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So many MMOs, growing yet people screams MMOs are dead

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  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,588
    MMO's are not dying but they are seeing a doctor on a regular basis. I think MMMO's have ObamaCare and with rising premium costs no wonder their unhappy.

    Just kidding...
     
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Maquiame said:
    Gdemami said:
    Loke666 said:
    So things are hardly as good as we wish they should be
    ...just a matter of unreasonable expectations.

    Your very post is proof of that :-P
    Unreasonable expectations? Where is the evolution of old mmorpgs like Asheron's Call, UO and EQ? Where are the devs that are out there saying  "We want to be UO/Asheron's Call/Ryzom/SWG 2016 with all the bells and whistles that come with being made now. We don't want to rebuild the wheel, we want to turn the wheel into hover wheels. We want to turn the skateboard into hoverboards."

    "We want to make something new, that has the great stuff of the old days, plus 10"

    "Right now, we are trying to make the mmorpg version of 5th edition Dungeons and Dragons."

    I call shenanigans. Unrealistic expecations my ass. More like lack of vision.
    It takes real money to get that, so I don't think the problem is Devs. Publishers/investors just aren't buying into this sort of design or R&D in the west...So we're left with devs going to kickstarter, or trying other crowdfunded means to an end. SO whatever expectations one has is a moot point from the get go. IF the money isn't there, the game will not be either.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • vandal5627vandal5627 Member UncommonPosts: 788
    edited April 2016

    As is with anything, once something gets saturated, you find other means.  Publishers are smart to move onto other less saturated markets.  MMORPGs aren't dead or is coming close to dying, it's just not worth the risk the huge investment it requires.
  • DeivosDeivos Member EpicPosts: 3,692
    Axehilt said:
    It is only through the slumps that the genre evolves.  That last slump evolved the gene into a more arcade style with less depth and more twitchiness.  I'm hoping this latest slump will force at least some segments of the industry to try something different, but still be detailed and designed for the long term and not the short.
    How much did Starcraft 2 evolve the genre?  It was a great game and extremely well designed, but it didn't evolve things.  It was one of the few major releases in a long drought of RTS titles.
    And it was also not an outstanding title in any regard. Riding on the popularity of the developer, the title's name, and pushing it hard into tournament play is what gave it any market to be successful in. If your point was that the only way to survive with a lack of evolution is to shill out hard, then sure.

    Otherwise, we look to how RTS games have tried to push other elements like the semi-sim RTS titles that have cropped up in the wake of the survival game genre.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,382
    Gdemami said:
    Kyleran said:
    With the recent upheavals from WWBee and the release of the new Citadel content the gaming population is on an uptick.

    5 years from now will still be going strong, and you'll keep telling folks it's dying.

    The circle of life.
    Yeah, we here that all the time, however concurrent user count tells different story...
    Just checked, clear uptick past 2 months. What's it like to be wrong so often?

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 618
    The problem is people got used to the quality, polish and scope of huge budget titles.
    They also realized "Big budget comes with downsides". (being watered down in order to actually reach an audience wide enough to warrant that big budget.)

    The trick seems to be to accept a bit lower quality and scope and being happy with smaller scope games that actually have the luxury of targeting specific tastes.
    That's where the market seems to be heading anyway while the masses are off to the next new hot genres.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,742
    Kyleran said:
    Just checked, clear uptick past 2 months. What's it like to be wrong so often?
    I don't know, you tell me...
  • josko9josko9 Member RarePosts: 577
    Maquiame said:
    Years ago there were

    City of Heroes
    WoW
    FFXI
    EQ2
    Ryzom
    Guild Wars 2 was about to drop

    These games were all out at the same time, and at the states they were at then they were all pretty good or decent, in fact I didn't have time to play all of them back then. Are they still out there now? Yes, many of them are either too old, changed too much, or in the case of CoH not out anymore. There was a time I could play two really good mmorpgs at once. That isn't the case anymore.

    Even stuff that didn't make it was great. I enjoyed the hell out of Tabula Rasa


    I don't like the genre now. Sure you have FFXIV out there and BDO isn't half bad, but I don't care for the current state. And no I don't like TESO, the game is shit and FFXIV while good is so damn straightforward with its lack of horizontal progression that its nothing but a one track gear grinder, which I absolutely despise. Explorers like myself are completely shut out.

    My opinion of course.
    ESO is by far the best MMO of all time for explorers. It's also adapting the horizontal progression. 

    It might share a few things with other themeparks, but everything is done on a much higher quality. Not to mention there are a plenty of sandboxy features as well. + on top of all that, the game is very non-linear.
  • DelCabonDelCabon Member UncommonPosts: 257
    The genre has definitely evolved over the years. Just look on Steam and its clear that using the loosest definition of an MMO there are far more choices and more players now than at any time in the past.

