Turbine Gives Up

MightyUnclean · July 2016

http://massivelyop.com/2016/07/07/rumor-more-layoffs-for-turbine/

Update: Warner Bros. PR has issued the following statement to Massively OP:

“Turbine is transitioning into a free-to-play, mobile development studio, and as a result we are eliminating some positions. The Lord of the Rings Online and Dungeons and Dragons online games will continue to operate as they do now. Re-focusing and reducing the studio size was a difficult decision for the company, and we are grateful to all of the Turbine staff for their considerable contributions.”

MightyUnclean · July 2016

Looks like life support soon for LOTRO, one of my favorite MMO's.

Reizla · July 2016

MightyUnclean said:

Looks like life support soon for LOTRO, one of my favorite MMO's.

I've given up on LotRo a couple of years ago already. Ever since the F2P transition, the game has lost it's glamour for me. Not to mention, almost every expansion released after the base game kinda sucks (for me) because most of the quests now are the regular 'Kill 10 rats' ones.

I also wonder about the renewal of the ME license that Turbine/WB has. After the 2014 'renewal', we haven't heard anything about the length of the renewal and/or terms. It wouldn't surprise me that it's just the 3-year extention of the original license agreement that Turbine/WB has taken, while ME wanted to cancel the license. After all, Turbine/WB are raping the lore more and more with each coming expansion, with the latest major one showing the worst rape ever, where Beorns have become a player race, despite that Beorn (according to the books/lore) was the last of his race...

MightyUnclean · July 2016

I hear ya.

From what I've gathered, the license expires again in Fall 2017.

TheGoblinKing · July 2016

I think your title is wrong..

It wasn't Turbine that gave up, Warner gave up, Turbine just gets told what to do.

Koboli · July 2016

Reizla said:

MightyUnclean said:

Looks like life support soon for LOTRO, one of my favorite MMO's.

I've given up on LotRo a couple of years ago already. Ever since the F2P transition, the game has lost it's glamour for me. Not to mention, almost every expansion released after the base game kinda sucks (for me) because most of the quests now are the regular 'Kill 10 rats' ones.

I also wonder about the renewal of the ME license that Turbine/WB has. After the 2014 'renewal', we haven't heard anything about the length of the renewal and/or terms. It wouldn't surprise me that it's just the 3-year extention of the original license agreement that Turbine/WB has taken, while ME wanted to cancel the license. After all, Turbine/WB are raping the lore more and more with each coming expansion, with the latest major one showing the worst rape ever, where Beorns have become a player race, despite that Beorn (according to the books/lore) was the last of his race...

Yup. The low quality of the new content killed it for me - it destroyed any motivation to level characters to the cap.

LOTRO could have remained like EVE - a small, pay-to-play game with a hyper-loyal subscriber base. Instead, it chose to jump on the bandwagon, ultimately riding all the way to its demise.

The F2P model is, quite simply, stupid. Either do B2P or sub and make a play for that core audience. Not only do these increasingly appear to be the only sound long-term financial models, but they demonstrate to players that you are more invested in your own product than simply erecting a ramshackle roadside stand emblazoned with a crudely-scrawled sign reading 'TRINKETZ FER SALE'.

SpottyGekko · July 2016

TheGoblinKing said:

I think your title is wrong..

It wasn't Turbine that gave up, Warner gave up, Turbine just gets told what to do.

Yup, it's Warner that are changing Turbine's focus, not Turbine abandoning Lotro.

Just like most developers tried to duplicate WoW's success by making "WoW-clones", it seems that all the big studios are focusing on the pot of gold at the end of the mobile rainbow. This will inevitably lead to a parade of crappy and uninspired "me too" mobile games.

History tends to repeat itself, so I'd expect the mobile games to rapidly become more expensive to make as the "arms-race" hots up.

I can't wait to see what everyone will chase next after the mobile well runs dry. The format or genre of a game doesn't confer automatic success, the game design does. And good designs are very rare.

Erinak1 · July 2016

Reizla said:

where Beorns have become a player race, despite that Beorn (according to the film) was the last of his race...

Fixed it for you! Nowhere in the Hobbit does he claim to be the last, and in fact after he goes missing they company finds the footprints of many bears, indicating some sort of meeting. (That is never explained but its pretty apparent that that is what it means)

FrodoFragins · July 2016

Turbine did it to themselves with AC2, DDO and LOTRO mistakes. Add in that horrible DC Comics MOBA and it was only a matter of time.

SBFord · July 2016

http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/45/view/news/read/40481/Lord-of-the-Rings-Online-CONFIRMED-Layoffs-Hit-Turbine.html

This thread has 91 posts. WE broke the story. WE got the statement from Turbine. *huffs* Why will no one use the news page.

((((

cheyane · July 2016

SBFord said:

http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/45/view/news/read/40481/Lord-of-the-Rings-Online-CONFIRMED-Layoffs-Hit-Turbine.html

This thread has 91 posts. WE broke the story. WE got the statement from Turbine. *huffs* Why will no one use the news page. ((((

His title is a little more click baity than the other.

