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All of this and the Kitchen Sink?

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  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,785
    I dunno guys, the laundry list of features and the paltry $1 million raised doesn't seem like a recipe for success. I always feel that if these teams have something to show, they would show it. I just can't picture a currently functioning game based on what I've seen. I can read lots of awesome ideas and goals, but I they seem a bit beyond the scope of the amount being asked.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Adjuvant1 said:
    Adjuvant1 said:
    December 2014:


    March 2015:


    July 2015:


    Now:


    So if I understood correctly, the game engine is Unreal, but they're calling their existing / projected AI systems and dynamic features "game engine" too.

    This is flippin hilarious. What will be next? RPG Maker MV?

    People are paying to watch, in real time, the musings and failings of a group of people with little insight and forethought, even into the free software they use. What a cluster%$^#.

    edit: Anyone have any kind of statistics of the number of successful products which swapped up engines halfway through?
    I think they haven't swapped halfway though, they have apparently barely begun developing the game. I'm not sure any of the systems they've shown are functional; they could just be mock-up. The only game I can recall that has changed engine during development would be the Repopulation https://www.therepopulation.com/index.php/news/275 (from Hero Engine to Unreal).
    But the estimated delivery date is 1.5 years. The understanding is that the "top guy" invested (x amount of) money on his own, they have alot done, and they only needed the kickstarter to "bring it home". If you're correct, and they've "barely just begun", they're telling people this mmo game will be made faster and cheaper than professionals Bethesda published rpg Skyrim.

    edit:.. by a factor somewhere in double digits, having just refreshed my memory of the TES V development.
    Afaik they've never shipped a MMO game so I doubt they're able to accurately estimate the time it takes to create one. 2 months ago the founder wrote: "Currently Soulbound Studios has only two programmers - one of which (myself) is quite busy aside from just programming." One of the programmers currently working on CoE (according to his LinkedIn page) has worked on four titles in the past: 2D platform games and 3D games (up to 4 players). No previous experience (if the LinkedIn page is accurate) in MMO games. The founder worked at Microsoft in 2015 (still if LinkedIn page is accurate) and sometime in 2015 he would have started working full-time on CoE. From what I've understood, they tried to make a proof-of-concept with CryEngine until late summer 2015, but it was taking too much time so they later switched to Unreal. The rest of the team has been hired recently. The founder apparently has been working on the Soulbound "engine" for many years.

    So my understanding is that the work on the current prototype we see for Kickstarter (on Unreal Engine) would be pretty recent and it would apparently have started around September 2015 or later.

    I doubt that the systems shown on the screenshots (crafting, inventory, agreement, trading, family, etc.) have already been developed.
    The more background info I read regarding "Soulborn Studios", the more I'm inclined to believe that the development of this game is going to be... a rocky road.

    One of the most ambitious sets of design documents in recent MMO history, coupled with a tiny budget and a tiny team with (apparently) limited MMO experience. A team that's just recently changed their client-side game engine for the third time...
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Adjuvant1 said:
    The more background info I read regarding "Soulborn Studios", the more I'm inclined to believe that the development of this game is going to be... a rocky road.

    One of the most ambitious sets of design documents in recent MMO history, coupled with a tiny budget and a tiny team with (apparently) limited MMO experience. A team that's just recently changed their client-side game engine for the third time...
    It's not been successfully done yet to my knowledge, so I see what you are saying. The question is whether or not this is something that cannot be done these days by a small team because of mistakes made by previous efforts. If there is no new mode of attack or a breakthrough of some sort working in their favor then it feels like unconscious incompetence. I'm someone who wants to see this game launch and be a success, but Magic is something that happens in the game, not in the development.

    So I hope that isn't the case and that Jeromy Walsh has some sort of realistic table of work that isn't predicated on Star Citizen funding or gaining an army of workers. If it's either of those then yeah, perma-death.
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Rusque said:
    I dunno guys, the laundry list of features and the paltry $1 million raised doesn't seem like a recipe for success. I always feel that if these teams have something to show, they would show it. I just can't picture a currently functioning game based on what I've seen. I can read lots of awesome ideas and goals, but I they seem a bit beyond the scope of the amount being asked.
    I imagine you have to stand up a bit of a facade in this situation. You have to make your working model seem to be a whole world rather than a small example so that people can envision it as being complete. I think the problem comes when it continues to be a facade when others perceive it to be a whole world.
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • FranciscourantFranciscourant Member UncommonPosts: 356
    Adjuvant1 said:
    Adjuvant1 said:
    December 2014:


    March 2015:


    July 2015:


    Now:


    So if I understood correctly, the game engine is Unreal, but they're calling their existing / projected AI systems and dynamic features "game engine" too.

