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This gameplay footage was before they raised 1 dollar.

13

Comments

  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    Erillion said:
    "Roberts said: ... more about 64-bit positional space

    ...but since you generally won't be able to see millions of kilometers away, the visible range is inside 32 bits, but the overall system space is much bigger."

    These bits are interesting to me. The way I'm reading it is that the larger world (ie space) is using 64 bit precision while the local zones (where things actually happen) are using 32 bit precision.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Erillion said:
    "Roberts said: ... more about 64-bit positional space

    ...but since you generally won't be able to see millions of kilometers away, the visible range is inside 32 bits, but the overall system space is much bigger."

    These bits are interesting to me. The way I'm reading it is that the larger world (ie space) is using 64 bit precision while the local zones (where things actually happen) are using 32 bit precision.

    The way i am reading what has been said so far:

    If your grafic card is capable of 64 bit (not all are) then its using 64 bit also for the local zones

    If your grafic card is only capable of 32 bit, then for the local zones (8x8 km) its using 32 bit, while the engine overall uses 64 bit.


    Have fun
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    edited May 2016
    Erillion said:
    Erillion said:
    "Roberts said: ... more about 64-bit positional space

    ...but since you generally won't be able to see millions of kilometers away, the visible range is inside 32 bits, but the overall system space is much bigger."

    These bits are interesting to me. The way I'm reading it is that the larger world (ie space) is using 64 bit precision while the local zones (where things actually happen) are using 32 bit precision.

    The way i am reading what has been said so far:

    If your grafic card is capable of 64 bit (not all are) then its using 64 bit also for the local zones

    If your grafic card is only capable of 32 bit, then for the local zones (8x8 km) its using 32 bit, while the engine overall uses 64 bit.


    Have fun

    I don't know. If viewable distance within local zones doesn't extend beyond 32 bit range then it seems pointless making calculations using the much more expensive 64 bit.

    Looking at the performance difference between FP32 and FP64 backs up that line of thinking, all the action will be occuring within local zones and that's where you want to run everything as inexpensively as possible.
    See charts - http://arrayfire.com/explaining-fp64-performance-on-gpus/

  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    edited May 2016
    Erillion said:
    Erillion said:
    "Roberts said: ... more about 64-bit positional space

    ...but since you generally won't be able to see millions of kilometers away, the visible range is inside 32 bits, but the overall system space is much bigger."

    These bits are interesting to me. The way I'm reading it is that the larger world (ie space) is using 64 bit precision while the local zones (where things actually happen) are using 32 bit precision.

    The way i am reading what has been said so far:

    If your grafic card is capable of 64 bit (not all are) then its using 64 bit also for the local zones

    If your grafic card is only capable of 32 bit, then for the local zones (8x8 km) its using 32 bit, while the engine overall uses 64 bit.


    Have fun
    Wrong, every video card can compute FP64 ... unfortunately very slow - i.e. at a rate of 1/24 of FP32. With older cards it is just more extreme.

    Nvidia
    Kepler: 1/24
    Maxwell: 1/32
    Quadro/Tesla: 1/3

    AMD
    Tahiti: 1/4
    Hawaii: 1/3
    FirePro W9100, W8100 and S9150: 1/2

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    That is what optimization is for. 

    If the zone is small enough (anything within 8x8 km)  - E.g. inside of a ship or Space station - it is my understanding that 32 bit and 64 bit yield the same result (and 32 is quicker for such small areas and will most likely be used for optimization reasons).

    In larger zones (larger than 8 km) 64 bit will be used. 


    @Turrican187 ;
    Thank you for that table. Given the poor 64 bit performance of older Nvidia cards i now understand better why Chris Roberts at one time promoted AMD and Mantle quite a bit. The AMD cards in General seem to be better suited for the 64 bit calculations. 


    Have fun
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Erillion said:
    @Kefo
    "You are so fond of asking for proof so how about you post a link where CIG admits to successfully converting to 64bit and not some offhanded remark that is open to interpretation please."


    To spare us a lot of time and effort of rehashing the same links and arguments on 64 bit 3D engine  AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN .... we have been there in this subforum before, even recently. You will also find a lot of threads about it on the official forum. And i am sure reddit has a lot too.

