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Mobile Gaming is King, and Consoles retake lead from PC

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  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415

    They've been saying that about PC gaming for 2 decades now and they've been consistently wrong.

    Frankly I don't consider mobile gamin "gaming".  That's like saying a guy sitting at a table doing crossword puzzles or Sudoku in his local newspaper is "gaming".

    Like usual they just loosen up the definition of the word in an effort to move the goalposts. Get so tired of this garbage.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Colt47 said:
    filmoret said:
    Colt47 said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    What do you all think?  Is Mobile the future?

    It depends on what your standards are.

    For me mobile gaming is a bit like virtual sex.

    Not as good as the real thing and only for people that don't have access to the real thing. 
    Yeah, not true.

    I've been playing computer games since age 4, and I have something on my phone right now that is way beyond anything we had back then, and just as entertaining to me as the gamut of current Steam offerings.

    In fact, it's seamlessly cross-platform; If I were to so choose, I could continue on my PC right where I left off on mobile, and vice-versa.

    Oh gawd!!! That's not even fair! What is it? Are you in marketing? :) 

    I tend to agree. I have a game on mobile right now that I might play more than I do console or PC games. It's totally P2W but I have some friends who brought me into it and I like the strategery involved.
    We're all in marketing, man, although not all of us understand it.  Ever watch The Jonses? Marketing is part of what I do for a living, but it has nothing to do with my posts here.  This is strictly a hobby, for me.

    As far as what it is, I have a superstition about stating its name.
    The point I'm making is that the audience for mobile games is way different from the kind of person that plays primarily PC and console games.   The chances of Mobile ever replacing PCs is basically zero until some kind of amazing virtual control powered by direct brain manipulation is invented.
    You have to think outside of the box here.  Yes we are talking about gaming but we are also talking about the extinction of the PC.  Why or how is that possible?  Because iphones are basically a pc.  People who want a pc can do what they wanted on their iphone.  So why bother getting a pc when you can just get an iphone and do all the internet and computer stuff you wanted?  PC's are going to be in minority and a very small minority soon.  If you remove gaming from this equation then what purpose does a pc have that the iphone cannot attain right now?
    Mobile systems enhance a PC, not render it pointless.  There are things people can do on PCs that are just not possible on tablets and smart phones and the future isn't about the extinction of the PC: It's about how will we build on it?  What IS in danger are traditional laptops.  Those were always a compromise between power and mobility, but once streaming improves and we have better internet infrastructure we will have the power of a PC on our tablets and phones thanks to being able to tapped into a PC we own at our own homes.  We can already do streaming via consoles through bluetooth, wifi, etc, and it is a very useful technique to let players with busy lives do some of the smaller tasks in MMORPGs.
    A normal person who doesn't play games has no use for a pc right now.  Because everything they need to do can be done with the iphone.  The only advantage pc is offering them is bigger screen and yet that isn't always the case because you can hook the phone up to a television now.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415

    That's not entirely true Filmoret.  Tablets are just about impossible to do actual work on, unless that is design type work where you draw with a stylis (or however you spell it).

    Coders are never going to use tablets. Authors, secretaries, typists, etc, will NEVER use a tablet.  Engineers, modelers, architects, etc, will NEVER use tablets. Research scientists will never use tablets.  Accountants will never use tablets.

    While for the average person surfing the web or watching youtube, yes, tablets are more than sufficient.  The probem they're running into and they didn't account for a few years back when everyone was claiming desktop PC's would be nonexistent is the fact that you don't need to upgrade tablets very often.  The processing capabilities needed for stuff like web browsing and youtube are so low that even a 3 year old tablet is more than capable of it.

    They're now finding that out as tablet sales are declining stupidly fast and projections are that will continue.  Once the fad was over and people realized the $500 tablet they bought 3 years ago is 80% as fast as a brand new one, they realized there was no point in upgrading, and subsequently stopped buying them.

    Personally I believe the whole mobile gaming thing will die off soon as the novelty wears off, at least for adults.  Children obviously will still do it a lot (although they generally aren't spending a stupid amount of money as the parents limit that).

    Just my predictions, obviously could be wrong on several points.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,405
    My surface tablet with an i5 disagrees with you.

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415
    edited April 2016

    Yes, I'm sure you're typing up tens of thousands of words on your surface tablet.

    Read the post, I didn't say tablets weren't powerful, I said the form factor doesn't lend itself to most work.

    Most of the time you need a keyboard and a mouse, and if you slap a keyboard and a mouse on your surface tablet, it's no longer a tablet, its a laptop.