    This is flippin hilarious. What will be next? RPG Maker MV?

    People are paying to watch, in real time, the musings and failings of a group of people with little insight and forethought, even into the free software they use. What a cluster%$^#.

    edit: Anyone have any kind of statistics of the number of successful products which swapped up engines halfway through?
    I think they haven't swapped halfway though, they have apparently barely begun developing the game. I'm not sure any of the systems they've shown are functional; they could just be mock-up. The only game I can recall that has changed engine during development would be the Repopulation https://www.therepopulation.com/index.php/news/275 (from Hero Engine to Unreal).
    But the estimated delivery date is 1.5 years. The understanding is that the "top guy" invested (x amount of) money on his own, they have alot done, and they only needed the kickstarter to "bring it home". If you're correct, and they've "barely just begun", they're telling people this mmo game will be made faster and cheaper than professionals Bethesda published rpg Skyrim.

    edit:.. by a factor somewhere in double digits, having just refreshed my memory of the TES V development.
    Afaik they've never shipped a MMO game so I doubt they're able to accurately estimate the time it takes to create one. 2 months ago the founder wrote: "Currently Soulbound Studios has only two programmers - one of which (myself) is quite busy aside from just programming." One of the programmers currently working on CoE (according to his LinkedIn page) has worked on four titles in the past: 2D platform games and 3D games (up to 4 players). No previous experience (if the LinkedIn page is accurate) in MMO games. The founder worked at Microsoft in 2015 (still if LinkedIn page is accurate) and sometime in 2015 he would have started working full-time on CoE. From what I've understood, they tried to make a proof-of-concept with CryEngine until late summer 2015, but it was taking too much time so they later switched to Unreal. The rest of the team has been hired recently. The founder apparently has been working on the Soulbound "engine" for many years.

    So my understanding is that the work on the current prototype we see for Kickstarter (on Unreal Engine) would be pretty recent and it would apparently have started around September 2015 or later.

    I doubt that the systems shown on the screenshots (crafting, inventory, agreement, trading, family, etc.) have already been developed.
    The more background info I read regarding "Soulborn Studios", the more I'm inclined to believe that the development of this game is going to be... a rocky road.

    One of the most ambitious sets of design documents in recent MMO history, coupled with a tiny budget and a tiny team with (apparently) limited MMO experience. A team that's just recently changed their client-side game engine for the third time...
    The first game engine they used for the proof-of-concept was CryEngine, however they mentioned that they may change engine for the real game, which they did (Unreal). The two other names (Proteus and Soulbound) are actually the same thing, which is the AI / dynamic systems and server things. Basically they only changed game engine once afaik, from Cry to Unreal, and I think it's not rare that i happens for the creation of MMOs, especially when it's so early in development.

    I agree that the team and budget are small, however small studios can still grow and get more funding, and hire quality + experienced producer. We will see.

    My issue is more about the way they present the progress (in my opinion, it seems to be set up to make us believe the game is farther in development than it is in reality). I could be wrong however and they're genuinely trying to be as transparent as they can. Then again we'll see in the near future I guess. 
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Adjuvant1 said:
    Adjuvant1 said:
    December 2014:


    March 2015:


    July 2015:


    Now:


    So if I understood correctly, the game engine is Unreal, but they're calling their existing / projected AI systems and dynamic features "game engine" too.

    This is flippin hilarious. What will be next? RPG Maker MV?

    People are paying to watch, in real time, the musings and failings of a group of people with little insight and forethought, even into the free software they use. What a cluster%$^#.

    edit: Anyone have any kind of statistics of the number of successful products which swapped up engines halfway through?
    I think they haven't swapped halfway though, they have apparently barely begun developing the game. I'm not sure any of the systems they've shown are functional; they could just be mock-up. The only game I can recall that has changed engine during development would be the Repopulation https://www.therepopulation.com/index.php/news/275 (from Hero Engine to Unreal).
    But the estimated delivery date is 1.5 years. The understanding is that the "top guy" invested (x amount of) money on his own, they have alot done, and they only needed the kickstarter to "bring it home". If you're correct, and they've "barely just begun", they're telling people this mmo game will be made faster and cheaper than professionals Bethesda published rpg Skyrim.