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/449498/how-double-precision-is-working-in-star-citizen#latest


    "These links on technology in SC might help:

    http://www.gamersnexus.net/gg/2019-star-citizen-multi-crew-interview-with-chris-roberts

    http://www.gamersnexus.net/gg/2119-chris-roberts-on-star-citizen-network-and-render-pipelines

    http://www.gamersnexus.net/gg/1854-chris-roberts-pax-east-instancing-and-zoning

    http://www.gamersnexus.net/gg/986-star-citizen-interview-technology


    "....Roberts cites the move to a 64-bit engine as a major milestone for the Cloud Imperium Games team, emphasizing that the move to 64-bit will allow greater precision and size for positional space. Of the move, Roberts said:

    “There's a bunch of stuff that's really exciting. [The move to 64-bit] is less about 64-bit compile [and] more about 64-bit positional space […] Pretty much every 3D engine works in 32-bit, which is great for a normal FPS – because you usually don't have maps that are bigger than, say, 8km x 8km – but for us, we've got star systems that are millions of kilometers across and the precision of 32-bit just isn't enough.

    We've spent about 8 months now – it's done – moving the engine over to 64-bit world space coordinates. The last part of it was moving rendering over so it became camera-relative. The GPUs themselves generally don't work in 64-bit – they work in 32-bit – but since you generally won't be able to see millions of kilometers away, the visible range is inside 32 bits, but the overall system space is much bigger. ..."


    http://www.gamersnexus.net/gg/2119-chris-roberts-on-star-citizen-network-and-render-pipelines

    http://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/how-star-citizen-is-going-to-happen-chris-roberts-on-the-grand-assembly-of-his-capital-ship

    http://www.dsogaming.com/interviews/cloud-imperium-on-star-citizen-mods-pc-exclusivity-graphical-features-directx12-multi-core-cpus/

    https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/search?Search=3D+engine+64+bit


    Also interesting:
    http://www.scqa.eu/?keywords=64

    Various answers on 64 bit in SC."


    @Kefo
    >>>>when another dev has raised serious concerns about them pulling it off.>>>
    Which dev do you mean specifically ?  If you mean James Hicks (Ascent lead developer)
    http://massivelyop.com/2015/10/21/ascents-lead-dev-offers-insight-on-the-star-citizen-controversy/
    he said this:  "I can’t tell you for sure how CIG has solved that problem, but I can tell you it looks like the studio has definitely solved it, based on its most recent gameplay videos."
    If you mean that OTHER "developer".... ;-) .... :-D .... :-P .... 'nuff said ....


    Have fun




    Jesus I must have hit a nerve or something. I asked for proof, not to be buried under a mountain of links and most of which have nothing to do with what I asked for. At least you did what I asked but almost not worth it since I had to dig through the garbage to find the one nugget I wanted.

    Yes I do mean James Hicks. The guy who said that if they did solve the 64 bit problem they open themselves up to even more problems. The same one who says how Derek Smart was the one who solved the problems CIG is having back in the 90's or is wondering why Braben isn't saying anything about the subject. How about how he says

    "CIG, from an outsider’s perspective, appears to have failed comprehensively on both fronts (64bits in June 2015 reads like a miss, and apparently Smart offered them help at the outset and was ignored — also a miss), but the company has now paid for that failure by doing everything itself. "

    A general take away from that article is that Hicks is more criticizing CIG then praising them.

    On a side note you do know you can say Derek's name right? Hicks seems quite fine with giving praise to Derek but yet to you he might as well be Krampus.
  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    Erillion said:
    Erillion said:
    "Roberts said: ... more about 64-bit positional space

    ...but since you generally won't be able to see millions of kilometers away, the visible range is inside 32 bits, but the overall system space is much bigger."

    These bits are interesting to me. The way I'm reading it is that the larger world (ie space) is using 64 bit precision while the local zones (where things actually happen) are using 32 bit precision.

    The way i am reading what has been said so far:

    If your grafic card is capable of 64 bit (not all are) then its using 64 bit also for the local zones

    If your grafic card is only capable of 32 bit, then for the local zones (8x8 km) its using 32 bit, while the engine overall uses 64 bit.


    Have fun
    Even the most powerful cards suck at 64 bit computing. They manage it but the performance handicap is huge. I am curious to see what trick they have up their sleeves in order to negotiate this.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Adjuvant1 said:
    Erillion said:
    In SQ 42 you earn your Citizenship through military service. A bit like in Starship Troopers. Being a Citizen via achievements in SQ42  grants some benefits in the Persistent Universe (details still in discussion - being able to vote is one of them). 

    SQ42 on PS4 directly contradicts all currently available information. Chris Roberts repeatedly said it will NOT be a console game due to technical limitations of the current generation of consoles. 


    Have fun
    It was said "Star Citizen will be on PC". Nothing was said about SQ42.

