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minimum viable product???

VorpalChicken28VorpalChicken28 Member UncommonPosts: 348
in Star Citizen
In the new vid Mr Roberts ( )released he says:

"And, we’ll have what we determine is a minimum viable product feature list for what you would call Star Citizen the commercial release which is basically when you say, “Okay, we’ve gotten to this point and we’ve still got plans to add a lot more cool stuff and more content and more functionality and more features…”

I'm somewhat concerned (more so now then ever before) that they've wasted $112 Million dollars.

What on earth is going on?
“Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” 
― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
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Comments

  • Papapeta33Papapeta33 Member UncommonPosts: 11
    The phrase "minimum viable product"  jumped right out to me as well.  This is the same buzz phrase that the jabroni managing the late Pathfinder Online used to justify pushing an early alpha build onto backers/consumers.  We know how that ended.

    What I wouldn't give to see an accounting of how their $100+ million has been spent, to date...
  • RPGMASTERGAMERRPGMASTERGAMER Member UncommonPosts: 516
    im wondering if this will be biggest scam ever

    will probably run out of pop corn before the end of this

    btw : im pixel clean and never pay anything for this game
  • adamlotus75adamlotus75 Member UncommonPosts: 387
    The smallest number of features that their lawyers agree must be implemented - related to commitments made.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    adamlotus75 said:
    The smallest number of features that their lawyers agree must be implemented - related to commitments made.

    I honestly think the lawyers would laugh at Chris, they'd do their best because they wanna be paid but they are gonna be fighting an uphill battle. What they will probably do is put something extremely basic in the game or put a menu you can access for a feature but it doesn't work right and say "See, its in game but we never said it would work right away!"
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,297
    In my experience that is a VERY common term in project management ... in ANY field, not just video games.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product

    And there is no list yet of what features will come at launch and what features will come a bit later. Chris Roberts mentioned that some of the later stretch goals will be added after launch. That is no surprise. It has been announced earlier that late stretch goals  like the big science ship "Endeavor" or the big "Starliner" passenger ship will not be there on launch day.  


    Have fun
  • goobsnewsgoobsnews Member UncommonPosts: 220
    the game will never come out with more than 30% of the features promised (if that) that people have backed, that's the sad reality. I wouldn't be surprised if they delayed the PU indefinitely and focused all their efforts into the star citizen movie (game).
    http://www.justagamemode.com/
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,297
    edited April 2016
    goobsnews said:
    the game will never come out with more than 30% of the features promised (if that) that people have backed, that's the sad reality. I wouldn't be surprised if they delayed the PU indefinitely and focused all their efforts into the star citizen movie (game).
    Interesting.

    Because we already HAVE those 30%ish.

    Fan made stretch goal status update list:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e9rQr2_iR0XPrvYrCNoFk4nNq_5VrrJFXf2G02MmVnU/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=1998968794

    Fan made ship progress chart:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TZgzbirTbLMj9oLJlMKYpefDo4cL430UQfmhy2HyUJU/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=2144418183



    Have fun


  • forcelimaforcelima Member UncommonPosts: 232
    Sounds like a minimally viable fun time !
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    Erillion said:
    goobsnews said:
    the game will never come out with more than 30% of the features promised (if that) that people have backed, that's the sad reality. I wouldn't be surprised if they delayed the PU indefinitely and focused all their efforts into the star citizen movie (game).
    Interesting.

    Because we already HAVE those 30%ish.

    Fan made stretch goal status update list:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e9rQr2_iR0XPrvYrCNoFk4nNq_5VrrJFXf2G02MmVnU/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=1998968794

    Fan made ship progress chart:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TZgzbirTbLMj9oLJlMKYpefDo4cL430UQfmhy2HyUJU/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=2144418183



    Have fun


    yeah but that pesky persistent universe thing......
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,297
    forcelima said:
    Sounds like a minimally viable fun time !
    Yep.

    And now imagine how much more fun it will be with another 1.5ish years of development time added (which is my personal estimate of time until launch day of PU).


    Have fun
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,297
    rodarin said:
    yeah but that pesky persistent universe thing......
    Ahh, you mean the persistence thingie that will start with the next Alpha Update ;-)  ?


    http://www.redacted.tv/star-citizen-2-4-alpha-expectations-features/

    "...heralds the change from a lot of temporary place holders and website stuff. Star Citizen will now communicate directly with a persistent database that sits on the cloud.

    Changes to ship loadouts rather than being saved as just a local file will now persist on your account."



    Have fun


  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Erillion said:
    forcelima said:
    Sounds like a minimally viable fun time !
    Yep.

    And now imagine how much more fun it will be with another 1.5ish years of development time added (which is my personal estimate of time until launch day of PU).


    Have fun
    So you're gonna keep paying into it a couple more years, huh...
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,297
    Adjuvant1 said:
    So you're gonna keep paying into it a couple more years, huh...
    One ship. A Constellation.

    One account.

    For years now.

    But you already knew that ;-)


    Have fun
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,405
    Papapeta33 said:
    The phrase "minimum viable product"  jumped right out to me as well.  This is the same buzz phrase that the jabroni managing the late Pathfinder Online used to justify pushing an early alpha build onto backers/consumers.  We know how that ended.

    What I wouldn't give to see an accounting of how their $100+ million has been spent, to date...
    I was in the PFO alpha and while your indeed right..it was quite obvious from the get go PFO was going to fail and some of us in their forums tried to tell them so alas Mr Dancey had ears only for his fanclub but I digress.....you have to admit what SC has is more functional and looks 100 times better than what PFO had going on.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Erillion said:
    Adjuvant1 said:
    So you're gonna keep paying into it a couple more years, huh...
    One ship. A Constellation.

