George Lucas HIMSELF has said MANY times that Star Wars is a classic FANTASY Story told in the form of Sci-Fi.
Dragons? Knights with Glowing Swords fighting evil Dark Knights? Witches? Mounts? Princesses? A Dark Lord in Armor, and a boy rising up to defeat him? Sounds like Fantasy to me, lol.
Star Wars is a hybrid of Fantasy & Sci-Fi. The Star Wars Universe is a Fantasy World. Sorry man, but that really means nothing.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by rkabyrne Yes. Daily. And the first thing that deters me from them is vagueness or non-specific requirements. Such as requesting fantasy experience when the project is Sci-Fi. Every GOOD position has detail requirements of what they are looking for, especially if they are looking for honest to goodness developers versus management.
There are gazillion "pieces of circumstantial evidence" THAT Bioware takes over "the licence for a game which could be considered something like SWG was in the past".
There are ALSO a gazillion "pieces of circumstantial evidence" that this all is not true and just a rumour, an "interpretation" into something we would LIKE to see.
Of course, you are right, you could say "fanatasy" is clearly what we know as WoW, FF XII etc etc etc. You could also say, SWG is fantasy, SoE themself are calling SWG "a fantasygame" somewhere in theri EULA/TOS.
Honestly, we dont KNOW anything.
We can guess, we can wish, we can see things the way we WANT to see them. We can also dislike the idea of Bioware taking it over, there was another thread HOW Bioware wants to make SWG better, where some ideas werent cool at all....
We can spend our time here, trolling around, fantasize (sp?) about what COULD be - but at the end its just a fanatasy.
Even if SoE' would say "Not true" - it would mean NOTHING. They were lying many times in the past, so nothing new here.
Of course, you wonder why Bioware didnt say clearly and short "Hate to smash your dreams folks, but unfortunatly this is not true. We were not contacted by LEC to take over the SWG licence".
You wonder why they just say "No comment". If something isnt true, say that it isnt true: Case closed.
But they didnt..makes ME wonder at least. But also here: Just guessing.
Even IF there is something true in it, you wont read it anytime soon. Tell you why, assuming (fictional from now on) Bioware is in charge:
They need to rework a LOT LOT LOT of code, starting with the engine. Its not REALLY a biggie to rework an engine (like coldboot said in the off. forums) - many companys did that and reworked their engines in existing games (DAoC /wink).
But it needs time. Then the coding itself, the changes, the need to get used to the code, to fill the gaps where the documentation is sloppy/missing etc etc.
A huge work ahead. As long as this isnt set, the game coulsd run under "lifesupport" in SoE's hand.
But imagine the customer if it would such rumour would be confirmed. From THEN on, each and every customer KNOWS, that whatever he is doing ingame, whatever he is working on, whatever he tries to get: Its vanishing as soon as the BioRevamp goes life (diff. code, diff. game, diff. database).
So from then on, SoE would be nothing but a lifesupporter, and that would cause a LOT of customers canceling, waiting for the new, the "real" SWG then.
You might understand that is something which is to avoid under all circumstances.
So even IF the rumour is remotly true, we will not read a confirmation till that day where the game is ready to go live - and for that case, SoE/LEC/Bioware for SURE signed a "smooth transition deal".
I cant see why Bioware would want to get involved with LA and SWG as it could seriously damage there reputation , they could create a NWN MMO and not have to take crap from the likes of Torres
Originally posted by Brete I cant see why Bioware would want to get involved with LA and SWG as it could seriously damage there reputation , they could create a NWN MMO and not have to take crap from the likes of Torres
That is a very valid point.
Bioware is aware of LEC since they did Kotor. Bioware knows, that LEC is a not really a company you want to work with if you are a CREATIVE company. LEC is just looking for "hands", doing the work LEC isnt technically able to.
And Bioware prolly knows that even TOUCHING anything with the name LEC or SWG in it could lead to death instantly, seeing the downfall of SoE. SoE broke their own neck almost completely over this one title...i dont think any other company wants to have a remake of that
But like said, noone knows...maybe -and thats just the same guess like the rumour is- IF they make an appropiate contract considering this: "You know LEC, noone in this business wants to work with you anymore. We are done with you, SoE is done with you (soon®) and SciFi isnt even the big market. If you want to find some1 doing the dirty work making the 437'th Version if a Star Wars Game for you now, you must pay a fortune. Since 30 yrs we see Star Wars T-Shirts, Star Wars Coffee Cups, Star Wars printed Kotex and Star Wars whatever".
