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Why Can't You Find A Game?

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  • DaikuruDaikuru Member RarePosts: 797
    Kopogero said:
    Only if the majority of individuals were like me we would see far superior products ship to the market. You just have to wait for people to run out of $ to be desperate enough to deliver superior products and that won't happen until we have out there people printing their own $ and rich people not being interested in gaming.


    Oh my....

    The game industry would be bankrupt if alle people were like you.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    - Albert Einstein


  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    CrazKanuk said:

    My biggest thing is the artificial story bloat. I mean I could play games like SWTOR all day long for the story. That is if I didn't have to wade through 40 hours of bloat along the way. It's like they're worried that I won't come back. Shit, you've got 2 factions with like 4 classes each. That's a minimum 8 characters. That's not bashing the SWTOR stories either, since I think they're some of the best, it's more commentary on how they just toss in the filler. "No! I can't kill your level 1 rats, I'm a freakin' Jedi on a very important mission to save humanity, so PLEASE! Just give me what I need already!" 
    Lol, yeah, I always wondered over that part. In most MMOs the storyline have you doing something very important but still expect you to stop and do any boring menial task as if they have priority over saving the world or whatever.

    I think the problem is that the game constantly yak about how important the main story is. Personally I think that they tone down the importance of the main story until you are close to max level and then skip all filler quests once you hit that.

    Dynamic event driven games like GW2 does this a little better since DEs always are optional and the fact that DEs often feels more urgent then quests (save the village from rampaging ogres that actually rampage always feel more important to me then go and kill 10 ogres over there). Still, at time the main story there as well feel silly since you have to level up to be able to continue even when you really should act fast.

    Maybe the MMOs leveling story should be far less important for the world so you could put far more importance in the late game story. If your characters leveling story where more about things like getting rich, famous or powerful you would be more motivated to stop and do less important things.

    Another possibility is to give each zone their own main story and focus all quests and DEs on the zones story. Do we really need a huge main story for a jedi when each zone in themselves could be different mission the council send them on? But that still demands that the side quests will be relevant to what happens in the zone, You don't go out and kill 10 rats in a farmers field when a bunch of Sith is destroying the entire planet after all.

    Side quests have always polluted the MMO story, while they certainly exist in single player games as well they never messes up the main story.

    Of course you could also skip the main story and just have many smaller stories to get a more "Conan" like feeling of the game. I don't know why every single games story have to be a long epic quest to save the world, shorter stories about slightly less important things that matter to your character can be just as fun.
  • KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685
    edited July 2016
    Bankrupt? You would be surprised how "bankruptcy" and hunger are a great motivator for people to do things to get out of those things. Look at China as best example and the many cheap things you buy and use through your life. It's all thanks to those 3rd world countries with poor economies that you can afford and enjoy many of the things with your $.

    image

  • DaikuruDaikuru Member RarePosts: 797
    Kopogero said:
    Bankrupt? You would be surprised how "bankruptcy" and hunger are a great motivator for people to do things to get out of those things. Look at China as best example and the many cheap things you buy and use through your life. It's all thanks to those 3rd world countries with poor economies that you can afford and enjoy many of the things with your $.

    You need money and manpower to make games, i dont see how bunkruptcy could be any help.

    IMO there is no lack of motivation in the gaming industry.

    Just because you dont like the current games, doesnt mean others dont enjoy those games.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    - Albert Einstein


  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Loke666 said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    My biggest thing is the artificial story bloat. I mean I could play games like SWTOR all day long for the story. That is if I didn't have to wade through 40 hours of bloat along the way. It's like they're worried that I won't come back. Shit, you've got 2 factions with like 4 classes each. That's a minimum 8 characters. That's not bashing the SWTOR stories either, since I think they're some of the best, it's more commentary on how they just toss in the filler. "No! I can't kill your level 1 rats, I'm a freakin' Jedi on a very important mission to save humanity, so PLEASE! Just give me what I need already!" 
    Lol, yeah, I always wondered over that part. In most MMOs the storyline have you doing something very important but still expect you to stop and do any boring menial task as if they have priority over saving the world or whatever.

    I think the problem is that the game constantly yak about how important the main story is. Personally I think that they tone down the importance of the main story until you are close to max level and then skip all filler quests once you hit that.

