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Blizzard Responds to the Legacy Server Issue

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  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,334
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    I understand why they must protect their brand, failure to do so once opens them up to never being able to, so pirate servers have to go.

    I do not agree with the "huge" operational challenges though. Mythic ran 3 separate rule sets back in the day, on a shoestring budget.

    Korean gaming companies run separate code bases by region, we dont get whatever Korea got last year, its localized, customized and sometimes quite different yet somehow they manage to patch an maintain all of them

    Daybreak runs progression servers of EQ, how is possible they can, but Blizz cant?

    Just not buying that excuse since real world examples exist to prove it false.
    I think the operation challenges aren't overstated at all.

    The 3 rulesets for Mythic are different from completely different code bases. If the engine supports different rule configurations, but is still the same engine, then that is a completely different scenario.

    Korean game companies don't run entirely different code bases. They run different rule sets with different data files. The engines are still fundamentally the same. It also takes most of them a huge amount of time to make the translation and update the western client and servers.

    Daybreak runs progression servers of EQ and EQ2 based on their current engine, not the original code bases. That's been a big complaint from legacy fans, that the game isn't the same as the original. There is a big complaint thread on the EQ2 forums right now because Necros are super OP in the latest EoF expansion when they were mediocre "back then". Back then it was rangers who were OP and this is what the playerbase expected. As a result the EQ2 TLE player faction is unhappy with DBG over this and their apparent inability to resolve the issue.

    None of these legacy implementations have been easy and smooth. It's a monumental, and I guess expensive, task to translate from the East to the West which is why we lost our Lineage 1 servers. Either that or NCSoft are bigger bastards than Blizz.

    That's just a portion of the technical hurdles, not to mention the unified patcher, community division, resource allocation, monetization, and I'm sure there are other things I'm forgetting.
    Exactly a lot of naive suppositions that Blizzard is just plain greedy and mean not to do it.  They probably saying they are considering it but in reality they will not give this much thought seeing as they have bigger fish to fry in expansions and other games.

  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,174
    Kyleran said:
    I understand why they must protect their brand, failure to do so once opens them up to never being able to, so pirate servers have to go.

    I do not agree with the "huge" operational challenges though. Mythic ran 3 separate rule sets back in the day, on a shoestring budget.

    Korean gaming companies run separate code bases by region, we dont get whatever Korea got last year, its localized, customized and sometimes quite different yet somehow they manage to patch an maintain all of them

    Daybreak runs progression servers of EQ, how is possible they can, but Blizz cant?

    Just not buying that excuse since real world examples exist to prove it false. They should at least be up front and acknowledge they won't pursue any avenue that isn't acceptably profitable, that one I'll believe.
    Classic WoW is a completely different game from current WoW. It would essentially be another game, an older, uglier and buggier game.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,211
    Aori said:
    Kyleran said:
    I understand why they must protect their brand, failure to do so once opens them up to never being able to, so pirate servers have to go.

    I do not agree with the "huge" operational challenges though. Mythic ran 3 separate rule sets back in the day, on a shoestring budget.

    Korean gaming companies run separate code bases by region, we dont get whatever Korea got last year, its localized, customized and sometimes quite different yet somehow they manage to patch an maintain all of them

    Daybreak runs progression servers of EQ, how is possible they can, but Blizz cant?

    Just not buying that excuse since real world examples exist to prove it false. They should at least be up front and acknowledge they won't pursue any avenue that isn't acceptably profitable, that one I'll believe.
    Classic WoW is a completely different game from current WoW. It would essentially be another game, an older, uglier and buggier game.
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • SoraksisSoraksis Member UncommonPosts: 294
    The solution is easy to allow a private server to operate while protecting the intellectual property of Blizzard would be to charge a small franchise license fee.  Now the property still belongs to Blizzard and the IP is being properly paid for by way of lease.

     
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    So basically all the priests are mad cuz they no longer have an overpowered 7 second fear and want rollback servers.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,867
    Soraksis said:
    The solution is easy to allow a private server to operate while protecting the intellectual property of Blizzard would be to charge a small franchise license fee.  Now the property still belongs to Blizzard and the IP is being properly paid for by way of lease. 
    erm...how is licence fee supposed to protect the IP?!
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    Soraksis said:
    The solution is easy to allow a private server to operate while protecting the intellectual property of Blizzard would be to charge a small franchise license fee.  Now the property still belongs to Blizzard and the IP is being properly paid for by way of lease.