And the first "new age" MMORPG able to pull a good amount of money was ruined by SoE whos motherconcern is more interessted in harming the consumers computer with rootkits instead of feeling the pulse of the customer and what they want.
If anyone on this planet even remotly feels the need to sign a suicidal contract, you must pay so very much money to cover the fact, that this might be the last project of the contracted company...
So in the future, you will face contracts made from their company lawyers - not yours.
And be very sure, the first paragraph reads like "Lucas Art is giving an lose general framework to Bioware. Bioware is moving within this framework without the need to ask LEC for anything as long as moving within this framework".
And if you dont like these conditions, LEC - do it your own, stop bugging and close the door behind you - we have much work and need to get it done, for customers actually paying for quality and not for dreams coming from the green desk of someone whos even dont know that the singular of Jedi is Jedi, not Jedis.
As much as I would love to believe that Bioware was taking over SWG, doing a KOTOR MMO or anything else regarding Star Wars I just don't believe it. I read that part about fantasy experience in the posting myself and although I agree Star Wars is fantasy oriented to some degree I don't think they would say that if Star Wars was the content. I think it is more likely that the MMO will be Neverwinter Nights or Baldurs Gate.
In addition, don't forget that Bioware has dealt with Lucasarts before when they made KOTOR 1. I heard lots of rumors about them not getting along very well and Bioware not doing KOTOR 2 seems to confirm this in my mind. I think the company line at the time was something like Bioware was too busy to work on it or something, but since when is any company too busy to make money? That says to me that the first KOTOR was an unpleasant experience and they didn't want to do it again.
So the question to ask yourself is this. If Bioware disliked Lucasarts so much that they declined to work on KOTOR 2 which was destined to be an instant hit due to KOTOR 1's success why would they sign on to do a Star Wars MMO? Bioware is a bigger and more powerful company now and there is no reason they would sign on to get the pittance Lucasarts would give them for doing their MMO when they could release something based on their own product line and keep all the money for themselves.
Again...I would be very happy if I was wrong, but I just don't see it happening.
Originally posted by Mordah As much as I would love to believe that Bioware was taking over SWG, doing a KOTOR MMO or anything else regarding Star Wars I just don't believe it. I read that part about fantasy experience in the posting myself and although I agree Star Wars is fantasy oriented to some degree I don't think they would say that if Star Wars was the content. I think it is more likely that the MMO will be Neverwinter Nights or Baldurs Gate. In addition, don't forget that Bioware has dealt with Lucasarts before when they made KOTOR 1. I heard lots of rumors about them not getting along very well and Bioware not doing KOTOR 2 seems to confirm this in my mind. I think the company line at the time was something like Bioware was too busy to work on it or something, but since when is any company too busy to make money? That says to me that the first KOTOR was an unpleasant experience and they didn't want to do it again. So the question to ask yourself is this. If Bioware disliked Lucasarts so much that they declined to work on KOTOR 2 which was destined to be an instant hit due to KOTOR 1's success why would they sign on to do a Star Wars MMO? Bioware is a bigger and more powerful company now and there is no reason they would sign on to get the pittance Lucasarts would give them for doing their MMO when they could release something based on their own product line and keep all the money for themselves. Again...I would be very happy if I was wrong, but I just don't see it happening.
Not necessarily that they disliked LEC too much to do KOTOR 2, just that they had all of their resources tied up into Jade Empire (which, btw, was huge).
And they won't be doing NWN or Baldur's Gate - those aren't Bioware's intellectual properties. Those are both setin Forgotten Realms, AD&D. And it would be silly for another AD&D MMO to come out right on the heels of DDO. Two competing titles for AD&D wouldn't make sense.
Not saying I buy all of the rumour mill hype, but if Bioware isn't doing anything to do with SW and/or SWG, it won't be for the reasons you listed.
Not necessarily that they disliked LEC too much to do KOTOR 2, just that they had all of their resources tied up into Jade Empire (which, btw, was huge). And they won't be doing NWN or Baldur's Gate - those aren't Bioware's intellectual properties. Those are both setin Forgotten Realms, AD&D. And it would be silly for another AD&D MMO to come out right on the heels of DDO. Two competing titles for AD&D wouldn't make sense. Not saying I buy all of the rumour mill hype, but if Bioware isn't doing anything to do with SW and/or SWG, it won't be for the reasons you listed.