    Dynamic event driven games like GW2 does this a little better since DEs always are optional and the fact that DEs often feels more urgent then quests (save the village from rampaging ogres that actually rampage always feel more important to me then go and kill 10 ogres over there). Still, at time the main story there as well feel silly since you have to level up to be able to continue even when you really should act fast.

    Maybe the MMOs leveling story should be far less important for the world so you could put far more importance in the late game story. If your characters leveling story where more about things like getting rich, famous or powerful you would be more motivated to stop and do less important things.

    Another possibility is to give each zone their own main story and focus all quests and DEs on the zones story. Do we really need a huge main story for a jedi when each zone in themselves could be different mission the council send them on? But that still demands that the side quests will be relevant to what happens in the zone, You don't go out and kill 10 rats in a farmers field when a bunch of Sith is destroying the entire planet after all.

    Side quests have always polluted the MMO story, while they certainly exist in single player games as well they never messes up the main story.

    Of course you could also skip the main story and just have many smaller stories to get a more "Conan" like feeling of the game. I don't know why every single games story have to be a long epic quest to save the world, shorter stories about slightly less important things that matter to your character can be just as fun.

    Honestly, I'd be completely satisfied with a 20 or 30 hour story and I think you'd get that with SWTOR. It really just boils down to the monetization, right? So set up 4 classes for play and sell the other 4 in a package. If I'm getting 80 hours of gameplay for free and it's good, I'll gladly pay for another 80. Then you can also get me on expacks or subs. I just look at things like Destiny and The Division. I've grown tired of both at this point, but the story was short enough to let me jump in and quickly join up with friends, substantial enough to be worth the price of admission, but not so long that I lost my motivation to play. I still had that sense of urgency like I really did impact the end game somehow. Oh, and they were fun to play. 

    Anyway, I think that's the new formula. Fun. Imagine that! 


    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719

    "What we do know is that there are more MMO games out today than there ever has been in the genre's history. "

    And most of them are the exact same gameplay.
    That's a very superficial look at the genre. I mean, we couldn't even refer to it as a "genre" if there were not many similarities:

    genre: 
    a category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, characterized by similarities in form, style, or subject matter.

    You only get to do something unique for the first time once (duh.) The first batch of mainstream MMORPGs seemed and were very creative because the genre was being invented and many things were being done for the first time. The ones that came after subtracted and changed those early original concepts and added their own contributions.

    As the genre grew and 3 became 300, the similarities are easier to pick out and the refinements are often subtle, but they are there.

    Saying that they're all the same is an exaggeration that is almost like saying "hey! this fits in the MMORPG genre"... no shit.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • SteelhelmSteelhelm Member UncommonPosts: 332
    I want three EVE in fantasy games and a Coke, please. If you don't have that I'll settle for an open world fantasy RvR with no levels or classes with horizontal progression. Thank you. :)
    Talking about games where thousands of players exist simultaneously in a single instance and mechanics related to such games.
  • CyraelCyrael Member UncommonPosts: 239
    I'm pretty happy at the moment. Playing Eve Online and WoW (private vanilla server, can't stand current retail).
  • VestigeGamerVestigeGamer Member UncommonPosts: 518
    Iselin said:

    "What we do know is that there are more MMO games out today than there ever has been in the genre's history. "

    And most of them are the exact same gameplay.
    That's a very superficial look at the genre. I mean, we couldn't even refer to it as a "genre" if there were not many similarities:

    genre: 
    a category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, characterized by similarities in form, style, or subject matter.

    You only get to do something unique for the first time once (duh.) The first batch of mainstream MMORPGs seemed and were very creative because the genre was being invented and many things were being done for the first time. The ones that came after subtracted and changed those early original concepts and added their own contributions.

    As the genre grew and 3 became 300, the similarities are easier to pick out and the refinements are often subtle, but they are there.

    Saying that they're all the same is an exaggeration that is almost like saying "hey! this fits in the MMORPG genre"... no shit.
    True enough.  I'll amend my post to say, "NOT the type of gameplay I enjoy."

    VG

  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,657
    My problem is finding too many games I want to play.  
    "I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone.  It's not.  The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."  Robin Williams
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,993
    I'm in the boat where I have too many games I want to play and have not the time for them. I am in an enviable position and I'm happy I have games to play. Sorry for you if cannot find a game to play. Why don't you go play the old games or try private servers.