     
    Makes sense to me.  I actually suggested as much last week during one of the many discussions on Blizzard's official forum ... and then the thread was deleted, lol.
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    Gdemami said:
    Soraksis said:
    The solution is easy to allow a private server to operate while protecting the intellectual property of Blizzard would be to charge a small franchise license fee.  Now the property still belongs to Blizzard and the IP is being properly paid for by way of lease. 
    erm...how is licence fee supposed to protect the IP?!
    This can be done with a contract.  Those no doubt about that.
  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd Member UncommonPosts: 1,668
    Gdemami said:
    Soraksis said:
    The solution is easy to allow a private server to operate while protecting the intellectual property of Blizzard would be to charge a small franchise license fee.  Now the property still belongs to Blizzard and the IP is being properly paid for by way of lease. 
    erm...how is licence fee supposed to protect the IP?!
      I guess it's a comparison to what a franchise does in certain cases. Like restaurants, etc. can let an individual run/operate it as long as they adhere to the guidelines set by the company.
      Not sure if that's what was meant, just what I understood. 
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,867
    edited April 2016
    SedrynTyros said:
    This can be done with a contract.  Those no doubt about that.
    Contracts bear 0 protective power, they can only help to mitigate some damage.

    To quote the letter:
    "And while we’ve looked into the possibility – there is not a clear legal path to protect Blizzard’s IP and grant an operating license to a pirate server."
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    Gdemami said:
    SedrynTyros said:
    This can be done with a contract.  Those no doubt about that.
    Contracts bear 0 protective power, they can only help to mitigate some damage.

    To quote the letter:
    "And while we’ve looked into the possibility – there is not a clear legal path to protect Blizzard’s IP and grant an operating license to a pirate server."
    Yeah, I know what they said, but it can be done.

    https://www.project1999.com/

    It's only a pirate server because it's not licensed, lol.  This is not some unusual circumstance here.  Companies license out their IP to other companies all the time.  Dungeons and Dragons ring a bell?
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,920
    Sounds like everyone has their own agenda to push and private servers wasn't one of them. I think the easiest thing to do would be to just hire them and make it an extension of WoW putting them in charge of the classic server. But then a larger business would start holding them accountable to do more and make it profitable. Nice to see good communication, as a lot of other MMO's would have just responded with silence.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 7,855
    Sephiroso said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    SlyLoK said:
    lordskwid said:
    I don't think a pristine server would solve any of the hullabaloo. 

    I want to play Vanilla WoW. I don't want to play Vanilla WoW content with Warlords of Draenor mechanics, or even Legion Mechanics. I want the old talent trees, and the old content, and I want the LFG/R tools as far away from the game as possible.

    Making a pristine server seems like spit shining a pile of shit, that is not what people have asked for. 
    The only thing I would want changed would be the Paladin mechanics back then. 
    Paladins had so much more depth with the talent trees over the crap system they use now. Paladins are now a shell of a class to what they used to be. 
    No they did not. No matter what class you played 99% of players used 99% the same talent build with 3~ points that were left up to you where to pick for minor things like movement speed boost or something little. And even most players used those same 3 points in the same talents.

    Clearly you didn't play vanilla.
    I was always the guy that played odd specs. I was there from launch and I stand by what I say. I loved my vanilla Pally way more than what we have now. Just because most people didnt know how to make their own specs does not mean everyone played the cookie cutter.  



  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    kitarad said:
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
     
    Exactly a lot of naive suppositions that Blizzard is just plain greedy and mean not to do it.  They probably saying they are considering it but in reality they will not give this much thought seeing as they have bigger fish to fry in expansions and other games.
    Well you seem to be making the case that they are not greedy and mean but are instead just heartless and pursuing new money. 
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • SeirothSeiroth Member UncommonPosts: 29
    Please make a pristine server... but its also important that the current end game on said pristine server resembles vanilla so even on live, as they release the expansions down the road they need to look at some of the other things that made classic so great and go back to that. For one, they've ruined professions. Second, make the general world content at least somewhat challenging so any class can't just mash the keyboard and kill a dozen mobs at the same time. I loved classic when a single add could kill me. I had to at least be aware and pay attention. I liked grouping to do general level progression quests. It's become too boring with every class having way too many survival skills/spells. Sounds like the next expansion is handling a lot of these things so if that was combined with this "Pristine server" idea I'd totally be in. It would be even better than vanilla. Breathing new life into the game while bringing back the sense of community, challenge and fun from vanilla is a sure win in my eyes.
  • VyntVynt Member UncommonPosts: 754
    If they were to make a vanilla server, it wouldn't be true vanilla, but vanilla with a twist. They would incorporate a lot of the current stuff with the old most likely. Kind of like what EQ does.

