I enjoyed this game years ago and I played it with two friends I met in Everquest while it was still on subs. We really played the game a lot and I am sad that the game has become less popular but it was a good game. This was before Mines of Moria.
If you want a simple, billion dollar idea for an MMORPG, it's like this.
1) Make an MMO that's different from everyone and everything else. New lore, new art styles, new concepts. Good luck; you'll have to be super creative here.
2) After you've made this for your primary console, be it PC, PS4, XboX, etc, hire UI experts
3) Have these UI experts work to code mobile-functionality for essential in-game functions via your phone that don't require your PC to manage. For context, I'll use Archeage. Having a game as complex as Archeage is great. Now imagine you're at work, you want to check your crops, but don't want to use a VPN to get into the game remotely. What if there was an entirely new and different app, specifically for your phone, that also plugged into the game? One that basically just showed you a plot of your land, or the AH with prices for items. It'd basically be a "ghost" that ignores the world, but is still present in it, and has access to critical functions.
Expanding even further, let's take FF14. A mobile equivalent that looks to the tune of, say, FF6, to reduce hardware strain, yet carries over functionality, gains, and achievements to your FF14 sprite.
4) Figure out the proper code of monetization for this access; in a simple world? A subscription fee for access to the breadth of mobile apps that allow this level of functionality if so desired.
There you go. Figure out how to do this, and to do it well, and you'll make more money than god. People can then effectively always "connect" to their game of choice, allows your game to be F2P with a "premiere" option that actually is premiere. Walah, billions of dollars.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Right. The key is monetizing it in a way that isn't egregious *OR* necessary, but pleasurable.
Technically, you might not even need such apps. However, the goal is to refine them and keep working on them to be so useful and desirable that people are interested in a $2.99 fee or something along those lines.
Think about it. If you had a F2P game with a 3 dollar subscription fee for that kind of tertiary support, could you REALLY complain about it? Even a high schooler can save up 3 bucks a month.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I thought you were onto something until you said the words "subscription fee"...Thats where the great idea ended
I'm a fairly die-hard F2P supporter and quite anit-sub. However, I can admit that the way forward for this genera is in small, niche products with a subscription, as that's the only way they're going to get a steady enough stream of income to support themselves.
The problem I have with current MMO subscriptions is that the standard $15 and month is bogus and simply not worth it for a single game. Smaller MMO projects going forward are going to have to look at lowering the price.
I hate subs, but I don't think $5 a month would be all that unreasonable for the upcoming crop of indie MMOs, especially with their limited scopes and likely slow frequency of updates.
The standard $15 sub and the freemium "F2P" models we have now are for those companies still humping the corpse of what MMOs were. That's fine for those that simply want to make the most money they can without any regard for the longevity of their game or their community. But, for MMOs to have any sort of future things are going to have to change.
Yeah I don't agree.
$5? for a small population game?
let's say they got 100k players. that's only $500k.
That's not going to pay for much unless the team is super small (two people?). And actually, come to think of it, they don't get to keep all of that anyway because there are a variety of taxes not to mention the fringe that comes with employing people.
Unless these are people who are just doing this out of the goodness of their heart and do it part time. However, in that scenario, eventually they grow up and realize that their efforts are piggy backing on their own day jobs and life and I can see retention being a huge issue.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
If you're shooting to have the best graphics, the deepest content, the best musical score, etc, than sure, $5 is not gonna cut it. But with reasonable goals, a smaller team is manageable.
Let's cut it in half to 50k subscribers, at $250k a month. At the end of the year, assuming you hold moderately steady, you'd make 2.5-3million a year. That's not too shabby!
Now you figure if you're focusing on "What am I bringing to the table?" as opposed to "Best. MMO. Ever." in every category, you can make a compelling game. And I think that element is where so many studios lose their way, trying to do everything well.
For example, if you were playing an MMO with 64-bit graphics, but they were polished, and the gameplay was tight, with an excellent crafting system, you can spend substantially less than if you're requiring up-to-date Unreal 4 cutting edge graphics. It's just about balance.
If you're telling me you can't make a game on $3,000,000 a year, I'm just saying you're wrong. If you're telling me you can't make Destiny with $3,000,000, well... of course not :P
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
If you're shooting to have the best graphics, the deepest content, the best musical score, etc, than sure, $5 is not gonna cut it. But with reasonable goals, a smaller team is manageable.
Let's cut it in half to 50k subscribers, at $250k a month. At the end of the year, assuming you hold moderately steady, you'd make 2.5-3million a year. That's not too shabby!
Now you figure if you're focusing on "What am I bringing to the table?" as opposed to "Best. MMO. Ever." in every category, you can make a compelling game. And I think that element is where so many studios lose their way, trying to do everything well.