    Edit: Also, try running something on your surface that pegs all of the cores at 90-100% and see how fast it starts throttling the ever loving shit out of it.  Nobody is going to be using tablets to compile code, or render an image or video, or do CAD/CAM, etc.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Hrimnir said:

    That's not entirely true Filmoret.  Tablets are just about impossible to do actual work on, unless that is design type work where you draw with a stylis (or however you spell it).

    Coders are never going to use tablets. Authors, secretaries, typists, etc, will NEVER use a tablet.  Engineers, modelers, architects, etc, will NEVER use tablets. Research scientists will never use tablets.  Accountants will never use tablets.

    While for the average person surfing the web or watching youtube, yes, tablets are more than sufficient.  The probem they're running into and they didn't account for a few years back when everyone was claiming desktop PC's would be nonexistent is the fact that you don't need to upgrade tablets very often.  The processing capabilities needed for stuff like web browsing and youtube are so low that even a 3 year old tablet is more than capable of it.

    They're now finding that out as tablet sales are declining stupidly fast and projections are that will continue.  Once the fad was over and people realized the $500 tablet they bought 3 years ago is 80% as fast as a brand new one, they realized there was no point in upgrading, and subsequently stopped buying them.

    Personally I believe the whole mobile gaming thing will die off soon as the novelty wears off, at least for adults.  Children obviously will still do it a lot (although they generally aren't spending a stupid amount of money as the parents limit that).

    Just my predictions, obviously could be wrong on several points.

    You are using professions as examples of everyday life.  Yes professionals will need pc's and actually some of those you listed can easily be done with iphone software.  Why type when you can speak?  What happens when every television screen is wirelessly hooked up to an iphone?  Hey you need a keyboard for whatever reason because you can speak to the thing and it types your words.  You can program windows 10 so you never have to use a keyboard right now.  Outside of gaming and professions there will be no use for pc's in the future.  90% of the market wont need it.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,405
    Hrimnir said:

    Yes, I'm sure you're typing up tens of thousands of words on your surface tablet.

    Read the post, I didn't say tablets weren't powerful, I said the form factor doesn't lend itself to most work.

    Most of the time you need a keyboard and a mouse, and if you slap a keyboard and a mouse on your surface tablet, it's no longer a tablet, its a laptop.

    Edit: Also, try running something on your surface that pegs all of the cores at 90-100% and see how fast it starts throttling the ever loving shit out of it.  Nobody is going to be using tablets to compile code, or render an image or video, or do CAD/CAM, etc.

    Image rendering is done quite often on a Surface Pro. I have a keyboard and a pen for mine and it replaced my laptop. The Pro is powerful.

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415

    Hey guys, did you know, Pixar and Disney are doing all their rendering on surface pros!

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,405
    Professional Volume Rendering



    Running Maya 2015, Mudbox 2015 and Zbrush 4r6 (This on a Pro 3 not a more powerful Pro 4)





    Curious about just how good the Surface Pro 4 can perform? Check out this video where I showcase the synthetic and real world photo/video editing performance of the top of the range version.




    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415

    @filmoret that was literally my entire point.  People trying to say that tablets will completely supplant PC's are in every way wrong. And by the way, the amount of money spent on tablets vs stuff like server hardware, and work related hardware isn't even in the same bucket.

    Mobile processors amounted to around 5 billion dollars/yr. Intel's revenue is currently around 10x that. PC hardware revenue is something on the order of 400billion/yr.  Phone (not just processors) are around 70billion a year, tablets are around the same.

    My previous point is still relevant.  Tablet sales are dropping (something like 5% a quarter) and will continue to do so for the exact same reason the PC market did the same thing.  The hardware is far more powerful than it needs to be to perform the tasks the everyday user needs.  That means people have no need to upgrade already existing tablets.

    Again, I don't disagree with you that tablets and phones will be the primary source of internet access and media consumption for most people, I don't even disagree with you that it will be the dominant player in the market.  Where I disagree with you is that it will be 90% of the market.  That's just being ridiculous. There are too many other areas which will always be needed, those markets aren't going to go away.  Supercomputers for research, render farms, etc etc etc.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415
    @blueturtle ok, i'll concede that point for you.  I won't try to move the goalposts, but I will state I was referring more to stuff like what Pixar does.  Again though, I will admit when I'm wrong.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Colt47Colt47 Member UncommonPosts: 549

    filmoret said:
    Colt47 said:
    filmoret said:
    Colt47 said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    What do you all think?  Is Mobile the future?