I wasn't aware that NWN and Baldurs Gate were AD&D projects as I don't particularly care for swords and sorcery type games and haven't played either, but they were really just examples because they were pretty big hits for Bioware. They have a number of other games like Dragon Realms they could use as well (which I also know nothing about). My point simply was that I tend to believe it is more likely they will make a fantasy game based on something they have already done before as opposed to dealing with Lucasarts again. LA being difficult and basically an industry bully is certainly a well known fact in nearly every entertainment genre from comic books to videogames so I don't see why that wouldn't be plausible.
I also was aware that Jade Empire was what they all claimed was taking up their time, but I am not buying that. It isn't like they knew JE was going to be some guaranteed hit like KOTOR 2 was and in the final analysis although JE is considered a good game it isn't even in the same category as the KOTOR series. KOTOR 2 was money in the bank for whoever made it, but the catch is that whoever made it had to cope with LA and their demands as well.
And as far as releasing 2 AD&D MMO titles all I can say is that you only have to look at the absolute flood of fantasy genre MMO's to realize this could possibly happen. Especially if they are different parts of the AD&D lore. In fact, weren't there a bunch of people who were complaining that DDO wasn't set in the most popular part of that lore or something?
Originally posted by Gronkster Bioware posted that they will NOT be working on any MMORPG that requires licensing. They also posted that they will not work with Lucasarts again.
Wether you want to believe or not - they ARE NOT doing SWG or have anything to do with it. That's why they turned down KOTOR3.
Dude.. let them dream for awhile lol Don't sweat it bro, anything that proves this lot wrong they just ignore. Then later on they'll tell you you never provide any proof.
Originally posted by Shayde Yeah.. I was reading their forums. Basically he said everything about them working on non-licensed products came BEFORE the MMO announcement. So he says the licensed issue is moot, but will neither confirm nor deny... except that it isn't a go-bots project.
Originally posted by Gronkster Bioware posted that they will NOT be working on any MMORPG that requires licensing. They also posted that they will not work with Lucasarts again.
Wether you want to believe or not - they ARE NOT doing SWG or have anything to do with it. That's why they turned down KOTOR3.
Dude.. let them dream for awhile lol
Don't sweat it bro, anything that proves this lot wrong they just ignore. Then later on they'll tell you you never provide any proof.
Anyone want to post that link AGAIN sigh. Bioware stated later that this had changed and they would work on another IP again. The previous statement is old and made before they announced their MMO
Originally posted by Jodokai Don't sweat it bro, anything that proves this lot wrong they just ignore. Then later on they'll tell you you never provide any proof.
Well you don't.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Jodokai, to steal a phrase from the guys... WHY YOU BE HATIN? Sheesh, it's not like anyone wins here. If anything, every last one of us are losers because we paid an assload of money for a game that just won't stay consistant, even in its sucktitude. You'd think that we could be nicer to each other here since every last one of us has taken it in the rear from SOE and LA somewhere along the line.
If these guys are getting even the slightest shred of amusement or fun out of this rumor, they should be welcome to it. Lord knows they've earned the right to it. Their hopes and fantasies about having a game that resembles the one we all used to have doesn't hurt you or take away your fun in the least, so giving them this kind of sass in the forums over something so silly is just downright mean. That's right. *I*, the queen of spleen and resident mean girl am calling YOU downright mean. Now that should tell you something, since I'm not stomping on these guys' virtual sacs but you are. Like maybe you should let them have what little they've got without trying to take it away from them while making schoolyard bully noises.
Originally posted by azhrarn Jodokai, to steal a phrase from the guys... WHY YOU BE HATIN? Sheesh, it's not like anyone wins here. If anything, every last one of us are losers because we paid an assload of money for a game that just won't stay consistant, even in its sucktitude. You'd think that we could be nicer to each other here since every last one of us has taken it in the rear from SOE and LA somewhere along the line. Azhrarn, I absolutely agree, LEC and SOE have screwed us over, and will contiue to do so. The difference is, while you and know LEC was just as responsible as SOE, others refuse to see the connection. No matter what is shown to them, or how often I've proven it, they continue to burry their heads and say I don't provide proof. If these guys are getting even the slightest shred of amusement or fun out of this rumor, they should be welcome to it. Lord knows they've earned the right to it. Their hopes and fantasies about having a game that resembles the one we all used to have doesn't hurt you or take away your fun in the least, so giving them this kind of sass in the forums over something so silly is just downright mean. That's right. *I*, the queen of spleen and resident mean girl am calling YOU downright mean. Now that should tell you something, since I'm not stomping on these guys' virtual sacs but you are. Like maybe you should let them have what little they've got without trying to take it away from them while making schoolyard bully noises. Because these rumors have no basis in fact. I think people actually take out their brains to post on this forum. A game company asking for people familar with the FANTASY genre could possibly mean something other than the FANTASY genre is just pure stupidity.