    I think its a fairly safe bet that if there was any intention to release a console version of SQ42, then it would have been advertised ages ago, i think you can pretty much take them at their word when they say that it won't be a console game due to the technical limitations of consoles, if that ever changes, i am sure they will broadcast the fact without the need for trying to find any hidden meaning through semantic gymnastics.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    edited May 2016
    Shodanas said:
    Erillion said:
    Erillion said:
    "Roberts said: ... more about 64-bit positional space

    ...but since you generally won't be able to see millions of kilometers away, the visible range is inside 32 bits, but the overall system space is much bigger."

    These bits are interesting to me. The way I'm reading it is that the larger world (ie space) is using 64 bit precision while the local zones (where things actually happen) are using 32 bit precision.

    The way i am reading what has been said so far:

    If your grafic card is capable of 64 bit (not all are) then its using 64 bit also for the local zones

    If your grafic card is only capable of 32 bit, then for the local zones (8x8 km) its using 32 bit, while the engine overall uses 64 bit.


    Have fun
    Even the most powerful cards suck at 64 bit computing. They manage it but the performance handicap is huge. I am curious to see what trick they have up their sleeves in order to negotiate this.
    They have a few options and one of the easiest is to render objects in 32 bit.  So when an object is 100 KM away they for the sake of video cards pull the object within the 32 bit range which would be like 11 KM.  Shrink the object so it looks like its 100 KM.  I just found something that was very interesting and idk where else to put it.

    http://massivelyop.com/2015/10/21/ascents-lead-dev-offers-insight-on-the-star-citizen-controversy/

    scroll down to the bottom of the article heading conclusion

    • Shipping an initial “minimum viable product” and adding the rest of the cool bits with expansion packs and DLC.

    This was written in OCT by a game developer outside of CIG.
    Post edited by filmoret on
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    edited May 2016
    filmoret said:
    Which was one of the main problems that CIG ignored. 
    CIG ignored nothing w.r.t. grafic card performance.

    Even back in 2013 CIG and AMD started a cooperation:

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13362-Star-Citizen-To-Include-Mantle-Support

    “AMD’s Mantle will allow us to extract more performance from an AMD Radeon GPU than any other graphics API,” said Chris Roberts, CEO, Cloud Imperium Games. “Mantle is vitally important for a game like Star Citizen, which is being designed with the need for massive GPU horsepower. With Mantle, our team can spend more time achieving our perfect artistic vision, and less time worrying about whether or not today’s gaming hardware will be ready to deliver it.”


    Have fun


  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,589
    So still more theories and ironically you guys are arguing about EXACTLY what Smart, Jam and others said is basically impossible. Running (uninstanced) 32 bit space 'within' 64 bit space. i.e. cockpits, ships, hangers within the 64 bit generalized world. And having them all mesh. You dont need and really cant do 64 bit inside a small area, without it being a slide show or a bunch of moves that look like flash cards getting flipped.

    Like I said ANYONE can make a 64 bit rendering, getting it actually implemented is the hard part, and they have not in any way shape or form done that. Despite what you keep trying to claim.

    I have stated exactly what all the pros here state as 'my understanding' or xxx said. Yeah they SAID and CLAIMED, they havent actually MADE IT WORK. Nor will they more than likely. With double their budget and actual engineers that know what theyre doing they might get something rudimentary.

    I will hearken you back to my fish bowl within a swimming pool analogy, I used that for a reason, I guess it was lost on people. I remember when this was first announced people dreaming of finding their exotic fish (a single fish) within some huge hold of some jpeg they had bought, thinking how 'cool' it would be to find (and look at and pick up) a 1 cm fish inside a who knows how many cubic meters of space/water (I am sure you can look it up) and selling it somewhere. Point out all the things in that dream that dont exist yet and all the ones that do and you will see the chance of the reality they have of actually coming true.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Deja vu.

    Same people, same arguments, same interpretations, same results. 


    Have fun
  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 4,076
    Erillion said:
    Deja vu.

    Same people, same arguments, same interpretations, same results. 


    Have fun
    Tough day in the office, aight :D
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,589
    edited May 2016
    Erillion said:
    Deja vu.

    Same people, same arguments, same interpretations, same results. 


    Have fun
    Because its what we have always said it was and what it has been since this video was shot. Cant really change the argument until something else changes. THATS what you guys dont get. Youre so hung up on trying to spin this and make every failure and missed deadline some sort of 'its normal' campaign you lose sight of the reality of it all.

    I said there wasnt a single video if star citizen with a 64 bit system, you then went off on a tangent about Space Engineers. Then after I addressed that you tried to claim the 'alpha' was in 64 bit, I said it wasnt then you went through your whole posting of (completely irrelevant and proving nothing) links and then you basically come to the realization (or you knew it all along and didnt want to admit it) that there is in fact nothing about anything anyone has ever seen from SC that show anything 64 bit.