    It depends on what your standards are.

    For me mobile gaming is a bit like virtual sex.

    Not as good as the real thing and only for people that don't have access to the real thing. 
    Yeah, not true.

    I've been playing computer games since age 4, and I have something on my phone right now that is way beyond anything we had back then, and just as entertaining to me as the gamut of current Steam offerings.

    In fact, it's seamlessly cross-platform; If I were to so choose, I could continue on my PC right where I left off on mobile, and vice-versa.

    Oh gawd!!! That's not even fair! What is it? Are you in marketing? :) 

    I tend to agree. I have a game on mobile right now that I might play more than I do console or PC games. It's totally P2W but I have some friends who brought me into it and I like the strategery involved.
    We're all in marketing, man, although not all of us understand it.  Ever watch The Jonses? Marketing is part of what I do for a living, but it has nothing to do with my posts here.  This is strictly a hobby, for me.

    As far as what it is, I have a superstition about stating its name.
    The point I'm making is that the audience for mobile games is way different from the kind of person that plays primarily PC and console games.   The chances of Mobile ever replacing PCs is basically zero until some kind of amazing virtual control powered by direct brain manipulation is invented.
    You have to think outside of the box here.  Yes we are talking about gaming but we are also talking about the extinction of the PC.  Why or how is that possible?  Because iphones are basically a pc.  People who want a pc can do what they wanted on their iphone.  So why bother getting a pc when you can just get an iphone and do all the internet and computer stuff you wanted?  PC's are going to be in minority and a very small minority soon.  If you remove gaming from this equation then what purpose does a pc have that the iphone cannot attain right now?
    Mobile systems enhance a PC, not render it pointless.  There are things people can do on PCs that are just not possible on tablets and smart phones and the future isn't about the extinction of the PC: It's about how will we build on it?  What IS in danger are traditional laptops.  Those were always a compromise between power and mobility, but once streaming improves and we have better internet infrastructure we will have the power of a PC on our tablets and phones thanks to being able to tapped into a PC we own at our own homes.  We can already do streaming via consoles through bluetooth, wifi, etc, and it is a very useful technique to let players with busy lives do some of the smaller tasks in MMORPGs.
    A normal person who doesn't play games has no use for a pc right now.  Because everything they need to do can be done with the iphone.  The only advantage pc is offering them is bigger screen and yet that isn't always the case because you can hook the phone up to a television now.
    The type of person you are talking about doesn't even play games in the traditional sense that people on this forum are concerned with, so why is it even relevant to discuss?
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,610
    Surface tablets aren't that popular though. I have a Samsung and I use to surf and watch Korean dramas. I must say the tablet because of some amoled display they had the videos always look better than on my PC monitor. Also probably because the screen is smaller the video is sharper.
    Chamber of Chains
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    are people in this thread seriously thinking mobile can make the PC no longer relevant.

    That is pretty funny

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    SEANMCAD said:
    are people in this thread seriously thinking mobile can make the PC no longer relevant.

    That is pretty funny
    There is no reason it can't.  Possible outcomes of this market is every home has a cpu installed that helps coordinate and run all the systems in sync.  Or the items come with their own processors and do the thinking and the iphones give the directions.  Give me a good reason to have a pc when I have an iphone.  Other then gaming and professional applications.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    filmoret said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    are people in this thread seriously thinking mobile can make the PC no longer relevant.

    That is pretty funny
    There is no reason it can't.  Possible outcomes of this market is every home has a cpu installed that helps coordinate and run all the systems in sync.  Or the items come with their own processors and do the thinking and the iphones give the directions.  Give me a good reason to have a pc when I have an iphone.  Other then gaming and professional applications.
    lets divide this subject into two different categories

    Productivity

    Entertainment.

    Productivity: At work I have two 21" monitors and so does everyone else here. My machine can keep up with my demands at work but I have some co-workers in which their machine which is only 3 years old can not. How are we going to use tablets and phone to do our production work?

