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EVE Online has No Problem Getting New Players, but Retaining them is an Issue

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 6,944
    I was one of those that tried it and did not stay......TO me it jsut was not a fun world...sitting in a ship clicking stuff and having no avatar was a real deal breaker.....I just had no interest paying for a game like that
  • CymdaiCymdai Member UncommonPosts: 1,041
    I tried to get into Eve multiple times over the years. I'm no MMO-newbie, either! Each time, I was reluctant to play based on multiple factors:

    1) I didn't see anyone else. Seriously. It's a ghost town early on.

    2) Social interaction didn't exist. No one chats. There's no real way to make friends, and the few I did quit within a few days at the latest.

    3) There's not much to do beyond quest for gold. I wasn't attached to the deep, player-inspired lore. There is very much a feeling of "I missed that boat..." when you delve into the world, which has years upon years of stories exclusive to the players who were there and were a part of it.

    4) The game, while technically excellent, is quite deep. Yet the majority of the depth is a "Learn at your own risk" kind of mechanic. If, in order to play the game, I need multiple guides just to get started (as there are minimal in-game tools) then that's not quite satisfactory.

    5) Lastly, I didn't feel like I mattered. At all. Be it the stories, the game play, etc, I felt like nothing I did mattered in any capacity at all, which just kills my desire to invest more time in remaining irrelevant.

    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,666
    Cymdai said:
    I tried to get into Eve multiple times over the years. I'm no MMO-newbie, either! Each time, I was reluctant to play based on multiple factors:

    1) I didn't see anyone else. Seriously. It's a ghost town early on.

    2) Social interaction didn't exist. No one chats. There's no real way to make friends, and the few I did quit within a few days at the latest.

    3) There's not much to do beyond quest for gold. I wasn't attached to the deep, player-inspired lore. There is very much a feeling of "I missed that boat..." when you delve into the world, which has years upon years of stories exclusive to the players who were there and were a part of it.

    4) The game, while technically excellent, is quite deep. Yet the majority of the depth is a "Learn at your own risk" kind of mechanic. If, in order to play the game, I need multiple guides just to get started (as there are minimal in-game tools) then that's not quite satisfactory.

    5) Lastly, I didn't feel like I mattered. At all. Be it the stories, the game play, etc, I felt like nothing I did mattered in any capacity at all, which just kills my desire to invest more time in remaining irrelevant.
    1) There is no "early-on".

    The game is huge and because of lack of progression, people are scattered around pursuing their ventures.

    2) People just mind their business and talk within their corp, friends or w/e, like in any other game.

    However, NPC corp chat is pretty much always alive.

    If you want to talk to someone, just speak. It is almost guaranteed you will get a reply.

    3) There is tons to do. It is a world to live, not to blitz through tho...

    4) Unfortunately, current itteration of "tutorial" is the worst as far as I can remember.

    The game is really complex and huge, you have to learn if you want to get in.

    5) You just start and you want to "matter"...?


    Sadly, the biggest attraction about EVE is also it's greatest weakness - it is different thus everything feels unfamiliar and strange. The best thing to do is to forget everything you know about MMOs and kick in your curiousity. It does take some effort to learn how the game works and what is there but imo it is worthy.


    Fly safe!
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656
    edited July 2016
    I think they are right to look at the terrible tutorial as a culprit, but they also need to consider how bad quests are in general, how crappy combat is, and that the community itself is capable of driving people away.

    When I played I stuck past the tutorial because it is fun to learn about the game, and you are constantly learning.  The beauty of the game pulled me in, and it is even more lovely now.  I was shocked at how awful the controls and combat were, though.  I understand the issues with providing more action based combat when you have a global server, but that doesn't change that you autoattack things to death while occasionally tweaking your automatic orbit.

    Also frustrating is that eve has some great stories to tell, but they are all completely out of the game.  The books and the eve chronicles short stories are excellent.  The quests in the game are like guildleves from ffxiv, except far smaller in number and with less randomization.  Questing in eve sucks.

