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class changes put me off buying legion :(

rush1984rush1984 Member UncommonPosts: 369
edited July 2016 in World of Warcraft
After a year of not playing wow, the longest time since 2005 i thought id give wow a go and check out the new class changes.
Ive played every major patch every expac every change this game has made and none have quite put me off as much as these ones.
Every class in game now has only 4-5 spells in rotation ( and some utility)but thats not the biggest put off , the rotations themselves are mind numbingly boring ! ( atleast for me and alot of other players as shown on the official forums).
How anyone could want to level to 110 like that is crazy, People will say "yeah but its better at 110 because its tuned for that" sorry but no its not gonna be the case this time.
I know blizzard like to simplify but this has made this game pathetic now.

I'm Glad in a way its put that final nail in for me to be honest i needed it, resubbing every x amount of months always ends in a waste of money.
Its the kiddies time to play now and i dont mean that as an insult, the game has been reworked completely for a very young audience.

Hopefully they will make a vanilla server (legacy) i think its extremely likely now as this new expac will do worst than WOD.
Its only way they will get me and my community and friends to play wow again

ps this isnt a angry rant , i subbed to try the changes and i didnt like it half expected it  im not that bothered about it just disappointed :dizzy:

Post edited by rush1984 on
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Comments

  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    edited July 2016
    AFAIK, they tried to do away with rotations by making abilities more dynamic and situational. I guess they either failed - or some people are stuck in the past about how there must be an optimal rotation for all battles.

    Personally, this is the first time I'm actually a little excited about an expansion since TBC. I stopped playing WoW on a serious basis back in 2007 or something like that.

    I love how every single class feels fresh right now. I'm sure some specs will end up sucking in one way or the other, but Blizzard aren't afraid of fixing things.

    But we're talking about 12 classes with 30 active abilities on their action bars at level 100. How many more do you need to make them fun? GW2 has, what, 10-20 at max? ESO has 12. Also, we're talking 3 specs pr. class with very significant differences.

    That's not to say it's a new game or anything - and I'll probably be bored sooner rather than later. But right now, I'm enjoying it more than I have in years and years.

    I'm currently trying out the new Outlaw Rogue spec - and it's a lot of fun. Animations feel good, look good and the sound effects are great.

    Talents represent much harder choices than before - which is exactly as they should be.

    Now, I'm not a fan of pruning abilities in general - but they've certainly done a ton of work adding new ones and updating the feel. This is no mindless "streamlining" job. This is clearly about trying to get back to class/spec distinction.

    Time will tell if it works in the long term.
  • BizkitNLBizkitNL Member RarePosts: 2,541
    Huh? My fury warrior has 7 skills in rotation (6 technically, 1 is execute), and thats without the artifact skill(s).

    Something tells me you haven't done enough effort to check things out. But that's fine I guess.
    10
  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 4,074
    edited July 2016
    What I do not like is that the classes stopped feeling unique. In recent expansions, every class had number of stuns, half of the classes had some sort of stealth, almost every class had some sort of pet, almost every class could heal itself, etc.

    In early expacs, greater differences between individual classes made them feel more unique. It is something I miss in recent expansions. This and talent trees.
  • PsYcHoGBRPsYcHoGBR Member UncommonPosts: 480
    As Biz said there's the artifact skill tree when Legion arrives. I've linked a calculator below showing the skill trees. 

    http://beta.wowdb.com/artifact-calculator 
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,073
    Yes classes should be unique which is something I always loved about Everquest, you were defined by your class. It made playing a class special.

    This is another reason I loved City of Heroes/Villains as it allowed you through the choice of power sets to be what you envisioned your hero or villain to be. God how I miss that game.
    Chamber of Chains
  • wandericawanderica Member UncommonPosts: 368
    edited July 2016
    It put me off too.  Honestly though, I've played Warcraft in some form since some of our forum members were in diapers, so I'll play it for the lore and story.  I haven't played seriously in years though, and all the changes and dumbing down of the game certainly isn't making me want to play long term.  Nowadays, I just pretend it's a single player RPG, queue up for a few LFR runs, and cancel sub til next x-pack.


  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,851
    edited July 2016
    Blizzard continues to move further and further away from what made people love this game. Well, me anyway.