    SO why would we have to change our arguments?
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    rodarin said:

    SO why would we have to change our arguments?
    All the sources i have posted ... you are basically saying "They are lying and it ain't so!" ?

    In that case we will have to wait until launch day and see the final product.


    Have fun

  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,589
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:

    SO why would we have to change our arguments?
    All the sources i have posted ... you are basically saying "They are lying and it ain't so!" ?

    In that case we will have to wait until launch day and see the final   Minimally viable product.


    Have fun

    fixed that for ya
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    filmoret said:
    Shodanas said:
    Erillion said:
    Erillion said:
    "Roberts said: ... more about 64-bit positional space

    ...but since you generally won't be able to see millions of kilometers away, the visible range is inside 32 bits, but the overall system space is much bigger."

    These bits are interesting to me. The way I'm reading it is that the larger world (ie space) is using 64 bit precision while the local zones (where things actually happen) are using 32 bit precision.

    The way i am reading what has been said so far:

    If your grafic card is capable of 64 bit (not all are) then its using 64 bit also for the local zones

    If your grafic card is only capable of 32 bit, then for the local zones (8x8 km) its using 32 bit, while the engine overall uses 64 bit.


    Have fun
    Even the most powerful cards suck at 64 bit computing. They manage it but the performance handicap is huge. I am curious to see what trick they have up their sleeves in order to negotiate this.
    They have a few options and one of the easiest is to render objects in 32 bit.  So when an object is 100 KM away they for the sake of video cards pull the object within the 32 bit range which would be like 11 KM.  Shrink the object so it looks like its 100 KM.  I just found something that was very interesting and idk where else to put it.

    http://massivelyop.com/2015/10/21/ascents-lead-dev-offers-insight-on-the-star-citizen-controversy/

    scroll down to the bottom of the article heading conclusion

    • Shipping an initial “minimum viable product” and adding the rest of the cool bits with expansion packs and DLC.

    This was written in OCT by a game developer outside of CIG.
    oh shrinking would only work in single player games, shrinking in multiplayer would lead to very funny bugs, let alone hitbox or perspektive/layer issues.

    you would recognise 64BitFP rather on the small things like jittering, on large scale this can be tricked.

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    How did this discussion turn into one about 32 vs 64 bit?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Distopia said:
    How did this discussion turn into one about 32 vs 64 bit?
    Page 2. This post by @rodarin

    "I doubt very highly SQ 42 will be 64 bit. If it is dont expect it until the end of next year if then even.

    There hasnt been a single video of a 64 bit system gameplay shown, not one. So to think theyre ready to plug it in somewhere and it will be ready to play anything on is beyond naive. If they had such a video of their remarkable first time ever done 64 bit system it would be out there front and center as a PR monument to help them continue to raise more money from people 'on the fence'. But since they havent shown anything like that logic says it doesnt exist. Proof is the video in this thread.

    People can also say that video wasnt this or that, well no one has ever said what this tech demo test bed theyre calling an alpha is actually an alpha of either. I have asked that point  blank question a half dozen times and it has never been acknowledged let alone answered. So in reality no one knows what SC world will be and no one knows what SQ 42 world will be other than the claims they make. People cite this thing they can do dogfighting in and run around a couple instanced hangers but no one really knows where that is going either. Thats why its a test bed tech demo, It lets them add stuff to test and it allows them to add modules when they get them ready. It isnt persistent it has no other core MMO features like crafting, economy, player interaction (other than shooting at each other) its just something theyre using to showcase the few jpegs they actually turned into something playable and testing their module connections thats it. If you want to call that an alpha so be it. "


    Have fun

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Erillion said:
    Distopia said:
    How did this discussion turn into one about 32 vs 64 bit?
     @rodarin



    Heh that part went without saying haha :)

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    filmoret said:
    Shodanas said:
    Erillion said:
    Erillion said:
    "Roberts said: ... more about 64-bit positional space

    ...but since you generally won't be able to see millions of kilometers away, the visible range is inside 32 bits, but the overall system space is much bigger."

    These bits are interesting to me. The way I'm reading it is that the larger world (ie space) is using 64 bit precision while the local zones (where things actually happen) are using 32 bit precision.

    The way i am reading what has been said so far:

    If your grafic card is capable of 64 bit (not all are) then its using 64 bit also for the local zones

    If your grafic card is only capable of 32 bit, then for the local zones (8x8 km) its using 32 bit, while the engine overall uses 64 bit.