    edit:.. by a factor somewhere in double digits, having just refreshed my memory of the TES V development.
    Afaik they've never shipped a MMO game so I doubt they're able to accurately estimate the time it takes to create one. 2 months ago the founder wrote: "Currently Soulbound Studios has only two programmers - one of which (myself) is quite busy aside from just programming." One of the programmers currently working on CoE (according to his LinkedIn page) has worked on four titles in the past: 2D platform games and 3D games (up to 4 players). No previous experience (if the LinkedIn page is accurate) in MMO games. The founder worked at Microsoft in 2015 (still if LinkedIn page is accurate) and sometime in 2015 he would have started working full-time on CoE. From what I've understood, they tried to make a proof-of-concept with CryEngine until late summer 2015, but it was taking too much time so they later switched to Unreal. The rest of the team has been hired recently. The founder apparently has been working on the Soulbound "engine" for many years.

    So my understanding is that the work on the current prototype we see for Kickstarter (on Unreal Engine) would be pretty recent and it would apparently have started around September 2015 or later.

    I doubt that the systems shown on the screenshots (crafting, inventory, agreement, trading, family, etc.) have already been developed.
    The more background info I read regarding "Soulborn Studios", the more I'm inclined to believe that the development of this game is going to be... a rocky road.

    One of the most ambitious sets of design documents in recent MMO history, coupled with a tiny budget and a tiny team with (apparently) limited MMO experience. A team that's just recently changed their client-side game engine for the third time...
    The first game engine they used for the proof-of-concept was CryEngine, however they mentioned that they may change engine for the real game, which they did (Unreal). The two other names (Proteus and Soulbound) are actually the same thing, which is the AI / dynamic systems and server things. Basically they only changed game engine once afaik, from Cry to Unreal, and I think it's not rare that i happens for the creation of MMOs, especially when it's so early in development.

    I agree that the team and budget are small, however small studios can still grow and get more funding, and hire quality + experienced producer. We will see.

    My issue is more about the way they present the progress (in my opinion, it seems to be set up to make us believe the game is farther in development than it is in reality). I could be wrong however and they're genuinely trying to be as transparent as they can. Then again we'll see in the near future I guess. 
    Well, either:
    • the game development has just started 
    OR
    • development is already well down the road.

    In the first instance, the engine change is largely irrelevant. In the second instance, the engine change would be very significant.

    But they're estimating completion in 1.5 years, so either they intend to break all existing MMO development speed records, or something is not quite on the level here...
  • FranciscourantFranciscourant Member UncommonPosts: 356
    Adjuvant1 said:
    Adjuvant1 said:
    December 2014:


    March 2015:


    July 2015:


    Now:


    So if I understood correctly, the game engine is Unreal, but they're calling their existing / projected AI systems and dynamic features "game engine" too.

    This is flippin hilarious. What will be next? RPG Maker MV?

    People are paying to watch, in real time, the musings and failings of a group of people with little insight and forethought, even into the free software they use. What a cluster%$^#.

    edit: Anyone have any kind of statistics of the number of successful products which swapped up engines halfway through?
    I think they haven't swapped halfway though, they have apparently barely begun developing the game. I'm not sure any of the systems they've shown are functional; they could just be mock-up. The only game I can recall that has changed engine during development would be the Repopulation https://www.therepopulation.com/index.php/news/275 (from Hero Engine to Unreal).
    But the estimated delivery date is 1.5 years. The understanding is that the "top guy" invested (x amount of) money on his own, they have alot done, and they only needed the kickstarter to "bring it home". If you're correct, and they've "barely just begun", they're telling people this mmo game will be made faster and cheaper than professionals Bethesda published rpg Skyrim.

    edit:.. by a factor somewhere in double digits, having just refreshed my memory of the TES V development.
    Afaik they've never shipped a MMO game so I doubt they're able to accurately estimate the time it takes to create one. 2 months ago the founder wrote: "Currently Soulbound Studios has only two programmers - one of which (myself) is quite busy aside from just programming." One of the programmers currently working on CoE (according to his LinkedIn page) has worked on four titles in the past: 2D platform games and 3D games (up to 4 players). No previous experience (if the LinkedIn page is accurate) in MMO games. The founder worked at Microsoft in 2015 (still if LinkedIn page is accurate) and sometime in 2015 he would have started working full-time on CoE. From what I've understood, they tried to make a proof-of-concept with CryEngine until late summer 2015, but it was taking too much time so they later switched to Unreal. The rest of the team has been hired recently. The founder apparently has been working on the Soulbound "engine" for many years.