    Most people I met got their enjoyment in the game from making and executing creative plans, ranging from ganking miners to using wormholes to transport goods quickly to invading enemy territory.  The people having fun were the people making decisions and taking advantage of the sandbox elements.  Almost all of them had more than one account.

    It seems to me that CCP needs to take the time to make eve fun to play, not just fun to manage.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,666
    Baitness said:
    I think they are right to look at the terrible tutorial as a culprit, but they also need to consider how bad quests are in general, how crappy combat is, and that the community itself is capable of driving people away.

    When I played I stuck past the tutorial because it is fun to learn about the game, and you are constantly learning.  The beauty of the game pulled me in, and it is even more lovely now.  I was shocked at how awful the controls and combat were, though.  I understand the issues with providing more action based combat when you have a global server, but that doesn't change that you autoattack things to death while occasionally tweaking your automatic orbit.

    Also frustrating is that eve has some great stories to tell, but they are all completely out of the game.  The books and the eve chronicles short stories are excellent.  The quests in the game are like guildleves from ffxiv, except far smaller in number and with less randomization.  Questing in eve sucks.

    Most people I met got their enjoyment in the game from making and executing creative plans, ranging from ganking miners to using wormholes to transport goods quickly to invading enemy territory.  The people having fun were the people making decisions and taking advantage of the sandbox elements.  Almost all of them had more than one account.

    It seems to me that CCP needs to take the time to make eve fun to play, not just fun to manage.
    It is not the game, it is you....
  • Elevenb4Elevenb4 Member UncommonPosts: 361
    I recently came back to Eve for a month. Keep in mind I had played for about 3 years straight back in 2009-2012(ish). Had a good time then for the most part. Anyways, this time I just didn't see the point. Everytime I logged on there were 16k players online? Many times there were a lot less. As someone else posted, it felt like a ghost town. Didn't see many people, the people that I did talk to were wary of talking to others they didn't know, with good reason. I think people tried to scam me 5 or 6 times during that month. blah blah blah


    Anyways, I say all that because it just felt shallow. I did some gate camping in an area I used to frequent, saw only 4 ships in about 3 hours. It just wasn't fun anymore. 

    -Unconstitutional laws aren't laws.-

  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,780
    My problem is that EVE never feels like a game, almost as if interaction is not needed. I can't understand why I should want to play? The gameplay itself is not compelling. EVE is conceptually awesome, but playing it doesn't feel like anything. If I had to liken it to something, I'd say EVE plays the same as using an internet browser. All the interesting stuff seems to not be hands-on gameplay related.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,666
    Rusque said:
    My problem is that EVE never feels like a game, almost as if interaction is not needed. I can't understand why I should want to play? The gameplay itself is not compelling. EVE is conceptually awesome, but playing it doesn't feel like anything. If I had to liken it to something, I'd say EVE plays the same as using an internet browser. All the interesting stuff seems to not be hands-on gameplay related.
    Such is a nature of sandbox, a virtual world.
  • KoboliKoboli Member UncommonPosts: 210
    edited July 2016
    Rusque said:
    My problem is that EVE never feels like a game, almost as if interaction is not needed. I can't understand why I should want to play? The gameplay itself is not compelling. EVE is conceptually awesome, but playing it doesn't feel like anything. If I had to liken it to something, I'd say EVE plays the same as using an internet browser. All the interesting stuff seems to not be hands-on gameplay related.
    It's not just you. Part of the problem is that EVE's best elements are all locked away in null-sec, exclusively controlled by corporations who are inherently untrusting of new people (and generally only want characters with 10 million or more SP). It's all well and good for CCP to spend most of their time hyping these big intergalactic wars because they look neat and draw eyes, but it's simply not an accurate reflection of the majority of the game.

    The best a new-to-middle skill player can expect is a faceless schlub to pod them during a gate camp. Those two seconds of helpless "action" do not go a long way towards player retention. 
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656
    edited July 2016
    Gdemami said:
    Baitness said:
    *snip*
    It is not the game, it is you....
    Me and 1.5 million players per year apparently, not including any vets they lose.