    Entertainment: I have a Galaxy Note 4 and I have a tablet. Netier of those comes light years close to the entertainment value my PC has been given me. Keyboard, mouse, large 21 inch high resolution monitor and most importantly a GPU and a PCU that is of good quality but 3 years old barely able anymore to withstand the latest games I want to play.

    explain

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • OfficerFriendlyEQ2OfficerFriendlyEQ2 Member UncommonPosts: 105

    facts are facts my fellow nerds. don't look any further than the fact that PCs are being out paced by the maturing market of tablets/phones/consoles. Fun is fun no matter how they package it. New things can be learned.

    moreover, we get it, you refuse to leave your desktop...but just because you still wear the flock of seagull hair style doesn't mean you have the pulse of all the other gamers in the room.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited April 2016

    facts are facts my fellow nerds. don't look any further than the fact that PCs are being out paced by the maturing market of tablets/phones/consoles. Fun is fun no matter how they package it. New things can be learned.

    moreover, we get it, you refuse to leave your desktop...but just because you still wear the flock of seagull hair style doesn't mean you have the pulse of all the other gamers in the room.

    yeah I will be sure to tell every co-worker I ever have had in all the offices I have worked in over the past 20 years or so that they should be doing spreadsheet, visual studio, database and autocad work on a phone....lol

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • OfficerFriendlyEQ2OfficerFriendlyEQ2 Member UncommonPosts: 105

    ya I do AutoCAD, Navis BIM etc but I thought we were talking about games, no?

  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    SEANMCAD said:
    filmoret said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    are people in this thread seriously thinking mobile can make the PC no longer relevant.

    That is pretty funny
    There is no reason it can't.  Possible outcomes of this market is every home has a cpu installed that helps coordinate and run all the systems in sync.  Or the items come with their own processors and do the thinking and the iphones give the directions.  Give me a good reason to have a pc when I have an iphone.  Other then gaming and professional applications.
    lets divide this subject into two different categories

    Productivity

    Entertainment.

    Productivity: At work I have two 21" monitors and so does everyone else here. My machine can keep up with my demands at work but I have some co-workers in which their machine which is only 3 years old can not. How are we going to use tablets and phone to do our production work?

    Entertainment: I have a Galaxy Note 4 and I have a tablet. Netier of those comes light years close to the entertainment value my PC has been given me. Keyboard, mouse, large 21 inch high resolution monitor and most importantly a GPU and a PCU that is of good quality but 3 years old barely able anymore to withstand the latest games I want to play.

    explain
    Like I said.  Outside of professional use and gaming what is the purpose of a pc?  You know i can talk to an iphone and it does what I say.  I can't talk to my pc without first programming a bunch of stuff.  You also know I can make my iphone send a signal to my television and see everything on that television screen.  The fact that you are still using a mouse and keyboard to do simple commands is archaic.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    filmoret said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    are people in this thread seriously thinking mobile can make the PC no longer relevant.

    That is pretty funny
    There is no reason it can't.  Possible outcomes of this market is every home has a cpu installed that helps coordinate and run all the systems in sync.  Or the items come with their own processors and do the thinking and the iphones give the directions.  Give me a good reason to have a pc when I have an iphone.  Other then gaming and professional applications.
    Keyboard and mouse
    duel 28" screens
    2TB of data storage
    7.1 dolby surround sound
    USB ports
    The ability to watch a film while gaming
    The ability to work on my business spreadsheets while gaming

    As for you comment "other then gaming and professional applications" just LOL. That is about as reasonable a restriction as saying name a good reason for owning a car other then travelling places and carrying your shopping from the store.



  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,862
    @blueturtle13  I think when it comes to the surface line it's a little murky.  Yes it is a tablet.. but it's also very much a laptop.  I really wanted to move to a SP4 i5 or greater for my video and image editing, including the sketching process as in the past I've used the Samsung Note line of tablets and phones to aid in sketches - but from what I've seen the SP4 is incredibly powerful.  I just don't know if it will replace my laptop for gaming as well despite the boost in graphics.


    Anyways -- PC gaming isn't all "PC gaming" as most people here probably think of it.  PC gaming could be someone playing a game on facebook,  or like people in my office do when they think they can get away with it -- play solitaire or freecell.  Technically any of that could be considered "PC Gaming"  even if you're playing farmville or whatever Facebook gamers are playing now.


    Like I mentioned in this thread before, what was considered "core" gameplay 10 years ago -- and even was was considered "industry standard software" in the business realm 10 years ago -- it can all be run from a phone today.

    Size isn't even really an issue with devices these days.. I mean the things you can do -- just with samsung in general.  You can stream your phone to your samsung smart tv if you wanted to.  Samsung purportedly is doubling down on the dual operations of their hardware with Laptop Docks for their note line phones, where basically your phone just docks into a laptop space and runs like a

    laptop.http://www.knowyourmobile.com/samsung/samsung-galaxy-note-5/23156/samsung-galaxy-note-6-release-date-specs-features-galaxy-s7-release-waterproofing


    On a separate note.. if "VR" is supposed to be so important in the future -- who's to say that a mobile device or a cell phone won't have the capabilities to run "core" or "complex" games while the screen is attached to your head and you're holding a controller.   Would a PC be necessary in that situation?