Reizla · July 2016

Erinak1 said:

Reizla said:

where Beorns have become a player race, despite that Beorn (according to the film) was the last of his race...

Fixed it for you! Nowhere in the Hobbit does he claim to be the last, and in fact after he goes missing they company finds the footprints of many bears, indicating some sort of meeting. (That is never explained but its pretty apparent that that is what it means)

It's also in the book (though not with so many words). And iirc it's also mentioned in the Silmarillion that the Beorn have all died but one...

JudgeUK · July 2016

I wonder if the likes of LOTRO and D&D will be sold off to another company?

gervaise1 · July 2016

As I posted in the non-click bait thread that SBFord started!

From the LotR forum:

Cordovan

Administrator

Join Date

Nov 2010

Posts

289

We appreciate everyone's concerns for the team's well-being, and know that folks have seen and read your thoughts. We aren't able to comment specifically on personnel matters, especially when they come from business decision-making like this, but we would reiterate the part from yesterday's official statement that Lord of the Rings Online will continue to operate as it does now. Additionally, we'd like you to know that our development plans remain unchanged.

You'll notice that I'm posting this rather than Frelorn. Some of you may remember me from a few years ago when I did community work for LOTRO under Sapience, and filled in during the gap before Frelorn took over. I will be doing forum and community work for at least a while here, in addition to the work I do for Dungeons & Dragons Online. I'll chat more soon, and be available to answer whatever questions I can. In the meantime, if you are a streamer, fansite operator, podcaster, whatever, you can reach me through the forums here in addition to our typical LOTRO contact methods (Facebook, Twitter, etc.)

SpottyGekko · July 2016

gervaise1 said:

As I posted in the non-click bait thread that SBFord started!

From the LotR forum:

Cordovan
Administrator
Join Date
Nov 2010
Posts
289
We appreciate everyone's concerns for the team's well-being, and know that folks have seen and read your thoughts. We aren't able to comment specifically on personnel matters, especially when they come from business decision-making like this, but we would reiterate the part from yesterday's official statement that Lord of the Rings Online will continue to operate as it does now. Additionally, we'd like you to know that our development plans remain unchanged.

You'll notice that I'm posting this rather than Frelorn. Some of you may remember me from a few years ago when I did community work for LOTRO under Sapience, and filled in during the gap before Frelorn took over. I will be doing forum and community work for at least a while here, in addition to the work I do for Dungeons & Dragons Online. I'll chat more soon, and be available to answer whatever questions I can. In the meantime, if you are a streamer, fansite operator, podcaster, whatever, you can reach me through the forums here in addition to our typical LOTRO contact methods (Facebook, Twitter, etc.)

Lovely piece of PR fluff.

TLDR: "We can assure you, everything will remain the same until it changes"

So the community rep for Lotro was laid-off and the former DDO rep will now do double duty for DDO and Lotro ? How many similar changes were made in other areas ?

"Our workload has doubled, but that won't affect our development plans"

Yeah, riiiight....

Theodwulf · July 2016

I played both DDO and LotRO when they first came out . I didn't like either but it still sad because they are a local company.

kitarad · July 2016

Support the games you love before they go the way of the dodo.

It's constantly the issue with players from MMORPGs they want their games for free and demand so many things and then when companies start getting smaller and smaller and the games suffering as a result they realise "oh may be I should have supported them when I could have". Well this is why the MMORPG landscape is changing.

More companies are also plenty fed up with the player base who want everything for free so they have started making games that focus on cash shops and that is why you should all have supported the games you liked by paying for them when you can.

Korean games and other Asian games coming here have been smart and making sure people pay and they do not give away things for free. More Western game companies should take notice before they all close down.

Gobstopper3D · July 2016

Yes, Asian devs are using the B2P model more, but they are still the same grind me to tears games that they always were, only now you get to pay up front before you get to realize that nothing has changed.

Western devs have pretty much given up on creating any new MMORPGs and have switched focus to other areas.

Wizardry · July 2016

Not that anyone needed enlightenment but just reaffirms how cheap and lame mobile gaming is.Throw very little overhead into a game and just use something like FB to easily mass market it.

Just as well they get out,i said many years ago,if your developer cannot do a genre justice then don't even try or bother,stick to what your studio is capable of.

syriinx · July 2016

DMKano said:

Koboli said:

LOTRO could have remained like EVE - a small, pay-to-play game with a hyper-loyal subscriber base. Instead, it chose to jump on the bandwagon, ultimately riding all the way to its demise.

The F2P model is, quite simply, stupid. Either do B2P or sub and make a play for that core audience.

All of Turbines games put together have dropped so low that they don't even add up to a fraction of EvE playerbase.

To remain sub or b2p you need to have enough players to cover the cost of developers to keep making more content as well as operational costs of having the game up and running.

How can you remain a B2P or subscription model if you are in red constantly month after month?

The reason why companies switch to f2p+cash shop models is to survive and keep the games going for as long as possible.

You make it sound as if they were making a ton of money and then decided to switch to f2p - nope.

A b2p or p2p game that us makin a killing for years - nobody is going to change it to f2p, you let it ride.

LOTRO was a different.