Fantasy is a very general term, you're viewing it from the most narrow perspective. BioWare would be fairly stupid to release a magic/swords Fantasy game as those games saturate the market already (WoW, GW, DDO, EQII, ect). From a business standpoint it'd be much easier for BioWare to make a popular, successful, profitable MMO in the sci-fi fantasy genre. Nobody really wants another swords/magic MMO, we have enough of those.
========== SWG - 1st Gen MBH (Closed) EVE (Closed) WoW (61 Orc Hunter - Blackwing Lair) GuildWars (Boring...)
Originally posted by Carbide Fantasy is a very general term, you're viewing it from the most narrow perspective. BioWare would be fairly stupid to release a magic/swords Fantasy game as those games saturate the market already (WoW, GW, DDO, EQII, ect). From a business standpoint it'd be much easier for BioWare to make a popular, successful, profitable MMO in the sci-fi fantasy genre. Nobody really wants another swords/magic MMO, we have enough of those.
Of course fantasy is a general term. And over used in the industry. Look at how many gmaes coming out are fantasy. Look how many are sci-fi. Then look at how many fantasy vs. sci-fi games bioware has produced. Then come back and tell me IF they were making a sci-fi, WHY THE HELL would they NOT clarify. They WOULD want to stand out and do a sci-fi instead of a fantasy. BUT - everyone is making a fantasy, blech.
DM: Let me get this right: The dragons breath knocks you over the 300' cliff onto the jagged rocks below and you want a saving throw?
Originally posted by Jodokai Originally posted by Shayde Well you don't. See what I mean? What'll really crack you up, is the last time Shayde said I didn't provide proof is this classic statement: "The only proof you have are the credits on the box" as if that is somehow not proof.
I'll say it another time.
What is written on the side of a box is NOT the job description. We don't know HOW involved anyone from LA was during ANY stage of the production of SWG. While YOU believe the title of "Producer" means that everyone with that title shares the same responsibility EVERYWHERE.. in what we call the "real world" it doesn't.
Especially when ALL messages from Smed has stated that LA has RECENTLY been more involved. EVERYTHING in the game for the last two years was attributed to $OE and not LA.
But as you say.. some type on a box proves everything.
You know what? The side of my boxed set of The Simpsons says Sam Simon is the "Executive producer" of the show. Well, in your world it would make him responsible for all the decisions made in each episode . You know what he REALLY does? Cashes his checks. He's done NOTHING with that show for 12 years. Name is still in the credits.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I'll say it another time. What is written on the side of a box is NOT the job description. We don't know HOW involved anyone from LA was during ANY stage of the production of SWG. While YOU believe the title of "Producer" means that everyone with that title shares the same responsibility EVERYWHERE.. in what we call the "real world" it doesn't. Especially when ALL messages from Smed has stated that LA has RECENTLY been more involved. EVERYTHING in the game for the last two years was attributed to $OE and not LA. But as you say.. some type on a box proves everything. You know what? The side of my boxed set of The Simpsons says Sam Simon is the "Executive producer" of the show. Well, in your world it would make him responsible for all the decisions made in each episode . You know what he REALLY does? Cashes his checks. He's done NOTHING with that show for 12 years. Name is still in the credits. You realize this, and yet hold Smeadly responsible for everything that's happened with SWG. Why isn't he just "cashing a check"? Guess it only works when it suites you huh?
Shayde I'm not about to fall into our usual cycle of you saying something, me proving you wrong, you ignoring it then saying I don't provide proof. I'm pretty much over that.
Everyone that has followed our discussions has either seen the light (which is why so many more people are saying SOE/LEC) or are like you and refuse to. I've shown you time and time again that LEC has been involved. Other people have posted things that they credited to SOE but were really from LEC, I've pointed this out and you ignore it.
Posts that were credited to SOE from YEARS ago that were actually LEC, and again you ignore it when I point it out to you.
Websites about SWG that were credited to SOE but were actually from LEC and you ignore that too.