    Edit: Holy crap, down to 16k players online?  Like right after maintenance or during normal hours?  When I used to play it was 30k + at lows and 50k+ at highs.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,666
    edited July 2016
    Baitness said:
    Me and 1.5 million players per year apparently, not including any vets they lose.
    1.5M? There are tens of millions who do not play EVE!

    Fail math is fail...
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656
    Gdemami said:
    Baitness said:
    Me and 1.5 million players per year apparently, not including any vets they lose.
    1.5M? There are tens of millions who do not play EVE!

    Fail math is fail...
    ...DID YOU READ THE LINK?  It says 1.5 million people tried eve in just the past year alone, 51% quit after two hours, and obviously they didn't retain the rest.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,887
    EVE has always struggled to retain new players, that's nothing new.

    EVE will always struggle to retain players, because the average gamer is simply not motivated enough to learn the complexities of the game. Combine that with EVE's open-ended sandbox game play, and it's simply too much effort for most gamer's.

    The only kind of people that remain in EVE is those that can set their own goals and make the neccessary effort to attain them.
  • KoboliKoboli Member UncommonPosts: 210
    The simple, honest to God's truth is that it's been 13 years, and people get bored. CCP seems to believe that they can keep EVE afloat eternally by refreshing their game; I disagree wholesale - the essential experience remains basically unchanged since launch, and it was never more than a niche product to begin with. That isn't to say that CCP doesn't deserve praise for "staying in the mix" for all this time, but there is a fine line between devotion and hopeless over-commitment, and they are tottering on the brink. 

    It's time for an EVE 2. So many of the problems that reskinning simply cannot solve could at last be addressed in a full revitalization of the IP, and with competitors (yes, I see them as such) like Star Citizen in the offing, the time to act is now, not after-the-fact. Otherwise, expect to continue to see those currently logged numbers slump further... until total darkness.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,666
    edited July 2016
    EVE has always struggled to retain new players, that's nothing new.
    ...and do you think other games do any better?

    Take an example of the guy above.

    He jumps into a game and immediate response is: bad quest, crappy combat, awful controls.

    That is a first impression.

    Anything passed that does not matter, you cannot change how missions, combat or controls work and if first impression isn't making him interested into a game, it does not make him interested into learning about the game either.

    Just read his reply - still unwilling to learn, still blaming the game instead of acknolweding simple fact that the game is not for him.

    Clear demonstration of new player behavior that goes with any game.

    The complexity and differentness of the game aren't the primary deciding factor when it comes to new player retention.
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656
    Gdemami said:
    EVE has always struggled to retain new players, that's nothing new.
    ...and do you think other games do any better?

    Take an example of the guy above.

    He jumps into a game and immediate response is: bad quest, crappy combat, awful controls.

    That is a first impression.

    Anything passed that does not matter, you cannot change how missions, combat or controls work and if first impression isn't making him interested into a game, it does not make him interested into learning about the game either.

    Just read his reply - still unwilling to learn, still blaming the game instead of acknolweding simple fact that the game is not for him.

    Clear demonstration of new player behavior that goes with any game.

    The complexity and differentness of the game aren't the primary deciding factor when it comes to new player retention.
    So not only are you ignoring what I wrote and the article, now you are putting words in my mouth. I played eve for about a year in spite of the obvious flaws it has. The game has terrible quests and combat. 
  • iGumballStariGumballStar Member UncommonPosts: 106
    edited July 2016
    It is complicated, punishing and too time-consuming. I playd it for 2 days so this is an opinion coming from a person who tried to get into the game but had a hard time doing so. Maybe I gave up to easily and I should have given it more time but as far as new players go, I think most have simliar experiences to the one I have had.


  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,728
    Gdemami said:
    Baitness said:
    I think they are right to look at the terrible tutorial as a culprit, but they also need to consider how bad quests are in general, how crappy combat is, and that the community itself is capable of driving people away.

