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Watch the Skies

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129

imageWatch the Skies

Summer weather, holidays and plagues have left us with a skeletal City State Entertainment (CSE) but that didn’t stop them from getting us our weekly update featuring steamy streams, community management and a vile villain for me to opine over. It was a bit shorter than usual but it had pretty pictures in it so I didn’t mind. Here’s one below showing what testers are doing with the ever more impressive C.U.B.E.

Read the full story here



¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


Comments

  • FilburFilbur Member UncommonPosts: 254
    Am I the only one who thinks that the C.U.B.E buildings are kind of immersion breaking and will look pretty out of place in the game world? I'm all for user generated content, but these look straight out of Minecraft.
  • blumsblums Member UncommonPosts: 10
    This game is going to fail.
  • Syphin_BSyphin_B Member UncommonPosts: 338
    edited July 2016
    This game is failing as is and to think...they were talking about Beta Ilast WINTER...then delayed to Spring and now were towards the end of summer and we haven't seen the slightest bit of gameplay from the studio, hell we haven't even seen a spell animation.

    Just rough art concepts is all i ever see or some landscape screenshot.. i don't even see beta happening up this coming October/November and that's if everything goes smoothly and with a bit of luck. Maybe December of this year...is what i'm thinking

    I really think they took on more they could handle, decided to build a in-house engine with such a small team of coders, i think MJ bit off more then he could chew and now City State is here in the middle of summer with a game nowhere near playable . So i look back and wonder how in the hell did they think last winter was a timetable for beta??? It's nowhere even near alpha from the looks of it.

    Just sad because there was so much hype for this game and i'm pretty sure it's dying down, i know a few people myself that invested in the game have now asked for refunds myself including.

    I then take notice of a game called Crowfall which was announced way after CU and they have a actual playable product and even some gameplay video, now i know they went with a bought game engine but hey... progress is progress, at least they have something that's nearly playable...even if it's just for combat testing.

    Then you got CSE over here posting concept art of swords and this minecraft style housing stuff that looks horrid , which i'm pretty sure is very early stuff but still...it's not pretty and nowhere near even ready. This game has huge promises and as a oldschool DAoC player i was extremely happy to hear about the creation of this game but now hearing delay and delay and apologies, i'm over it. This game has got another 1+ years at the very least of development before we'll get anything that could be a released product. At least we have Crowfall to look forward to , to whet out appetites for a realm-driven PvP styled game. Great to tune into their twitch to watch them play some homemade style cardgame while on break. I'm sure we'll see a incoming "another delay" live stream soon


  • GladDogGladDog Member RarePosts: 1,097
    It may be frustrating to wait for games to finish or even go to beta, but the game developers want to release a game they are proud of, not a buggy gloppy mess that gets thrown under the bus.  If the devs don't think it is ready, I would believe them.  It is not that they are lazy, they just found more stuff than they were expecting that needed fixing.  Or something like enemy AI is too strong /weak /unreactive.  Don't think they are screwing you!  It is exactly the opposite.

    See Hellgate: London, Vanguard: SoH and several others to see the results of releasing an unfinished product on their fans.  Vanguard was actually fixed up and from what I understand was a very good game about a year after release, but it was too late.  Same scenario applies to H: L.


    The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!


  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Filbur said:
    Am I the only one who thinks that the C.U.B.E buildings are kind of immersion breaking and will look pretty out of place in the game world? I'm all for user generated content, but these look straight out of Minecraft.
    It does seem really weird. Felt the same way about Landmark and that at least had a little more variation.

    Half the time when I see these screenshots I'm not sure if its CU or Trove.


  • XxPriestxXXxPriestxX Member UncommonPosts: 133
    If you look really, really, really, REALLY close..... oh nvm, I see what you guys are saying. Beta Q1 next year anyone? Any takers at all? XD
    Trolling, being trolled, getting banned, yelling at mods, getting perma banned, making new accounts, and still trolling this site since 2004 =D
  • Syphin_BSyphin_B Member UncommonPosts: 338
    I just really think the in-house engine with the lack of coders really set them far behind.
  • blastermasterblastermaster Member UncommonPosts: 259

    Syphin_B said:

    I just really think the in-house engine with the lack of coders really set them far behind.



    This.
    But only time will tell if it was all worth it though.
    They (we) can still hope it will play to their advantage in the end.

    While I'm also looking forward to Crowfall, I'm just not super confident in Unity's ability to handle a couple hundreds of player characters at once on screen along with destruction,etc. Things have probably progressed on that end and people will probably tell me I'm wrong and it can run smoothly, but I will believe it when I see it.

    So here we are.
    On one end we have playable "demos" that show up a bit more about combat gameplay and "pretty lights", and on the other we have a tech. demo that focus on laying the basis for a real RvR game with lots of players from all factions all regrouped in a small place with destruction, physics, etc.

    None is close to be where it should be for our impatient kind... and both could still hit a wall.


