"Windows and Xbox, come together as one." The new Era of Gaming

maskedweasel · May 2016

https://bgr.com/2016/05/25/xbox-one-4k-console-rumors/

Some quotes from the article (albeit these are still considered rumors, but lets not pretend like we didn't see it coming)

"According to Kotaku’s sources, the upgraded Xbox carries the codename Scorpio, and will have a more powerful GPU than the current model. Sources also say that the new console will be able to support the Oculus Rift, which is why Microsoft is currently working to partner with Oculus in the months leading up to launch."

"Together, these two consoles make up a new strategy that sources are calling “Project Helix.” This strategy will see the companies two major platforms, Windows and Xbox, come together as one. Developer sources tell Kotaku that Microsoft is going to require games to be made available for both platforms in the future."

"Finally, it appears that both of these consoles are part of a new iterative approach to console releases that will continue throughout the hardware generation. Sources say that Microsoft will continue to release new hardware on a more consistent basis than ever before, while keeping its games compatible with as much of the available hardware as it possibly can at once.

We’ll likely hear more about these plans when Microsoft takes the stage at E3 2016 on Monday, June 13th at 9:30 a.m. PDT"

Arglebargle · May 2016

A scourge on the gaming industry! And sloppy to boot.

SEANMCAD · May 2016

So about a year agao I had said that Xbox and Sony will have to either come out with a new console within a year or so or get out of the business because of...wait for it.....VR.

Clearly I was labeled a crazy man

H0urg1ass · May 2016

maskedweasel said:

"... Developer sources tell Kotaku that Microsoft is going to require games to be made available for both platforms in the future."

This is completely not cool. What this means is that you can kiss standard PC controls goodbye. Might as well buy an Xbox controller for your PC, because every 1st and 3rd person game is going to be a shitty port.

Microsoft is trying to prop up the shitty sales figures of their Xbone by forcing developers that make games on Windows to make them compatible with Xbone.

maskedweasel said:

"Finally, it appears that both of these consoles are part of a new iterative approach to console releases that will continue throughout the hardware generation. Sources say that Microsoft will continue to release new hardware on a more consistent basis than ever before, while keeping its games compatible with as much of the available hardware as it possibly can at once.

Read: Why sell our players one set of hardware that's good for several years? Now we can make sure that newer games won't play on the older hardware and force people to keep upgrading every few months.

I can't see any of this making it to the light of day without a huge backlash of gamers standing off against Microsoft. A few months ago I thought Gabe Newell was a moron for claiming that most gamers would be moving to Linux in the future. I guess Gabe sees further into the future than I do.

maskedweasel · May 2016

The PS 4 in it's current iteration will run VR with their PS VR set.. the new console has better performance, storage and 4K.

The XB One was always a little underpowered, but true to form Xbox always releases new consoles. While the new one will support the Rift -- it's generally not much of a stretch seeing as how the XB1 and PC are shifting into the same platform.

I could see Microsoft eventually opening up hardware support for other VR sets -- but I don't see OR doing well on the XB1 any more than it is currently doing on the PC (not well I'm afraid).

More importantly -- making the new consoles somewhat on par with eachother (XB1 and PS4 specs) while also scaling them for PC games -- yet still keeping them somewhat backwards compatible with the XB1 1st gen seems like an almost impossible task.

SEANMCAD · May 2016

H0urg1ass said:

maskedweasel said:

"... Developer sources tell Kotaku that Microsoft is going to require games to be made available for both platforms in the future."

This is completely not cool. What this means is that you can kiss standard PC controls goodbye. Might as well buy an Xbox controller for your PC, because every 1st and 3rd person game is going to be a shitty port.

Microsoft is trying to prop up the shitty sales figures of their Xbone by forcing developers that make games on Windows to make them compatible with Xbone.

I have seen this coming for a awhile and I usually get attacked for even suggesting that it might happen.

Thing is the reverse is not true. You can make a game for Windows not work for Console (aka not use UWP) which I suspect a lot of developer will be doing. HOWEVER, the test (I think) the if the hardware on an xbox can keep up then no harm done. OR if enough developers are just not interested in UWP (which I think will be more the case) then no harm done.

hunker down now because I am about to get full frontal attacked by fanboys..you are too

maskedweasel · May 2016

H0urg1ass said:

maskedweasel said:

"... Developer sources tell Kotaku that Microsoft is going to require games to be made available for both platforms in the future."