    The reason they're not doing it, is because it is not worthwhile for them to do it yet. Once they lose a couple million more subs, then they will probably consider it to bring back customers. It has nothing to do with greed. It is just not profitable enough for the effort yet.
  • NomadMorlockNomadMorlock Member UncommonPosts: 814
    Seiroth said:
    Please make a pristine server... but its also important that the current end game on said pristine server resembles vanilla so even on live, as they release the expansions down the road they need to look at some of the other things that made classic so great and go back to that. For one, they've ruined professions. Second, make the general world content at least somewhat challenging so any class can't just mash the keyboard and kill a dozen mobs at the same time. I loved classic when a single add could kill me. I had to at least be aware and pay attention. I liked grouping to do general level progression quests. It's become too boring with every class having way too many survival skills/spells. Sounds like the next expansion is handling a lot of these things so if that was combined with this "Pristine server" idea I'd totally be in. It would be even better than vanilla. Breathing new life into the game while bringing back the sense of community, challenge and fun from vanilla is a sure win in my eyes.
    I would return for a pristine server.  No fast leveling, no heirloom gear, no transfers.  Would be awesome!
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656
    edited April 2016
    I am sure it has been mentioned several times in here already, but J. Allen Brack is the same smug ass that told players that vanilla servers were never even considered at Blizzcon 2013.

    Q: "Have you ever thought about adding servers for previous expansions as they were then?"

    A: "No. And by the way, you don't want to do that either.  You think you do, but you don't."

    Now here he is claiming that they have talked about it often for years.  Not sure why he thinks nobody will remember him literally saying that they never thought about it just a few events earlier.

    Now he keeps getting hit with proof over and over that yes, this is in fact what a large number of players want.  There are large numbers of players that think the changes made to WoW made the game worse, that the changes he was a part of have been a detriment to the game.
    Post edited by Baitness on
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Kyleran said:
    I understand why they must protect their brand, failure to do so once opens them up to never being able to, so pirate servers have to go.

    I do not agree with the "huge" operational challenges though. Mythic ran 3 separate rule sets back in the day, on a shoestring budget.

    Korean gaming companies run separate code bases by region, we dont get whatever Korea got last year, its localized, customized and sometimes quite different yet somehow they manage to patch an maintain all of them

    Daybreak runs progression servers of EQ, how is possible they can, but Blizz cant?

    Just not buying that excuse since real world examples exist to prove it false. They should at least be up front and acknowledge they won't pursue any avenue that isn't acceptably profitable, that one I'll believe.

    Is that based on your specific knowledge of their code base?  Or you just guessing?

    Oh, Daybreak did it therefore all other developers MUST do it the same way.


    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Sounds like everyone has their own agenda to push and private servers wasn't one of them. I think the easiest thing to do would be to just hire them and make it an extension of WoW putting them in charge of the classic server. But then a larger business would start holding them accountable to do more and make it profitable. Nice to see good communication, as a lot of other MMO's would have just responded with silence.
    True.



    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,870
    People can compare what other companies are doing versus what Blizzard could do but a main thing is missing in those comparisons....nothing else in the MMORPG genre is as successful as WoW so they dont need to lol. People will complain even if Blizzard does make the 'vanilla' servers, since you'll have to pay for that and I'm pretty sure people didn't have to pay for the private servers?
  • RasiemRasiem Member UncommonPosts: 317
    Kilrain said:
    DKLond said:
    Nostalgia is a powerful force when combined with no subscription.
    People keep saying stuff like this, rose colored glasses and such. But just look at the success behind EQs classic servers (mostly classic). I mean, they're the only ones smart enough to cash in on the idea, and yes it requires a subscription.

    There are/were more than one WoW private servers, but which ones were more popular? Classic. Not because they were free.
      The thing is they know players arent happy with the current state of WoW and most will go to play the Vanilla server. There not wanting to take the chance of sub drops I bet. And lets be honest nobody can say with a straight face that vanilla wasnt better then this lobbied turd WoW turned in to. 
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,867
    SedrynTyros said:
    Yeah, I know what they said, but it can be done.

    https://www.project1999.com/

    It's only a pirate server because it's not licensed, lol.  This is not some unusual circumstance here.  Companies license out their IP to other companies all the time.  Dungeons and Dragons ring a bell?
    How that even remotely comparable...?
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    Gdemami said:
    SedrynTyros said:
    Yeah, I know what they said, but it can be done.

    https://www.project1999.com/

    It's only a pirate server because it's not licensed, lol.  This is not some unusual circumstance here.  Companies license out their IP to other companies all the time.  Dungeons and Dragons ring a bell?
    How that even remotely comparable...?
    Well .... because they're both successful MMOs but in one case the company gave the fan project their blessing?

    https://www.everquest.com/news/project-1999-daybreak

    http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191146

    If Blizzard can't find "a clear legal path to protect Blizzard’s IP" perhaps they should talk to Daybreak games.  They seem of have cracked the code on that one!
  • BlazeyerBlazeyer Member UncommonPosts: 562
    No one asked for half assed regular servers. They want Legacy servers. This is a cop out. I hope people don't drop this issue.
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