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Engineers(1.6/2.1) Road to Beta Video's

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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,730
    Distopia said:
    If I were to go by Steam reviews it would tell me there is a significant difference between systems and "meaningful content", but hey why would I let people who play the game tell me it's current issues.
    Indeed, why would you fall for fallacious appeal to authority...

    Played hours does not make one right.
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,207
    Gdemami said:
    Distopia said:
    If I were to go by Steam reviews it would tell me there is a significant difference between systems and "meaningful content", but hey why would I let people who play the game tell me it's current issues.
    Indeed, why would you fall for fallacious appeal to authority...

    Played hours does not make one right.
    What does make one right?

    Let me guess, agreeing with you? ;)
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,730
    DKLond said:
    What does make one right?

    Let me guess, agreeing with you? ;)
    For starter, understanding that systems IS content and that "meaningful content" does not mean "content I like/approve"...
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    DKLond said:
    To me, the sad thing is that the technology and core systems are really solid. Game looks great, feels great and even sounds great.

    I have a Saitek x52 pro setup - and the game is a joy to control.

    It's just that it feels so incredibly repetitive and pointless after a short while. I mean, I stopped being interested in accumulating wealth for the sake of wealth with Pirates! back in the 80s.

    I don't need that much, just a story or the promise of something truly unique or worthwhile to find while exploring.

    But I absolutely despise "generated" content with zero human craft behind it. It's so painfully dull and obviously systemic.

    That's just me, though.

    That's almost exactly what the reviews for this game say I'd be getting into, and like I said I don't want another rebirth in my collection, which also looks great, plays well, it just gets extremely boring because the content in the game has no real soul in it. That wasn't the case with past X titles, it's actually the exact opposite IMO.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,207
    edited April 2016
    Gdemami said:
    DKLond said:
    What does make one right?

    Let me guess, agreeing with you? ;)
    For starter, understanding that systems IS content and that "meaningful content" does not mean "content I like/approve"...
    As I said, agreeing with you would make me right ;)

    Never has being wrong felt so right!

    You're probably the sort of person who thinks of book covers and indices as content in a book, right?

    I think of story and unique assets as the primary content in games. Systems and mechanics are what I consider gameplay elements - as in the bones of the game, and content is the meat.

    Elite Dangerous is 90% bone and 10% meat - and that's being generous.
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,207
    edited April 2016
    Distopia said:
    DKLond said:
    To me, the sad thing is that the technology and core systems are really solid. Game looks great, feels great and even sounds great.

    I have a Saitek x52 pro setup - and the game is a joy to control.

    It's just that it feels so incredibly repetitive and pointless after a short while. I mean, I stopped being interested in accumulating wealth for the sake of wealth with Pirates! back in the 80s.

    I don't need that much, just a story or the promise of something truly unique or worthwhile to find while exploring.

    But I absolutely despise "generated" content with zero human craft behind it. It's so painfully dull and obviously systemic.

    That's just me, though.

    That's almost exactly what the reviews for this game say I'd be getting into, and like I said I don't want another rebirth in my collection, which also looks great, plays well, it just gets extremely boring because the content in the game has no real soul in it. That wasn't the case with past X titles, it's actually the exact opposite IMO.
    I'd say the gameplay and mechanics of Elite Dangerous are more refined - and the overall "feel" of playing the game is quite superior to Rebirth. It's very slick and polished - where Rebirth, even in its current form, feels clunky and awkward in comparison.

    However, I'd say Rebirth has more meaningful content to experience for the explorer and story hound, even if those elements aren't that great in Rebirth.

    It doesn't help that the multiplayer experience in E:D is very barebones - and it feels almost like an afterthought, which is pretty disturbing given the premise.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,730
    DKLond said:
    Never has being wrong felt so right
    Yep, that is a benefit of ignorance/stupidity...you always feel right.
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,207
    edited April 2016
    Gdemami said:
    DKLond said:
    Never has being wrong felt so right
    Yep, that is a benefit of ignorance/stupidity...you always feel right.
    Thanks for telling me the reason you're so confident :)

    I knew it wasn't a solid and informed position, that's for sure.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,730
    DKLond said:
    Thanks for telling me the reason you're so confident :)

    I knew it wasn't a solid and informed position, that's for sure.
    Well, you are the one feeling "so right"...go figure.
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,207
    edited April 2016
    Gdemami said:
    DKLond said:
    Thanks for telling me the reason you're so confident :)

    I knew it wasn't a solid and informed position, that's for sure.
    Well, you are the one feeling "so right"...go figure.
    Are you admitting you're feeling like you're wrong, then?