This is completely not cool. What this means is that you can kiss standard PC controls goodbye. Might as well buy an Xbox controller for your PC, because every 1st and 3rd person game is going to be a shitty port.

Microsoft is trying to prop up the shitty sales figures of their Xbone by forcing developers that make games on Windows to make them compatible with Xbone.

maskedweasel said:

"Finally, it appears that both of these consoles are part of a new iterative approach to console releases that will continue throughout the hardware generation. Sources say that Microsoft will continue to release new hardware on a more consistent basis than ever before, while keeping its games compatible with as much of the available hardware as it possibly can at once.

Read: Why sell our players one set of hardware that's good for several years? Now we can make sure that newer games won't play on the older hardware and force people to keep upgrading every few months.

I can't see any of this making it to the light of day without a huge backlash of gamers standing off against Microsoft. A few months ago I thought Gabe Newell was a moron for claiming that most gamers would be moving to Linux in the future. I guess Gabe sees further into the future than I do.

There is no way you'll see a mass exodus to Linux. There also is no reason why you can't:

1. Use a mouse and keyboard on the XB1
2. Play games on PC that weren't made ALSO for XB1
3. Work it to where all XB games are compatible with PC but only games wanting to release "multiplatform" titles will be available from PC to Console.
4. Eventually make XB1 powerful enough to essentially BE a PC utilizing the windows store or alternative app stores on XB1 to play PC games that are currently native windows games.

Nanfoodle · May 2016

Blah, just bought an XBox One in Dec. I always do this. I end up buying a console and then its like I forget I can upgrade my PC instead of chucking an whole console out the window.

SEANMCAD · May 2016

maskedweasel said:

H0urg1ass said:

maskedweasel said:

"... Developer sources tell Kotaku that Microsoft is going to require games to be made available for both platforms in the future."

This is completely not cool. What this means is that you can kiss standard PC controls goodbye. Might as well buy an Xbox controller for your PC, because every 1st and 3rd person game is going to be a shitty port.

Microsoft is trying to prop up the shitty sales figures of their Xbone by forcing developers that make games on Windows to make them compatible with Xbone.

maskedweasel said:

"Finally, it appears that both of these consoles are part of a new iterative approach to console releases that will continue throughout the hardware generation. Sources say that Microsoft will continue to release new hardware on a more consistent basis than ever before, while keeping its games compatible with as much of the available hardware as it possibly can at once.

Read: Why sell our players one set of hardware that's good for several years? Now we can make sure that newer games won't play on the older hardware and force people to keep upgrading every few months.

I can't see any of this making it to the light of day without a huge backlash of gamers standing off against Microsoft. A few months ago I thought Gabe Newell was a moron for claiming that most gamers would be moving to Linux in the future. I guess Gabe sees further into the future than I do.

There is no way you'll see a mass exodus to Linux. There also is no reason why you can't:

1. Use a mouse and keyboard on the XB1
2. Play games on PC that weren't made ALSO for XB1
3. Work it to where all XB games are compatible with PC but only games wanting to release "multiplatform" titles will be available from PC to Console.
4. Eventually make XB1 powerful enough to essentially BE a PC utilizing the windows store or alternative app stores on XB1 to play PC games that are currently native windows games.

why in the love of god would one want to use a mouse and keyboard on an XB1, now or ever regardless of how powerful they make it. what level of product loyality insanity would think that is even a remotely good a idea.

'yeah hunny I am in here playing twice for internet access and typing on a keyboard sitting here on the coffee table'

H0urg1ass · May 2016

maskedweasel said:

There is no way you'll see a mass exodus to Linux. There also is no reason why you can't:

1. Use a mouse and keyboard on the XB1
2. Play games on PC that weren't made ALSO for XB1
3. Work it to where all XB games are compatible with PC but only games wanting to release "multiplatform" titles will be available from PC to Console.
4. Eventually make XB1 powerful enough to essentially BE a PC utilizing the windows store or alternative app stores on XB1 to play PC games that are currently native windows games.

You can't use a mouse and keyboard on an Xbone unless they've rewritten the code for it in the past 90 days. The last time someone got a reply back from MS on this matter was late February in a Tweet.
That's literally the definition of cross compatibility. I don't care that you can, I care how. I don't want every PC game from 1st and 3rd person view to be designed around a controller first.
Except that's not what the article says... it says that MS is going to demand cross platform development for people developing games for Windows.
What's the point then? Might was well buy a PC. The point of buying a console is to purchase a single platform that will play every game made for it and it will be good for several years. Not only that, but the cost is subsidized by the fact that people will need to buy an online subscription and games for it.