At the time LOTRO went f2p it still had a healthy player base, over 200K.
However, the issue was their poorly thought out lifetime sub. Many of those players werent paying.

LOTRO didnt hop on a bandwagon and go F2P, they built the bandwagon. They had this huge spike of players that 'inspired' others to make the transition.

However once the dust had settled, their were less players than there were before and the quality of the game nosedived (as is the case in every AAA freemium transition). Of course it was probably still more profitable for Turbine, but a much worse experience for the players.

UnleadedRev · July 2016

1) LOTRO had the best player community and still does
2) LOTRO was unique in so many ways too many to list here
3) The Devs worked hard and released more and more content and expansions
4) Was released during the movie and books peak popularity

Unfortunately, the game went downhill with Moria where you get bogged down for months on end in an endless grind.
Also, F2P ruined the game..there was no need for this as it was a high quality game like WoW and even better.
Players were excluded from new content and expansions if they did not keep up with the game.

goboygo · July 2016

The entire studio converting to F2P mobile games with 2 dudes keeping the lights on for LOTRO and D&D. I don't play F2P games, I don't play mobile games. I find them both to be cheesy, dismal, unfulfilling experiences. But it appears most people don't need more than a couple inches of screen display to be entertained.

tawess · July 2016

And with that... LotrO have received it´s notice of termination. No way they will extend the licence once it runs out.

As a former SWG player... I know what some of you will be feeling. But don´t worry it will be quick and painless.

Enjoy the days you have left because they are numbered.

goboygo · July 2016

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

The lore destruction really started with Moria, and the addition of the Sith Lord... sorry, the Runekeeper class.

There were some "suspect" classes before, like Loremaster, but there was still an effort made to make them fit into the world. There was also the issues of elves and hobbits all over the place, including elves having a drink in a tavern in Bree, which won't happen in Tolkien's world either. But it still worked, and there was some of that "being in Middle-Earth" feeling back then.

The Runekeeper farts more lightning than an angry Emperor in Star Wars would. That just doesn't fit Middle-Earth. And the game kept going downhill since them, like e.g. elves shooting fellow elves at the entrance to Lothlorien... even elves which were born there. Without warning. Just shot dead.

They turned the original game, which was still decently depicting Middle-Earth, with some sacrifices made for the sake of gameplay, to just another WoW clone with flashy spell effects, poor animations and clunky combat (combat has always been a weak element in LOTRO). The addition of Beornings as a playable class was just another nail in the already pretty well sealed coffin.

You bring up some good points, they were true to the lore in some places but off the rails in others where it made no sense and made for bad gameplay in the LOTRO world. It was largely one of my most memorable MMO's to date, I agree I lost interest in the endless trash mob filled hallways of Moria. The was a very constricting and draining experience, and not in a good way.

Honestly though I don't think it had anything to do with the outcome of the game as it is today. Once other MMO's started giving people everything you used to earn it basically devalued all other experiences, from that point on in the MMO market its just been a race to the bottom.

Po_gg · July 2016

SBFord said:

*huffs* Why will no one use the news page. ((((

Yep, I think the best one I've seen so far was a festival, covered at the start, and almost a week later a new thread "hey, there's the festival just started!"

Erinak1 said:

Reizla said:

where Beorns have become a player race, despite that Beorn (according to the film) was the last of his race...

Fixed it for you!

Yep, I blame the King of Pop... wait, that was an another Jackson

Beornings are absolutely lore, not even Appendices or from the notes / CT edit, it's straight from the Fellowships.

Them being in the game, that's a whole different topic, and was a quite heated discussion, even if Turbine tried to give a background with the lead-in questline. Biggest issue was maybe their numbers, but it wasn't a surprise after all, a new class/race, with fun mechanics, obviously everyone jumped onto it... which led to some weird situations, like when half of the players in Bree were beornings...

Sovrath · July 2016

DMKano said:

Koboli said:

LOTRO could have remained like EVE - a small, pay-to-play game with a hyper-loyal subscriber base. Instead, it chose to jump on the bandwagon, ultimately riding all the way to its demise.

The F2P model is, quite simply, stupid. Either do B2P or sub and make a play for that core audience.

All of Turbines games put together have dropped so low that they don't even add up to a fraction of EvE playerbase.

To remain sub or b2p you need to have enough players to cover the cost of developers to keep making more content as well as operational costs of having the game up and running.

How can you remain a B2P or subscription model if you are in red constantly month after month?

The reason why companies switch to f2p+cash shop models is to survive and keep the games going for as long as possible.

You make it sound as if they were making a ton of money and then decided to switch to f2p - nope.

A b2p or p2p game that us makin a killing for years - nobody is going to change it to f2p, you let it ride.

Actually they changed to f2p after DDO because DDO did so well. At least that was the conversation I had twith Geoffrey Stieffel.

LOTRO at the time was doing "ok" but DDO really took off with their new model.

The problem with all of this is that developers need to be making exciting content that grabs its audience, not just "bits here and there" and "quality of life updates" here and there.

LOTRO pretty much slowed to a crawl in that department.

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Turbine Gives Up

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Turbine Gives Up

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