    I have no sympathy for picky people who cannot find anything they like and wallow in their own miserable condition and come on these forums to drag everyone else down to keep them company and in the process manage to insult and question the intelligence of the people that are playing and enjoying games. Perhaps if you are unhappy you should just go away and stop peppering the forum of games you do not like with your hate.

  • Kevan_fKevan_f Member UncommonPosts: 65
    probably, some people really wish to enjoy a mmo and play with others, but can't find the right one...it's my same problem: all mmos i try seem to be clones, with old gameplay, boring action, a lot of grind.

    and everything looked promising when in alpha-kickstart, usually ends up with bad development, cash grab, wow clones.

    no, many of us are sincerely looking for something different, but that atm doesn't exist.
    still, there is hope in indie games....or at least in small shards/corpg's
  • Gamer54321Gamer54321 Member UncommonPosts: 452
    Bah! "Get over yourself"?

    The same way a comic creator has to appeal to peoples senses and their knowledge of the world when trying to draw realistic looking scenery and dramatizing human behavior and including common phenomena, the same goes for computer games.

    Instead of trying to crystallize a style (content&form) that makes sense, it is tempting for me to characterize the half assedness of games as confusing and immersion breaking, going for dumb simplicity instead of the possibilities of working with abstraction.

    A game like SWTOR failed to build on adhere to the aesthetic considerations that would have made for a proper fantasy game with sci-fi elements in it, instead the game looked like some shallow attempt at working with fantasy and sci-fi.

    A game like Arma 3 fails to adhere to things one would expect to be realistic in a warfare combat game. Shitty animations, damning bugs that doesn't ever seem to be fixed, lack of realistic stuff, and a lack of imagination and a lack of interest into what players would expect of a warfare combat game.

    World of tanks/World of warships: relying on fluff graphics wise, with shallow and dumb game mechanics, populistic drivel.
  • Gamer54321Gamer54321 Member UncommonPosts: 452
    edited August 2016
    I want games:

    • To appeal to ones sense of realism, whenever dealing with a more realistic subject matter.
    • To have artistic merit, whenever trying to work with both a fantasy genre as well as anything realistic.
    • To not be designed in such a way, so as to end up being self defeating; either annoying the gamer after a while, or obviously having such limitations nobody will want to play the game beyond a certain point.
    • To rely on the game mechanics being based on player options, and not some freaking gimmick fest that is dumb and shallow.
    • To be taken seriously by its creators. Games shouldn't be thought of as being designed to be a waste of time playing it, or just a monetized product that appeal to investor's sense of fun (greed).
  • Gamer54321Gamer54321 Member UncommonPosts: 452
    edited August 2016
    Btw, I think some people's notion of "perfection" is deeply misleading (like OP's)
    Unfortunately, perfection is a word that is used as being a synonym to the word 'ideal' (either objectively, or worse, subjectively.

    The word perfection itself, doesn't really imply an ideal, but instead that one put great effort into doing something.

    To say that game's can't be perfect is not only misleading, but also dumb, because it apparently precludes the possibility of someone making a good game, OR, it probably confuses the notion of a quality product with how a product will be perceived by a random choice of people, that each might have wildly different opinions about any game, for various reasons, and maybe not even good ones.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    There are many games that I enjoy playing, but no single game fulfills all my needs. It cannot, because my needs change with my mood.

    My most-played games in recent years have been War Thunder and Skyrim/Fallout, with long spells of Civilization mixed-in. Many others have come and gone inbetween, but the majority of my game time has gone to those 4.

    I cannot listen to the same song or album indefinitely, neither can I play the same game indefinitely. But that doesn't mean that it's played once and forgotten. My favorites are re-visited time and time again.
  • Gamer54321Gamer54321 Member UncommonPosts: 452
    edited August 2016
    I guess the games I would enjoy the most, are known genre games. A little similar to what I have played before, and nothing wildly different.

    I am sure I could find a game similar to Baldurs Gate II fun, if improved upon. Not really needing that fancy ass 3d  graphics of todays games.
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    I find cash shops disgusting.