    One account.

    For years now.

    But you already knew that ;-)


    Have fun
    ...and the voluntary monthly subscription to the game development of Star Citizen?
  • BrorimBrorim Member UncommonPosts: 91
    edited April 2016
    Erillion said:
    In my experience that is a VERY common term in project management ... in ANY field, not just video games.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product

    And there is no list yet of what features will come at launch and what features will come a bit later. Chris Roberts mentioned that some of the later stretch goals will be added after launch. That is no surprise. It has been announced earlier that late stretch goals  like the big science ship "Endeavor" or the big "Starliner" passenger ship will not be there on launch day.  


    Have fun
    Well according to the link you send it is clearly in violation of the kickstarter goals system..

    The company has, by their own writing, agreed to meet goals and then stretch goals, that will make the game SC. By using that term he is in effect breaking the KS campaign and the advertising for added features .. Minimum viable project is not what you pay for with SC..

    They have clearly and without question taken on more than they can handle .. And tbh Erillion your tedious pointless defence of them and the lack of a feasible game seems more and more pointless..

    Look at games like no mans sky developed on a tiny budget and what that is capable off..

    SC is not such a game .. period ..
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,405
    edited April 2016
    Brorim said:
    Erillion said:
    In my experience that is a VERY common term in project management ... in ANY field, not just video games.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product

    And there is no list yet of what features will come at launch and what features will come a bit later. Chris Roberts mentioned that some of the later stretch goals will be added after launch. That is no surprise. It has been announced earlier that late stretch goals  like the big science ship "Endeavor" or the big "Starliner" passenger ship will not be there on launch day.  


    Have fun
    Well according to the link you send it is clearly in violation of the kickstarter goals system..

    The company has, by their own writing, agreed to meet goals and then stretch goals, that will make the game SC. By using that term he is in effect breaking the KS campaign and the advertising for added features .. Minimum viable project is not what you pay for with SC..

    They have clearly and without question taken on more than they can handle .. And tbh Erillion your tedious pointless defence of them and the lack of a feasible game seems more and more pointless..

    Look at games like no mans sky developed on a tiny budget and what that is capable off..

    SC is not such a game .. period ..
    Actually I am pretty sure most of the stretch goals came after KS ended.  I do think they only raised something like "34,397 backers pledged $2,134,374 to help bring this project to life. " via KS all the rest was via their own forum after KS ended and that's where most of the extra goals came from.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • huntersamhuntersam Member UncommonPosts: 210
    what will you lot argue about when this comes out one way or another
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,297
    huntersam said:
    what will you lot argue about when this comes out one way or another
    The next game ;-)

    As always.


    Have fun
  • BrorimBrorim Member UncommonPosts: 91
    edited April 2016
    Asm0deus said:
    Actually I am pretty sure most of the stretch goals came after KS ended.  I do think they only raised something like 2.5mil or 3mil in all via KS all the rest was via their own forum after KS ended and that's where most of the extra goals came from.
    Even then .. Promising a load of features, be it a kickstarter or not, and then deliver a product so bad is legal grounds for expected results vs. delivered product ..

    Some people with money enough and the urge to do it could do a class action ..
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,297
    Adjuvant1 said:
    ...and the voluntary monthly subscription to the game development of Star Citizen?
    Is entirely voluntary and personally i feel compensated enough with the "Jump Point" magazine and its stories that i get with the subscription. Its not unlike other magazine subscriptions i have like 300+issues of "White Dwarf" from Games Workshop in my library ....


    Have fun
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    edited April 2016
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    yeah but that pesky persistent universe thing......
    Ahh, you mean the persistence thingie that will start with the next Alpha Update ;-)  ?


    http://www.redacted.tv/star-citizen-2-4-alpha-expectations-features/

    "...heralds the change from a lot of temporary place holders and website stuff. Star Citizen will now communicate directly with a persistent database that sits on the cloud.

    Changes to ship loadouts rather than being saved as just a local file will now persist on your account."



    Have fun


    I dont make internet bets but I would bet anything and lay any odds that whatever date they CLAIM to have a PU up (even for testing) will be delayed. Betting against Chris Roberts making any claimed deadline is a sure thing.

    You also notice a very important word there...EXPECTATIONS. This whole thread is about expectations that are not coming some not at all and many not in the foreseeable future.

    If they release and stabilize a 64 bit persistent universe then they might be on the right track. But I suspect they might TRY to do it, it crashes and burns they shelf the persistent universe (or worse implement a 32 bit one) and focus on SQ 42. Hoping to buy more time and make more money to tackle the one thing that people have said couldnt be done, and still hasnt happened.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,297
    Brorim said:
    Well according to the link you send it is clearly in violation of the kickstarter goals system..
    Every stretch goal after 6 million had nothing to do with Kickstarter. Thats about 80 %ish of the Stretch Goals.


    Have fun
  • BrorimBrorim Member UncommonPosts: 91
    Erillion said:
    Brorim said:
    Well according to the link you send it is clearly in violation of the kickstarter goals system..
    Every stretch goal after 6 million had nothing to do with Kickstarter. Thats about 80 %ish of the Stretch Goals.


    Have fun
    "Minimum viable project"  does not refer to kickstarter campaigns alone but only use them for reference ..

    MVP is still the released project, kickstarter or not ..
  • BrorimBrorim Member UncommonPosts: 91
    First line in the wiki..

    "the minimum viable product (MVP) is a product which has just enough features to gather validated learning about the product and its continued development"

    This is what you want ??
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