EDIT: 90 Days

maskedweasel · May 2016

SEANMCAD said:

why in the love of god would one want to use a mouse and keyboard on an XB1, now or ever regardless of how powerful they make it. what level of product loyality insanity would think that is even a remotely good a idea.

'yeah hunny I am in here playing twice for internet access and typing on a keyboard sitting here on the coffee table'

I currently use a M&K on an XB1. I don't understand the problem here. This was useful when transitioning from playing PC shooters to XB1 shooters -- most notably those that weren't cross platform.

I've also used hardware to use M&K on PS4 for the same reason. People that play shooters often across many platforms could easily understand the reasons to utilize a single controller.

Secondly -- many times I've used a controller on PC... I don't see why there is any difference. I just downloaded forza 6 on PC, it plays well with a controller. Certain games call for certain inputs IMO

SEANMCAD · May 2016

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

why in the love of god would one want to use a mouse and keyboard on an XB1, now or ever regardless of how powerful they make it. what level of product loyality insanity would think that is even a remotely good a idea.

'yeah hunny I am in here playing twice for internet access and typing on a keyboard sitting here on the coffee table'

I currently use a M&K on an XB1. I don't understand the problem here. This was useful when transitioning from playing PC shooters to XB1 shooters -- most notably those that weren't cross platform.

I've also used hardware to use M&K on PS4 for the same reason. People that play shooters often across many platforms could easily understand the reasons to utilize a single controller.

Secondly -- many times I've used a controller on PC... I don't see why there is any difference. I just downloaded forza 6 on PC, it plays well with a controller. Certain games call for certain inputs IMO

yeah that makes zero sense to me but congratulations I suspose welcome to the PC uninverse

H0urg1ass · May 2016

You might be using a mouse and keyboard on an Xbone and a PS4, but you aren't using a mouse and keyboard on them. They have to be passed through an emulator first and the mouse feels absolutely nothing whatsoever like a mouse on a PC.

I know, I've used the emulator my sons friend bought on both systems. It basically takes analog controls and attempts to digitize them. So the scrolling rate is shit and you have to keep centering the mouse like you would a thumbstick. It was awkward as hell.

someforumguy · May 2016

H0urg1ass said:

maskedweasel said:

"... Developer sources tell Kotaku that Microsoft is going to require games to be made available for both platforms in the future."

This is completely not cool. What this means is that you can kiss standard PC controls goodbye. Might as well buy an Xbox controller for your PC, because every 1st and 3rd person game is going to be a shitty port.

I don't see the same problem here. Microsoft can only demand that for games released for XBOX. Not for games released for PC. I mean, how would they be able to do that? UWP is not really popular with the developers (which is an understatement ofc).
As for ports from console to XBOX, many of them are already mostly shitty to begin with if you look at their UI and KB&mouse controls.

SEANMCAD · May 2016

someforumguy said:

H0urg1ass said:

maskedweasel said:

"... Developer sources tell Kotaku that Microsoft is going to require games to be made available for both platforms in the future."

This is completely not cool. What this means is that you can kiss standard PC controls goodbye. Might as well buy an Xbox controller for your PC, because every 1st and 3rd person game is going to be a shitty port.

I don't see the same problem here. Microsoft can only demand that for games released for XBOX. Not for games released for PC. I mean, how would they be able to do that? UWP is not really popular with the developers (which is an understatement ofc).
As for ports from console to XBOX, many of them are already mostly shitty to begin with if you look at their UI and KB&mouse controls.

its a huge problem of business philosophy and attitude toward PC gamers.
However in net implementation its irrelevant for reasons you have just mentioned.

That is kind of an agreement on my part

maskedweasel · May 2016

H0urg1ass said:

maskedweasel said:

There is no way you'll see a mass exodus to Linux. There also is no reason why you can't:

1. Use a mouse and keyboard on the XB1
2. Play games on PC that weren't made ALSO for XB1
3. Work it to where all XB games are compatible with PC but only games wanting to release "multiplatform" titles will be available from PC to Console.
4. Eventually make XB1 powerful enough to essentially BE a PC utilizing the windows store or alternative app stores on XB1 to play PC games that are currently native windows games.