    So my understanding is that the work on the current prototype we see for Kickstarter (on Unreal Engine) would be pretty recent and it would apparently have started around September 2015 or later.

    I doubt that the systems shown on the screenshots (crafting, inventory, agreement, trading, family, etc.) have already been developed.
    The more background info I read regarding "Soulborn Studios", the more I'm inclined to believe that the development of this game is going to be... a rocky road.

    One of the most ambitious sets of design documents in recent MMO history, coupled with a tiny budget and a tiny team with (apparently) limited MMO experience. A team that's just recently changed their client-side game engine for the third time...
    The first game engine they used for the proof-of-concept was CryEngine, however they mentioned that they may change engine for the real game, which they did (Unreal). The two other names (Proteus and Soulbound) are actually the same thing, which is the AI / dynamic systems and server things. Basically they only changed game engine once afaik, from Cry to Unreal, and I think it's not rare that i happens for the creation of MMOs, especially when it's so early in development.

    I agree that the team and budget are small, however small studios can still grow and get more funding, and hire quality + experienced producer. We will see.

    My issue is more about the way they present the progress (in my opinion, it seems to be set up to make us believe the game is farther in development than it is in reality). I could be wrong however and they're genuinely trying to be as transparent as they can. Then again we'll see in the near future I guess. 
    Well, either:
    • the game development has just started 
    OR
    • development is already well down the road.

    In the first instance, the engine change is largely irrelevant. In the second instance, the engine change would be very significant.

    But they're estimating completion in 1.5 years, so either they intend to break all existing MMO development speed records, or something is not quite on the level here...
    It's not impossible to create a MMORPG in around 2 years with a pre-existing engine like Unreal. Black Desert Online if I'm correct was in development for about 3 years in total and they would even have built their own engine from scratch. It depends a lot on the size of the team, the content and features they plan to have for launch, how much of the stuff is created in-house vs. what is reused from existing assets / tech, etc.

    I don't know any crowdfunding project that hasn't been delayed (based on the KS estimated date), so I guess it  will be the same with CoE.

    With all the features they've presented though, I'm pretty sure they'll have to cut a lot of them to make it reasonably delayed and financially viable.
  • RPGMASTERGAMERRPGMASTERGAMER Member UncommonPosts: 516
    Adjuvant1 said:
    I'm not sure if that wrong, but these guys just got 900k moneys
    with just... papers and drawing...
    Give them a bit credit.
    That doesn't deserve credit in my world, though. A finished product deserves credit.
    yes yes but everyone work for moneys usualy, their goal when they make a game was to get a sucess and alot of money, they have reach their goal with some papers and some drawing, that kinda pretty amazing, with kickstarter system they can pretty much keep the money and never deliver a games, im sure they will feel realy bad about themselve but the money will help them chear up a bit.
  • drakeordanskadrakeordanska Member UncommonPosts: 240
    You all say how it's never been done with a team this size and a budget this size etc etc.

    Just one comment...
    The atom had not been split till Einstein (and team) figured it out.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    You all say how it's never been done with a team this size and a budget this size etc etc.

    Just one comment...
    The atom had not been split till Einstein (and team) figured it out.
    Except it wasn't "Einstein and team" that figured that one out, lol

    In the case of CoE, "splitting the atom" would be equivalent to the game design documents.

    Building the game would be equivalent to the Manhattan Project, which was the practical application of nuclear fission.

    "The Manhattan Project began modestly in 1939, but grew to employ more than 130,000 people and cost nearly US$2 billion (about $26 billion in 2016[1] dollars)."
  • drakeordanskadrakeordanska Member UncommonPosts: 240
    Your right I'm not great with my physics history it seems.

    But the point still stands regardless of the scientist that discovered it. I'm not going to derail the thread by my lack of knowledge in that field.

    Something will seem possible until it is done
  • AnirethAnireth Member UncommonPosts: 940
    Promising the world and not delivering 90% of it is not limited to indie games, and half, if not more, indie games are done by promiment persons that left a big company to start their own, so it's hardly the fault of random people finally grasping for the chance to make their dream game.