Posts from developers that say everything we do has to be approved by LEC, yet you either ignore it or say they are lying.
For the new people that missed it before, this is an argument with Shayde:
Me: Hey Shayde the sky is blue. Shayde: No it isn't. Me: Yes it is Look. *Takes shayde outside and shows him the blue sky* Shayde: I don't believe it, and you can't prove it.
And just in case people need further proof (that will be later called not producing any proof), this is a Bioware employee describing what a Producer does for a game: I've highlighed the important parts. You can read the full thread here: http://forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=452611&forum=84&sp=0
Stanley Woo QA Ninja
Joined: 17 Oct 2001 From: Neptar
Posted: Friday, 07 October 2005 11:50AM
Seems pretty complex. From what I know, the publisher is the one who spends all the money to get the game from the developer to the store shelves. They do the advertising, arrange for the manufacturing and distribution, and pay the developer so it can pay its employees. They also provide QA services, making sure the game works as intended.
Heck, compared to the publisher, the developer is small potatoes,which is something that some developer advocates are trying to change.
Videogame publishers do pretty much the same thing as book publishers, if that's any clearer.
Assuming Bioware produces SWG and the rumors are true, it could be a deathknell for Bioware OR it could turn Bioware into a legend! What better success could Bioware have than sticking it to Sony and breaking into the MMORPG market with their own game.
Ok I started an account just so I can join in the speculation! Fun fun!
(background though...I play swg yes yes I know...SUCKER!...I don't like the NGE or where the game as a whole is heading *flush sounds* but nothing currently out there appeals to me, though i MAY try EVE...Im waiting for Roma Victor/Age of Conan..now onto the speculation!)
One factor that I have yet to be seen mentioned is Bioware is no longer JUST Bioware...its now Bioware/Pandemic. Pandemic games also has ties to LA ala Battlefront II (which is a pretty fun game IMO)
What does this mean? probably nothing, but just another piece to the huge puzzle in favor of a possible Bioware takeover of SWG...or is it?
Bioware and Pandemic also have ties to Another game company that has a VERY Lucrative liscence that would probably be an instant hit if done right...can anyone guess? anyone? ok Ill speculate for you...Interplay.
Bioware worked with Interplay/blackIsle on the baldersgate titles but that relationship imploded, as did blackIsle (which reformed as Obsidion entertainment...which got the liscence from LA/bioware to do KOTOR2 and NWN2...) Pandemic also did work with Interplay...and this is where i really start to speculate...they did FALLOUT TACTICS. a fun little game...a bit too linear but fun none the less.
Now for the punchline...its possible that Interplay, desperate for cash sold the rights for FALLOUT MMO (fallout 3 rights were already sold off to Bethseda...if that is spelled correctly) to Pandemic which now along with Bioware, have the know-how and resources to do a Major MMO on one of the most popular RPGS ever made....FALLOUT ONLINE!!!
Or bioware could be taking over a dated, hacked up, soured fan base of an MMO....
Comments
ROFLMAO!!!!
George Lucas HIMSELF has said MANY times that Star Wars is a classic FANTASY Story told in the form of Sci-Fi.
Dragons? Knights with Glowing Swords fighting evil Dark Knights? Witches? Mounts? Princesses? A Dark Lord in Armor, and a boy rising up to defeat him? Sounds like Fantasy to me, lol.
Star Wars is a hybrid of Fantasy & Sci-Fi. The Star Wars Universe is a Fantasy World. Sorry man, but that really means nothing.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
"Only when a human being realized the frivolity of their own existance, can they begin to learn what is significant." - Me
There are gazillion "pieces of circumstantial evidence" THAT Bioware takes over "the licence for a game which could be considered something like SWG was in the past".
There are ALSO a gazillion "pieces of circumstantial evidence" that this all is not true and just a rumour, an "interpretation" into something we would LIKE to see.
Of course, you are right, you could say "fanatasy" is clearly what we know as WoW, FF XII etc etc etc.
You could also say, SWG is fantasy, SoE themself are calling SWG "a fantasygame" somewhere in theri EULA/TOS.
Honestly, we dont KNOW anything.
We can guess, we can wish, we can see things the way we WANT to see them.
We can also dislike the idea of Bioware taking it over, there was another thread HOW Bioware wants to make SWG better, where some ideas werent cool at all....
We can spend our time here, trolling around, fantasize (sp?) about what COULD be - but at the end its just a fanatasy.