  • FranciscourantFranciscourant Member UncommonPosts: 356
    edited July 2016

    Filbur said:

    Am I the only one who thinks that the C.U.B.E buildings are kind of immersion breaking and will look pretty out of place in the game world? I'm all for user generated content, but these look straight out of Minecraft.

    It will depend on the improvements they make until launch. So far they've been working on new materials, textures, different shapes for the mats, lighting and probably other things that may improve the look of the structures. They've shown recently the progress they've made on the tech that allows players to build circular structures and it should help to have buildings that look less blocky. Some images of the progress made so far, still a lot to do:






    There are also some simple methods to make flat or blocky materials look more textured, like tessellation, and it can make a big difference:
  • NanulakNanulak Member UncommonPosts: 372

    Filbur said:

    Am I the only one who thinks that the C.U.B.E buildings are kind of immersion breaking and will look pretty out of place in the game world? I'm all for user generated content, but these look straight out of Minecraft.



    While in testing and development people have infinite and instant resources. People have instant build times, there is no material and tool degradation. There are no wars burning the places down and there are no constraints on the size of constructs or how much land they occupy.

    All that will change come real time play. As one who has tested the prototype of slower building even without the needed time to gather the materials. It totally changed my scope and material choices while building. Once all the limitations are put into the building system and it takes 6 to 18 months to build some of these grandiose extravagant structures. Then more realistic and less costly structures will be the mainstay of all structures in the game.

    So do not fret, reality will bring things back down to earth for in game player made constructs.

    Nanulak

  • Syphin_BSyphin_B Member UncommonPosts: 338
    I'm glad to see most agreed with me and didn't take it as "flaming" CU because i'll be first to say.. i'm waiting with baited breath for this product and i understand the need for this engine and the need for it to be at 60 fps during these big battles.

    But with the amount of coders they had and the work that was needed, it was just a head scratching decision. I mean they kept saying "Beta this winter" then "Beta this spring" , now i'm just seeing actually modeling for weapons...so what even in the hell gave them any idea what they'd have the game even near in beta condition is beyond me.

    I'm already preparing myself for another beta delayed video and they'll say early fall, but in the end i don't see it until probably after Christmas.

    I still think MJ's vision was just too big, over 30 classes...5-6 different races per-realm, the ability builder, i mean even a team with Blizzard money would have their hands full with this type of game. It just bums me out because my hype has completely dwindled, i still read the newsletters and try to watch these twitch streams but...i just don't care anymore.
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098

    Dullahan said:


    Filbur said:

    Am I the only one who thinks that the C.U.B.E buildings are kind of immersion breaking and will look pretty out of place in the game world? I'm all for user generated content, but these look straight out of Minecraft.


    It does seem really weird. Felt the same way about Landmark and that at least had a little more variation.

    Half the time when I see these screenshots I'm not sure if its CU or Trove.



    You must be joking, it looks absolutely nothing like Trove.
    ....
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,442

    Syphin_B said:


    I still think MJ's vision was just too big, over 30 classes...5-6 different races per-realm, the ability builder, i mean even a team with Blizzard money would have their hands full with this type of game. It just bums me out because my hype has completely dwindled, i still read the newsletters and try to watch these twitch streams but...i just don't care anymore.



    I actually think MJs vision is relatively narrow in comparison to most MMOs, but maybe that is because MJ is focusing on systems whereas most MMOs focus on content. MJ may be creating some complicated systems for CU, but he doesn't have to create 5000 meaningless quests, complicated raids, dungeons etc.


    I personally don't think Blizzard would have the capability to build CU, not due to funding but due to lack of vision. Blizzard are the kings of accessibility and nothing else. They take existing ideas / gameplay / mechanics and make them accessible for the masses.


    This is why CSE are having delays. They aren't being derivative, they are breaking the mould and creating entirely new systems and ways of making an MMO. These systems are so complicated that of course there are going to be delays due to unforeseen issues.


    I still have faith that CU will launch and be a successful product in relation to its budget. Yeh, we're going to have to wait a long time still and that sucks, but I'm happy to wait for the right game as I'm fed up of current MMO market. I also think CU will be a bigger success than Crowfall. CF, by buying existing engines that aren't designed for mass pvp, are just setting themselves up for failure. It may allow them to develop quicker and release the game quicker, but the end product just wont be suited to the games goals as well as CUs will.

  • NibsNibs Member UncommonPosts: 287
    The simplest "fix" for the CUBE buildings looking like Minecraft is to simply round all the stark 90° angles on everything.
  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 624
    The main issue is that the voxels are quite huge (looks like about 1m^3) and thus nothing has true detail. They would have to add a model based detail system for it to be really usable for immersive builds.

    For instance in the above shots, if you look at the handrails in the shot with the character on the bridge, the railing should fit in the char's hand but is actually half as thick as he is high. It's just totally out of whack in terms of size and that is what mainly ruins the immersion and makes it looks so clunky.

