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If you could combine the best of any two MMOs - what games would you pick?

DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
An open question - and I'm not here to dictate the answers.

Just pick two MMOs and give us your opinion of why a combination of their best would yield a great game.
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Comments

  • vveaver_onlinevveaver_online Member UncommonPosts: 436
    edited April 2016

    Take almost all mechanics from Ultima Online and combine it with the combat system from blade and soul. *edit* Add the space expansion from SWG also. *EDIT* dmKano, of course you need to keep swg's resource collecting crafting and management too! FrankenOHmmO's ftw =P

    Post edited by vveaver_online on
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    edited April 2016
    DMKano said:
    Here we go again - FrankenMMO, the abomination 

    I'd combine LoL instanced arenas with Black Desert Open world and then Id put in WoW dungeon finder and add tanks from WoT. But the actual gameplay would be a card game like Hearthstone.

    Hint - game features don't exist in a vacuum, SWGs crafting was so good because the entire rest of the game was built to support it and make it work. 

    You can't mix and match best features from MMOS like lego pieces without considering how the rest of the game design made each feature work so well. 





    Please point out where I've said the word "features".

    If you don't think you can take anything from one game and combine it with something else from another game, that's cool - but I don't agree.
  • fs23otmfs23otm Member RarePosts: 506
    BDO open world and life skills...

    EQ PVE content focus...

    nuff said...
  • DeathengerDeathenger Member UncommonPosts: 880
    edited April 2016
    Come on, EvE and WOW hands down! You take the pvp, politics, regional control and the danger of traveling and moving goods from EvE with the amazing pve and the high fantasy of WOW and you'll have the greatest game in the history of online gaming!

    Edit - I forgot to add the crafting/market in EvE too!
     
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    fs23otm said:
    BDO open world and life skills...

    EQ PVE content focus...

    nuff said...
    Hmm, that does sound pretty cool :)
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    Come on, EvE and WOW hands down! You take the pvp, politics, regional control and the danger of traveling and moving goods with the amazing pve and the high fantasy of WOW and you'll have the greatest game in the history of online gaming!
    EVE mechanics in Azeroth? That works for me ;)
  • LithuanianLithuanian Member UncommonPosts: 540
    Lord of the rings
    +
    Istaria:Chronicles of the Gifted

    Lotro's nice, warm world with lots of NPCs you could like, share their loves/hates - and Istaria's "open society" where you could build little towns or aid others, multi-class crafting and maintain 100% player-based economy.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Tera's combat combined with GW2's everything else.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member RarePosts: 565
    Pathfinder Online & Star Citizen.
  • CopperfieldCopperfield Member RarePosts: 654
    darkfall and wurm online
  • DeltoisDeltois Member UncommonPosts: 384

    DAOC and FFXI.


  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    DMKano said:
    EQ1 and RocketLeague
    That bored, eh?
  • st4t1ckst4t1ck Member UncommonPosts: 768
    I would mix ffxi almost everything about it with the graphics and some of the solo ability of ffxiv.  Still mostly grouping but would mind a little flexibility for leveling
  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    Alpha ArcheAge and FFXIV:ARR

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • BitterClingerBitterClinger Member UncommonPosts: 439
    DKLond said:
    An open question - and I'm not here to dictate the answers.

    Just pick two MMOs and give us your opinion of why a combination of their best would yield a great game.

    Neverwinter Nights (not Neverwinter) and Armored Warfare (PVE Missions).

    I would love to play a lobby based character-building online RPG with persistent town. I think the right developer could make an awesome game.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited April 2016
    BitterClinger said:
    Neverwinter Nights (not Neverwinter) and Armored Warfare (PVE Missions).

    I would love to play a lobby based character-building online RPG with persistent town. I think the right developer could make an awesome game.
    Guild Wars 1, Dungeon & Dragons Online, Warframe, DCUO, Marvel Heroes Online, Skyforge...there is plenty with similar concept.
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    I'd love to see the design of DDO combined with the engine of The Division.
  • MortoriousMortorious Member UncommonPosts: 166
    Elder scroll online & Dungeons and Dragons online

    Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online
    MMORPG experiences:EQ2, AoC(pre f2p), Lotro,GW1,DDO, Aion,WoW( stop with wotlk),Allods, GW2
    Eu,War, Secret World

    Waiting On: WoD Sometime Maybe: Elder Scrolls MMO, Might and Magic

  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    edited April 2016
    DMKano said:
    DKLond said:
    DMKano said:
    Here we go again - FrankenMMO, the abomination 

    I'd combine LoL instanced arenas with Black Desert Open world and then Id put in WoW dungeon finder and add tanks from WoT. But the actual gameplay would be a card game like Hearthstone.