You can't use a mouse and keyboard on an Xbone unless they've rewritten the code for it in the past 90 days. The last time someone got a reply back from MS on this matter was late February in a Tweet.
That's literally the definition of cross compatibility. I don't care that you can, I care how. I don't want every PC game from 1st and 3rd person view to be designed around a controller first.
Except that's not what the article says... it says that MS is going to demand cross platform development for people developing games for Windows.
What's the point then? Might was well buy a PC. The point of buying a console is to purchase a single platform that will play every game made for it and it will be good for several years. Not only that, but the cost is subsidized by the fact that people will need to buy an online subscription and games for it.
EDIT: 90 Days

1) They make hardware you can use to achieve M&K support on XB1 currently. I've use XIM4 but also CronusMax to do it across all consoles. That being said.. we're talking about next generation consoles here.

3 ) I think this is a little out of context. Microsoft has already explained that for PC you don't need to build a game in UWP for it to be a PC game. For XB1 you do. This is why I mentioned that its going to be
Mobile -> XB1 -> PC. PC will still have applications (at least in the interim) that will only be able to be PC applications, including the majority of PC titles.

4) The point is, simply, that consoles just -- work. Thats the point of doing this. Streamlining the process while building an ecosystem that will compete across all platforms in the future. The Xbox is a multi-use entertainment device streamlined to do exactly what you want, how you expect. The PC for many is a mixed bag of performance inconsistencies. Bringing a PC to the console space is a smart move.

On a side note, the online subscriptions for XBL use for PC isn't that bad either, considering you get several games per month. XBL as a service is a smart business plan, and this wouldn't change ANYTHING in comparison to PS4. You don't even NEED XBL to play many games currently, even some with online interactions don't require it.

SEANMCAD · May 2016

H0urg1ass said:

You might be using a mouse and keyboard on an Xbone and a PS4, but you aren't using a mouse and keyboard on them. They have to be passed through an emulator first and the mouse feels absolutely nothing whatsoever like a mouse on a PC.

I know, I've used the emulator my sons friend bought on both systems. It basically takes analog controls and attempts to digitize them. So the scrolling rate is shit and you have to keep centering the mouse like you would a thumbstick. It was awkward as hell.

and for the life of me I can not imagine its ergonomically comfortable. A computer chair is designed for upright position etc.

maskedweasel · May 2016

H0urg1ass said:

You might be using a mouse and keyboard on an Xbone and a PS4, but you aren't using a mouse and keyboard on them. They have to be passed through an emulator first and the mouse feels absolutely nothing whatsoever like a mouse on a PC.

I know, I've used the emulator my sons friend bought on both systems. It basically takes analog controls and attempts to digitize them. So the scrolling rate is shit and you have to keep centering the mouse like you would a thumbstick. It was awkward as hell.

Not sure which one he's using but after using both, XIM4 has plenty of scripts you can use to combat a lot of issues related to scrolling speeds, etc. They optimize these depending on the games you use. Cronus uses them too, the only problem I had with Cronus is that the one I got disconnects my controllers randomly.

The point being, in the future, that likely won't be necessary -- to utilize a hardware emulator. The article isn't really focusing current gen, but future gen consoles.

[Deleted User] · May 2016

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Dahkoht · May 2016

My only problem with consoles is developers limiting what a game can do so a console can do it.

Don't design the control scheme for 5 buttons , nor not take advantage of 32GB of RAM and so on.

SEANMCAD · May 2016

Dahkoht said:

My only problem with consoles is developers limiting what a game can do so a console can do it.

Don't design the control scheme for 5 buttons , nor not take advantage of 32GB of RAM and so on.

same boat. gaming overall would currently be a lot more amazing and advanced if the biggys would stop focusing on narrow set of game play design and low specs. in my view

Tasslehoff35 · May 2016

SEANMCAD said:

someforumguy said:

H0urg1ass said:

maskedweasel said:

"... Developer sources tell Kotaku that Microsoft is going to require games to be made available for both platforms in the future."

This is completely not cool. What this means is that you can kiss standard PC controls goodbye. Might as well buy an Xbox controller for your PC, because every 1st and 3rd person game is going to be a shitty port.

I don't see the same problem here. Microsoft can only demand that for games released for XBOX. Not for games released for PC. I mean, how would they be able to do that? UWP is not really popular with the developers (which is an understatement ofc).
As for ports from console to XBOX, many of them are already mostly shitty to begin with if you look at their UI and KB&mouse controls.

its a huge problem of business philosophy and attitude toward PC gamers.
However in net implementation its irrelevant for reasons you have just mentioned.