    From a very personal standpoint I bemoan the lack of a modern EQ or AC and am hopeful that someone someday will fill the void. I am currently playing ESO but I can go weeks without the motivation or need to talk in guild chat and I am in 5 of them. In this sense my own limited MMORPG life seems to have lapsed for the time being. I still enjoy ESO but more as an rpg that I happen to play online. I used to be a fairly hardcore LOTRO player but they have since espoused a wholly challenge-free solo friendly format. 

    On the other hand I have found a few indie "MMO"s (so they say) with some interesting game-play elements that have been affordably entertaining. So there's that. Who knows, maybe one of them will break through some day and give me a reason to group again.

    At least the genre is far from dead even if it doesn't exactly suit my current preferences.

    Del Cabon
    A US Army ('Just Cause') Vet and MMORPG Native formerly of Trinsic, Norath and Dereth. Currently playing LOTRO. 

  • TzavokTzavok Member UncommonPosts: 52
    edited April 2016
    I still remember that time, i was 11 years old i think, was playing Dota with some RL friends at some cyber-cafe, then i saw this guy playing WoW, i found it to be pretty cool, i mean, the guy was controlling his character in first person, in an open world, damn that was new for me (yes, i started late in this gnere). So i asked him, what was that game's name, he answered World of Warcraft, a first person game based on Warcraft, my favorite game at that time, i asked him if i could play it after he was over. He created a character for me, on his account, i remember it was an Undead Rogue, it was so fun, killing those zombies, talking to these npcs, i was so immersed, died at least 20 times before reaching Brill (second town for undeads), then something weird happened, i found a npc that moved different than the others, i followed him and... he talked! and then i found out, it was an online game, i knew that day that MMORPGs were my thing, i made so many new friends, some of them became RL friends, hell, i met my girlfriend through WoW, we have a beautiful daughter.

    I'll always remember the first time we killed the Lich King with my guild, the screaming in TeamSpeak was insane, I'll never feel that immersed again, i know it, maybe i just burned out, maybe the gnere isn't the same, no clue, i just know i'll never feel like that again.


  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    DelCabon said:
    The genre has definitely evolved over the years. Just look on Steam and its clear that using the loosest definition of an MMO there are far more choices and more players now than at any time in the past.



    can't blame the industry want more businesses, and player want more choices. 
  • CoatedCoated Member UncommonPosts: 477
    Dead may not necessarily mean that there aren't any players. They could be referring to other things. That is enough to refer to the MMORPG industry as 'dead'. Again, not lacking players, but lacking...

    innovation, vision, talent. Lacking the ability to take a great idea and turn it into a great product. I can't think of any MMORPG released this last decade that even had a great idea to begin with. Which is probably why the products have been lack luster.

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,413
    They're screaming MMOs' are dead because what is currently being released and passed off as MMO's aren't MMOs.  They're single player RPG's with chat boxes that everyone ignores.  They're as much of an MMO as CS:GO is.  Actually, they're less of an MMO than CS:GO is cus at least that requires teamwork and coordination.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Hrimnir said:
    They're screaming MMOs' are dead because what is currently being released and passed off as MMO's aren't MMOs.  They're single player RPG's with chat boxes that everyone ignores.  They're as much of an MMO as CS:GO is.  Actually, they're less of an MMO than CS:GO is cus at least that requires teamwork and coordination.
    hmm .. then MMO is expanded .. not dead. 
  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,413
    Why do you even bother responding Narius.  Seriously.  It's like talking to a parrot.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Xorian7Xorian7 Member UncommonPosts: 212

    As is with anything, once something gets saturated, you find other means.  Publishers are smart to move onto other less saturated markets.  MMORPGs aren't dead or is coming close to dying, it's just not worth the risk the huge investment it requires.
    I think this is just an easy cop out excuse for more get rich quick scheme mmos, it isnt risky because the numbers from subs in older mmos clearly show it can be done. Many are looking for something something way more meaningful, even allot of newer mmorpg players do you have any idea how many eq2 vets are still looking for a real mmo without pay to win crap?
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Maquiame said:
    Unreasonable expectations? Where is the evolution of old mmorpgs like Asheron's Call, UO and EQ? Where are the devs that are out there saying  "We want to be UO/Asheron's Call/Ryzom/SWG 2016 with all the bells and whistles that come with being made now. We don't want to rebuild the wheel, we want to turn the wheel into hover wheels. We want to turn the skateboard into hoverboards."

    "We want to make something new, that has the great stuff of the old days, plus 10"

    "Right now, we are trying to make the mmorpg version of 5th edition Dungeons and Dragons."

    I call shenanigans. Unrealistic expecations my ass. More like lack of vision.
    Something like that yes. However remaking older games with new graphics wouldn't be enough either. What made those games so great was the new thinking and pioneer spirit of them and that really is what we need in a few games.

    And yes, that might be unrealistic expectations but that just tell us that things aren't very well right now.
  • majimaji Member UncommonPosts: 2,091
    The current MMORPGs are crap compared to what other genres have to offer.
    Most of them are a boring pay2win grind on rails without choices, interesting questing or skills, and to 99% remakes of what has been done before. They're not made to last but to attract users and get as much of their cash as possible before said users realize how boring the game is.