    I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
    And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
    Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
    And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,973
    What they've shown so far has been extremely limited.  Walking around in the world and one one PvP has been about it.  Most of those list of features are stretch goals which means if the level is met someone will start working on them.  No word of a date for alpha trials.  The idea is interesting but this game appears to be still mostly concept.  This part for me is the hardest reading all the speculation until alpha starts.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • drakeordanskadrakeordanska Member UncommonPosts: 240
    That's the point isn't it though. Until we actually start testing it we are all merely speculating
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Ok so at what point would it be obvious that the nascent game isn't going to make it? Some are saying that is the case now. From a standpoint of business practice was the plan:

    a) Dream up bait concept
    b) cobble together working display model to simulate a product
    c) Announce kickstarter
    d) new kickstarters
    e) Skim what money you can and use for whatever you want
    f) wait for interest/anger to die off

    or

    a) Dream up concept
    b) kickstarter
    c) realize you have effectively been trying to do the impossible
    d) wait for interest/anger to die off

    I guess if you think it was the first then it's really about the funding source. If the second it's a matter of whether or not Soulbound is capable of building the product (i.e. is Jeromy Walsh in a fantasyland not called Elyria). 

    Parsimony would indicate that they are earnestly trying to build the game they want, and if something stops them it will be something unforeseen or unstoppable. 

    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    How does anything get done these days with so much negativity from Internet 'experts'....
  • ZultraZultra Member UncommonPosts: 385
    Archlyte said:
    Ok so at what point would it be obvious that the nascent game isn't going to make it? Some are saying that is the case now. From a standpoint of business practice was the plan:

    a) Dream up bait concept
    b) cobble together working display model to simulate a product
    c) Announce kickstarter
    d) new kickstarters
    e) Skim what money you can and use for whatever you want
    f) wait for interest/anger to die off

    or

    a) Dream up concept
    b) kickstarter
    c) realize you have effectively been trying to do the impossible
    d) wait for interest/anger to die off

    I guess if you think it was the first then it's really about the funding source. If the second it's a matter of whether or not Soulbound is capable of building the product (i.e. is Jeromy Walsh in a fantasyland not called Elyria). 

    Parsimony would indicate that they are earnestly trying to build the game they want, and if something stops them it will be something unforeseen or unstoppable. 

    Calling Caspian a fraud? got evidence. 
    Sign up for Chronicles of Elyria here don't forget to use my friend code - B4ACB3

    Join the revolutionary MMO! 
  • RPGMASTERGAMERRPGMASTERGAMER Member UncommonPosts: 516
    How does anything get done these days with so much negativity from Internet 'experts'....
    im a internet experts if you want understand why you can contact me, im not overpriced
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Zultra said:
    Archlyte said:
    Ok so at what point would it be obvious that the nascent game isn't going to make it? Some are saying that is the case now. From a standpoint of business practice was the plan:

    a) Dream up bait concept
    b) cobble together working display model to simulate a product
    c) Announce kickstarter
    d) new kickstarters
    e) Skim what money you can and use for whatever you want
    f) wait for interest/anger to die off

    or

    a) Dream up concept
    b) kickstarter
    c) realize you have effectively been trying to do the impossible
    d) wait for interest/anger to die off

    I guess if you think it was the first then it's really about the funding source. If the second it's a matter of whether or not Soulbound is capable of building the product (i.e. is Jeromy Walsh in a fantasyland not called Elyria). 

    Parsimony would indicate that they are earnestly trying to build the game they want, and if something stops them it will be something unforeseen or unstoppable. 

    Calling Caspian a fraud? got evidence. 
    I think you need to re-read my post
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,797
    Archlyte said:
    Zultra said:
    Archlyte said:
    Ok so at what point would it be obvious that the nascent game isn't going to make it? Some are saying that is the case now. From a standpoint of business practice was the plan:

    a) Dream up bait concept
    b) cobble together working display model to simulate a product
    c) Announce kickstarter
    d) new kickstarters
    e) Skim what money you can and use for whatever you want
    f) wait for interest/anger to die off

    or

    a) Dream up concept
    b) kickstarter
    c) realize you have effectively been trying to do the impossible
    d) wait for interest/anger to die off

    I guess if you think it was the first then it's really about the funding source. If the second it's a matter of whether or not Soulbound is capable of building the product (i.e. is Jeromy Walsh in a fantasyland not called Elyria). 

    Parsimony would indicate that they are earnestly trying to build the game they want, and if something stops them it will be something unforeseen or unstoppable. 