Even if SoE' would say "Not true" - it would mean NOTHING.
They were lying many times in the past, so nothing new here.
Of course, you wonder why Bioware didnt say clearly and short
"Hate to smash your dreams folks, but unfortunatly this is not true. We were not contacted by LEC to take over the SWG licence".
You wonder why they just say "No comment". If something isnt true, say that it isnt true: Case closed.
But they didnt..makes ME wonder at least.
But also here: Just guessing.
Even IF there is something true in it, you wont read it anytime soon.
Tell you why, assuming (fictional from now on) Bioware is in charge:
They need to rework a LOT LOT LOT of code, starting with the engine.
Its not REALLY a biggie to rework an engine (like coldboot said in the off. forums) - many companys did that and reworked their engines in existing games (DAoC /wink).
But it needs time.
Then the coding itself, the changes, the need to get used to the code, to fill the gaps where the documentation is sloppy/missing etc etc.
A huge work ahead.
As long as this isnt set, the game coulsd run under "lifesupport" in SoE's hand.
But imagine the customer if it would such rumour would be confirmed.
From THEN on, each and every customer KNOWS, that whatever he is doing ingame, whatever he is working on, whatever he tries to get: Its vanishing as soon as the BioRevamp goes life (diff. code, diff. game, diff. database).
So from then on, SoE would be nothing but a lifesupporter, and that would cause a LOT of customers canceling, waiting for the new, the "real" SWG then.
You might understand that is something which is to avoid under all circumstances.
So even IF the rumour is remotly true, we will not read a confirmation till that day where the game is ready to go live - and for that case, SoE/LEC/Bioware for SURE signed a "smooth transition deal".
Claude
That is a very valid point.
Bioware is aware of LEC since they did Kotor. Bioware knows, that LEC is a not really a company you want to work with if you are a CREATIVE company. LEC is just looking for "hands", doing the work LEC isnt technically able to.
And Bioware prolly knows that even TOUCHING anything with the name LEC or SWG in it could lead to death instantly, seeing the downfall of SoE. SoE broke their own neck almost completely over this one title...i dont think any other company wants to have a remake of that
But like said, noone knows...maybe -and thats just the same guess like the rumour is- IF they make an appropiate contract considering this:
"You know LEC, noone in this business wants to work with you anymore. We are done with you, SoE is done with you (soon®) and SciFi isnt even the big market. If you want to find some1 doing the dirty work making the 437'th Version if a Star Wars Game for you now, you must pay a fortune. Since 30 yrs we see Star Wars T-Shirts, Star Wars Coffee Cups, Star Wars printed Kotex and Star Wars whatever".
And the first "new age" MMORPG able to pull a good amount of money was ruined by SoE whos motherconcern is more interessted in harming the consumers computer with rootkits instead of feeling the pulse of the customer and what they want.
If anyone on this planet even remotly feels the need to sign a suicidal contract, you must pay so very much money to cover the fact, that this might be the last project of the contracted company...
So in the future, you will face contracts made from their company lawyers - not yours.
And be very sure, the first paragraph reads like "Lucas Art is giving an lose general framework to Bioware. Bioware is moving within this framework without the need to ask LEC for anything as long as moving within this framework".
And if you dont like these conditions, LEC - do it your own, stop bugging and close the door behind you - we have much work and need to get it done, for customers actually paying for quality and not for dreams coming from the green desk of someone whos even dont know that the singular of Jedi is Jedi, not Jedis.
Well, or something like this
Claude
As much as I would love to believe that Bioware was taking over SWG, doing a KOTOR MMO or anything else regarding Star Wars I just don't believe it. I read that part about fantasy experience in the posting myself and although I agree Star Wars is fantasy oriented to some degree I don't think they would say that if Star Wars was the content. I think it is more likely that the MMO will be Neverwinter Nights or Baldurs Gate.
In addition, don't forget that Bioware has dealt with Lucasarts before when they made KOTOR 1. I heard lots of rumors about them not getting along very well and Bioware not doing KOTOR 2 seems to confirm this in my mind. I think the company line at the time was something like Bioware was too busy to work on it or something, but since when is any company too busy to make money? That says to me that the first KOTOR was an unpleasant experience and they didn't want to do it again.
So the question to ask yourself is this. If Bioware disliked Lucasarts so much that they declined to work on KOTOR 2 which was destined to be an instant hit due to KOTOR 1's success why would they sign on to do a Star Wars MMO? Bioware is a bigger and more powerful company now and there is no reason they would sign on to get the pittance Lucasarts would give them for doing their MMO when they could release something based on their own product line and keep all the money for themselves.