    Do they even know what they are doing anymore?
  • GainsNGamesGainsNGames Member UncommonPosts: 107
    The patch  is balanced around  the  changes coming to the legion expansion, specifically  the artifact  weapon system.  Any excuse to hate on this game, it's unreal. 
  • WarlyxWarlyx Member RarePosts: 3,126
    Blizz destroyed shaman :( , the new resource sucks , now every class has a builder and spender...enh was one of the few classes that was CD based , now is based around maelstrom....

    dont like that classes are balanced around the artifact.... no artifact = u suck , but others classes dont have this problem and the artifact just enhance the class instead of "fix it" ....

    the new DH is cool but the gameplay is bare bones , 1 builder , 1 spender for single , 1 for aoe .... 1 stun , meta (CD) and thats basicall all u have , the only interesting thing is using fel rush as dps boost...if u take the talent thats it ....
  • AvarixAvarix Member RarePosts: 665
    I was worried with the removal of so many skills. Before the Legion Pre-patch I liked the combat that was closer to vanilla. It just didn't feel as fun with a lot of the spells/abilities removed on my Shaman.

    After playing with the pre-patch class changes though, on a priest and shaman, I think they did a great job. A lot of the abilities are gone, no denying that. It feels good though. It feels fluid and, more importantly, fun. Instead of paying attention to my toolbar I can now pay more attention to what's going on in the world and I am enjoying it, far more than I thought I would. 

    I thought I was going to hate it even more after the Legion class changes since they just keep pruning abilities. I kept viewing it as the dumbing down of combat. I think what is going on with classes now though is what they have been aiming for since the pruning started. While there a lot less abilities the combat actually feels pretty damn good now. Simply put, it's fun. You may want to give it a shot for yourself. On paper it sounds pretty terrible but in practice I am really enjoying it.
  • DEATHRAMENTDEATHRAMENT Member UncommonPosts: 701
    I don't care much for the changes they made to holy paladin's. Find it awkward now, With that said i do like the changes to mistweaver monks. Feels much better now,
  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383
    The patch  is balanced around  the  changes coming to the legion expansion, specifically  the artifact  weapon system.  Any excuse to hate on this game, it's unreal. 
    While people often do take any excuse to hate on the game, character growth during vanilla and tBC was about 25 million times more fun than it is now, and I don't even think thats hyperbole.

    And I actually don't think Blizzard is that wrong with their talent system offering more meaningful choice than the old trees, its just the old trees were more fun.

    And saying 'classes are balanced around the artifact' doesn't cut it.  WoW's rise in popularity was during the time period where the game did NOT begin at max level, it was the journey that was what endeared people to the game.  Now, even with the more entertaining questing from the Cata revamp, it has lost a good deal of what made it special.  So the people that actually enjoy the leveling process are left out in the cold here.  What was once a fun, rewarding journey is now a shell of what it used to be.
  • MpfiveMpfive Member UncommonPosts: 308
    edited July 2016
    PsYcHoGBR said:
    As Biz said there's the artifact skill tree when Legion arrives. I've linked a calculator below showing the skill trees. 

    http://beta.wowdb.com/artifact-calculator 
    They are all passives, that hardly counts
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,408
    Enough salt to fill an ocean.  Lack of skills is where MMO's are headed.  Action combat the bane of the MMO has finally struck.  People seem to like having 3 to 6 skills for the life of the game.
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,141
    edited July 2016
    DKLond said:
    AFAIK, they tried to do away with rotations by making abilities more dynamic and situational. I guess they either failed - or some people are stuck in the past about how there must be an optimal rotation for all battles.

    Personally, this is the first time I'm actually a little excited about an expansion since TBC. I stopped playing WoW on a serious basis back in 2007 or something like that.

    I love how every single class feels fresh right now. I'm sure some specs will end up sucking in one way or the other, but Blizzard aren't afraid of fixing things.

    But we're talking about 12 classes with 30 active abilities on their action bars at level 100. How many more do you need to make them fun? GW2 has, what, 10-20 at max? ESO has 12. Also, we're talking 3 specs pr. class with very significant differences.

    That's not to say it's a new game or anything - and I'll probably be bored sooner rather than later. But right now, I'm enjoying it more than I have in years and years.