    In any case, do you have any rational arguments or valid points to make?

    I mean, going in circles with you because you can't deal with opposing opinions is fun and all - but it doesn't really serve the thread or the other participants.
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,341
    edited April 2016
    DKLond said:
    It doesn't help that the multiplayer experience in E:D is very barebones - and it feels almost like an afterthought, which is pretty disturbing given the premise.

    It was definitely a less important feature at the start, but then the main premise of Elite is one man, their ship and the galaxy.
    While it's not fantastic there have been quite a few improvements for group content with more to come in the next patch, they have player factions (although rather basic) and there's been talk about implememting clans in Elite.

    I'm hoping that with some of the new modules being introduced with the next patch, along with the AI and mission improvements we'll see challenging missions that require a wing to succeed.
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,341
    edited April 2016
    Latest newsletter is out with a bunch of info about The Engineers, what they will offer, how yoo find them, how the crafting works, upgrade examples etc

    Imgur album - https://imgur.com/a/sQFb2
    Offical Newsletter - http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=13b2599b4f


  • TheYear1500TheYear1500 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    DAOWAce said:
    Oh look, quality of life changes that should've been in the game from the beginning!

    That's free right?  Don't need to pay $60 $38 for UI tweaks?

    I know Engineers is supposed to pave the way forward for actual simulation content (ie; not being a lifeless void with nothing but text for people and objects), but seriously.. it's been over 2 years since the playable alpha and the game is almost as bare as it was back then, except it got more expensive.

    While Star Citizen isn't complete, they're making soooo much more progress than Frontier despite starting development later.  By the time E:D gets any meaningful content, Star Citizen and Squadron 42 will have taken their audience.

    Oh, and No Man's Sky.. totally forgot about that.  $60 is still less than what I paid for E:D+H, so I guess I can accept that price.  We can actually walk around planets with life!
    So Star Citizen started development a year before ED, and currently has no content at all.  You mean the Squadron 42 that no one has seen?  Not even game journalists.  You should really check out SC for some real information, they don't even have persistence in their game yet, no game mechanics, and current server pop is capped at 24.

    The next big update for SC?  Yep a cloths shop, hahaha     
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,730
    So Star Citizen started development a year before ED, and currently has no content at all.  You mean the Squadron 42 that no one has seen?  Not even game journalists.  You should really check out SC for some real information, they don't even have persistence in their game yet, no game mechanics, and current server pop is capped at 24.

    The next big update for SC?  Yep a cloths shop, hahaha     
    Development of E: D started in 2009.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite:_Dangerous

    "Starting in 2009, Elite: Dangerous was developed using Frontier Development's own in-house COBRA game development engine.[30] Frontier had been working on the game as a "skunk-works" background activity for some time prior to its Kickstarter launch,[31] with other projects being prioritised.[32]"


    "Having been unable to agree to a funding deal with a publisher for many years, the developer began its Kickstarter campaign in November 2012."

    That means the Kickstarter campaign for Star Citizen and Elite:Dangerous happened at around the same time. But the company for Star Citizen was founded in April 2012, so E:D had a 3 year headstart.

    ***************************************************************************************************

    "Squadron 42 that no one has seen".

    The Morrow Tour, October 2015.



    "Note even game journalists"

    Many articles on SQ42. E.g. this

    http://www.pcgamer.com/inside-squadron-42-star-citizens-ambitious-singleplayer-campaign/

    and this

    http://www.gamestar.de/videos/specials,20/star-citizen-squadron-42,86316.html

    **********************************************************************************************

    >>>>  current server pop is capped at 24 >>>>

    Current INSTANCE population is capped at 24.

    Here is the difference:



    ***********************************************************************************************

    >>>>The next big update for SC ? Yep a cloths shop. hahahaha>>>>

    The next big update is Alpha 2.4 with the main topic being persistence.