Again...I would be very happy if I was wrong, but I just don't see it happening.
Not necessarily that they disliked LEC too much to do KOTOR 2, just that they had all of their resources tied up into Jade Empire (which, btw, was huge).
And they won't be doing NWN or Baldur's Gate - those aren't Bioware's intellectual properties. Those are both setin Forgotten Realms, AD&D. And it would be silly for another AD&D MMO to come out right on the heels of DDO. Two competing titles for AD&D wouldn't make sense.
Not saying I buy all of the rumour mill hype, but if Bioware isn't doing anything to do with SW and/or SWG, it won't be for the reasons you listed.
I wasn't aware that NWN and Baldurs Gate were AD&D projects as I don't particularly care for swords and sorcery type games and haven't played either, but they were really just examples because they were pretty big hits for Bioware. They have a number of other games like Dragon Realms they could use as well (which I also know nothing about). My point simply was that I tend to believe it is more likely they will make a fantasy game based on something they have already done before as opposed to dealing with Lucasarts again. LA being difficult and basically an industry bully is certainly a well known fact in nearly every entertainment genre from comic books to videogames so I don't see why that wouldn't be plausible.
I also was aware that Jade Empire was what they all claimed was taking up their time, but I am not buying that. It isn't like they knew JE was going to be some guaranteed hit like KOTOR 2 was and in the final analysis although JE is considered a good game it isn't even in the same category as the KOTOR series. KOTOR 2 was money in the bank for whoever made it, but the catch is that whoever made it had to cope with LA and their demands as well.
And as far as releasing 2 AD&D MMO titles all I can say is that you only have to look at the absolute flood of fantasy genre MMO's to realize this could possibly happen. Especially if they are different parts of the AD&D lore. In fact, weren't there a bunch of people who were complaining that DDO wasn't set in the most popular part of that lore or something?
Don't sweat it bro, anything that proves this lot wrong they just ignore. Then later on they'll tell you you never provide any proof.
Don't sweat it bro, anything that proves this lot wrong they just ignore. Then later on they'll tell you you never provide any proof.
Anyone want to post that link AGAIN sigh. Bioware stated later that this had changed and they would work on another IP again. The previous statement is old and made before they announced their MMO
Well you don't.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Jodokai, to steal a phrase from the guys... WHY YOU BE HATIN? Sheesh, it's not like anyone wins here. If anything, every last one of us are losers because we paid an assload of money for a game that just won't stay consistant, even in its sucktitude. You'd think that we could be nicer to each other here since every last one of us has taken it in the rear from SOE and LA somewhere along the line.
If these guys are getting even the slightest shred of amusement or fun out of this rumor, they should be welcome to it. Lord knows they've earned the right to it. Their hopes and fantasies about having a game that resembles the one we all used to have doesn't hurt you or take away your fun in the least, so giving them this kind of sass in the forums over something so silly is just downright mean. That's right. *I*, the queen of spleen and resident mean girl am calling YOU downright mean. Now that should tell you something, since I'm not stomping on these guys' virtual sacs but you are. Like maybe you should let them have what little they've got without trying to take it away from them while making schoolyard bully noises.
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
See what I mean? What'll really crack you up, is the last time Shayde said I didn't provide proof is this classic statement:
"The only proof you have are the credits on the box"
as if that is somehow not proof.
I could see it as being stuff besides orcs and goblins. Even star wars is considered space fantasy if you think about it.
Fantasy is a very general term, you're viewing it from the most narrow perspective. BioWare would be fairly stupid to release a magic/swords Fantasy game as those games saturate the market already (WoW, GW, DDO, EQII, ect). From a business standpoint it'd be much easier for BioWare to make a popular, successful, profitable MMO in the sci-fi fantasy genre. Nobody really wants another swords/magic MMO, we have enough of those.
==========
SWG - 1st Gen MBH (Closed)
EVE (Closed)
WoW (61 Orc Hunter - Blackwing Lair)
GuildWars (Boring...)
DM: Let me get this right: The dragons breath knocks you over the 300' cliff onto the jagged rocks below and you want a saving throw?
I'll say it another time.
What is written on the side of a box is NOT the job description. We don't know HOW involved anyone from LA was during ANY stage of the production of SWG. While YOU believe the title of "Producer" means that everyone with that title shares the same responsibility EVERYWHERE.. in what we call the "real world" it doesn't.