    When I played I stuck past the tutorial because it is fun to learn about the game, and you are constantly learning.  The beauty of the game pulled me in, and it is even more lovely now.  I was shocked at how awful the controls and combat were, though.  I understand the issues with providing more action based combat when you have a global server, but that doesn't change that you autoattack things to death while occasionally tweaking your automatic orbit.

    Also frustrating is that eve has some great stories to tell, but they are all completely out of the game.  The books and the eve chronicles short stories are excellent.  The quests in the game are like guildleves from ffxiv, except far smaller in number and with less randomization.  Questing in eve sucks.

    Most people I met got their enjoyment in the game from making and executing creative plans, ranging from ganking miners to using wormholes to transport goods quickly to invading enemy territory.  The people having fun were the people making decisions and taking advantage of the sandbox elements.  Almost all of them had more than one account.

    It seems to me that CCP needs to take the time to make eve fun to play, not just fun to manage.
    It is not the game, it is you....
    No, he's right. It's the game.

  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    edited July 2016
    I tried it three times since it conception. Just not for me. All these years later and all the fanboys trying to tell us how good it is....yet everything I read about how it is now....why would anyone try it?

    Sums it up - "It is complicated, punishing and too time-consuming"

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • unfilteredJWunfilteredJW Member UncommonPosts: 307
    Well, yeah. I thought I was playing a cool space game and it was just menus.

    I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.

    Current: Dragonrealms

  • MyrradahMyrradah Member UncommonPosts: 86
    joeri123 said:
    I am one of those players. Although I did try it for at least 2-3 days. I really liked how it looked and played. The only thing that put me off was that you train skills passively and even when offline. I'd rather get exp and skill points from actually doing the tasks itself. I also had the constant feeling that I would never reach a point where I was relevant or as strong as the more veteran players. Plus needing two or more accounts for more advanced gameplay put me off too. I like having one main character
    There are only so many skills to train in areas. You always catch up. if a player has 200 mil SP, more than half of that is in Capital ships or industry etc and not reelvent to you fighting him one on one in a frigate. After about 3 months you can be on par with someone who has 200 mil SP in a Frigate, Dessie, Cruisers etc. not a BB and higher yet, you need a little more time.

    I have over 175 mil SP. been playing since beta and I love flying T1 frigs solo PvP. So yes there are players out there who fly those ships even at 175 mil SP.

    Just know that the number of SP is irrelevant - its experience and willingness to task risks, learn from your losses and get better. Without that, you are likely best to just move on.
  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    "After about 3 months you can be on par with someone who has 200 mil SP in a Frigate, Dessie, Cruisers etc. not a BB and higher yet, you need a little more time. "

    Yeah...sounds great....3 months huh?


    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • MyrradahMyrradah Member UncommonPosts: 86
    Kane72 said:
    The other thing to add, in years gone by, you could join a corp and just play, but now they want your API key for everything and you need to be on a chat channel with them - loads of hassle to go through just to play the game.  The game takes so long for anything exciting to happen that I can see why 2 hours would be plenty for some.
    The API is simple and no risk at all. it takes all of 5 minutes. The chat channels and communication are there to actually help you. To learn to play any MMO good, its best to be in a group (Corp in Eve). Why? You learn from them, ask questions, form bonds etc.

    Those bonds are the reason many people stay in Eve. If you dont form bonds or friendships with other players, in any MMO, you will leave. I have been in Eve since beta and still am because im always forming new friendships and bonds.

    The game is open, it is up to you to decide what to do. Then you proceed in doing it and learning more about it, taking bigger risks as you can afford it and building up those bonds with people that have similar interest.

    Eve is no different than any other game in this respect.
  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    "Eve is no different than any other game in this respect. "

    You're not a politician are you?

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,283
    "After about 3 months you can be on par with someone who has 200 mil SP in a Frigate, Dessie, Cruisers etc. not a BB and higher yet, you need a little more time. "

    Yeah...sounds great....3 months huh?


    You play EVE across years, not months, definitely a title for the more patient gamer looking for a universe to make a name in.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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