    I'm currently trying out the new Outlaw Rogue spec - and it's a lot of fun. Animations feel good, look good and the sound effects are great.

    Talents represent much harder choices than before - which is exactly as they should be.

    Now, I'm not a fan of pruning abilities in general - but they've certainly done a ton of work adding new ones and updating the feel. This is no mindless "streamlining" job. This is clearly about trying to get back to class/spec distinction.

    Time will tell if it works in the long term.
    Its called boring not dynamic.  Dynamic is having choices lots of them, and no, situational is having choices based on others moves, lots of them, not one or two.  What this is is another massive simplification of classes.  

    My friend who has been playing his pally since launch has quit.  He came in to work and said dude, Blizzard just idiocracyed their classes,  like the OP said, even his pally is now just a 4 skill boring rotation, the other tank pally in his raiding guild ( Jolly Rogers is their name ) is in complete agreement.

    I was considering coming back to play my druid, not going to touch it.  The gutting of the skill trees last expansion, and making half my dynamic skills boring passives, pissed me off, this pisses me off even more.

     Cant fight the simplification of MMO's at this point.  You can just choose to not play them and find the one or two left that still give you complex, dfynamic skill rotations.
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
     "Complex, dynamic, skill rotations". Can someone explain to me how a complex dynamic skill rotation would work? I've never played WoW before.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,141
    edited July 2016
     "Complex, dynamic, skill rotations". Can someone explain to me how a complex dynamic skill rotation would work? I've never played WoW before.
    Ill try, you have 15 or move active abilities to choose from, you need to keep complex rotations going to have the best possible DPS, on top of the that the person your PvPing against has an equally large tool kit.

    As the two of you are winding through your rotations, you have to start altering those complex rotations to counter whatever it is the player is doing, so the rotations start to change dynamically, and no two duels or encounters are the same, because there as so  many possible skills to use ( not 4 ) that combinations based on the counters are almost endless, until someone dies.

    Raid encounters and mob grinding is far less dynamic, its still nice to have 15 or more skills to work through when juggling multiple mobs ( not talking AOE spamming ) but its rare an npc causes you to change your rotation.

    Now imagine the same encounters with one small bar of skills to choose from.  Boring......easy but boring.
  • GainsNGamesGainsNGames Member UncommonPosts: 107
    edited July 2016
    Complex, dynamic, skilled... sounds like a Neil Peart drum solo. FlyByKnight, syriinx... I see we got some Rush fans  in the house. nice.

    You can pretty much called it WOW 2. The game is nothing like it was back in vanilla. Doesn't mean it's  a bad MMO. I think people  just need to stop complaining and comparing it to vanilla wow.  It's just not the same game.

     Blizzard is not trying to bring WOW back to its glory days, or else they would of done it already.  The game is just trying to stay competitive in the current mmo market. Hence , alot of the changes to pvp and  skills/abilities. 

    The hardcore MMO is dead. Wait for legacy servers or just don't play Legion,  it's that simple.




  • rush1984rush1984 Member UncommonPosts: 369
    goboygo said:
     "Complex, dynamic, skill rotations". Can someone explain to me how a complex dynamic skill rotation would work? I've never played WoW before.
    Ill try, you have 15 or move active abilities to choose from, you need to keep complex rotations going to have the best possible DPS, on top of the that the person your PvPing against has an equally large tool kit.

    As the two of you are winding through your rotations, you have to start altering those complex rotations to counter whatever it is the player is doing, so the rotations start to change dynamically, and no two duels or encounters are the same, because there as so  many possible skills to use ( not 4 ) that combinations based on the counters are almost endless, until someone dies.

    Raid encounters and mob grinding is far less dynamic, its still nice to have 15 or more skills to work through when juggling multiple mobs ( not talking AOE spamming ) but its rare an npc causes you to change your rotation.