    Still lots of games to play but when it comes to MMORPGs it's a plague.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • BeowulfsamBeowulfsam Member UncommonPosts: 145
    So OP. If you don't like someting, shut up and GTFO. Ok. I'll take that under consideration.

    Anyway, I'm in a guild/group of people since 2009, there has been many people in the guild over the years, but mostly what they had in common was that they want to pvp, have fun and have competition since we kinda always aim for the top. 

    Lo and behold, we're still together, there's tons of people, and we're all disappointed by the MMOs of today. So we're mostly doing our own things and waiting for a decent MMO. And here you are, trying to say to all those people, that they need to just put up with all the bullshit the developers pull? People've been in plenty of alphas and varius testing, you would think that they listen to testers, well, mostly they did not. Biggest recent offenders were the Wildstar devs, they simply didn't care or had the idea they know everything. Well, the results speak for themselves. 

    Meh, I could go on for pages why it is how it is, it's a complex issue, but as far as I'm concerned, for our group of peeps, it boils down to: a lot of players that value competition and good combat mechanics simply don't have fun with the new games. And even if you know what's wrong, say it to devs, well, somehow that which annoys us never gets fixed or added. 
  • vveaver_onlinevveaver_online Member UncommonPosts: 436
    edited August 2016
    So OP. If you don't like someting, shut up and GTFO. Ok. I'll take that under consideration.

    Anyway, I'm in a guild/group of people since 2009, there has been many people in the guild over the years, but mostly what they had in common was that they want to pvp, have fun and have competition since we kinda always aim for the top. 

    Lo and behold, we're still together, there's tons of people, and we're all disappointed by the MMOs of today. So we're mostly doing our own things and waiting for a decent MMO. And here you are, trying to say to all those people, that they need to just put up with all the bullshit the developers pull? People've been in plenty of alphas and varius testing, you would think that they listen to testers, well, mostly they did not. Biggest recent offenders were the Wildstar devs, they simply didn't care or had the idea they know everything. Well, the results speak for themselves. 

    Meh, I could go on for pages why it is how it is, it's a complex issue, but as far as I'm concerned, for our group of peeps, it boils down to: a lot of players that value competition and good combat mechanics simply don't have fun with the new games. And even if you know what's wrong, say it to devs, well, somehow that which annoys us never gets fixed or added. 

    All this, I could also go on for pages about why this is accurate and OP is wrong. but meh, OP will not want to comprehend this angle and these views we share. OP wants us to play blizzards games and be happy.


    Maybe just maybe, its the developers/producers who need to get over themselves?


    Don't try to please everyone.

    Post edited by vveaver_online on
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    So OP. If you don't like someting, shut up and GTFO. Ok. I'll take that under consideration.

    Anyway, I'm in a guild/group of people since 2009, there has been many people in the guild over the years, but mostly what they had in common was that they want to pvp, have fun and have competition since we kinda always aim for the top. 

    Lo and behold, we're still together, there's tons of people, and we're all disappointed by the MMOs of today. So we're mostly doing our own things and waiting for a decent MMO. And here you are, trying to say to all those people, that they need to just put up with all the bullshit the developers pull? People've been in plenty of alphas and varius testing, you would think that they listen to testers, well, mostly they did not. Biggest recent offenders were the Wildstar devs, they simply didn't care or had the idea they know everything. Well, the results speak for themselves. 

    Meh, I could go on for pages why it is how it is, it's a complex issue, but as far as I'm concerned, for our group of peeps, it boils down to: a lot of players that value competition and good combat mechanics simply don't have fun with the new games. And even if you know what's wrong, say it to devs, well, somehow that which annoys us never gets fixed or added. 
    So if I understand what you're saying, you're part of a community that has shared values and since you're a group and have similar views, your collective assessment of the state of today's MMORPGs carries added weight because several of you share that opinion.

    It's a common logical fallacy and there have been many examples throughout history of groups being dead certain (literally so in some cases) about some things even though they're wrong.

    See Heaven's Gate for example. 

    I for one just spent about 16 hours this past weekend PVPing in ESO and having a blast doing it. Luckily I'm not part of a jaded group too elite to enjoy that type of "lesser" entertainment. And yeah, I have been doing this in MMOs for about 17 years.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,074
    Iselin said:
    So OP. If you don't like someting, shut up and GTFO. Ok. I'll take that under consideration.