For example, if you were playing an MMO with 64-bit graphics, but they were polished, and the gameplay was tight, with an excellent crafting system, you can spend substantially less than if you're requiring up-to-date Unreal 4 cutting edge graphics. It's just about balance.
If you're telling me you can't make a game on $3,000,000 a year, I'm just saying you're wrong. If you're telling me you can't make Destiny with $3,000,000, well... of course not :P
No I'm not saying a "Destiny" but I wonder if that 3 million per year is going to do it if you are going to have a small team (why the hell am I getting stupid emoji's every time I type? they are just popping up) and pay them a rate that is going to make them want to stay.
Remember, that 3 million is not all kept. There are State, local and Federal taxes. That 100k salary for a developer salary is more like 125k for benefits and the like. And this is not taking into account actually renting a commercial property if you want your team to stay together and equipment, licensing software, etc.
How small a game are you talking? The one where you can turn into a Cow (the name escapes me at the moment) that was developed by 2 people or Pantheon that has 20 something people?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I thought you were onto something until you said the words "subscription fee"...Thats where the great idea ended
I'm a fairly die-hard F2P supporter and quite anit-sub. However, I can admit that the way forward for this genera is in small, niche products with a subscription, as that's the only way they're going to get a steady enough stream of income to support themselves.
The problem I have with current MMO subscriptions is that the standard $15 and month is bogus and simply not worth it for a single game. Smaller MMO projects going forward are going to have to look at lowering the price.
I hate subs, but I don't think $5 a month would be all that unreasonable for the upcoming crop of indie MMOs, especially with their limited scopes and likely slow frequency of updates.
The standard $15 sub and the freemium "F2P" models we have now are for those companies still humping the corpse of what MMOs were. That's fine for those that simply want to make the most money they can without any regard for the longevity of their game or their community. But, for MMOs to have any sort of future things are going to have to change.
Yeah I don't agree.
$5? for a small population game?
let's say they got 100k players. that's only $500k.
That's not going to pay for much unless the team is super small (two people?). And actually, come to think of it, they don't get to keep all of that anyway because there are a variety of taxes not to mention the fringe that comes with employing people.
Unless these are people who are just doing this out of the goodness of their heart and do it part time. However, in that scenario, eventually they grow up and realize that their efforts are piggy backing on their own day jobs and life and I can see retention being a huge issue.
The whole idea is to lower the barrier of entry. If F2P and a standard sub are the two extremes of the spectrum then it makes sense that somewhere in the middle must be the sweet spot.
Yes, I'm talking about very small teams making very focused niche games. Think Haven & Hearth, not Pantheon (which I don't think is going to have near the success the dev team or fans hope for).
However, I stick by my statement about the upcoming indie MMOs. Look at many of the MMO-lite games on Early Access, like Naval Action and Kings and Heroes. They aren't charging a sub and have no cash shop, yet have decent sized teams working with budgets that must at least equal those of Crowfall or Pantheon.
uh, kings and heroes isn't an mmo in the traditional sense and it's still be developed (i'ts a world where hundreds can come together).
And Industry games seems to be made up of more than two people. They did stay "staffing ramped up" so I'm taking it that they have a bit of a team there.
Haven and hearth currently has 169 people playing. However, I see that its' still in Alpha? Seems to have been in Alpha for a long time? Heck, I thought it already launched.
Are you talking about actual professional developers or developers that make games as a hobby?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
uh, kings and heroes isn't an mmo in the traditional sense and it's still be developed (i'ts a world where hundreds can come together).
And Industry games seems to be made up of more than two people. They did stay "staffing ramped up" so I'm taking it that they have a bit of a team there.
Haven and hearth currently has 169 people playing. However, I see that its' still in Alpha? Seems to have been in Alpha for a long time? Heck, I thought it already launched.
Are you talking about actual professional developers or developers that make games as a hobby?
I'm talking about both. In the end all I'm saying is that, I believe, the future of this genre lies with smaller teams, working with smaller budgets, making much more focused games that can survive on less revenue than what we see now.
Actually I agree with you on this.
of course, when I think of smaller teams/budgets I'm thinking more in the scope of Pantheon or Camelot unchained.
Would an even smaller game be successful? Well, i suppose one has to define "successful" but I imagine being able to continually run and add content for its audience.
There is a small game called "9 lives" which at the moment is a single player game but it's meant to eventually be an mmo [edit: oops apparently it's meant to be multi-player, not sure if that was changed or not]. I love the art design and really hope that it can make it though I'm not holding my breath.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Shame. DDO is one of my rotation games and a fav of mine.
I must be one of the few that liked the payment method where you picked areas to buy/purchase with in-game currency.
Although it was a while ago, it was obvious they were in trouble when they started selling levels in the cash shop, always a bad sign. And whoever came up with that utterly crappy kind of dual levelling system should be taken outside and shot. Probably the worst game-system design of any game I have ever played. Many of DDO's core systems, like reincarnation, were stupidly over-complex with those multiple different types of hearts etc. At it's core it's a great game, but so many of the extraneous systems were badly thought out.
