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God-Mode Hack Possible, Daum and Pearl Abyss Reacting

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  • cronius77cronius77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,649
    Shinobe said:








    The game doesn't need a better "anti-cheat system". It needs to get core game mechanics OUT of the client and on to the server!





    I'm glad I don't care about this stuff. I'm still enjoying the game.






    Well put. This is bad game design pure and simple. Camelot Unchained is doing their engine right so crap like this doesn't happen.



    You know that on several "Hack" Sites the package system of CU is already dismantled, right ?

    You will face the same results as here, not that bad, but they can Workaround CDs, Speed and teleport hack.

    Of course Daum need to improve the codebase, but its the asslings that use the hacks that should get blamed. Even in EQ you could use speed hacks, teleports and my favorite, back this days EQUlti, a program they use for CU as well btw. Where you can see the Mobs on your Radar, the pathing and the loot they have.

    Before you say.. oh you are a hacker? no, i am not, but i am a dev and interessted in the code. As some of the hacks are very good designed.

    Report as many cheater you see, don´t get on the same lvl and help the community.

    sure you can blame the hackers all you want but human nature is going to lead to cheaters especially in E sport style pvp games or domination. Good companies who do not cut corners plan for stuff like this and if shit happens anyways they still get it fixed asap. DAOC had radar hacks and warhammer online had warbuddy so obviously no company is perfect and can make their games 100% hack free. But they can also be diligent as much as possible and not let this issue linger very long either or their credibility is out the window. Part of the reason blizzard caught so much slack still to this day over bots is because they let it run rampant for so long that no one took them serious. Radar hackers in DAOC were reported and banned right away as soon as evidence was presented, same with warbuddy users. But my point is blaming the hackers isnt going to solve the problem, people are going to cheat its human nature it happens daily outside of games with crime, but pushing the company for a fast response will help the entire problem.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,047
    Quizzical said:
    It's possible to fix it.  Of course it's possible to fix it.  But trying to change fundamental parts of the game engine can easily lead to a few rounds of completely game-breaking bugs before they get it right.  That's fine when alpha is still a year away, but something you don't try after launch unless you have a real crisis.

    Of course, if the programmers actually working on the project know how to fix it, then why didn't they do it right the first time?  A lot of bugs can happen as little mistakes in code that is mostly right, but not having the server verify that cheats aren't happening is not a little mistake.

    In other news, banning really won't get you very far.  Sure, you can manually see and ban the people who give themselves infinite health.  But what about the people who only give themselves an extra 50% health and mana?  That doesn't jump out at your opponents so much as an obvious, visible cheat, but the effects of it can still be pretty game-breaking.
    I suspect its quite possible to create algorithms to programmatically monitor information coming from the client and identify responses outside of the norm.

    It's done all the time in the financial world where spending or deposit activity varies in terms of size, frequency, source, location etc, is identified, flagged and investigated.

    Thing is, it isn't cheap to do this, and I can't see PA/Daum spending a lot of money to prevent in game cheating, like you noted, they could have already done so if they had the will.

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  • DaemonweaverDaemonweaver Member UncommonPosts: 123
    This is one reason why I have come to prefer PvE to PvP in MMOs. I am not the best PvPer but I can hold my own and I really enjoy a good fight against an good player (don't mind dying to a skilful respectful player). However modern PvP in MMOs just seems frequented by either, cheats, hackers or anally retentive trolls and for me this has spoilt my whole enjoyment of PvP.
     I am really enjoying BDO at the moment and have yet to do any PvP despite being lvl50, just hope a PKing hacker will not ruin my enjoyment.
  • ApexDescendApexDescend Member UncommonPosts: 27
    edited April 2016
    look at all these people pretending they have any knowledge about programming and game design... if its very obvious having HP server-sided, why dont u ask them why they did it before assuming and complaining and pretending u know it better than the devs. I really doubt the developers were unaware of the possible issues and I doubt even more strongly that the developers are dumber than you guys...
  • ApexDescendApexDescend Member UncommonPosts: 27

    MyNameIsV said:

    @Realizer and @DMKano

    Sorry, but I used to blog for joystiq, and plagiarism pisses me off.



    All I want is a link. A forum post, or anything. Can anyone provide me one? I am providing one that supports my argument right here: http://mmogfails.blogspot.com/

    Can anyone else provide some place that beat him to it?



    I check reddit and the official forums constantly. I am an avid poster on both. Never saw such a complete list of hackable things being mentioned before mmogfails.




    it would be healthy if you stopped caring that much...
  • Oije64Oije64 Member UncommonPosts: 10
    Had no troubles with cheaters so far. Maybe because of being a cook and not a fighter. Anyway it is proofen again that some player were a pain in the ass.
  • DXSinsDXSins Member UncommonPosts: 322
    DMKano said:
    And people harped on Shadowbane and ArcheAge having hacks, which they did but this is on a different level.