    Have fun
    Even the most powerful cards suck at 64 bit computing. They manage it but the performance handicap is huge. I am curious to see what trick they have up their sleeves in order to negotiate this.
    They have a few options and one of the easiest is to render objects in 32 bit.  So when an object is 100 KM away they for the sake of video cards pull the object within the 32 bit range which would be like 11 KM.  Shrink the object so it looks like its 100 KM.  I just found something that was very interesting and idk where else to put it.

    http://massivelyop.com/2015/10/21/ascents-lead-dev-offers-insight-on-the-star-citizen-controversy/

    scroll down to the bottom of the article heading conclusion

    • Shipping an initial “minimum viable product” and adding the rest of the cool bits with expansion packs and DLC.

    This was written in OCT by a game developer outside of CIG.
    oh shrinking would only work in single player games, shrinking in multiplayer would lead to very funny bugs, let alone hitbox or perspektive/layer issues.

    you would recognise 64BitFP rather on the small things like jittering, on large scale this can be tricked.

    Which brings me back to my original thought.  Since video cards can barely use 24 bit calculations on the far clip plane.  CIG somehow figured out how to make them use 64.  Not impossible but highly unlikely.  And because amd is better at doing it we are somehow going to trash the nvidia gpu's which are better at everything else.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Kefo said:


    Jesus I must have hit a nerve or something. I asked for proof, not to be buried under a mountain of links and most of which have nothing to do with what I asked for. At least you did what I asked but almost not worth it since I had to dig through the garbage to find the one nugget I wanted.

    Yes I do mean James Hicks. The guy who said that if they did solve the 64 bit problem they open themselves up to even more problems. The same one who says how Derek Smart was the one who solved the problems CIG is having back in the 90's or is wondering why Braben isn't saying anything about the subject. How about how he says

    "CIG, from an outsider’s perspective, appears to have failed comprehensively on both fronts (64bits in June 2015 reads like a miss, and apparently Smart offered them help at the outset and was ignored — also a miss), but the company has now paid for that failure by doing everything itself. "

    A general take away from that article is that Hicks is more criticizing CIG then praising them.

    On a side note you do know you can say Derek's name right? Hicks seems quite fine with giving praise to Derek but yet to you he might as well be Krampus.

    Lol, when he says it was "a miss" does he mean a mistake. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Derek's past, but he's been quite helpful to other companies. Try googling David Allen and Quest Online and maybe you can gain some insight into how he helped David. Just saying..... You know how there are some people who you should just steer clear of, regardless of what they might know or not know? Yeah, he's one. Honestly, I don't blame them for avoiding taking advice from DS. 


    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • bmw66bmw66 Member UncommonPosts: 140
    Games dead. Get over it and move on.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    edited May 2016

    rodarin said:
    Erillion said:
    Deja vu.

    Same people, same arguments, same interpretations, same results. 


    Have fun
    Because its what we have always said it was and what it has been since this video was shot. Cant really change the argument until something else changes. THATS what you guys dont get. Youre so hung up on trying to spin this and make every failure and missed deadline some sort of 'its normal' campaign you lose sight of the reality of it all.

    I said there wasnt a single video if star citizen with a 64 bit system, you then went off on a tangent about Space Engineers. Then after I addressed that you tried to claim the 'alpha' was in 64 bit, I said it wasnt then you went through your whole posting of (completely irrelevant and proving nothing) links and then you basically come to the realization (or you knew it all along and didnt want to admit it) that there is in fact nothing about anything anyone has ever seen from SC that show anything 64 bit.

    SO why would we have to change our arguments?

    I would disagree about the video. It's very easy to say "Hey! Look! It's exactly the same thing." For those who believe that it's that shallow and argument are obviously uneducated about what it takes to make a game. If you want to fly around in a 500 meter cube with static asteroids, cool! Shipped! 

    On top of that, I'm sure that you would contend that the Jennison letter is real..... so if art assets take so long at CIG then why are you wondering why it's taking so long? 

    Then you go on to talk about 64-bit and how it isn't done and how it's a massive issue. 

    So, basically, there is all this talk about how they haven't made any progress, but you go on to describe areas which are still being addressed. That doesn't even take into consideration the fact that planetscape, stations, multiplayer, etc. have been added in. 

    Just saying, everything here is quite contradictory. If you really want to make an intelligent argument, I wouldn't put all my eggs into the "they haven't made any progress since 2012" argument. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    bmw66 said:
    Games dead. Get over it and move on.
    Does not look dead ;-) 

    (Player made Video is from a few days ago, the Top 5 fan made videos have more than 3 million clicks)





    Have fun

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