    Now imagine the same encounters with one small bar of skills to choose from.  Boring......easy but boring.
    this 100% 

    you have hit the nail on teh head mate


  • Dagon13Dagon13 Member UncommonPosts: 566
    Warlyx said:
    Blizz destroyed shaman :( , the new resource sucks , now every class has a builder and spender...enh was one of the few classes that was CD based , now is based around maelstrom....

    dont like that classes are balanced around the artifact.... no artifact = u suck , but others classes dont have this problem and the artifact just enhance the class instead of "fix it" ....

    the new DH is cool but the gameplay is bare bones , 1 builder , 1 spender for single , 1 for aoe .... 1 stun , meta (CD) and thats basicall all u have , the only interesting thing is using fel rush as dps boost...if u take the talent thats it ....
    I think you nailed the reason I don't play anymore, resource mechanics.  I never liked rogue because of their resource mechanics.  I've always been a huge fan of paladin, death knight, and monk style classes.  When the DK came out I couldn't stand playing them because of the resource mechanic.  Monk came out with same lame system.  Now all of the classes that I enjoy use the same resource mechanics with a different flavor of UI.

    I used to praise blizzard for their fearlessness when it came to class changes, but all they did here was create mana 2.0 and gave that to everyone instead.  Unfortunately for me, in my opinion it's more like mana .05.  
  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Member RarePosts: 1,607
    edited July 2016
    I vaguely remember Blizzard saying they wanted to simplify things so they could focus more on encounter tuning and design. I really don't understand the whining when it comes to PVE. The abilities that most classes lost were utility based i.e. Enhancement Shamans lost some totems, Paladins lost some utility blessings, etc. 

    Almost every class had extremely simple rotations/priorities way before this patch.
    It's fine to say, "I miss my utility abilities." 
    But people are saying, "They simplified everything and took away too much." 
    The truth is that in PVE raiding most classes press the same amount of buttons, or more, as they did prior to this patch. 

    Admittedly, I think PVP is going to be complete garbage because so many classes lost so much utility. 

    And for those of you thinking everything is dumbed down to a point of being hilariously simple, I recommend healing a Mythic 5 man with a gear appropriate Discipline Priest. 
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,669
    edited July 2016
    I'm actually looking forward to some of the class changes. I think they should get rid of rotations and make every class viable however you want to use their skills instead of forcing people to maximize their damage stats with a mandatory rotation for each role. That is my main issue with WoW, so much focus on raiding has ruined the game because if you don't follow the best rotation you suck.

    One thing i really don't like is the removal of Gladiator Stance on Warriors. I was looking forward to DPSing with a big weapon and big shield in hand. I have no reason to change from Fury now.




  • ThupliThupli Member RarePosts: 1,318


    I think the reality is that with sinking subs, they are looking to open platforms and steam to boost more profit by tapping more untapped markets. Before they do this, they have to reduce skill numbers to match controller button numbers.

  • axtrantiaxtranti Member UncommonPosts: 86
    Complex, dynamic, skilled... sounds like a Neil Peart drum solo. FlyByKnight, syriinx... I see we got some Rush fans  in the house. nice.

    You can pretty much called it WOW 2. The game is nothing like it was back in vanilla. Doesn't mean it's  a bad MMO. I think people  just need to stop complaining and comparing it to vanilla wow.  It's just not the same game.

     Blizzard is not trying to bring WOW back to its glory days, or else they would of done it already.  The game is just trying to stay competitive in the current mmo market. Hence , alot of the changes to pvp and  skills/abilities. 

    The hardcore MMO is dead. Wait for legacy servers or just don't play Legion,  it's that simple.




    Hardcore mmo market when almost all vanilla p servers have more active players than 10 retail realms combined. Just because some games are not popular in the western player base doesn't mean they are not popular. Hardcore MMOs have not died nor ever will, at least as of now. Just because you're a Blizzard fanboy and like WoW regardless of whatever shit they dip in, doesn't make it good.

    Legion is just a big hype like every other expansion, WoW will be alive for 1-3 months after Legion release and then gravity will do the rest. I will enjoy this.

    asdasdasd

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,669
    edited July 2016
    Thupli said:


    I think the reality is that with sinking subs, they are looking to open platforms and steam to boost more profit by tapping more untapped markets. Before they do this, they have to reduce skill numbers to match controller button numbers.

    That would actually be a good idea. They know they will not get 12 million people ever again with WoW. Going cross platform would totally help, but probably not as much considering PS4/XBO players would have 2 subs to pay (XBGold/PS+ and WoW). XIV is doing well overall but due to it being cross server most people playing on consoles also came from PC.




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