    I am not aware of any major MMO where HP, mana and ability cooldown were not server side enforced.

    Black Desert really went into a whole new territory here with trusting client on everything, it's really mind boggling that this moon sized gaping exploit  was deemed ok.

    Last night my group ran into 3 different players blatantly exploiting - the funny thing was 2 of them actually tried killing each other at one point not realizing they were both hacking.... (all 3 reported)

    My guild leader basically left the game last night due to sad state of PvP

    Me, I am in this for the long haul, so I am sticking around exploits and all.


    This needs to be fixed IN CODD , Xigncode3 and other 3rd party tools are completely worthless. 



    Yea i wondering if this is specific to the EU/NA client or if possible on KR/RU too? Because the months playing KR back in its open beta, nothing like this was present and client side hacks would be very present if possible at the time. (I remember all the KR Archeage hack videos long before its local release... BDO KR had none of that).

    From that time to after the release after the RU release was the first time any sort of hack popped up and that was the AH one.

    Seems like they gone full retarded with EU/NA client and turned it into another Archeage (i already decided not to play because the more limited energy system vs. KR system)... reasons keep piling up why i made such a good decision to keep away from our local version.
  • ReizlaReizla Member RarePosts: 4,079
    MrSyn said:
    From that time to after the release after the RU release was the first time any sort of hack popped up and that was the AH one.
    There you have the problem... Russian players tend to hack each and every game they can to get an advantage over an other player. With that, Russian players are also the ones responsible for the RMT in MMOs these days (done from the exploits of hacks they use). Which is also why I tend to play more on US servers than EU servers because of latency issues RU will have on US :D

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  • BitterClingerBitterClinger Member UncommonPosts: 438
    look at all these people pretending they have any knowledge about programming and game design... if its very obvious having HP server-sided, why dont u ask them why they did it before assuming and complaining and pretending u know it better than the devs. I really doubt the developers were unaware of the possible issues and I doubt even more strongly that the developers are dumber than you guys...

    "All these people"... Well, I've been developing client-server (and a few years of thin client) applications, as a full-time profession, since 1991. I started writing applications for SunOS 4.1.1 (pre solaris), and I now write SOA applications for Win-clients.

    But, my programming experience has nothing to do with this. This isn't the first Korean MMO to have this problem. This isn't even the first Korean MMO released in NA THIS year with this problem. However, if it truly turns out that all these various game mechanics have no server-side check, BDO will be the most egregious MMO released in... many many years.
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,172
    Game was out 2-3 years in the east and its JUST now being brought up? lol
  • chaztechchaztech Member CommonPosts: 7
    When I come on every day and start blocking gold spammers every fucking day. I just didn't believe they are gonna do anything. Nothing at all.
  • RendolpheRendolphe Member UncommonPosts: 8
    I play everyday and never encounter one hacker.

    I never heard one of my guildmate complain about hack.

    This seem isolated case IMO.
  • ReizlaReizla Member RarePosts: 4,079
    chaztech said:
    When I come on every day and start blocking gold spammers every fucking day. I just didn't believe they are gonna do anything. Nothing at all.
    No problems on that front for me. Use the chat filter from the ESC menu and define a couple of common words ('brands') they use and your RMT SPAM will be a problem of the past ;)

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  • TheOctagonTheOctagon Member UncommonPosts: 408
    You mean the hacks they've been warned about since closed beta? The ones they said didn't exist? The ones that had videos on YouTube from the russian servers? Those hacks?

    Deny, deny, deny. Then when you get caught, look like a deer caught in headlights and swear you didn't know it was happening but you'll fix it A.S.A.P.

    Same shits happening over on The Division.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    DMKano said:
    Rendolphe said:
    I play everyday and never encounter one hacker.

    I never heard one of my guildmate complain about hack.

    This seem isolated case IMO.

    Rich kids in a gated community have never seen a homeless person. It seems like an isolated case to them.
    Most cases of hacking in every game is pretty much "isolated"... I don't see why the case would be different here. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    DMKano said:
    Rendolphe said:
    I play everyday and never encounter one hacker.

    I never heard one of my guildmate complain about hack.

    This seem isolated case IMO.

    Rich kids in a gated community have never seen a homeless person. It seems like an isolated case to them.
    Yes, and some people see conspiracies everywhere.

