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What is your definition of Pay2Win?

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Comments

  • DeivosDeivos Member EpicPosts: 3,692
    Wow you really dislike sportsmanship.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    Gdemami said:
    Kyleran said:
    Think of MMORPG PVP more as warfare rather than team sports and you'll understand why it doesn't need to be fair and balanced like a team sport in terms of gear or numbers.

    There is no such thing as "fair and balanced" team sports, that is why there are ladders and leagues - higher you go, more skil and money you have to compete against.

    All sports are a "warfare" - competitors will do anything, that isn't forbidden, to win. They will go after any advantage they can get and that always involve money.

    Just because it takes less money to compete at top level or even compete at all - high minimal entry cost, does not make it any more "fair and balanced".

    Whole "P2W" concept is just absurd and silly.
    How is it absurd and silly when you just validated it?
    You just said, "They will go after any advantage they can get and that always involve money".
    That's called paying for advantages, to win against your opponents.
    So yes, it's P2W.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,725
    edited July 2016
    observer said:
    How is it absurd and silly when you just validated it?
    I haven't.

    Concept of "P2W" works only assuming premise there is something like no P2W state - "fair and balanced" . But there is no such thing, thus the term is meaningless.


    What you are proposing is circular reasoning - premise and conclusion being one and the same.
  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,666
    P2W = Anything wanted at a cost.  

    Cosmetic = Anything Not wanted.

    "Cosmetic" is a codeword for things the population will not want to spend money on.  "Advantage" is another codeword for wanted or valued, things the population will spend money for.

    There are four types of gamers according to the Bartle's Taxonomy: killers, explorers, achievers, and socializers.  Typically anything that is wanted by killers, explorers, or achievers is classified as P2W.  Only that which is wanted by socializers is tolerated.  Therefore the burden of paying for F2P is placed on socializers.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
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    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
    It costs money to play.  Therefore P2W.

  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,511
    If 2 players with same playing skills duel/clash (in an objective against each other, pvp or pve) and the result comes from a bonus, status, buff, gear that is paid with money. Testing it is almost impossible but the theory remains since most p2w games are quite vocal about it. They even add those big red blinking button saying "you didn't check the cash shop yet!".

    Since the publishers shove p2w elements using the boiling frog syndrome people actually don't see it coming.
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  • farbegefarbege Member UncommonPosts: 305
    P2W  for me involves money  to bet and money to win.
    Poker played with money is paytowin. You put money at stack and you can win money.

    Archeage is a MMORPG. MMORPSG's cant be paytowin because there isnt any winning condition.

    You can't "win" a mmorpg  >.<

    At least not a good one.  The best you can "win" in a mmorpg is to learn new people and create new friends.
    But i doubt  anyone means that by "win" in this forum.

    In good MMOROG's there isn't any "endgame" at all.  In Archeage what could be called "endgame" would be propably owning a castle for example (which for someone else could at the same time mean nothing) .
    And even castles change owner and the "winner" of yesterday is the looser of today. 

    Immature people think winning arena duells is "winning" the game. For others it means nothing. Others become rich tycoon and think they "win". Did they win ? propably yes, propably no. Its a MMORPG and no one can tell the "winning" condition.
    Most people in Archeage aren't bright enough to see this and they pay.
    So they pay for my content to be for me free to play . So propably i shoudn't tell them Archeage isn't pay2win and should tell em . "archeage you must pay to win" and have a laugh at them inside me.

    So guys : Archeage is pay to win (hahahaha)

      
  • SoybeanSoybean Member UncommonPosts: 100
    If you play Arche Age then take a look at the AH and look for the regrade charms or apex they normally sell in the cash shop. Somebody had to buy the red regrade charms or apex in the cash shop for real money and put them on the AH. Maybe it wasn't you but somebody put them there to sell, hence gaining an advantage by getting gold very quickly to buy the gear, ect. 

    If you take a look at the wagon upgrades, tax certs and labor potions which is also sold on the AH except the freighter upgrade cert (i believe that is BOP).  The labor limit, limits the players ability to have fun the way they want to. Not necessarily a P2W element but those who haul one pack on the back of a donkey are at a disadvantage to those who have a 8 pack freighter. Maybe not every aspect is P2W but that dose not mean it isn't there.

    If you are one of the ones who does not pay anything and are one of those who totally plays for free, that's great but your fun is severely curtailed in comparison to those who do pay
  • farbegefarbege Member UncommonPosts: 305
    edited August 2016
    Gaining a "advantage" applys when you start a race at the same ground line. 
    Archeage and generally MMORPG's have their server open ideally for 24/7 but player log on and off , stop playing fro some time and return, join new to a game that is 2 years old, go on vacations for some time.

    If you say here is a case "gain an adavatage" then it also applys in Archeage that you can catch up to other players   and matching and closing the gap faster then in any other game.

    Both sayings are in my opinion wrong. MMORPG's are permament open worlds, there is no "starting line" for all to start the race.
    The core of the MMORPG principle is for players to advance and because no one starts at the same day and plays for exact the same time there will be differences in progression.

    I am playing on sub only basis and my fun never stoped in the best game i see on the market right now.

    MMORPG's forums are hater forums abviously  but i discovered reddit where we archeage players can discous things better then in these anti Archeage forums.
     
     I can omly suggest players who have real intrest in Archeage to follow the discussion on the Archeage subreddit for interesting info  und leave this haters place to the haters.

    MMORPG.com don't do the best game on the market any justice just look they gave a 8 score in a review to black desert  lol  it might have its merrits but its almost outclassed by archeage's gameplay gemae features which have been given  7.3 review here lol 

  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 401
    "Explanation to P2W _____________________________________________
    It is not a matter of does P2w exists, but as to how it is handled.Since there are 99 shades of gray in it with time as its greatest resource.
    If the P2w component is too rewarding ,bigger part of the community will dig in and gamble their money by gaining advantage over others, opposed to if it is balanced and what you can earn ingame over reasonable amount of time for what you could pay money for as well viewed as convenience.

    There is also diversification in whether you can only purchase certain items with cash, do those items actually make you much more powerfull than all the rest, AND does that impact PvP, PvE, or both.

    Publishers:
    The very purpose of it ,is to bait players into enviroment they like, than use psychology or gambling and gamer addiction to work for their wallets.
    So it is in fact information prior to game release that holds the most value in these cases, if players knew in advance publishers will lie to them in order to get as much as money as possible,


    Release of those games would be a disaster."


    This is quoted from my previous comment in another related thread.

    Enjoy

  • Veexer_NuiVeexer_Nui Member UncommonPosts: 196
    edited August 2016
    P2W = Gaining ANY advantage by paying. I spent nearly $4k and when I played I was rank 1 in arena.

    Archeage EU - Nui

  • farbegefarbege Member UncommonPosts: 305
    P2W = Gaining ANY advantage by paying. I spent nearly $4k and when I played I was rank 1 in arena.

    You can also close the gap to any adavanced player by these.

    To close the gap to other player as fast as you wish is only possible in Archeage, if you accept your definition then you have to accept also this "feature" as Archegae strong point.
  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Yeah!  Another one of those threads, how exciting!
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

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