltime staff) and the use of 3rd party vendors for their gateway services. IE: billing gateway for the webstore (when it's live), which I'm sure by launch or sometime after this will eventually roll over to be an entirely in-house toolset once things have matured enough.
They're have a dedicated web dev starting august 1st as it is IIRC.
You are playing at semantics. But, it's OK, I'll play along. So is SpatialOS Outsourced? Contracted? Remote? or some other term? What's the correct term so I can edit my post with the correct term so I'm not spreading disinformation?
Edit: Never mind, I really don't have anything else to say
From all that I've read and researched on the product... it's like SBS using UE4 - in this case they have licenced the product through whatever agreements have been made, are given access to the SDK and are working on integrating it with their game client. Where things are not working properly they will, like any typical deal with having a vendor, work with them to find the fault that's stopping their workflow or enhance the application as needed.
The same thing will happen with UE4... or any other third-party application / toolset they look to utilise.
EDIT: Your wording implies they are sending development of a feature to someone else with only input as required at key checks. Licencing a 3rd party to use their developed application is different, and is the way I understand how this works.
The website wasn't a licenced application, it was a custom build for them and tbh... 4-8 days to get a custom build site up isn't too bad. We already have more features on it than previously and as mod I can see additional options that are near complete. But those I'm personally happy to wait for the dedicated web dev guy they have hired to start up and finish off while Caspian works on other things more important.
Post edited by Maygus on
Visit the Chronicles of Elyria official site and the Official Wiki... an upcoming MMO from Soulbound Studios with real consequences to your actions. Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
Anyone know anything about his previous stint as CEO? Four years with Modern Genealogy LLC as co-owner. There is a stub website with the domain name for sale at $540.
How many employees? Did it ever produce a working product? GenSoftReviews has an entry but no reviews http://www.gensoftreviews.com/?p=1059 Was the company sold or did it fail?
The genealogy software was apparently in its "latest stages of testing" as of September 2008 or earlier. There was a link on the website to register to the Beta test (early access) from mid 2008 to early/mid 2011 if I'm correct, with the mention "The beta version of Modern Genealogy™ 2009 will be available for testing later this summer." The last screenshot for this website was taken in February 2011, then it went down.
Interesting, kind of blows a large hole in his resume. Also gives us a hint at his ability to deliver a project on time.
Coming from a wannabe "pro" here?
No, not a wannabe anything. Thirty-five years in IT, lots of experience in recruiting staff from programers to Project Managers. Not only that I know I am not alone on this site there are least a half dozen others with much better resumes than Caspian's.
A resume only goes so far though.
Theyve claimed that they can make an MMO that puts AAA titles to shame for the tidy sum of 1.5 million and it'll be done next yearish. When you factor in those laughable claims, bring up their complete lack of experience is a fair point. Now had they set reasonable expectations and not promised things any sane developer would not have, people would be more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I understand they have made mistakes but all studios do. Big and small. If they can complete their game and it is a good one all this back and forth will be for nothing and reveal itself to be as petty as it is.
And if they DON'T complete their game or it "releases" in a horribly incomplete state? Is it wrong to tell Don Quixote to stop tilting at windmills?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Even the big studios run into unexpected problems. After I've seen what games and movies for that matter have to go through to get produced it's a miracle they get released at all. Most of the time they take on a life of their own and the finished product may look completely different than what it looked like on paper.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Even the big studios run into unexpected problems. After I've seen what games and movies for that matter have to go through to get produced it's a miracle they get released at all. Most of the time they take on a life of their own and the finished product may look completely different than what it looked like on paper.
Yes, this is true. The reason CoE devs are getting so much flak is because they came out swinging with a huge amount of ego. Maybe to inspire confidence, maybe to build hype, I dunno why they did it. But no one made them act like they were hot shit and that they're going to knock this MMO out of the park in one year and it'll be amazeballs.
So when the inevitable development hurdles that everyone knows exist showed up, they're [rightfully] getting all that hubris shoved back in their face. This also won't be the only or last hurdle that they will face, we'll see how they cope with future challenges.