    Calling Caspian a fraud? got evidence. 
    I think you need to re-read my post
    I loled too.
    But hey we are the narrow sighted haters...
    Harbinger of Fools
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Dakeru said:

    I loled too.
    But hey we are the narrow sighted haters...
    I wouldn't call people haters, although I would say it's not exactly fair to label every single kickstarter that comes along a fraud, or some kind of embezzlement scheme. Which it's the same people that do it to every single one that comes along for the most part. 

    That just seems like paranoia to me TBH.


    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • whilanwhilan Member UncommonPosts: 3,472
    edited May 2016
    Distopia said:
    Dakeru said:

    I loled too.
    But hey we are the narrow sighted haters...
    I wouldn't call people haters, although I would say it's not exactly fair to label every single kickstarter that comes along a fraud, or some kind of embezzlement scheme. Which it's the same people that do it to every single one that comes along for the most part. 

    That just seems like paranoia to me TBH.


    I'd say give them 1 year to see how they are doing, if nothing to very little has come out of it then we can start really questioning where the resources are going. If it's sufficient to satisfy the backers, then we come back in 6 months. then 2 months and then we should be hearing something major by then.  While I can understand it's a lot, we are also guesstimate at their abilities and trying to make conjectures on what will happen. We need more evidence to see how they are coming along.

    As a backer myself I am going to be holding them to a higher standard and if they don't reach that. I will be harder on them, then other game I just buy in the store.

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    whilan said:



    I'd say give them 1 year to see how they are doing, if nothing to very little has come out of it then we can start really questioning where the resources are going. If it's sufficient to satisfy the backers, then we come back in 6 months. then 2 months and then we should be hearing something major by then.  While I can understand it's a lot, we are also guesstimate at their abilities and trying to make conjectures on what will happen. We need more evidence to see how they are coming along.

    As a backer myself I am going to be holding them to a higher standard and if they don't reach that. I will be harder on them, then other game I just buy in the store.
    That's all we can really do, especially those of us on the sidelines (non backers like myself). I'm as skeptical of KS or other crowdfunding methods as those who are against it as a whole. Yet I see no benefit for myself or anyone else in trying to paint a negative picture of the process or those partaking in it.

    It's not my money on the line, and considering it is someone's money on the line. I feel it would be unfair for myself to attempt to thwart those efforts in seeing a product become a reality. As well as attempt to turn folks away from it.

     It wouldn't be helping backers to do so, it helps no one in the end, it only hurts the possibilities of that product becoming a reality. For someone not monetarily involved to do so, is not fair at all to those who are.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    My guess is by the end of next year we'll probably see a combat "module" released, followed by a siege warfare "module" and perhaps a "persistent world" made up of a couple cities where they sell players virtual real estate to continue funding development. All the while promising these modules will come together as a glorious mmorpg that will continue to grow in features that only exist on a whiteboard somewhere.


  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Distopia said:
    whilan said:



    I'd say give them 1 year to see how they are doing, if nothing to very little has come out of it then we can start really questioning where the resources are going. If it's sufficient to satisfy the backers, then we come back in 6 months. then 2 months and then we should be hearing something major by then.  While I can understand it's a lot, we are also guesstimate at their abilities and trying to make conjectures on what will happen. We need more evidence to see how they are coming along.

    As a backer myself I am going to be holding them to a higher standard and if they don't reach that. I will be harder on them, then other game I just buy in the store.
    That's all we can really do, especially those of us on the sidelines (non backers like myself). I'm as skeptical of KS or other crowdfunding methods as those who are against it as a whole. Yet I see no benefit for myself or anyone else in trying to paint a negative picture of the process or those partaking in it.

    It's not my money on the line, and considering it is someone's money on the line. I feel it would be unfair for myself to attempt to thwart those efforts in seeing a product become a reality. As well as attempt to turn folks away from it.

     It wouldn't be helping backers to do so, it helps no one in the end, it only hurts the possibilities of that product becoming a reality. For someone not monetarily involved to do so, is not fair at all to those who are.
    I'm not anti-KS by any means. I think it's a great concept, as long as you're OK with the risks involved in crowdfunding creative projects like games, and especially large complicated projects like MMO's.

    However, the history of indie MMORPG projects pre-dates KS by many years. I think the only reasonably successful ones were Ryzom and Darkfall, even though DF didn't ever deliver it's original design.

    I'm simply critical of CoE because it seems to fit the usual pattern of promising a large variety of extremely complex features that nobody has been able to deliver before, and to deliver them faster and cheaper than games of lesser complexity.

    Not saying they can't do it, just being rather sceptical...
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