Comments
1) Make an MMO that's different from everyone and everything else.
New lore, new art styles, new concepts. Good luck; you'll have to be super creative here.
2) After you've made this for your primary console, be it PC, PS4, XboX, etc, hire UI experts
3) Have these UI experts work to code mobile-functionality for essential in-game functions via your phone that don't require your PC to manage.
For context, I'll use Archeage. Having a game as complex as Archeage is great. Now imagine you're at work, you want to check your crops, but don't want to use a VPN to get into the game remotely. What if there was an entirely new and different app, specifically for your phone, that also plugged into the game? One that basically just showed you a plot of your land, or the AH with prices for items. It'd basically be a "ghost" that ignores the world, but is still present in it, and has access to critical functions.
Expanding even further, let's take FF14. A mobile equivalent that looks to the tune of, say, FF6, to reduce hardware strain, yet carries over functionality, gains, and achievements to your FF14 sprite.
4) Figure out the proper code of monetization for this access; in a simple world? A subscription fee for access to the breadth of mobile apps that allow this level of functionality if so desired.
There you go. Figure out how to do this, and to do it well, and you'll make more money than god. People can then effectively always "connect" to their game of choice, allows your game to be F2P with a "premiere" option that actually is premiere. Walah, billions of dollars.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Thank you.
Technically, you might not even need such apps. However, the goal is to refine them and keep working on them to be so useful and desirable that people are interested in a $2.99 fee or something along those lines.
Think about it. If you had a F2P game with a 3 dollar subscription fee for that kind of tertiary support, could you REALLY complain about it? Even a high schooler can save up 3 bucks a month.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
$5? for a small population game?
let's say they got 100k players. that's only $500k.
That's not going to pay for much unless the team is super small (two people?). And actually, come to think of it, they don't get to keep all of that anyway because there are a variety of taxes not to mention the fringe that comes with employing people.
Unless these are people who are just doing this out of the goodness of their heart and do it part time. However, in that scenario, eventually they grow up and realize that their efforts are piggy backing on their own day jobs and life and I can see retention being a huge issue.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If you're shooting to have the best graphics, the deepest content, the best musical score, etc, than sure, $5 is not gonna cut it. But with reasonable goals, a smaller team is manageable.
Let's cut it in half to 50k subscribers, at $250k a month. At the end of the year, assuming you hold moderately steady, you'd make 2.5-3million a year. That's not too shabby!
Now you figure if you're focusing on "What am I bringing to the table?" as opposed to "Best. MMO. Ever." in every category, you can make a compelling game. And I think that element is where so many studios lose their way, trying to do everything well.
For example, if you were playing an MMO with 64-bit graphics, but they were polished, and the gameplay was tight, with an excellent crafting system, you can spend substantially less than if you're requiring up-to-date Unreal 4 cutting edge graphics. It's just about balance.
If you're telling me you can't make a game on $3,000,000 a year, I'm just saying you're wrong. If you're telling me you can't make Destiny with $3,000,000, well... of course not :P
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Remember, that 3 million is not all kept. There are State, local and Federal taxes. That 100k salary for a developer salary is more like 125k for benefits and the like. And this is not taking into account actually renting a commercial property if you want your team to stay together and equipment, licensing software, etc.
How small a game are you talking? The one where you can turn into a Cow (the name escapes me at the moment) that was developed by 2 people or Pantheon that has 20 something people?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
And Industry games seems to be made up of more than two people. They did stay "staffing ramped up" so I'm taking it that they have a bit of a team there.
Haven and hearth currently has 169 people playing. However, I see that its' still in Alpha? Seems to have been in Alpha for a long time? Heck, I thought it already launched.
Are you talking about actual professional developers or developers that make games as a hobby?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
of course, when I think of smaller teams/budgets I'm thinking more in the scope of Pantheon or Camelot unchained.
Would an even smaller game be successful? Well, i suppose one has to define "successful" but I imagine being able to continually run and add content for its audience.
There is a small game called "9 lives" which at the moment is a single player game but it's meant to eventually be an mmo [edit: oops apparently it's meant to be multi-player, not sure if that was changed or not]. I love the art design and really hope that it can make it though I'm not holding my breath.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I must be one of the few that liked the payment method where you picked areas to buy/purchase with in-game currency.
Although it was a while ago, it was obvious they were in trouble when they started selling levels in the cash shop, always a bad sign. And whoever came up with that utterly crappy kind of dual levelling system should be taken outside and shot. Probably the worst game-system design of any game I have ever played. Many of DDO's core systems, like reincarnation, were stupidly over-complex with those multiple different types of hearts etc. At it's core it's a great game, but so many of the extraneous systems were badly thought out.