That is kind of an agreement on my part

Who's business philosophy? Yours? Pretty sure we have discussed those like you who want to try and tell multi billion dollar companies how to run or explain their business philosophy are probably more qualified to be a Walmart greeter . But I am glad you found a thread to hijack and try to turn into your own crusade...couldn't get by one day without complaining about Microsoft could you.

maskedweasel · May 2016

Dahkoht said:

My only problem with consoles is developers limiting what a game can do so a console can do it.

Don't design the control scheme for 5 buttons , nor not take advantage of 32GB of RAM and so on.

I think thats a little misleading. Take GW2 for example, a complete and total PC game without consoles in mind. It utilizes maybe, 12 - 16 skills depending on character? I've successfully mapped them to a controller before, quite easily, and the movement in 3rd person always feels more fluid and rewarding with a controller.

The control scheme is not the best argument.

I do believe your first point, limiting a game so a console can do it, that is a better argument. That is also why expanding the console base will be quite different. If Microsoft is building a piece of hardware that runs with the Rifts minimum specs, you're looking at a console far more powerful than what the majority of PC gamers currently have.

SEANMCAD · May 2016

Tasslehoff35 said:

SEANMCAD said:

someforumguy said:

H0urg1ass said:

maskedweasel said:

"... Developer sources tell Kotaku that Microsoft is going to require games to be made available for both platforms in the future."

This is completely not cool. What this means is that you can kiss standard PC controls goodbye. Might as well buy an Xbox controller for your PC, because every 1st and 3rd person game is going to be a shitty port.

I don't see the same problem here. Microsoft can only demand that for games released for XBOX. Not for games released for PC. I mean, how would they be able to do that? UWP is not really popular with the developers (which is an understatement ofc).
As for ports from console to XBOX, many of them are already mostly shitty to begin with if you look at their UI and KB&mouse controls.

its a huge problem of business philosophy and attitude toward PC gamers.
However in net implementation its irrelevant for reasons you have just mentioned.

That is kind of an agreement on my part

Who's business philosophy? Yours? Pretty we have discussed those like you who want to try and tell multi billion dollar companies how to run or explain their business philosophy are probably more qualified to be a Walmart greeter . But I am glad you found a thread to hijack and try to turn into your own crusade...couldn't get by one day without complaining about Microsoft could you.

that doesnt make sense.

I am more qualified to be a walmart greeter BECAUSE I am making business suggestions to multi-billion dollar company that sells SharePoint or that Walmart greeter is a harder job?

sorry not following you but i didnt sleep much last night

Tasslehoff35 · May 2016

SEANMCAD said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

SEANMCAD said:

someforumguy said:

H0urg1ass said:

maskedweasel said:

"... Developer sources tell Kotaku that Microsoft is going to require games to be made available for both platforms in the future."

This is completely not cool. What this means is that you can kiss standard PC controls goodbye. Might as well buy an Xbox controller for your PC, because every 1st and 3rd person game is going to be a shitty port.

I don't see the same problem here. Microsoft can only demand that for games released for XBOX. Not for games released for PC. I mean, how would they be able to do that? UWP is not really popular with the developers (which is an understatement ofc).
As for ports from console to XBOX, many of them are already mostly shitty to begin with if you look at their UI and KB&mouse controls.

its a huge problem of business philosophy and attitude toward PC gamers.
However in net implementation its irrelevant for reasons you have just mentioned.

That is kind of an agreement on my part

Who's business philosophy? Yours? Pretty we have discussed those like you who want to try and tell multi billion dollar companies how to run or explain their business philosophy are probably more qualified to be a Walmart greeter . But I am glad you found a thread to hijack and try to turn into your own crusade...couldn't get by one day without complaining about Microsoft could you.

that doesnt make sense.

I am more qualified to be a walmart greeter BECAUSE I am making business suggestions to multi-billion dollar company that sells SharePoint or that Walmart greeter is a harder job?

sorry not following you but i didnt sleep much last night

No you are more qualified to be a Walmart greeter based on your post history you have no knowledge or expertise on how to run a business or anything to do with IT or video games...

better hurry and reply I made a comment to one of Vaross protected children he is out to get me now...ill be banned soon.

[Deleted User] · May 2016

The user and all related content has been deleted.

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