    That said, I have no idea what BDO is like in this case - but it wouldn't be the first time a "perceived" issue is blown out of proportion.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    DKLond said:
    DMKano said:
    Rendolphe said:
    I play everyday and never encounter one hacker.

    I never heard one of my guildmate complain about hack.

    This seem isolated case IMO.

    Rich kids in a gated community have never seen a homeless person. It seems like an isolated case to them.
    Yes, and some people see conspiracies everywhere.

    That said, I have no idea what BDO is like in this case - but it wouldn't be the first time a "perceived" issue is blown out of proportion.
    Yeah, yeah, hacking and cheating is all blown out of proportion, lol

    That's why so many developers regularly report that they've banned tens of thousands of player accounts. They haven't really, but they need to counter all those false "perceptions" that hackers and cheaters actually exist...

    Just like nobody really buys all those "mmo golds" offered for sale by the giant RMT companies...

    And nobody actually pays for all the third-party "helper" programs that are offered for sale on the internet...
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    edited April 2016
    DKLond said:
    DMKano said:
    Rendolphe said:
    I play everyday and never encounter one hacker.

    I never heard one of my guildmate complain about hack.

    This seem isolated case IMO.

    Rich kids in a gated community have never seen a homeless person. It seems like an isolated case to them.
    Yes, and some people see conspiracies everywhere.

    That said, I have no idea what BDO is like in this case - but it wouldn't be the first time a "perceived" issue is blown out of proportion.
    Yeah, yeah, hacking and cheating is all blown out of proportion, lol

    That's why so many developers regularly report that they've banned tens of thousands of player accounts. They haven't really, but they need to counter all those false "perceptions" that hackers and cheaters actually exist...

    Just like nobody really buys all those "mmo golds" offered for sale by the giant RMT companies...

    And nobody actually pays for all the third-party "helper" programs that are offered for sale on the internet...
    You're not listening.

    I'm saying it can go both ways. Unless we gain access to their metrics or they openly reveal the extent of the issue, we can't actually know how bad it is.

    What I do know, though, is that most gamers suck at losing or feeling left out. One of the most common responses from a loser is "you cheated".
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    DKLond said:
    ....

    I'm saying it can go both ways. Unless we gain access to their metrics or they openly reveal the extent of the issue, we can't actually know how bad it is.

    ...
    We will never be given access to their metrics. And if they DID ever reveal them, it would only be because they had no hacking problem, in which case nobody would believe them, lol

    All I'm saying is if there are a vast volume of cheating methods and tools available on the internet, it's not unreasonable to believe that many of them will be used.

    Given that the supply of "cheat enablers" seems to be growing constantly, it's also not unreasonable to assume that cheating is also increasing in frequency... 
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    DKLond said:
    ....

    I'm saying it can go both ways. Unless we gain access to their metrics or they openly reveal the extent of the issue, we can't actually know how bad it is.

    ...
    We will never be given access to their metrics. And if they DID ever reveal them, it would only be because they had no hacking problem, in which case nobody would believe them, lol

    All I'm saying is if there are a vast volume of cheating methods and tools available on the internet, it's not unreasonable to believe that many of them will be used.

    Given that the supply of "cheat enablers" seems to be growing constantly, it's also not unreasonable to assume that cheating is also increasing in frequency... 
    I don't believe I've said it's unreasonable to believe cheating will happen.

    I'm simply saying we can't know how big a problem it is, and that it's a bit cheap to apply the "rich vs poor" analogy when someone says they haven't experienced hacking themselves.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    DKLond said:
    DKLond said:
    ....

    I'm saying it can go both ways. Unless we gain access to their metrics or they openly reveal the extent of the issue, we can't actually know how bad it is.

    ...
    We will never be given access to their metrics. And if they DID ever reveal them, it would only be because they had no hacking problem, in which case nobody would believe them, lol

    All I'm saying is if there are a vast volume of cheating methods and tools available on the internet, it's not unreasonable to believe that many of them will be used.

    Given that the supply of "cheat enablers" seems to be growing constantly, it's also not unreasonable to assume that cheating is also increasing in frequency... 
    I don't believe I've said it's unreasonable to believe cheating will happen.

    I'm simply saying we can't know how big a problem it is, and that it's a bit cheap to apply the "rich vs poor" analogy when someone says they haven't experienced hacking themselves.
    Agreed on the "rich vs poor" analogy, that one has far too many emotional triggers, lol

    It's quite possible that someone who doesn't PVP in BDO will not experience the cheating. By all accounts, there are many players taking their time enjoying the varied activities and leveling at a leisurely pace, so perceptions of the game will be inclined to vary dramatically.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    DMKano said:
    DKLond said:
    DMKano said:
    Rendolphe said:
    I play everyday and never encounter one hacker.