    Hint - game features don't exist in a vacuum, SWGs crafting was so good because the entire rest of the game was built to support it and make it work. 

    You can't mix and match best features from MMOS like lego pieces without considering how the rest of the game design made each feature work so well. 





    Please point out where I've said the word "features".

    If you don't think you can take anything from one game and combine it with something else from another game, that's cool - but I don't agree.
    Well just read the replies and you'll see exactly what I am talking about. "Best of any two MMO" - players are going to think about features - you didn't say it, but that's what players always think about - crafing system from game X, combat from game Y ... players think in terms of game features as if they were isolated parts, like lego pieces you could take from one game and snap them into another game.

     Bottom line - game features are all interconnected to make the game as a whole work, this idea about taking "best of any MMO" is fundamentally flawed.

    I mean sure - it's a fun "theorycraft" exercise - but the likelihood of it working in actual reality without making major changes to actually make it work in a single cohesive game is zero.

     It's like combining the best out of living species - I'd like to have Elephant's strength, with cheetah's speed, Sloth claws, Octopus tentacles, turtle shell for protection and also Shark Jaws and might as well throw in the toughness and survivability of Tardigrades, and of course hummingbird wings.

     I know it's an extreme example - but from game design perspective, that's what is being done.
    As far as I can see, people think of different things. Some combine entire games - and some combine "content focus" with "combat system" - and so on.

    I mean, I'm sure you think you've discovered some great secret because you realise that you can't just cherry pick features without having an actual game as underpinning - but you haven't.

    This was an open question and it's nothing but a way to entertain cool notions that may or may not mean anything beyond that.

    But for what it's worth, I agree with you that SOME people don't grasp how games are put together, but there's no sense in trying to control what people talk about for that reason.

    In short, you could have found a less abrasive way to make your point - but whatever floats your boat. I get it, you have an ego - and you need to be right about everything you say. That's cool.
  • ananitananit Member RarePosts: 293
    lineage 2 pre-interlude with blade and soul combat and engine.
  • Talon_DeathravenTalon_Deathraven Member UncommonPosts: 46
    ESO graphics + WoW 
  • JermzyJermzy Member UncommonPosts: 211
    DAoC pvp + EQ pve.
    Yep, old man here.
    Haroo!
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,610
    EQ1 and DAoC
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    I am not sure combining 2 older games really is the right way to go, picking interesting features from older games is of course always tempting and have some potential but often are mechanics something well thought made to fit a specific game and adding it to something different can backfire.

    For example, taking Wow and adding SWGs crafting would make a worse game then either ones were, the mechanics are custom made for SWG where it works excellent but Wows mechanics is all about looting mobs with a little crafting as a sidething (probably because EQ had it). It wouldn't work even if it might sound fun at first thought.

    I think it would be better to think what your games purpose should be and what setting you plan to use. Then you figure out what mechanics would make that world work best, not looking on how anyone else have done yet. Once you know the basics on the best working mechanics you can look and see how others have solved similar problems and learn from them.

    Say that you want to make a game of thrones MMO. The first thing you need to figure out what goals the players should have, you do want them to have similar goals to the heroes in the books and show So you do want players to gain knowledge, intrigue, try to defend certain things and similar things.
    It is not very much about gaining cool gear, certainly not like in Wow and wealth is mainly a way to gain power.

    You also need to decide if you are going to focus the game on PvP or PvE.

    After that you need to figure out the base mechanics. How will characters gain power as they play? They certainly do gain power in the IP, both physical power and political power. Having a 100 levels seems to be a bit off though, maybe you want to use fewer levels or let people gain abilities for completing new stuff (using achivements instead of XP each one you complete gives you a new skill or increase in attributes. You also need to decide if you want classes or something else. Personally do I think a nationality and a bloodline put together would be closest to the original IP, mixing both those to gain you a multifacet class.

    The combat system doesn't really feel like trinity, but neither is it really much about large combat formations so you need something that is somewhat actionbased but still allows players to work together in combat. A little like GW2 but with more group dynamics maybe...

    And then you add how the crafting should be (GOT is not that crafting focused but then gear doesn't seem to be a huge factor in the IP). You can probably have some basic crafting. As for PvE content I think a mix between regular quests and DEs would probably feel best. You need a trading system and so on.

    Once you have all you want it is time to look exactly how the mechanics should work down to detail and here you can look if someone else already created a perfect working mechanics that would fit in your game, if you want to modify an existing feature to better fit or if you want to make something new from scratch. It takes less work to get an existing feature to work but if it doesn't fit the IP you are doing the wrong thing.