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/450458/star-citizen-alpha-2-4-patch-notes


    *************************************************************************************


    One can be a big Elite fan since 1984 and still post some facts about SC instead of propaganda.


    Have fun




  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,341
    If the game has had 7 years work then why was there so little to show at the kickstarter?
    Do people think they were holding back this magic 7 years of development so that Braben with his top hat could suddenly unveil it **taadaa** and look like they had been super productive or some crap?
    How could they have spent all that time developing a game and yet launch with something that was light on features? That would make them one of the least productive studios in existence...

    If having a few people skunk-working as and when availability permits counts as full-fledged development then I'm your fricking Aunty Sue.
  • TheYear1500TheYear1500 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    Erillion said:
    So Star Citizen started development a year before ED, and currently has no content at all.  You mean the Squadron 42 that no one has seen?  Not even game journalists.  You should really check out SC for some real information, they don't even have persistence in their game yet, no game mechanics, and current server pop is capped at 24.

    The next big update for SC?  Yep a cloths shop, hahaha     
    Development of E: D started in 2009.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite:_Dangerous

    "Starting in 2009, Elite: Dangerous was developed using Frontier Development's own in-house COBRA game development engine.[30] Frontier had been working on the game as a "skunk-works" background activity for some time prior to its Kickstarter launch,[31] with other projects being prioritised.[32]"


    "Having been unable to agree to a funding deal with a publisher for many years, the developer began its Kickstarter campaign in November 2012."

    That means the Kickstarter campaign for Star Citizen and Elite:Dangerous happened at around the same time. But the company for Star Citizen was founded in April 2012, so E:D had a 3 year headstart.

    ***************************************************************************************************

    "Squadron 42 that no one has seen".

    The Morrow Tour, October 2015.



    "Note even game journalists"

    Many articles on SQ42. E.g. this

    http://www.pcgamer.com/inside-squadron-42-star-citizens-ambitious-singleplayer-campaign/

    and this

    http://www.gamestar.de/videos/specials,20/star-citizen-squadron-42,86316.html

    **********************************************************************************************

    >>>>  current server pop is capped at 24 >>>>

    Current INSTANCE population is capped at 24.

    Here is the difference:



    ***********************************************************************************************

    >>>>The next big update for SC ? Yep a cloths shop. hahahaha>>>>

    The next big update is Alpha 2.4 with the main topic being persistence.

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/450458/star-citizen-alpha-2-4-patch-notes


    *************************************************************************************


    One can be a big Elite fan since 1984 and still post some facts about SC instead of propaganda.


    Have fun




    Your own quote states that game development started at kickstarter for ED.  You sure you linked the correct information?  Because you have yet to disprove anything.   Yet again you are just trying to twist the facts, we have linked CR stating (over and over again because you keep bring up misinformation) that at the time of the kickstarter they were in development for a year.

    https://www.themittani.com/features/exclusive-interview-star-citizens-chris-roberts

    "Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale."

    Why do you keep forgetting how you were proven wrong?

    So we have DB stating that development of ED started at the time of the kickstarter, and we have CR stating that SC started a year before their kickstarter.  So even you can see that SC has been in development for a year before ED.    

    The crappy tour of the Idris is the only thing anyone has seen, this does not disprove all the journalist stating that they didn't see anything of SQ42.


    You really should check your links before you post.  Unless proving your self wrong was your goal.   


  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,730
    I suggest you re-read what i posted above:

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Development of E: D started in 2009.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite:_Dangerous

    "Having been unable to agree to a funding deal with a publisher for many years, the developer began its Kickstarter campaign in November 2012."
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    "ED started at the time of the kickstarter" is NOT equal to "the E:D developer started a Kickstarter campaign". Maybe some day you understand the difference. The crowdfunding campaign was IN ADDITION to a LOT of in house funding from Frontier (a fact confirmed by Braben himself).



    >>>
    at the time of the kickstarter they were in development for a year.
    **snip**
    Why do you keep forgetting how you were proven wrong?
    >>>
    Because you conventiently leave out a lot of other quotes and verifyable facts (e.g. that CIG itself was founded in April 2012, 6 months (not 12) before the Kickstarter) and this topic was discussed ad nauseum in the Star Citizen sub-forum. Where nothing was proven wrong, especially not by you. No need to rehash the same discussion AGAIN in the E:D forum, when you find the same discussion about 10 times in the SC subforum (same discussion, same people, same arguments, same (non-)results ... deja vu).