    Same goes for the main structure of the bridge, the beams are just big beams three times as thick as the character with no detail on them, plus the textures are unoriented (looks like they use triplanar mapping) and thus can not add true detail.
    Landmark had the same issue and added mesh based objects to for details. I am guessing they will choose a similar approach and then most of these complaints will cease. Right now it just looks clunky and undetailed, but that's ok at this early stage and will hopefully change.

  • JermzyJermzy Member UncommonPosts: 211
    edited July 2016
    They have been addressing the biggest killer of pvp games, Lag. I would rather have them fix this now rather than wait and try to put a band-aid on it after release or in beta. Also, I love it when people critique graphics on a game that is still in Alpha.

    Yep, the delays have sucked. Such is life. Suck it up buttercups. :) Edit: Have fun lol
    Haroo!
  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Member UncommonPosts: 568
    Star Citizen and Chris Roberts ruined backer programs and any type of founders program, early access etc. for me.
    Thus, I will wait for official release of this game.
  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 624
    Jermzy said:
    They have been addressing the biggest killer of pvp games, Lag. I would rather have them fix this now rather than wait and try to put a band-aid on it after release or in beta. Also, I love it when people critique graphics on a game that is still in Alpha.

    Yep, the delays have sucked. Such is life. Suck it up buttercups. :) Edit: Have fun lol
    Agree it's great to see they are adressing lag and big battles right from the start. Building it correctly from the ground up is the way to go.

    I disagree with the critique part. Any media you put out, will be critiqued. That's just how it works. It's part of going public so early. They won't lose a drop of sweat over it.

    The delays don't phase me at all, kinda expect them from KS projects. They can't plan ahead as exactly as a big project with a fixed-from-the-start budget could, it's all more fluid.
    Plus with a smaller team, every little hickup has a more pronounced effect (like for instance when they couldn't find good programmers for a while). Poop happens, always. Harder to compensate if you are pushing the limits already.

  • FranciscourantFranciscourant Member UncommonPosts: 356
    edited July 2016
    Syphin_B said:
    I then take notice of a game called Crowfall which was announced way after CU and they have a actual playable product and even some gameplay video, now i know they went with a bought game engine but hey... progress is progress, at least they have something that's nearly playable...even if it's just for combat testing.

    Then you got CSE over here posting concept art of swords and this minecraft style housing stuff that looks horrid , which i'm pretty sure is very early stuff but still...it's not pretty and nowhere near even ready. This game has huge promises and as a oldschool DAoC player i was extremely happy to hear about the creation of this game but now hearing delay and delay and apologies, i'm over it. This game has got another 1+ years at the very least of development before we'll get anything that could be a released product. At least we have Crowfall to look forward to , to whet out appetites for a realm-driven PvP styled game. Great to tune into their twitch to watch them play some homemade style cardgame while on break. I'm sure we'll see a incoming "another delay" live stream soon
    The teams behind CU and CF took very different approaches to build their game, even though both studios began developing their game around the same moment, mid 2013, and aim for similar goals: PvP focused MMO, player-driven economy, RvR, low PvE / no quest, etc.

    CU budget comes almost entirely from backers' pledges and founders' contribution, there was already a huge pool of potential backers (former WAR & DAoC players), it used traditional development (engine & server tech > systems > art) with NDA and in-house tech.

    CF budget comes in majority from venture capital (~61%), the pool of potential backers for CF was smaller (mostly former Shadowbane and DF players), and it used non traditional development (art > systems & tech) with no NDA and existing tech.

    Right now CF may look more polished than CU but it's not necessarily representative of greater progress or earlier launch date, I think it simply reflects the choices mentioned above that those studios made to build their game.

    In CU we can render about 600 bots in a small area with hundreds of structures, hundreds of trees and objects, very large maps, etc. at ~30 fps, while in CF the characters and environment look polished, but with 30 characters on screen, one large structure, a few monsters and a pretty small map, the FPS often drop at less than 30. 

    We'll see how things go until launch, but I'm confident Camelot Unchained is going to be a very high quality MMORPG with great graphics, performances and gameplay. "When?" is my only concern. =P
  • ThupliThupli Member RarePosts: 1,318
    Funny comments here. This site is full of people wanting 3 way battles, unique classes, and quality engines, but when the work/time is required to make an excellent game, then they start complaining about timelines.

    I am content to wait, there aren't any games on the market that interest me right now.

    Ps- I think cube looks amazing. As a more pve player than pvp player, I think cube is going to add so much depth and repay ability . Can't wait! (get it? ;))
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    Star Citizen and Chris Roberts ruined backer programs and any type of founders program, early access etc. for me.
    Thus, I will wait for official release of this game.
    I find that odd. 

    Wouldn't it make more sense to cite games that have outright failed to produce anything rather then something that is still in production and HAS produced something as a reason to dislike crowdfunded projects?
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