    Or like Hololens -- is that really considered a Mobile device?  Or will that be considered a PC because it runs a full version of Windows 10?



  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    SEANMCAD said:

    facts are facts my fellow nerds. don't look any further than the fact that PCs are being out paced by the maturing market of tablets/phones/consoles. Fun is fun no matter how they package it. New things can be learned.

    moreover, we get it, you refuse to leave your desktop...but just because you still wear the flock of seagull hair style doesn't mean you have the pulse of all the other gamers in the room.

    yeah I will be sure to tell every co-worker I ever have had in all the offices I have worked in over the past 20 years or so that they should be doing spreadsheet, visual studio, database and autocad work on a phone....lol
    Best make sure they are sitting before you tell them that :p
    The mobile market is really just the candy crush/facebook market, i doubt it will ever really progress beyond that. Smart phones, while handy gadgets, are not serious work tools, even notepads have limited functionality in that regard, as for the Surface Pro etc. they have only ever been the toys of the executive types, or salesmen with flashy presentations to make using powerpoint, not a serious tool even though they do have some degree of functionality, its still not enough to be taken seriously, for real functionality, if not capability to do the 'grunt' work, the only real option is really the Desktop systems, sitting at ease at a desk, with a full sized keyboard and mouse, and a 24'+ monitor, or whatever other ancilliary devices appropriate to whichever industry is involved, is not going to be superceded any time soon by a much smaller device with a tiny screen, and for CAD etc. i don't think even a 15' screen is considered acceptable except in an emergency.
    But the home user, if they aren't into gaming particularly, and just have something for chatting with friends on facebook etc, yeah a notepad/smartphone does the job, but as soon as they want to play a game for any length of time, its either a Console or a PC they are going to be using, though as someone said previously, a quick game of candy crush etc, while taking a dump for 5 minutes, yeah, the PC is no good for that, mobiles definitely win that battle.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    filmoret said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    are people in this thread seriously thinking mobile can make the PC no longer relevant.

    That is pretty funny
    There is no reason it can't.  Possible outcomes of this market is every home has a cpu installed that helps coordinate and run all the systems in sync.  Or the items come with their own processors and do the thinking and the iphones give the directions.  Give me a good reason to have a pc when I have an iphone.  Other then gaming and professional applications.
    Keyboard and mouse
    duel 28" screens
    2TB of data storage
    7.1 dolby surround sound
    USB ports
    The ability to watch a film while gaming
    The ability to work on my business spreadsheets while gaming

    As for you comment "other then gaming and professional applications" just LOL. That is about as reasonable a restriction as saying name a good reason for owning a car other then travelling places and carrying your shopping from the store.



    What you are mentioning only about 2% of the current market uses.  Why are you not understanding this?  You using a computer for something that 98% of the people out there do not use and somehow you think that will keep the market going?  Its more like asking people other then mud races why own a truck?  Yes there's a million reasons but you are the person who wants it for a mud race and well that is a bad reason.  Because users don't want it for that reason only someone like you.  Gotta face reality that you are in a very small minority for the pc and well numbers sell computers not small minorities.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,862
    filmoret said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    are people in this thread seriously thinking mobile can make the PC no longer relevant.

    That is pretty funny
    There is no reason it can't.  Possible outcomes of this market is every home has a cpu installed that helps coordinate and run all the systems in sync.  Or the items come with their own processors and do the thinking and the iphones give the directions.  Give me a good reason to have a pc when I have an iphone.  Other then gaming and professional applications.
    Keyboard and mouse
    duel 28" screens
    2TB of data storage
    7.1 dolby surround sound
    USB ports
    The ability to watch a film while gaming
    The ability to work on my business spreadsheets while gaming

    As for you comment "other then gaming and professional applications" just LOL. That is about as reasonable a restriction as saying name a good reason for owning a car other then travelling places and carrying your shopping from the store.



    why is that not possible via mobile devices in the near future? 

    Have you seen what Hololens can do?  You literally could have dual virtual screens in your field of view at any time. Hell you could have 10 Screens if you wanted to.  

     Surround sound for a headset. is completely possible. 

    USB ports are completely possible too, but no doubt bluetooth would end up being preferred for wireless capabilities. 

    And you could still potentially use a K&M.   


    In some ways, you could do this utilizing mobile phones and VR too... maybe not to the same degree or with as little latency as you could with AR and hololens.



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