    Have fun
  • TheYear1500TheYear1500 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    edited May 2016
    Erillion said:
    I suggest you re-read what i posted above:

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Development of E: D started in 2009.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite:_Dangerous

    "Having been unable to agree to a funding deal with a publisher for many years, the developer began its Kickstarter campaign in November 2012."
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    "ED started at the time of the kickstarter" is NOT equal to "the E:D developer started a Kickstarter campaign". Maybe some day you understand the difference. The crowdfunding campaign was IN ADDITION to a LOT of in house funding from Frontier (a fact confirmed by Braben himself).



    >>>
    at the time of the kickstarter they were in development for a year.
    **snip**
    Why do you keep forgetting how you were proven wrong?
    >>>
    Because you conventiently leave out a lot of other quotes and verifyable facts (e.g. that CIG itself was founded in April 2012, 6 months (not 12) before the Kickstarter) and this topic was discussed ad nauseum in the Star Citizen sub-forum. Where nothing was proven wrong, especially not by you. No need to rehash the same discussion AGAIN in the E:D forum, when you find the same discussion about 10 times in the SC subforum (same discussion, same people, same arguments, same (non-)results ... deja vu).


    Have fun
    So yet again you didn't both to read your own posts.  Perhaps you have a link to that fact?  But nope you don't have it, because Braben said something different, what he actually said was that ED development started during and after the kickstarter.  

    So since you seem incapable of reading your own links,  

    All you did was link the Wiki, did you bother to look at its source?  No?  Well perhaps you should, this is what it used to say 2009

    http://www.frontier.co.uk/our_technology/

    That's right it is just a link to the cobra engine, and does not have any reference to the start of ED.  So good job, you fail at reading.  

    So lets look at another, also in the wiki that you seem to ignore,

    http://http//www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/06/elite_dangerous_on_kickstarter/

    Oh look Braben states, that it was not worked on.   


      So lets look at a direct quote from Braben, something I have linked before, but it seems your short term memory problem has you forget.  

    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20351&page=11&p=455714#post455714

    "I have wanted to do a sequel for a long time, and there has been 'skunk-works' development, on and off for quite some time, but full on development is mostly since (and somewhat during) the Kickstarter campaign. So you are correct."

    How you fail to read your own links is just odd.  

    I have linked again the CEO's of the respective companies telling you when they started, if you want to just put your fingers in your ears and go "nah nah nah" that is up to you.  
    Why  you would rather make up your own "facts" and ignore the CEO of the company telling you when it started.  LOL ok, no wonder you are so confused.  

    We we have to rehash it over and over again because while I keep proving you wrong with actual facts and statements from the CEO's of the respective companies, you keep coming up with...well nothing.  
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,730
    >>>http://http//www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/06/elite_dangerous_on_kickstarter/

    Oh look Braben states, that it was not worked on.   >>>>

    Oh look, this is what Braben stated (from the same link you see above).
    "Braben also reveals that Frontier has tried to get the game up over the years, but has kept it on the back-burner where it “... has been worked upon by a small team as a ‘skunk-works’ activity in the background as availability permits” between paid gigs."

    IS NOT BEING WORKED ON (as you say) is not the same as HAS BEEN WORKED UPON BY A SMALL TEAM (as the article and ultimately Braben says). And we are speaking about the time before Kickstarter.


    >>>>>
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20351&page=11&p=455714#post455714

    "I have wanted to do a sequel for a long time, and there has been 'skunk-works' development, on and off for quite some time, but full on development is mostly since (and somewhat during) the Kickstarter campaign. So you are correct."
    >>>>>

    Funny how two people read the same text in two different ways. Yes, I am familiar with the E:D forums and the sources for E:D wikipedia, thank you very much. Here is what I read in this quoted thread: "....there has been 'skunk-works' development, on and off for quite some time, ..."   (and we are talking about the time BEFORE Kickstarter - meaning development has STARTED WELL BEFORE Kickstarter).

    May I remind you that our private discussion topic here is the START of development, NOT when the majority of development was done (we BOTH agree that the majority of development was done since the Kickstarter). 