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  • wiennaswiennas Member UncommonPosts: 67
    Well ''great'' mmos. How good or bad they are, depends from personal taste, some like pizza, others would never eat it. But certainly mmos have changed over the time. Maybe online simulations, strategic, sport or adventure games will offer in the future more fun for many ''older'' mmo population as mmos with current trend. We can take the new Tomb Raider for example. In essence such games already show a big potential to explore the environment in whole new lvl,...same as innovative or entertaining quests,....which is already now surprising that mmos to this day does not offer ''adventure style quests,'' but constantly the same brain-death kill mobs quests. Definitely it would cost a lot money & a lot of time to create such mmos, which is probably the main reason why mmos did not make over they years almost any progression, beside in graphic & combat animations,..there is some apparent ''freedom in sandbox'' mmo's, but they are actually more tuned version of thempark games, in the most important area (character development ) are virtually almost all new mmos a disaster, clone army instead of diversity.
  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    edited April 2016
    It's dead for people who liked the older mmorpg system:
    * Massive world where thousands interact with thousands of players in open seamless world.
    * Long progression rates
    * Grouping to survive (and take down bosses), make friends, play with people
    * Open free market where nothing is character bound and can be resold
    * Sub vs Pay 2 Win Cash Shops
    ... the list goes on.

    Basically what you think mmo's are now, are not really mmo's. That is why people say the genre is dead.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • User836User836 Member UncommonPosts: 117
    edited April 2016
    It's not like they're dead, it's more like... they were once young, bright, healthy, social and outgoing but then they grew up to be dumb, greedy, misanthropic and lazy.
  • SkiltySkilty Member UncommonPosts: 3
    edited April 2016
    My first MMORPG was Asherons Call on dial up, progressed to AC2 which was shuttered, DDO, EQ2 and then finally LotRO.  I never really got into WoW.

    But one thing these games had in common was that you had to group to progress and get those boss drops.  There were no cash shops etc, if you wanted to play you had to buy the game and then sub as well.

    You had to spend hours grinding for deeds etc, being able to use your first legendary item or entering Moria for the first time was actually a group activity and you got that virtual pat on the back and welcome to the club "feel".

    For me at least the genre has changed, I recently described "MMO" games today as the mobile phone generation, pick it up for 10 minutes and put it back down.

    In my opinion a "true" MMORPG requires time and commitment to progress.  Raids had to have a certain make up of classes and we all had a speciality, it would take months to master your class and a raid would be akin to a ballet.  With the new crop of games it feels like it is dumbed down to a degree, they appeal to the age of instant gratification or encourage people to  simply throw money at the cash shop to progress quicker.  That approach just doesn't work for me, there is no "reward".

    Because of this I think a lot of guilds/kinships also seem to be struggling as communities fragment due to the sheer volume of games available.

    All just my opinion having played MMORPGs 1999 and been an officer in a kinship for some years :)


    Post edited by Skilty on
  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    Is the vision of a game that can replace your life entirely dead?
    Is the vision of a game that you can buy once and keep playing for decades dead?

    The question here seems to be "is that how you defined MMORPG?"

    Evolve or die, relics.
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,000
    Is the vision of a game that can replace your life entirely dead?
    Is the vision of a game that you can buy once and keep playing for decades dead?

    The question here seems to be "is that how you defined MMORPG?"

    Evolve or die, relics.
    Evolve to the new race mean dead of old one , that's why we called human instead of chimpanzee .
    Though someone prefer to be called chimpanzee instead of human . Cause .. evolved chimpanzee still chimpanzee ... ? and MOBA still MMO ... screw the logic here .

    I defined MMORPG by what it name mean , massively multiplayer online , and RPG . Left alone the online + RPG , the massively multiplayer part's mean pretty clean here ... unless someone want to screw the logic .






  • ArmendiusArmendius Member UncommonPosts: 119
    iixviiiix said:
    Is the vision of a game that can replace your life entirely dead?
    Is the vision of a game that you can buy once and keep playing for decades dead?

    The question here seems to be "is that how you defined MMORPG?"

    Evolve or die, relics.
    Evolve to the new race mean dead of old one , that's why we called human instead of chimpanzee .
    Though someone prefer to be called chimpanzee instead of human . Cause .. evolved chimpanzee still chimpanzee ... ? and MOBA still MMO ... screw the logic here .

    I defined MMORPG by what it name mean , massively multiplayer online , and RPG . Left alone the online + RPG , the massively multiplayer part's mean pretty clean here ... unless someone want to screw the logic .






    What the Human and chimpanzee share in common is that they like to be challanged with new things.

    I think that feeling is what defines MMORPG to become dead in its feeling.
    It often feel the same in the end.
    Its just every human or chimpanzee react different to it.

    Also both of them express their feeling to others.
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