    Just mixing features you like from different game and slapping a IP on it is not the right thing to do, we seen that missfire many times and you loose many fans of the IP that way, and those fans should really be your core players.

    You could instead first take mechanics and then create a world from scratch to fit just right instead as a second method, creating lore to perfectly fit the game you want to do instead. That works excellent as well.

    If you for an instance want to create a raiding game with gear focus IPs like GoT would not really work, there are other IPs in which the heroes spend a lot of time finding artifacts that would work better, like Wheel of times. Your IP and mechanics must feel like they are perfect for eachother or you will fail. Both WAR and STO did a rather poor job making the core fans of the IP playing them because they used the wrong mechanics and neither game did very well.
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    edited April 2016
    Loke666 said:
    I am not sure combining 2 older games really is the right way to go, picking interesting features from older games is of course always tempting and have some potential but often are mechanics something well thought made to fit a specific game and adding it to something different can backfire.

    For example, taking Wow and adding SWGs crafting would make a worse game then either ones were, the mechanics are custom made for SWG where it works excellent but Wows mechanics is all about looting mobs with a little crafting as a sidething (probably because EQ had it). It wouldn't work even if it might sound fun at first thought.

    I think it would be better to think what your games purpose should be and what setting you plan to use. Then you figure out what mechanics would make that world work best, not looking on how anyone else have done yet. Once you know the basics on the best working mechanics you can look and see how others have solved similar problems and learn from them.

    Say that you want to make a game of thrones MMO. The first thing you need to figure out what goals the players should have, you do want them to have similar goals to the heroes in the books and show So you do want players to gain knowledge, intrigue, try to defend certain things and similar things.
    It is not very much about gaining cool gear, certainly not like in Wow and wealth is mainly a way to gain power.

    You also need to decide if you are going to focus the game on PvP or PvE.

    After that you need to figure out the base mechanics. How will characters gain power as they play? They certainly do gain power in the IP, both physical power and political power. Having a 100 levels seems to be a bit off though, maybe you want to use fewer levels or let people gain abilities for completing new stuff (using achivements instead of XP each one you complete gives you a new skill or increase in attributes. You also need to decide if you want classes or something else. Personally do I think a nationality and a bloodline put together would be closest to the original IP, mixing both those to gain you a multifacet class.

    The combat system doesn't really feel like trinity, but neither is it really much about large combat formations so you need something that is somewhat actionbased but still allows players to work together in combat. A little like GW2 but with more group dynamics maybe...

    And then you add how the crafting should be (GOT is not that crafting focused but then gear doesn't seem to be a huge factor in the IP). You can probably have some basic crafting. As for PvE content I think a mix between regular quests and DEs would probably feel best. You need a trading system and so on.

    Once you have all you want it is time to look exactly how the mechanics should work down to detail and here you can look if someone else already created a perfect working mechanics that would fit in your game, if you want to modify an existing feature to better fit or if you want to make something new from scratch. It takes less work to get an existing feature to work but if it doesn't fit the IP you are doing the wrong thing.

    Just mixing features you like from different game and slapping a IP on it is not the right thing to do, we seen that missfire many times and you loose many fans of the IP that way, and those fans should really be your core players.

    You could instead first take mechanics and then create a world from scratch to fit just right instead as a second method, creating lore to perfectly fit the game you want to do instead. That works excellent as well.

    If you for an instance want to create a raiding game with gear focus IPs like GoT would not really work, there are other IPs in which the heroes spend a lot of time finding artifacts that would work better, like Wheel of times. Your IP and mechanics must feel like they are perfect for eachother or you will fail. Both WAR and STO did a rather poor job making the core fans of the IP playing them because they used the wrong mechanics and neither game did very well.
    I appreciate the in-depth post, but I think you're overthinking things.

    Most games in the world are inspired by what came before - and I'm pretty confident that many of them started out as ideas of how to combine cool aspects of other games.

    What you're suggesting sounds like you want people to design an entire game in their heads before talking about cool ideas.

    While that would, indeed, be very interesting and impressive - I think it's a bit much to ask.

    I honestly think it's fully possible to muse over great parts of great games that might combine into a new great game.

    I think we're all able to "fill in the blanks".

    For instance, I would absolutely love SWG crafting in WoW - but I also understand that such a suggestion isn't a literal suggestion that changes nothing except crafting. Obviously, the world would have to be prepared for player housing and they'd have to change loot balance around a lot.

    So, maybe don't think of it as literally combining set-in-stone features - but more like combining concepts of established games in whatever way you see fit.
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