    I predict we will rehash this again in the future ... and again ... and again .... (same discussion, same people, same arguments, same (non-)results ... deja vu).


    Actually the overall discussion topic of THIS thread is the "Engineers" update to E:D ... and its adds some interesting new aspects to E:D. My personal favorite are the Engineer NPCs that bring a new level of crafting into the game. And the overall persistent NPCs with faces. I hope everyone has downloaded it already and has started to enjoy this new E:D patch.


    Have fun

  • TheYear1500TheYear1500 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    Erillion said:
    >>>http://http//www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/06/elite_dangerous_on_kickstarter/

    Oh look Braben states, that it was not worked on.   >>>>

    Oh look, this is what Braben stated (from the same link you see above).
    "Braben also reveals that Frontier has tried to get the game up over the years, but has kept it on the back-burner where it “... has been worked upon by a small team as a ‘skunk-works’ activity in the background as availability permits” between paid gigs."

    IS NOT BEING WORKED ON (as you say) is not the same as HAS BEEN WORKED UPON BY A SMALL TEAM (as the article and ultimately Braben says). And we are speaking about the time before Kickstarter.


    >>>>>
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20351&page=11&p=455714#post455714

    "I have wanted to do a sequel for a long time, and there has been 'skunk-works' development, on and off for quite some time, but full on development is mostly since (and somewhat during) the Kickstarter campaign. So you are correct."
    >>>>>

    Funny how two people read the same text in two different ways. Yes, I am familiar with the E:D forums and the sources for E:D wikipedia, thank you very much. Here is what I read in this quoted thread: "....there has been 'skunk-works' development, on and off for quite some time, ..."   (and we are talking about the time BEFORE Kickstarter - meaning development has STARTED WELL BEFORE Kickstarter).

    May I remind you that our private discussion topic here is the START of development, NOT when the majority of development was done (we BOTH agree that the majority of development was done since the Kickstarter). 

    I predict we will rehash this again in the future ... and again ... and again .... (same discussion, same people, same arguments, same (non-)results ... deja vu).


    Actually the overall discussion topic of THIS thread is the "Engineers" update to E:D ... and its adds some interesting new aspects to E:D. My personal favorite are the Engineer NPCs that bring a new level of crafting into the game. And the overall persistent NPCs with faces. I hope everyone has downloaded it already and has started to enjoy this new E:D patch.


    Have fun

    So it was on the back burner and they didn't start it.  So how hard is that for you to understand?  

    Got to love your goal post moving.  So again, actual development for ED started at the time of the kickstarter, as stated by the CEO. Something again all you have linked has proved that to be true. While Star Citizen started a year before ED as stated by its CEO.  

    Because normal people don't think of occasional concepts idea and brain storming, with out actual coding, to be development.

    Oh well, I am sure ED started in 1888 and SC started 6 months ago when 2017 rolls around and more excuses are needed for SC.

    Like you said back to ED 2.1 and a game that makes actual progress. 

     



  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,730

    Like you said back to ED 2.1 and a game that makes actual progress. 
    Yep - Back to E:D 2.1 "Engineers".

    And - if Brabens hints prove true - an alien related update around X-Mas. 

    Thargoid Invasion perhaps ?  Or at least the first alien fighting ships/scouts appearing (unless you count the technological "plague" from the UAs as the opening shots of the war).

    http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Unknown_Artefact


    Have fun

  • donger56donger56 Member RarePosts: 443
    Over 5 years in Alpha, can't wait to see how long the beta drags on for. I can't believe people are still throwing money into this black hole of endless excuses. Remember back in 2012 when they said much of the work on this game was already done so it would be totally possible to make that 2014 release date ? 
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,730
    donger56 said:
    Over 5 years in Alpha, can't wait to see how long the beta drags on for. I can't believe people are still throwing money into this black hole of endless excuses. Remember back in 2012 when they said much of the work on this game was already done so it would be totally possible to make that 2014 release date ? 
    Elite Dangerous - Alpha and Beta for the main game has finished years ago. Beta for "Engineers" update has finished and its already on live server.

    Could it be that in your anti-SC zealotry you have sent a posting for the SC subforum to the E:D subforum ;-)   ?


    Have fun
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