Especially when ALL messages from Smed has stated that LA has RECENTLY been more involved. EVERYTHING in the game for the last two years was attributed to $OE and not LA.
But as you say.. some type on a box proves everything.
You know what? The side of my boxed set of The Simpsons says Sam Simon is the "Executive producer" of the show. Well, in your world it would make him responsible for all the decisions made in each episode . You know what he REALLY does? Cashes his checks. He's done NOTHING with that show for 12 years. Name is still in the credits.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I have a credit as an artist/animator! I actually did build and animate assets though =/
(Not for SWG.. realized this could be interpreted that way)
==========
SWG - 1st Gen MBH (Closed)
EVE (Closed)
WoW (61 Orc Hunter - Blackwing Lair)
GuildWars (Boring...)
Shayde I'm not about to fall into our usual cycle of you saying something, me proving you wrong, you ignoring it then saying I don't provide proof. I'm pretty much over that.
Everyone that has followed our discussions has either seen the light (which is why so many more people are saying SOE/LEC) or are like you and refuse to. I've shown you time and time again that LEC has been involved. Other people have posted things that they credited to SOE but were really from LEC, I've pointed this out and you ignore it.
Posts that were credited to SOE from YEARS ago that were actually LEC, and again you ignore it when I point it out to you.
Websites about SWG that were credited to SOE but were actually from LEC and you ignore that too.
Posts from developers that say everything we do has to be approved by LEC, yet you either ignore it or say they are lying.
For the new people that missed it before, this is an argument with Shayde:
Me: Hey Shayde the sky is blue.
Shayde: No it isn't.
Me: Yes it is Look. *Takes shayde outside and shows him the blue sky*
Shayde: I don't believe it, and you can't prove it.
And just in case people need further proof (that will be later called not producing any proof), this is a Bioware employee describing what a Producer does for a game: I've highlighed the important parts. You can read the full thread here: http://forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=452611&forum=84&sp=0
QA Ninja
Joined: 17 Oct 2001
From: Neptar
Heck, compared to the publisher, the developer is small potatoes,which is something that some developer advocates are trying to change.
Videogame publishers do pretty much the same thing as book publishers, if that's any clearer.
And if you read here: http://forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=452611&forum=84&sp=0 you will see that Bioware repeatedly says they are not intested in another licenced game, they want to develop their own IP. I know, I know that's not proof either.
Assuming Bioware produces SWG and the rumors are true, it could be a deathknell for Bioware OR it could turn Bioware into a legend! What better success could Bioware have than sticking it to Sony and breaking into the MMORPG market with their own game.
Clearly, this thread is no more or less speculative than others about how SWG will be end of lifed.
But, rest assured, it will see the end of its life sooner than later.
Ok I started an account just so I can join in the speculation! Fun fun!
(background though...I play swg yes yes I know...SUCKER!...I don't like the NGE or where the game as a whole is heading *flush sounds* but nothing currently out there appeals to me, though i MAY try EVE...Im waiting for Roma Victor/Age of Conan..now onto the speculation!)
One factor that I have yet to be seen mentioned is Bioware is no longer JUST Bioware...its now Bioware/Pandemic. Pandemic games also has ties to LA ala Battlefront II (which is a pretty fun game IMO)
What does this mean? probably nothing, but just another piece to the huge puzzle in favor of a possible Bioware takeover of SWG...or is it?
Bioware and Pandemic also have ties to Another game company that has a VERY Lucrative liscence that would probably be an instant hit if done right...can anyone guess? anyone? ok Ill speculate for you...Interplay.
Bioware worked with Interplay/blackIsle on the baldersgate titles but that relationship imploded, as did blackIsle (which reformed as Obsidion entertainment...which got the liscence from LA/bioware to do KOTOR2 and NWN2...) Pandemic also did work with Interplay...and this is where i really start to speculate...they did FALLOUT TACTICS. a fun little game...a bit too linear but fun none the less.
Now for the punchline...its possible that Interplay, desperate for cash sold the rights for FALLOUT MMO (fallout 3 rights were already sold off to Bethseda...if that is spelled correctly) to Pandemic which now along with Bioware, have the know-how and resources to do a Major MMO on one of the most popular RPGS ever made....FALLOUT ONLINE!!!
Or bioware could be taking over a dated, hacked up, soured fan base of an MMO....
ah speculation is fun!