I'm with Rusque if I read that post right. I hope they succeed, but they have a big hill to climb. Wasting energy calling back down at unenthused spectators isn't going to help get up that mountain, so they should make sure and stop doing that last week.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
The main reason I won't back any game. If a dev isn't willing to back their own idea, then why should I?
He already backed it with $500k before the kickstarter of his own personal money.
I would want to see an independent auditors report before accepting that. After all his resume shows a failed company that he presumably put his own personal money into in 2009, not a lot of tme to accumulate another 500k.
The main reason I won't back any game. If a dev isn't willing to back their own idea, then why should I?
He already backed it with $500k before the kickstarter of his own personal money.
I would want to see an independent auditors report before accepting that. After all his resume shows a failed company that he presumably put his own personal money into in 2009, not a lot of tme to accumulate another 500k.
If you had done any reading on his background at all, you'd know Caspian sold his dream home to come up with that 500k.
An investor has a right to see precisely what funds have been made available and where they have been allocated during game development.
Some random on the internet that clicks "LOL" on all the comments he disagrees with is not entitled to that information. Neither am I, for that matter.
I am just a kickstarter backer. I accept that I took him at his word that he put money down for this project and i pledged an amount I wouldn't lose sleep over even if i had taken it out of my wallet and set fire to it.
That's all there is to it regarding backing: you believe them, have some faith, and donate some money -- then you walk away and hope for the best. Or, you don't have faith, and you don't donate money.
Comments
Well it's 16 people, so...... Yeah. No multi-million dollar pr department for sure. My general rule of thumb is that you should never let developers talk to people. Like ever.
Crazkanuk
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"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
i.e. Spend more time and resources than expected on one thing, means some of that time and resources can't be spent on some other thing. Some of those things may be on their critical path to deliver by the estimated 2017 Dec.
So... If they HAVE a plan, and if they haven't padded the estimate to try to account for various unforeseen circumstances, then delays like this may definitely impact their original estimate.
I hope they have a good plan, and have performed their proof of concept, technical feasibility and so on.
Else, delays and changes in scope may arise in order to hit Dec 2017. In such case, don't be surprised if they only release a part of what they promised by Dec 2017.
Join the revolutionary MMO!
Join the revolutionary MMO!
You waited fourteen days to make this attack and this is all you have?
Sad, very sad.
Did I get that right?
Don't worry, they'll have it done in a year!
There is no 'outsourced' development happening, it's all internal or remote (but fulltime staff) and the use of 3rd party vendors for their gateway services. IE: billing gateway for the webstore (when it's live), which I'm sure by launch or sometime after this will eventually roll over to be an entirely in-house toolset once things have matured enough.
They're have a dedicated web dev starting august 1st as it is IIRC.
Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
Edit: Never mind, I really don't have anything else to say
The same thing will happen with UE4... or any other third-party application / toolset they look to utilise.
EDIT:
Your wording implies they are sending development of a feature to someone else with only input as required at key checks. Licencing a 3rd party to use their developed application is different, and is the way I understand how this works.
The website wasn't a licenced application, it was a custom build for them and tbh... 4-8 days to get a custom build site up isn't too bad. We already have more features on it than previously and as mod I can see additional options that are near complete. But those I'm personally happy to wait for the dedicated web dev guy they have hired to start up and finish off while Caspian works on other things more important.
Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
So when the inevitable development hurdles that everyone knows exist showed up, they're [rightfully] getting all that hubris shoved back in their face. This also won't be the only or last hurdle that they will face, we'll see how they cope with future challenges.
An investor has a right to see precisely what funds have been made available and where they have been allocated during game development.
Some random on the internet that clicks "LOL" on all the comments he disagrees with is not entitled to that information. Neither am I, for that matter.
I am just a kickstarter backer. I accept that I took him at his word that he put money down for this project and i pledged an amount I wouldn't lose sleep over even if i had taken it out of my wallet and set fire to it.
That's all there is to it regarding backing: you believe them, have some faith, and donate some money -- then you walk away and hope for the best. Or, you don't have faith, and you don't donate money.