    I never heard one of my guildmate complain about hack.

    This seem isolated case IMO.

    Rich kids in a gated community have never seen a homeless person. It seems like an isolated case to them.
    Yes, and some people see conspiracies everywhere.

    That said, I have no idea what BDO is like in this case - but it wouldn't be the first time a "perceived" issue is blown out of proportion.

    There is nothing perceived here - there are streams and videos of clear as day proof of hacking. There are sites that sell the hack. Daum has acknowledged the problem.

    It's as real as it gets.
    He didn't say it's not real he said "blown out of proportion" which these things usually are. IF there's a hack or cheat, all of a sudden "everyone is using it and the game is ruined". That's simply how people react to these things. Now anytime someone loses, the opponent must have been "hacking"... Cuz I'm gooderz.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • RPGMASTERGAMERRPGMASTERGAMER Member UncommonPosts: 516
    edited April 2016
    Distopia said:
    DMKano said:
    DKLond said:
    DMKano said:
    Rendolphe said:
    I play everyday and never encounter one hacker.

    I never heard one of my guildmate complain about hack.

    This seem isolated case IMO.

    Rich kids in a gated community have never seen a homeless person. It seems like an isolated case to them.
    Yes, and some people see conspiracies everywhere.

    That said, I have no idea what BDO is like in this case - but it wouldn't be the first time a "perceived" issue is blown out of proportion.

    There is nothing perceived here - there are streams and videos of clear as day proof of hacking. There are sites that sell the hack. Daum has acknowledged the problem.

    It's as real as it gets.
    He didn't say it's not real he said "blown out of proportion" which these things usually are. IF there's a hack or cheat, all of a sudden "everyone is using it and the game is ruined". That's simply how people react to these things. Now anytime someone loses, the opponent must have been "hacking"... Cuz I'm gooderz.
    nothing blown out of proportion that you like it or not, and now because it all over the new everywhere everyone know about this haxk and go download it

    it would be better when something like that happen to just tell no one and WORK ON IT BEFORE.

    just for fun do you want me to tell you how many time a version of this hax was downloaded ?
    ( i have google for fun , i dont even play anymore )

    was more that 6000, wonder how many cheater are ingame huh??? im guessing you can find the hax others place too.

    no matter how you try to put it, it will ruin the game, just like the gold exploit in neverwinter ruined the game for a very long time ( if you want know everything way overpriced still, they are still not done with it lol... )

    peoples can use it very smart too, infine mana , kill mobs, level all his character max level, grind some places

    mostly the one who will get banned are the one running everywhere killing everyone...

    that you like it or not, that the reality, this game ruined
  • RendolpheRendolphe Member UncommonPosts: 8
    DMKano said:
    Rendolphe said:
    I play everyday and never encounter one hacker.

    I never heard one of my guildmate complain about hack.

    This seem isolated case IMO.

    Rich kids in a gated community have never seen a homeless person. It seems like an isolated case to them.

    Did you personally encounter an hacker in BDO?
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Distopia said:

    He didn't say it's not real he said "blown out of proportion" which these things usually are. IF there's a hack or cheat, all of a sudden "everyone is using it and the game is ruined". That's simply how people react to these things. Now anytime someone loses, the opponent must have been "hacking"... Cuz I'm gooderz.
    nothing blown out of proportion that you like it or not, and now because it all over the new everywhere everyone know about this haxk and go download it

    it would be better when something like that happen to just tell no one and WORK ON IT BEFORE.

    just for fun do you want me to tell you how many time a version of this hax was downloaded ?
    ( i have google for fun , i dont even play anymore )

    was more that 6000, wonder how many cheater are ingame huh??? im guessing you can find the hax others place too.

    no matter how you try to put it, it will ruin the game, just like the gold exploit in neverwinter ruined the game for a very long time ( if you want know everything way overpriced still, they are still not done with it lol... )

    peoples can use it very smart too, infine mana , kill mobs, level all his character max level, grind some places

    mostly the one who will get banned are the one running everywhere killing everyone...

    that you like it or not, that the reality, this game ruined
    That very well may be, I won't take forum reactions as the proof of that though. Yet I must ask what in my point has anything to do with whether, "i like it or not"? What I said essentially applies to all games (more pertinent being..the reactions that come in regard to bad news or serious issues), not just with this game.. People in groups simply have a tendency to sensationalize an issue, that's just the way it is, you're doing it now. 

    Like your point about NW, if the game was truly "ruined" it wouldn't be in operation today. It recovered, so could BD. Whether you "like it or not"..


    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


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