    Anyway, I'm in a guild/group of people since 2009, there has been many people in the guild over the years, but mostly what they had in common was that they want to pvp, have fun and have competition since we kinda always aim for the top. 

    Lo and behold, we're still together, there's tons of people, and we're all disappointed by the MMOs of today. So we're mostly doing our own things and waiting for a decent MMO. And here you are, trying to say to all those people, that they need to just put up with all the bullshit the developers pull? People've been in plenty of alphas and varius testing, you would think that they listen to testers, well, mostly they did not. Biggest recent offenders were the Wildstar devs, they simply didn't care or had the idea they know everything. Well, the results speak for themselves. 

    Meh, I could go on for pages why it is how it is, it's a complex issue, but as far as I'm concerned, for our group of peeps, it boils down to: a lot of players that value competition and good combat mechanics simply don't have fun with the new games. And even if you know what's wrong, say it to devs, well, somehow that which annoys us never gets fixed or added. 
    So if I understand what you're saying, you're part of a community that has shared values and since you're a group and have similar views, your collective assessment of the state of today's MMORPGs carries added weight because several of you share that opinion.

    It's a common logical fallacy and there have been many examples throughout history of groups being dead certain (literally so in some cases) about some things even though they're wrong.

    See Heaven's Gate for example. 

    I for one just spent about 16 hours this past weekend PVPing in ESO and having a blast doing it. Luckily I'm not part of a jaded group too elite to enjoy that type of "lesser" entertainment. And yeah, I have been doing this in MMOs for about 17 years.
    The bandwagon fallacy aka argumentum ad populum.

    Alternately, without resorting to comparisons of Heaven's Gate, the comment of @Beowulfsam could be viewed as a commentary on how that particular group of people he is with had changed over the years.

    I've been in a guild since 2004, the kind that exists only in one game, and I am having a pretty good time with the PvP combat in Vendetta Online in that context (the game has been running for even longer).

    Why can't you find a game? Maybe it's time to retrain your brain. <insert subliminal ads here>

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • jusomdudejusomdude Member RarePosts: 2,706
    I have MMOs that I play now, mostly wow, but I'm finally getting pretty tired of it... I think legion might be my final expansion.

    I'd like to have a game now that actually feels like a virtual world.  Wow feels absolutely like just a game. I want a game/world with more things to do than just grind for loot. Minecraft feels more like a virtual world than most MMOs do.

    Lately I've really been wanting a game where I can do a lot of sailing, and actually have stuff to do while sailing. Things like maybe fighting sea monsters or searching for sunken cities, treasure, secrets, and whatever else there could be on the bottom of the ocean.
  • vveaver_onlinevveaver_online Member UncommonPosts: 436
    Iselin said:
    So OP. If you don't like someting, shut up and GTFO. Ok. I'll take that under consideration.

    Anyway, I'm in a guild/group of people since 2009, there has been many people in the guild over the years, but mostly what they had in common was that they want to pvp, have fun and have competition since we kinda always aim for the top. 

    Lo and behold, we're still together, there's tons of people, and we're all disappointed by the MMOs of today. So we're mostly doing our own things and waiting for a decent MMO. And here you are, trying to say to all those people, that they need to just put up with all the bullshit the developers pull? People've been in plenty of alphas and varius testing, you would think that they listen to testers, well, mostly they did not. Biggest recent offenders were the Wildstar devs, they simply didn't care or had the idea they know everything. Well, the results speak for themselves. 

    Meh, I could go on for pages why it is how it is, it's a complex issue, but as far as I'm concerned, for our group of peeps, it boils down to: a lot of players that value competition and good combat mechanics simply don't have fun with the new games. And even if you know what's wrong, say it to devs, well, somehow that which annoys us never gets fixed or added. 
    So if I understand what you're saying, you're part of a community that has shared values and since you're a group and have similar views, your collective assessment of the state of today's MMORPGs carries added weight because several of you share that opinion.

    It's a common logical fallacy and there have been many examples throughout history of groups being dead certain (literally so in some cases) about some things even though they're wrong.

    See Heaven's Gate for example. 

    I for one just spent about 16 hours this past weekend PVPing in ESO and having a blast doing it. Luckily I'm not part of a jaded group too elite to enjoy that type of "lesser" entertainment. And yeah, I have been doing this in MMOs for about 17 years.
    The bandwagon fallacy aka argumentum ad populum.

    Alternately, without resorting to comparisons of Heaven's Gate, the comment of @Beowulfsam could be viewed as a commentary on how that particular group of people he is with had changed over the years.

    I've been in a guild since 2004, the kind that exists only in one game, and I am having a pretty good time with the PvP combat in Vendetta Online in that context (the game has been running for even longer).

    Why can't you find a game? Maybe it's time to retrain your brain. <insert subliminal ads here>

    Maybe, just maybe, games these days are shallow cashgrabs while games used to be experiments in innovation? Maybe there are many millions of gamers who used to love the old vision of what a virtual world could bring to the world of roleplaying MUDers and MMORPGers and now can't stand the genre due to it being so shallow not even your toes are covered in water. Maybe, just maybe all of you yelling for us to accept the current games, and/or play the oldgames that we used to like until the got patch-butchered to accommodate as many people at once as possible, and while doing so removed all the life out of the virtual world.

    I would say to anyone who thinks there are good games out right now, please write a list of games released 2015-16 that you would consider masterpieces.

    For me there has only been one game worth playing so far in 2016, that games name is TSW, they launched it as a MMO, but everyone ingame call it a coop, multiplayer with solo/singleplayer storyline.

    Other than TSW my list would be something like...

    age of wulin... ee öö blade and soul? oh and maybe lets say overwatch... cause come on, you know there are people calling it a mmo =P



  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,662
    Iselin said:
    So OP. If you don't like someting, shut up and GTFO. Ok. I'll take that under consideration.

    Anyway, I'm in a guild/group of people since 2009, there has been many people in the guild over the years, but mostly what they had in common was that they want to pvp, have fun and have competition since we kinda always aim for the top. 

    Lo and behold, we're still together, there's tons of people, and we're all disappointed by the MMOs of today. So we're mostly doing our own things and waiting for a decent MMO. And here you are, trying to say to all those people, that they need to just put up with all the bullshit the developers pull? People've been in plenty of alphas and varius testing, you would think that they listen to testers, well, mostly they did not. Biggest recent offenders were the Wildstar devs, they simply didn't care or had the idea they know everything. Well, the results speak for themselves. 

    Meh, I could go on for pages why it is how it is, it's a complex issue, but as far as I'm concerned, for our group of peeps, it boils down to: a lot of players that value competition and good combat mechanics simply don't have fun with the new games. And even if you know what's wrong, say it to devs, well, somehow that which annoys us never gets fixed or added. 
    So if I understand what you're saying, you're part of a community that has shared values and since you're a group and have similar views, your collective assessment of the state of today's MMORPGs carries added weight because several of you share that opinion.

    It's a common logical fallacy and there have been many examples throughout history of groups being dead certain (literally so in some cases) about some things even though they're wrong.

    See Heaven's Gate for example. 

    I for one just spent about 16 hours this past weekend PVPing in ESO and having a blast doing it. Luckily I'm not part of a jaded group too elite to enjoy that type of "lesser" entertainment. And yeah, I have been doing this in MMOs for about 17 years.
    The bandwagon fallacy aka argumentum ad populum.

    Alternately, without resorting to comparisons of Heaven's Gate, the comment of @Beowulfsam could be viewed as a commentary on how that particular group of people he is with had changed over the years.

    I've been in a guild since 2004, the kind that exists only in one game, and I am having a pretty good time with the PvP combat in Vendetta Online in that context (the game has been running for even longer).

    Why can't you find a game? Maybe it's time to retrain your brain. <insert subliminal ads here>
    Judging from what you've shared about your long term gaming history and relationships I'm not sure the position of why there are no good MMMORPGs to play would really be comprehensible to you.

    I've been where they are, and realise if not for EVE I'd likely have nothing I would enjoy playing.

    There is a very real dearth of certain game designs out there that I'm sure there is a significant number of like minded individuals who are unhaappy with the situation.

    Forget all the Latin logic arguments, the market is clearly lacking in choices regardless how many folks are content in playing what is available.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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